Intro to Prog. for 12 year old
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
Forum Description: Make or seek recommendations and discuss specific prog albums
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13318
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Topic: Intro to Prog. for 12 year old
Posted By: Wandering Days
Subject: Intro to Prog. for 12 year old
Date Posted: October 20 2005 at 12:55
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I'd like to introduce a 12 year old guy to the progressive genre and would like some suggestions on bands. The guy currently listens to Punk (Dead Kennedys/Clash/Ramones/etc) but is bright for his age and reads stuff like Tolkien/Hitckhiker's Guide/Dracula etc. He does not appreciate what he calls "emotional music", by which I think he means love ballads and overly sentimental stuff. Any suggestions? ------------- Past all mortals as we, here we can be. |
Replies:
Posted By: parrymason
Date Posted: October 20 2005 at 13:19
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There is a little chance of getting him into prog, but still, there IS a chance, you really should try... Pink Floyd would be a good start, I think. Nothing too hardcore for beginner, maybe some Yes or something that is Tolkien-inspired, if he likes that kind of stuff. Oh, yes, Van Der Graaf Generator too, they have a little connection with early punk, he would understand that, maybe. Classic Rock that leads to Pink Floyd, that leads to everything else in classic prog was the perfect starter for me  ------------- 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 20 2005 at 13:32
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get your friend into Gentle Giant now.
It's like teaching a foreign language, the easier the younger you
start. Have already started my three kids on Gentle Giant
and they love it. Try Octopus.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: viperjr98
Date Posted: October 20 2005 at 13:40
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If he currently listens to punk, then he's used to 2 to 3 minute songs. It might be difficult for prog to hold his attention in a genre where short songs are 6 minutes. That said, might I suggest trying something more modern with prog touches. If he's more into crunchy guitars and driving drum beat, try Coheed and Cambria. They're not here in the archives, but I believe they should be. They are definitely prog influenced, if not quite prog. Co & Ca is something kids can listen to and still be current and their albums have an ongoing storyline that would challenge any sci-fi fan. From there, it would be an easy step back to lead him into Rush, and from there, wherever his heart may roam, be it back to the present to the current prog-metal scene or back to the 70's to Yes/Genesis/et al. If he's more into spacey atmospheric music (less likely due to the punk influence, but still), he might get into Radiohead, another modern prog-influenced band. From there it would be an easy step back to Pink Floyd. Your call. It will be a tough sell, but I applaud you for trying. Ultimately, though, sometimes the harder you push the less someone else will take to it. They have to find their own thing. Hopefully it's prog, in one respect or another.
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Posted By: GFoyle
Date Posted: October 20 2005 at 13:53
How about something more modern  ?I would probably start from more mainstream prog metal (Tool, Dream Theater etc.), which is slightly more cool than the seventies stuff (very important) |
Posted By: GFoyle
Date Posted: October 20 2005 at 13:59
Great suggestion! Then probably move to The Mars Volta and Tool. |
viperjr98 wrote:Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 20 2005 at 13:59
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how about some Yes, if you can get past Anderson's vocals, their is
little not to like and is essential prog. Say the Yes Album or Fragile.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Chipiron
Date Posted: October 20 2005 at 14:04
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... Not a lot case. Although I don't like too much Prog Metal, maybe it would be a good start.... ------------- [IMG]http://www.belderrain.es/GIFs/tora.gif"> |
Posted By: Tonny Larz
Date Posted: October 20 2005 at 14:39
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I think that this kid (parden the tag) needs some real dark and complex music!! Gentle Giant for the complex angle...and maybe Tool for the dark angle ??! On the other hand.....if people like Dead kennedy´s and punk like stuff.... there are a world of difference in both the music and the approach...for progmusic are for the thinking man (woman) as....punk music are for the... ahem..well....anarchist...the political minded...you know,the one whom always seems to have the right answer!! Im gonna get a good trashing on this one arent i ?? Oh,,my god...how did i get into this mess of political message....all i wanted was to be a good prog messenger!! ------------- "Everybody wants to go to heaven,but nobody want to die" quote unknown. |
