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No more drama

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Category: Topics not related to music
Forum Name: General discussions
Forum Description: Discuss any topic at all that is not music-related
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=132824
Printed Date: November 23 2024 at 04:40
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Topic: No more drama
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Subject: No more drama
Date Posted: April 12 2024 at 15:40
It has been a rough week ... I'm sorry if I offended some of you in these heated discussions, that was never my intention. I'll try to stay out of them going forward, it simply takes too much time and focus away from the music. Political topics are a SCNR thing for me - I know it is pointless discussing them in a forum, since the discussion always deteriorates into name-calling and fallacious arguments that would take weeks to resolve, time which essentially nobody has.

I'm sorry that I got angry towards Catcher10 and Moshkito. I still do not agree with what you wrote and how you engaged me (and others), but of course this is a public forum and we are all free to pretty much do what we like.

I'll get back to focusing on the music. See you around!



Replies:
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 12 2024 at 15:48
At least you weren't ignored. That's far worse.


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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 12 2024 at 15:54
Being ignored is not something I tend to worry about ... 


Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: April 12 2024 at 21:41
For some time now I don't discuss politics or social topics online, 'cause I know it can easily lead to arguments and dramas. And forums are echo chambers. I'm a member of a forum about a popular Polish TV show and that forum is filled with almost exclusively right-wingers or alt-right people. And every time a political topic is talked about over there, and someone says something homophobic, racist or really really fricking stupid and a whole bunch of other users just agree, and nobody even questions that unethical way of thinking, nobody comes over with a counterargument, I cringe of embarrassment.

The forum users are like a bunch of surströmmings rotting in their online echo chamber tin can, and when someone from the outside world opens this can up, there comes that awful stench.

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“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
— Ernest Vong


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 12 2024 at 22:07
^ That may be true, but those forum posters are misled assh*les and it's important to remember that.   You're either on the side of humanity or you're not.




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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: April 12 2024 at 22:33
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

^ That may be true, but those forum posters are misled assh*les and it's important to remember that.   You're either on the side of humanity or you're not.


That's true. And that's why on that forum, I exclusively talk about the technical aspects of the TV Show.

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“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
— Ernest Vong


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 12 2024 at 22:33
Ok, drama


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 12 2024 at 22:52
Gotta have some drama !

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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 12 2024 at 23:32
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

You're either on the side of humanity or you're not.

Do you think that anyone who disagrees with the views you hold on these important topics is automatically evil? I think that for many of these matters (homophobia for instance) there is a range of opinions out there, and not all people that are incompatible with my views on the issue are "bad people". So at least for me, I don't feel anger towards them, or the need to insult them.


Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: April 13 2024 at 00:12
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

You're either on the side of humanity or you're not.


Do you think that anyone who disagrees with the views you hold on these important topics is automatically evil? I think that for many of these matters (homophobia for instance) there is a range of opinions out there, and not all people that are incompatible with my views on the issue are "bad people". So at least for me, I don't feel anger towards them, or the need to insult them.
I actually agree with you, Mike. That's the reason I didn't cancel that forum and kept talking with those users about the show. I just don't talk with them about politics etc.

I believe that despite having different views than a certain group of people, who are into the same franchise or music style (you get the idea) as you, and despite the fact you hate their views with a passion, you can still get along. 👍

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“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
— Ernest Vong


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 13 2024 at 00:22
Society has changed a lot - as I mentioned elsewhere, in the 90s there was more room for disagreement. The "corridor of allowable opinions", if you will, was much wider than it is today. Of course memory is not completely reliable, as the brain modifies memories over time. But even today we can see this "corridor" getting more and more narrow. At the same time the "us vs them" mentality is increasing.

I miss these days when you could discuss different points of view even on controversial issues without necessarily reaching the name-calling stage at some point. Nowadays it seems like we reach that stage even before the argument begins, by people preemptively using pejorative terms on "them" to virtuously signal their position within the "us" group. Undoubtedly social media is partially (or mostly) to blame for this, making it much easier to attack people verbally without facing immediate consequences.   


Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: April 13 2024 at 00:25
^^ Yes, I really believe that one of the most important things we need to do to preserve our liberal society is to try to get along with people who have different views. Within reasonable limits of course. This "corridor of allowable opinions" isn't infinitely wide for most people. Smile


Posted By: Archisorcerus
Date Posted: April 13 2024 at 06:32
affasasfa


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 13 2024 at 07:38
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Society has changed a lot - as I mentioned elsewhere, in the 90s there was more room for disagreement. The "corridor of allowable opinions", if you will, was much wider than it is today. 
...

