Whether lots of the southern europeans like it or not this band shows/has shown such an enormous transformation of style/s since 1972 when they approached to the italian prog.rock scene,check this out and tell me what you think 

http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_BAND.asp?band_id=289 - http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_BAN D.asp?band_id=289

I think it's rubbish and I don't like it.

Well - you asked

Certif1ed wrote: I think it's rubbish and I don't like it.

Compared to?

I think of PFM as precursors of not only well crafted symphonic prog rock, but of elegant and determinat musical instrumentation. Some of their releases may be disregarded if you wish, but the early works and years of the band where a definitive point of departure for most of the bands to come. PFM is an underrated band, like most of what it's done surrounding the Italian Symphonic Prog (e.g. Museo Rosenbach, Quella Vecchia Locanda, Consorzio Acqua Potabile, etc) where the only remains of proper recognition set off in names like BANCO DEL MUTUO SOCCORSO and Le ORME.

Peace!

 True true what you're sayin'man,if you then add an album of the start of the 80s from P.F.M.like this one we'll possibly think that prog.sympho.rock was up for a crisis period

http://www.progarchives.com/progressive_rock_discography_covers/289/ACF105B.jpg - http://www.progarchives.com/progressive_rock_discography_cov ers/289/ACF105B.jpg

PFM isn't my favorite italian prog band, but they're still pretty darn good. As far as importance goes, they're probably second only to Banco...and they give us a pretty wide range in their career, when a lot of my favorite italian bands could only stay together for an album or two.

progchain wrote: Simply the best band in the world! (or not?)

I agree, one of the best in early '70s. Since Passpartu, unfortunately, just a poor commercial band (specially, last two studio albums are terrible) 

Marcelo wrote: Since Passpartu, unfortunately, just a poor commercial band (specially, last two studio albums are terrible)

I agree Marcelo... maybe they turned commercial due the exigencies of modern life or... they just growing older  

I always liked PFM.. and I enjoyed the times they traveled with ELP.  I knew at the time that they were on Manticore along with the other band that sometimes backed up ELP, Stray Dog... but I definitely preferred their shows to Stray Dogs.  I use to pick on Franco and Franz... about their voices... That was my least favorite thing about them...

landberkdoten wrote: Certif1ed wrote: I think it's rubbish and I don't like it. Compared to? I think of PFM as precursors of not only well crafted symphonic prog rock, but of elegant and determinat musical instrumentation. Some of their releases may be disregarded if you wish, but the early works and years of the band where a definitive point of departure for most of the bands to come. PFM is an underrated band, like most of what it's done surrounding the Italian Symphonic Prog (e.g. Museo Rosenbach, Quella Vecchia Locanda, Consorzio Acqua Potabile, etc) where the only remains of proper recognition set off in names like BANCO DEL MUTUO SOCCORSO and Le ORME. Peace!

Heh! Sorry, Land - I guess you weren't following the Marillion thread in the "Currently Listening to" section.

Actually, if you read my post, I do not refer to PFM - and neither does the original question. I just felt the need to be a bit controversial to underline the point I was making in that other discussion.

For the record, I have yet to form an opinion on PFM, as I have only heard the 3 sample tracks. However, as an avid consumer of all things musical, I will get around to it.

Everyone:

The first three Italian albums "Storia Di Un Minuto", "Per Un Amico" and "L'Isola Di Niente" are superb in my opinion, and good examples of very melodious symphonic Progressive Rock.

Having said that, I also like some of their later stuff too, even if it is much less progressive and more pop music. I like the track Suonare Suonare (from the album of the same title) very much. But I judge albums based on whether I like the music, not on whether they are 'progressive' (no gibe intended).

From what I've heard--an excellent band. However, my personal knowledge of PFM is limited to a few random songs which is still enough, neverthelss, to make a conclusion about their superb musicmanship. Are there any other (free) resources on the net, which allow to get acquainted with this band closer? 

Certif1ed wrote: Heh! Sorry, Land - I guess you weren't following the Marillion thread in the "Currently Listening to" section. Actually, if you read my post, I do not refer to PFM - and neither does the original question. I just felt the need to be a bit controversial to underline the point I was making in that other discussion. For the record, I have yet to form an opinion on PFM, as I have only heard the 3 sample tracks. However, as an avid consumer of all things musical, I will get around to it.