Posted By: Cygnus X-1
Date Posted: October 20 2005 at 14:52
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I'd go with Floyd or Dream Theater. popular options basically. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Bodins/?chartstyle=DarkSide5Big"> 
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Posted By: Lindsay Lohan
Date Posted: October 20 2005 at 15:08
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i got into tangerine dream at 7 and the residents at 10...try the strange stuff at first and see how he likes that ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Fjuffe/?chartstyle=sideRed - [IMG - http://imagegen.last.fm/sideRed/recenttracks/Fjuffe.gif - |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: October 20 2005 at 15:25
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If your friend likes the aggression and raw power of the Dead Kennedys (who I've always liked!), then maybe the link could be via Metallica's early material (pre 1991), which has aggression in bucketloads. It also has many long and relatively complex tracks. Metallica are a good link, because they were inspired by the more progressive metal bands (Budgie and Diamond Head), and punk bands (Fear, Crass, etc) - although obviously their more recent material leaves a lot to be desired. You could then introduce him to Dream Theater (who use Metallica riffs in some of their most acclaimed work), and onwards to Gentle Giant. "The Wreck" on "Acquiring The Taste" should be suitably heavy and dark, and any of GG's early albums are fantastic - but may require slightly more attention than the DKs.
If he likes the Clash, then Here and Now's albums are a more direct entry point - you can go from there to Gong in one fell swoop, and bingo - you're in the heart of Canterbury. I'd recommend "Give And Take". The other band who I think are a link between Prog and Punk are the Stranglers. Once you're hooked on those fat bass lines, rich keyboards and well thought out song constructions, there's no going back!
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Posted By: ShW1
Date Posted: October 20 2005 at 15:54
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That reminds me that once i gave to a clever 13 years old boy, ommadawn by Mike Oldfield, but he prefared Led Zeppelin instead... so i think Led Zeppelin is a good start, where he could jump to prog easily. and Metallica is good idea, and that kind of stuff you recommanded... I dont understand how someone could give Gentle Giant for his kids... what will they listen to after it? for me, Gentle Giant was the LAST important 70's to get through |
. Posted By: Wandering Days
Date Posted: October 20 2005 at 16:11
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Shwoa! This is great. Thanks for the responses! I haven't had time to look through them all yet. In a major hurry just now.
This kid is a non-conformist, and has respect for older music. I deffinite plus!
About Gentle Giant though. My own 12 year old has thankfully learned to tolerate my YES obsession without comment and has even gone to concerts with me, but isn't a fan. Imagine my surprise when she pronounce GG awesome! I had almost given up hope! ------------- Past all mortals as we, here we can be. |
Posted By: Wandering Days
Date Posted: October 21 2005 at 12:22
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Ack! I just found out this kid doesn’t like Pink Floyd! What a strange child Maybe I will have explore the old Metallica, Coheed and ------------- Past all mortals as we, here we can be. |
Posted By: flying teapot
Date Posted: October 21 2005 at 16:21
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Considering the attention span of 2-3 minutes, and the basic of Punk its hard to throw in the middel of Prog and hope he knows how to get to the shore and say he enjoyed it. We have to be prudent, he said already he does not like emotional stuff so Pink Floyd would be a mistake, as would be Yes. What style music followed Punk....Ah it was New Wave....they used Keyboards a lot, often were melodic, yet had an Punk edgy side.....Coul be that New Wave may be the transition point to some other prog. Gentle Giant may be too much, but I would suggest some progmetal...because its cool. I also would suggest only to play a cut here or there or excerpts just enough to grab his attention then go all over from one band to the next from one style to the other...no more than a cut from an album or band... If he asks for more of a cut, or band feed him more, then follow similar bands... GOOD LUCK |
Posted By: Runaway
Date Posted: October 21 2005 at 16:43