Hi,

I think a lot of this had to do with the rise of the Internet. I was involved in the very early Fido threads about progressive music, and while there were a lot of folks there that knew their stuff, there were a lot of folks that also had never heard of a lot of things.

In general, the Internet became the place to find and learn about any band, from anywhere, which is something that was not available before, and only a few magazines touched up a thing or two, and this made room for bad reviews, like in one specific magazine, it trashed Van der Graaf and Peter Hammill for not knowing how to sing ... let me tell you that I think that magazine went down to the pits in the next year or so ... and that folks that were on the fringe, all of a sudden woke up and spoke.

The internet, has been massive, for the revelation of what "progressive" is, and has been. Things kinda died in the 80's because there was not a whole lot of publicity about any music, but the Internet around 1990, pretty much changed history right there.


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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: April 13 2024 at 08:00
Nothing says "I don't want drama" like spawning a sequel. 

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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: Jacob Schoolcraft
Date Posted: May 25 2024 at 09:54
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Society has changed a lot - as I mentioned elsewhere, in the 90s there was more room for disagreement. The "corridor of allowable opinions", if you will, was much wider than it is today. 
...


Hi,

I think a lot of this had to do with the rise of the Internet. I was involved in the very early Fido threads about progressive music, and while there were a lot of folks there that knew their stuff, there were a lot of folks that also had never heard of a lot of things.

In general, the Internet became the place to find and learn about any band, from anywhere, which is something that was not available before, and only a few magazines touched up a thing or two, and this made room for bad reviews, like in one specific magazine, it trashed Van der Graaf and Peter Hammill for not knowing how to sing ... let me tell you that I think that magazine went down to the pits in the next year or so ... and that folks that were on the fringe, all of a sudden woke up and spoke.

The internet, has been massive, for the revelation of what "progressive" is, and has been. Things kinda died in the 80's because there was not a whole lot of publicity about any music, but the Internet around 1990, pretty much changed history right there.


Internet or not...there will always be a "Back In The Woods " mentality in the social environment where I live.

And that's Cumberland County. Vineland, Millville and Bridgeton, New Jersey

With music it all began in 1974 when Robin Trower Bridge Of Sighs was released. When Southern Rock went commercial unlike the Almann Brothers Band at the Fillmore East which had a Progressive edge to it.

Fiocchi...you're into Gong? Popol Vuh? Amon Duul II? That's why you're all F up in the head because you listen to Electronic Music and Prog. These were low life characters that Gary Busey often imitated. The world of CCR .

They were full of ignorant stupidity. If they noticed you read Harlan Ellison or Herman Hesse it usually meant that you were mentally challenged.

They couldn't understand my record collection.

"Yeah...Greenslade..is that a crayon company?"

"Yeah...Three Friends...wasn't that Newell, Williams & Sweikert at Menantico?"

"Yeah...Steve Hachett wasn't he an axe murderer?"

"Yeah..Art Zoyd..wasn't he Richard Ramirez?"

"Yeah...Pulsar ..is that your watch?"

"Yeah...Ange ..is that a fruit?"

Don't come here. Don't ever come here . Warning you. It's the most backwards place in America...Its an insult to the Southern United States where bands like Camel are respected and not thought to be the cigarettes..


Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: May 25 2024 at 10:17
^ Hey, John! You'll no doubt be pleased to know I've actually been blocked on other sites by users because of Harlan.

You know, the usual derision, my rebuttal, they throw out more crap about HE (while admitting they've never actually read him) and how he was a "troll," etc., etc.

When I try to actually cultivate a narrative, they shut down. Bugf*ck!

Art Zoyd = Richard Ramirez? What now?

-------------
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay


Posted By: Jacob Schoolcraft
Date Posted: May 26 2024 at 11:36
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

^ Hey, John! You'll no doubt be pleased to know I've actually been blocked on other sites by users because of Harlan.

You know, the usual derision, my rebuttal, they throw out more crap about HE (while admitting they've never actually read him) and how he was a "troll," etc., etc.

When I try to actually cultivate a narrative, they shut down. Bugf*ck!