Thank you very much! Not it seems clearer to me

Regarding the Marillion thread, think same parameters should be applied here in order to measure up to the guidelines you pointed out to Joren, and to all collaborators in general. Yes, there are Marillion fans on one hand and in the other, well, don't. That's a respectable point of view, and I second it; but I think most of the times when it comes to likes, deslikes and incendiary opinions like the ones I looked through in the Marillion thread, as you said Cert, are IRRELEVANT and they lack of prudence. Being a Collaborator in the site entitles us to feel free when it comes to writting and speaking our minds up, but it also comes with several features like responsability, observation and measure. Besides all these guidelines, I would say that the most important thing is to remain impartial and fair. We'll avoid personal confrontations (like the one I held months ago with another member an it definitely undermined my position here) and we'll keep our dignity intact.

Peace  

Land

Oh, and by the way, I'm a huge, devoted MARILLION fan!!! (preferably just the Fish era like I've mentioned before )

Regards!

I've got 'Chocolate Kings'.I rate it at about 3 stars

I agree Richardh Chocolate Kings doesn't deserve more, but this would be like qualifying Yes for 90125 or Genesis for ABACRAP.

Per un Amico and Storia di un Minuto are certainly masterpieces, along with Felona e Sorona (Le Orme) and Darwin (Banco del Mutuo Soccorso), are the best Italian prog' albums ever released, and probably the best non English albums in history.

Simply masterpieces with a classic and very own sound, until Pete Sifield started to change the lyrics and the sound to be more similar to ELP, specially because they signed with Mantricore Records.

Iván

Actually I agree that, well actually I'm not sure, how I feel about Pete Sinfield's english lyrics for PFM.  It was somewhat easier to enjoy them when the words were in English, just because I enjoy a good lyric. 

But I don't agree that he changed their sound to be more ELP like.  Photo of Ghosts (1973) was their first album on Manticore.. and it doesn't sound unlike Per Un Amico... I think maybe their move to England and their touring in the States might be more responsible for a change in their sound.  As I recall, they spent a lot of time partying in the beginning and listening to other bands... even hanging around ELP's time in the Cinema.  I think the change in environment was a big factor.

To me, the first noticeable change in their style I believe was on "The World Became the World" from 1974.  I didn't find it ELP sounding tho.. maybe more King Crimson...afterall I think Mel Collins played with them awhile also.  In 1974, they toured with Ten Years After... they're lucky they had a sound after that...

Threefates wrote:

To me, the first noticeable change in their style I believe was on "The World Became the World" from 1974.  I didn't find it ELP sounding tho.. maybe more King Crimson...

The World Became the World is the most terrible and disgusting album PFM could ever release, it's the English version of "La Isola di Niente" (Nobody's Island would be the correct translation), Pete Sinfield not only changed the name of the album for a title that makes no seense, but also changed the name of the tracks (Is My Face On Straight was the only title saved) for absurd ones with no relation with the originals like "Dolcissima Maria" (Very Sweat Maria), La Luna Nuova (The New Moon), La Isola di niente and La Via Luumiere (Lumiere Street).

Not happy with that, Sinfield butchered the beautiful lyrics creating a hybrid that makes no senses at all. That's why I believe ELP and their lyricist are partially responsible for the change in the style of PFM, they turned an original and unique Italian band in ELP and Crimson wannabes.

Remember that Isola di Niente was the first PFM album released in Italian after they joined Manticore Records, because Photos of Ghosts was a compilation of two Italian albums (Storia di un Minuto and Per un Amico) released by PFM before they joined Manticore. So there's some relation with the band being part of the ELP label and the change in the sound of the band.

Iván

Actually I have no problem understanding the title of the album.. I think its in relation to PFM coming from what they're world was...Italy... into the real world... the planet.  At the time, they also thought that changing their lyrics to English would bring them out in the world.. they wanted worldwide recognition and this is how they went about it.  As far as Sinfield butchering... I guess I've always admired Pete's sense of imagination and whimsy.. he really does have the heart of a wizard actually... and I've always been able to read between his lines.  So I didn't consider it butchering.. altho I don't understand why they just didn't create new songs.. instead of changing the words to ones already recorded.

However, that being said... even tho Isola di Niente was the first PFM album released in Italian after they joined Manticore Records, it was not released on Manticore and it was only released in Italy.  Photo of Ghosts.. on Manticore was released in the UK, France & Italy.  My copy actually came from the Manticore NY offices...

ivan_2068 wrote: The World Became the World is the most terrible and disgusting album PFM could ever release

I bet you didn't listen to Ulisse or Serendipity.