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Well, I began listening classic rock like at 8, and began listening prog at 10. But I've always listened to Gentle Giant, and had been my fav band since. I also liked rush a lot, but I think i lost some interest for them. And sorry if it was not understandable, Im too lazy right now to write correctly. |
Posted By: krauthead
Date Posted: October 21 2005 at 17:08
* Bo Hansson - Lord Of The Rings (Finest organ player in Sweden, very good debut... this will surelly fit since he's inte that Tolkien stuff). If he likes that album you can try his follow-up album to that one: Magician's Hat. Hmmm... since he's not into sentimetal stuff try 'Rush - 2112' good guitar stuff. A friend of my punk and he's deeply in love with Frank Zappa and his music especially the late sixties and early seventies albums. Hawkwind is also worth trying, space psychedelic progressive rock loaded with solid guitar work and some very minor punk elements in some tunes... maybe not but some songs have similar feel to it though... Judas Priest, their early albums have some great stuff... maybe he likes it... Rainbow - Rising (a kid in that age would atleast say that he finds it interresting)
Well, good luck mate! ------------- *Dancing madly backwards on a sea of air* - Captain Beyond |
Posted By: krauthead
Date Posted: October 21 2005 at 17:11
I knew that... if he liked that the first try that would be cool but scary He's totally normal though Pink Floyd is amazing. Don't give up on him, he must find something interresting in the whole genre else he's a hell of a punk with that negative attitude! ------------- *Dancing madly backwards on a sea of air* - Captain Beyond |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: October 21 2005 at 17:15
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I would start with bands like Rush, the harder side of Jethro Tull...then Dream Theater moving into Yes...then from then on...eternety
my God did that sound cheesy ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: annt
Date Posted: October 21 2005 at 17:19
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For a punk kid, definitely Cardiacs! The energy of punk with
progressive and complex, but not too long songs. If someone hasn't
heard them, go to http://www.cardiacs.com/downloads/ immediately. From there I'd go to Camel, Opeth and Gentle Giant just to show the diversity of the genre. I believe Opeth could go down pretty well among the youngest of listeners, because they are getting quite popular and still deliver quality music... and have the metal thing, which is always cool. |
Posted By: krauthead
Date Posted: October 21 2005 at 17:20
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German krautrock band: Can is a very good starter also, weird lyrics (also about drugs in some places so maybe you should have a listen first). Albums with Can worth trying with your kid: 1. Monster Movie 2. Tago Mago 3. Ege Bamyasi And skip all their other albums, I love some of them but this ain't for me Can is like a progressive punk band with psychedelic overtones... hard to describe right now because I've been awake "a couple of hours" If he (I guess it's a boy, else pardon me) don't like "Monster Movie" skip this band or maybe let him find his own path... because if he don't like that album you could prolly have a good chance getting him into Progressive Metal (but that genre I can't help you with since I simply hate it!) ------------- *Dancing madly backwards on a sea of air* - Captain Beyond |
Posted By: BleedingGum
Date Posted: October 21 2005 at 17:25
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He listens to punk recently? then get him Mars Volta as an introduction to progressive rock music.
------------- ...this is called....BleedingGum ... ! |
Posted By: Pseud0
Date Posted: October 21 2005 at 17:39
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lol at recommending stuff like gentle giant can and van der graaf to some 12 year old who doesn't listen to music coheed and cambria at the drive in porcupine tree's deadwing album ------------- 
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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: October 21 2005 at 17:43
DREAM THEATER- TRAIN OF THOUGHT 
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Posted By: Syntharachnid
Date Posted: October 21 2005 at 18:01
I got into Yes at 12, but previous to that I was a classical purist.  ------------- 
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Posted By: Wandering Days
Date Posted: October 21 2005 at 18:20
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Yeah, I wish my collection were bigger at the moment. I'm chipping away at a rather major 'wish list'. I'm mostly familiar with, and my taste runs to the symphonic and older electronic end of things, as well as some experimental and fusion. All of which would probably send this guy running for his the comfort of own CD's. That is why I'm here trying to pick your brains for ideas. I really do think that he would like this stuff, though, if presented right.