Art Zoyd = Richard Ramirez? What now?


Hahahahaha! Omg...that is insane! All over Harlan? But I guess I'm not surprised anymore...anything goes I suppose? Wow that is truly anal though not unlike Mayslanding, New Jersey where people act as if John Fogerty is the next messiah. Or that Swamp Rock should be practiced 10 hours a day..Its not Mozart or Paganini..its Swamp Rock... 😃


Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: May 26 2024 at 13:50
At first, I thought this was a thread for those who were tired of listening to Trevor Horn's YES album. Tongue


Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: May 26 2024 at 14:01
I would argue that drama is a fundamental component of the universe, just like diapers and swirly straws.

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i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag
that's a happy bag of lettuce
this car smells like cartilage
nothing beats a good video about fractions


Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: May 26 2024 at 14:06
"If there's not drama and negativity in my life, all my songs will be really wack and boring or something" (Eminem).

One might uncharitably infer from that there is not nearly enough drama and negativity in his life.


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https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts


Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: May 26 2024 at 14:21
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

"If there's not drama and negativity in my life, all my songs will be really wack and boring or something" (Eminem).

One might uncharitably infer from that there is not nearly enough drama and negativity in his life.


That Marshall, what a diva.

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https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay


Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: May 26 2024 at 14:36
Originally posted by Jacob Schoolcraft Jacob Schoolcraft wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

^ Hey, John! You'll no doubt be pleased to know I've actually been blocked on other sites by users because of Harlan.

You know, the usual derision, my rebuttal, they throw out more crap about HE (while admitting they've never actually read him) and how he was a "troll," etc., etc.

When I try to actually cultivate a narrative, they shut down. Bugf*ck!

Art Zoyd = Richard Ramirez? What now?


Hahahahaha! Omg...that is insane! All over Harlan? But I guess I'm not surprised anymore...anything goes I suppose? Wow that is truly anal though not unlike Mayslanding, New Jersey where people act as if John Fogerty is the next messiah. Or that Swamp Rock should be practiced 10 hours a day..Its not Mozart or Paganini..its Swamp Rock... 😃


Tragicomic! Any time I catch a glimmer of anything CCR-related, I'm like



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https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay


Posted By: Jacob Schoolcraft
Date Posted: May 26 2024 at 16:08


Tragicomic! Any time I catch a glimmer of anything CCR-related, I'm like

[/QUOTE]

That's hilarious! 😃 😀 😄

I had to work for someone like that once. I kept thinking at rehearsal.."Why are you treating John Fogerty like he's Keith Emerson?" That's the night I bailed out. I went quietly. I should have said..."The Civil War called..they found your diary"


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 26 2024 at 16:21
Eminem is a genius, and he's correct that drama & negativity is integral to an artist's work.   Do you have to suffer to be a great artist?   Not necessarily, but it absolutely makes a difference.




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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: May 26 2024 at 17:13
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Eminem is a genius, and he's correct that drama & negativity is integral to an artist's work.   Do you have to suffer to be a great artist?   Not necessarily, but it absolutely makes a difference.

In the mortal words of Albert Collins, "Nobody leaves this place without singin' the blues."


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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 26 2024 at 17:18
^ You got that right, bubba.


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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: May 26 2024 at 19:48
Originally posted by Jacob Schoolcraft Jacob Schoolcraft wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:



Tragicomic! Any time I catch a glimmer of anything CCR-related, I'm like

{GIF}


That's hilarious! 😃 😀 😄

I had to work for someone like that once. I kept thinking at rehearsal.."Why are you treating John Fogerty like he's Keith Emerson?" That's the night I bailed out. I went quietly. I should have said..."The Civil War called..they found your diary"





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https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay


Posted By: Jacob Schoolcraft
Date Posted: May 27 2024 at 07:13
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by Jacob Schoolcraft Jacob Schoolcraft wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:



Tragicomic! Any time I catch a glimmer of anything CCR-related, I'm like

{GIF}


That's hilarious! 😃 😀 😄

I had to work for someone like that once. I kept thinking at rehearsal.."Why are you treating John Fogerty like he's Keith Emerson?" That's the night I bailed out. I went quietly. I should have said..."The Civil War called..they found your diary"





Lol!