Threefates wrote:

I guess I've always admired Pete's sense of imagination and whimsy.. he really does have the heart of a wizard actually

I also believe Sinfield is a great lyricist, but he's BRITISH and has a different perspective of life and music than the Italians, he could translate the lyrics with his talent and a bit of effort, but he did the easy thing and created a new set of lyrics instead of doing research.

The music was created from an Italian perspective and the lyrics in Italian, that's why they fit into that atmosphere, this doesn't happen with the English lyrics. Why can't English speakers listen music in other languages if the rest of the world listens lyrics in English? Music and lyrics are two sides of the same coin, they only have sense if done together.

There's absolutely no relation with a song named La Luna Nuova (The New Moon) and the absurd title Four Holes in the Ground, it's simply ridiculous.

Great music has to stay in original language (IMHO). Imagine La Traviata or Tanheuser translated to English because Americans and British don't understand Italian and German, all the world will consider this butchering the operas, I believe prog' music deserves the same treatment.

Threefates wrote:

However, that being said... even tho Isola di Niente was the first PFM album released in Italian after they joined Manticore Records, it was not released on Manticore and it was only released in Italy.

That's my point, La Isola Di Niente was released in Italian because that's the way the authors believed it should be and Manticore refused to distribute an album in Italian, but they were practically forced to make a bad translation named The World Became the World.

I would accept that Sinfield would have TRANSLATED the lyrics, respecting the titles of album and songs, even when I believe it's not the right option, but to sacrifice lyrics and titles is simply illogical and IMHO butchering the original concept.

Iván

ivan_2068 wrote: That's my point, La Isola Di Niente was released in Italian because that's the way the authors believed it should be and Manticore refused to distribute an album in Italian, but they were practically forced to make a bad translation named The World Became the World. I would accept that Sinfield would have TRANSLATED the lyrics, respecting the titles of album and songs, even when I believe it's not the right option, but to sacrifice lyrics and titles is simply illogical and IMHO butchering the original concept. Iván

Actually thats not what I heard.. according to what I heard, that album was to be released earlier, but had some hold ups.. and it was their last contract album to Numero Uno records..  Manticore couldn't have released it as it was under contract to another record co.

I've also heard on many occasions.. and this from Franco as well, that when they tried to translate the songs into english, it simply did not sound as beautiful or flow with the music any longer.  This is why they used Pete's lyrics.

In regard to why the English or American's don't buy a lot of foreign language records..maybe cause it distracts from the appreciation.  I know I listen to some French Canadian bands every so often. .and as long as I don't care what the lyrics are... I'm fine.  But I find its distracting from the music to not know whats being said. 

I

Russiandude wrote: "Are there any other (free) resources on the net, which allow to get acquainted with this band closer?"

Checkout the excellent site: http://www.gaudela.net/pfm/ - www.gaudela.net/pfm/

and the official pfm site: http://www.pfmpfm.it - www.pfmpfm.it

for more details of the band.

Like the vast majority of folk in the UK who know of them, I first came across PFM with release of "Photo's of Ghosts" on ELP's Manticore label. The fact that it was one of the ealiest releases on that label was the sole reason I investigated it.

What I found was an interesting and exciting new sound, not unlike ELP, but at the same time unique. "The world become the world" followed, and I must admit I thought (and still think) it was an excellent album. To me,the end of side one reminded me a lot of the end of side one of "Court of the crimson king". The flute led "Just look away" mirrored "I talk to the wind", and the majestic title track had echoes of "Epitaph".

After that, for me the band quickly lost it (after a good live album, "Cook"), and by the time of "Jet lag" for me all was lost.

Not being familiar (then or now) with the Italian albums which apparently were the sources of "POG" and "TWBTW", I have no problems with Sinfield's lyrics or titles.

Credit it where it's due, if he and ELP had not "adopted" the band, they would not have enjoyed the international success they did.

 I think when heard Photos of ghosts and related to Appena un po',I thought was missing something but when listening to those over a period of time I kinda adjusted to their differences. Correct me if I got the two songs wrong as know there's one called River of Live which is absolutely fab and Per un amico just as well. But my fave of all days would have to be Impressioni di Settembre.

The track River of Life is indeed Appena Un Po' from the album Per Un Amico, but with Pete Sinfield's English lyrics instead and remixed by Sinfield. I like both versions and, given the Sinfield lyrics, I like the thunderclap that he added at the end of the track.

I notice that you called the track "River Of Live", flippedcanvas. The correct title of the track is "River Of Life" but, funnily enough, on the sleeve of my copy of the Photos Of Ghosts CD it is misspelt as "River Of Live" (and no, my CD is definitely not a pirate copy).