I'd like to put together a sampler. I know it took me quite a few listens to get the right ear for it. At first prog seemed overwhelming and busy. Now it can't have enough layers!
So if anybody has specific tracks they recommend that would be cool. ------------- Past all mortals as we, here we can be. |
Posted By: Aequitas
Date Posted: October 22 2005 at 09:45
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I'd go with The Mars Volta. It'd get him into lenghts aswell, and it's
very deep into the Trash side for progressive, hence punk, as it's trash. All
the noise found in these albums make an excellent transition from the
Puink scene to the progressive, and they have quite a bit of variation. I agree to the point that lenght might be a bigger issue, however. Perhaps he's into the punk scene for the Anarco-communistic text found in those bands, at which point I'm rather clueless myself on what to sugest. Perhaps some Floyd, The Wall, perhasp, as it deals with Social issues like Education and parental controll in the track Mother. But the sound isnt that much on the Punk side. Perhaps it's better to move in from The Nile Song? Dream Theater's Train of Tought is an excellent sugestion aswell, and I seccond it. It has some more trashy tracks. Perhaps he's into the Ragea influences of The Clash aswell. Again, I'm lost on sugestions here. It would be an idea to start on some of the more populair bands, tough, to make it easyer for the kid to actually check them out. I mean it's easyer to find things from these bands then the others, hence easyer to talk about aswell. He dosnt have to be into modern things, as the Punk style he listens to is basically rather anarchistic, hence opposed to just following the moden style, but rather a more individualistic figure, if you get me. Mr. Bungle? It's farly weird, but it might be just what he's looking after. But yea, The Mars Volta is basically my first sugestion, then Dream Theater, then Pink Floyd after he has heard Images and Words. It's a nice thing to start on perhaps Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence or Train of Tought, then work one's way back in the Dream Theater Albums, as they manage to expand the views of many who listen to them, or so I've heard. If perhaps The Mars Volta is a bit too weird, then perhaps it's good to start with At The Drive-In, which should be able to make The Mars Volta an easyer fruit to eat. Maby, that is. |
Posted By: Hemispheres
Date Posted: October 22 2005 at 10:28
------------- [IMG]http://www.wheresthatfrom.com/avatars/miguelsanchez.gif">[IMG]http://www.rockphiles.com/all_images/Act_Images/TheMothersOfInvention/mothers300.jpg"> |
Posted By: daghrastubfari
Date Posted: October 22 2005 at 10:30
This is a good one I think, especially the first record leans a lot toward ska-punk so maybe he'll like it. |
Posted By: stinkfist
Date Posted: October 22 2005 at 10:34
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since he likes punk- primus system of a down coheed and cambria and the residents are your best bets for getting him into prog ------------- how can this mean anything to me? when i really dont feel a thing at all |
Posted By: Don Quito
Date Posted: October 22 2005 at 10:35
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Someone posted out here that he would introduce this 12 year all kid to Rush first. I agree with that, but I'd go more for the early Rush era or maybe with Chronicles. Other suggestions could be Dream Theater or most of the prog metal bands since the sound is heavier. Personally, I believe is hard to introduce someone who's not old enough into prog music. Prog is so well structured and complex with so many time changes. Sometimes, I get people from all ages, and who are not into prog, giving me complaints about so many time changes in a song or the use of strange devices or sounds. I believe they prefer listening to the more traditional songs than those who develop more and more. And why is it that you want to introduce him to prog??? ------------- KEEP THE PROMISE YOU MADE |
Posted By: Don Quito
Date Posted: October 22 2005 at 10:37
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Do you consider System of A Down as Prog???? ------------- KEEP THE PROMISE YOU MADE |
Posted By: stinkfist
Date Posted: October 22 2005 at 10:38
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yes either RIO or Prog Related and it turned me into a prog fan so it might work for a 12-year-old ------------- how can this mean anything to me? when i really dont feel a thing at all |