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 27 2024 at 09:51
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Eminem is a genius, and he's correct that drama & negativity is integral to an artist's work.   Do you have to suffer to be a great artist?   Not necessarily, but it absolutely makes a difference.


Hi,

It can be, and it might be and then again, maybe not. Some folks write within their experience, and others write from without. And regardless of how they do this, in many ways, we are still attracted to this or that person ... no one stops reading AEPoe because of the drugs. No one stops reading Rimbaud because of ... no one stops reading De Sade because it was written with/from poop. 

But there are times when these things hurt ... and the artist pays for it ... let's not talk about a few Spaniards that were put down because of what they wrote, and they were not the only ones. Some actors and directors and artists were also put down. 

Greatness, is a tough thing ... I imagine that it is grossly overrated, but there are times when it comes out really well and strong ... and we know some things from it ... I mean, can you really just think that Guernica is just an idea in a man's head? All the man had to do was look outside his window and see body parts all over the street ... and the same thing happened later in almost all of Europe, a lot of which was hidden, but has surfaced in a lot of film materials over the years, specially in France, where things were specially confusing as folks tried hard to survive troops going left, and then troops going right from the opposite camps!

It's easy to say that drama is a part of life ... I simply say, it's life, regardless.


-------------
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 27 2024 at 10:11
^Interesting perspective, and well-said.   Life is indeed life, and if you don't live the harsh parts as well as the great parts, you miss out on a profound dimension of it.







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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: Jacob Schoolcraft
Date Posted: May 29 2024 at 15:04
People in life become fixated on pursuing advantages and its basically the side to life I don't like dealing with. There's no real need for selfish behavior and damage to others to exist. It's how musicians end up getting the sh*t end of the stick.

It doesn't always have a lot to do with music. Sometimes it reveals the worse scenario for a band because of sexual promiscuity. Peter Banks revealed the damage in store for everyone. If musicians just came with a book of instructions. Like..."Leave this one be" "This one is anti social and as a filthy rich manager I am going to accommodate he or she.

Did a bell ever ring in a record executive's head telling them that they'd make one hell of a better profit if they just left the artist alone? Let the artist do their work. It's always the same old song and dance. They have to hang in the recording studio and make suggestions and many times ..( for decades)..it just didn't work. A talented artist would turn out a contrived album because of the record company.

Think about the pressure that Capitol Records put on Brian Wilson when he was recording SMILE ...back in 66' and 67'. Some of the music was odd..I get it. Capitol had invested in the band and now it's leader wanted to hire a poet and write strange songs. "Wind Chimes' and "Wonderful" or "Surf's Up" ...the Elements Suite which was more avant in areas and instead of having appreciation for an art they worried about money. IF they had left Wilson alone or IF they had been supportive of his ideas..or enthusiastic there would have been a good possibility that SMILE would have been received the Sgt. Pepper treatment by the youth....and they could have made a million by being honest instead of dishonest.

Jimi Hendrix wanted to make Purple Haze an album side. He wanted it to be like a mini opera. The record company wouldn't allow that. The song ended up being 3 or 4 minutes. He came close to what he wanted on "1983..A MERMAN I SHALL TURN TO BE..but he even complained about Electric Ladyland revealing how he was a bit restricted in places. Why? I mean...I don't trust the reasoning behind that.

The artist works really hard at becoming skilled at writing and playing. Possibly since childhood. They create innovative music on their own. That's what the fans want. That's what fans were willing to pay for and the record companies come along and completely screw it up. And as a result...the band's second and third album sounds too much like their first. Why? Because they left things out. New ideas which would have made them sound different or unique...but because the first album had success the record company wanted them to repeat that sequence instead of being honest.

Billy Joel and Laura Nyro were able to turn out hit records without trying to repeat their first album or a certain type of formula or style. Every one of their albums being different and not some cheap contrived idea to repeat the past. What they wrote was inspired not contrived. It's sad that the music business had to be this way. John Lennon and Paul McCartney seemed to write what they felt. Songs like "I'm A Loser", "Baby's In Black", "Help", "I've Just Seen A Face", "Norwegian Wood" all became internationally popular and the record company were beyond pleased. But the fact remains that those songs were unusual for the times. They were a little Dylan and Byrds influenced..but they were very original. With the exception of personal
assistance from the magnificent George Martin... no one in the industry seemed to be pressuring the Beatles to change their music.



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