Posted By: Wandering Days
Date Posted: October 22 2005 at 13:25
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I can see it in him, you know? This guys reading habits are way beyond his years (the kid's gone so far as to read the Silmarillion before 6th grade for instance), and he seems to have an adventurous attitude toward music. I guess I am remembering when I was young myself and didn't like the music on the radio. Wanted better lyrics and something more complicated that I could actually listen too. I don't think he is as much of a radical as his tastes suggest. His folks are a German and Russian who met in a punk club, but listen to U2. I did get a chance to listen to a bit of the Cardiacs stuff. Sounds like a good direction. Feels very Punk with a bit of Progressive shining through now and then. I'll try to listen to more of the suggested bands over the weekend. Thanks again. ------------- Past all mortals as we, here we can be. |
Posted By: Don Quito
Date Posted: October 22 2005 at 13:46
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You know, I started a thread where I was asking people's opinion about System Of A Down to be considered as prog related and I almost got my eye black The reason why I posted that thread was because I read about System of A Down to have incorporated prog related elements like bizare shifts in time signatures and tempo in their music, which I consider to be true at all... But people think that this will turn out to be more like a power/nu metal archives or a junkyard, instead of what it really is, which I don't agree at all. They think that because of having this band in the archives, you'll have to introduce others such as Rammstein or Limp Bizkit, but I don't think they are in the same level as System Of A Down (They suck). I think SOAD's materials are artistically and musically pretty well done... Not that I am a true fan of them, but I think they're great... Probably someday we'll have them in... Who knows when... Maybe is way to far, but it'll come that day... ------------- KEEP THE PROMISE YOU MADE |
... hehehe!!! Posted By: Don Quito
Date Posted: October 22 2005 at 13:58
It's really impressive that some kids of that age have lots of habits beyond their age and it could be great that he can be introduced to prog music any time... I don't think he will regret this... I think all of us have been introduced to this music stage by stage. I remember when I was first introduced to Rush, I prefered more their early ages and have a hard time with their 80's material (after Moving Pictures), because I was more into the hard/metal rock stuff, but now I love every single Rush album and I became impressive with their work that I collect every merchandise that comes out. With Rush I became more interested to listen to progressive stuff, including styles such as Canterbury Scene / Kraut Rock / RIO/Avant-prog, as part of the prog universe... It is just amazing!!! ------------- KEEP THE PROMISE YOU MADE |
Posted By: Tristan
Date Posted: October 22 2005 at 14:24
| My 14 year old likes Tool, Porcupine Tree, Rush, Pink Floyd, Dream Theater when I have it on in the car. He finds Ozric Tentacles "too wierd". He mainly listens to Led Zep, Black Sabbath/Ozzie and Guns n Roses on his own. |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: October 22 2005 at 17:12
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Your best bet would be to start him off on bands like Kings X, Tool and The Mars Volta. The first two bands are closer than most prog groups to punk and Tool and TMV are modern chart bands. From there take him to the likes of Dream Theater, Spocks Beard and Marillion. If hes still interested introduce him to the older bands like Pink Floyd and Genesis and from there its up to him. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
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Posted By: Don Quito
Date Posted: October 22 2005 at 17:18
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Tool is definitively a good choice... Start with Undertow... Awesome!!! ------------- KEEP THE PROMISE YOU MADE |
Posted By: Rosescar
Date Posted: October 23 2005 at 08:17
| Led Zeppelin -> Pink Floyd -> King Crimson |
Posted By: Tristan Mulders
Date Posted: October 23 2005 at 08:41
I started with Marillion when I was 12  (almost 19 now and still love them )------------- Interested in my reviews? You can find them http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=784 - HERE "...He will search until He's found a Way to take the Days..." |