Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
Forum Description: Make or seek recommendations and discuss specific prog albums
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=132175 Printed Date: November 23 2024 at 20:51 Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Happy 50th Birthday...Brain Salad SurgeryPosted By: Criswell
Subject: Happy 50th Birthday...Brain Salad Surgery
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 07:16
…released December 7, 1973…
It’s still a head-scratcher to me what regard this
album has amongst the voters at progarchives. BSS doesn’t even place in
the top 100 prog albums, let alone the top 10. It stands at the absolute
pinnacle on the high alter of prog rock for me…
Cheers!
Replies: Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 07:21
4.16| 2094 ratings | 218 reviews
A high rating IMO, top 100 ends with a rating of 4.25 (around that), so close enough.
Well respected and beloved album usually around here, I've rarely seen anyone dismiss this album.
Posted By: Octopus II
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 07:31
A fantastic album, superb artwork.
Posted By: Frets N Worries
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 07:34
My favorite ELP record! I'll listen to it right now
------------- The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.
Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time...
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 07:39
Why am I disappointed that I bought Brain Salad Surgery instead of Love Beach?
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 07:53
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
Why am I disappointed that I bought Brain Salad Surgery instead of Love Beach?
Tjah, but I guess, many of us are not suprised by now.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
Posted By: Criswell
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 07:59
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
Why am I disappointed that I bought Brain Salad Surgery instead of Love Beach?
If I had a nickel every time someone mentions Love Beach around here, I could retire a few years earlier...
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 08:05
David_D wrote:
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
Why am I disappointed that I bought Brain Salad Surgery instead of Love Beach?
Tjah, but I guess, many of us are not suprised by now.
I only bought Brain Salad Surgery because it was on sale for £1 at a charity shop and I've only listened to it once. Still You Turn Me On is a nice song though, which includes the immortal lyrics, "Every day a little sadder, A little madder, Someone get me a ladder."
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 08:27
BSS is not one of my most favourite ELP albums, but I find it to be quite an achievement, even vocals could be better.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
Posted By: Frets N Worries
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 08:48
I find 'Toccata' to be the weakest track on here, and even then, it's a great piece. The album's atmosphere is darker, perfect for the artwork. Of course, the centerpiece of the album is the epic 'Karn Evil 9' (which is superior to Tarkus in my opinion) but all the other songs are good as well. 10/10 record, it has bonus points for Benny the Bouncer. Love this album.
------------- The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.
Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time...
Posted By: Criswell
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 09:08
Frets N Worries wrote:
I find 'Toccata' to be the weakest track on here, and even then, it's a great piece. The album's atmosphere is darker, perfect for the artwork. Of course, the centerpiece of the album is the epic 'Karn Evil 9' (which is superior to Tarkus in my opinion) but all the other songs are good as well. 10/10 record, it has bonus points for Benny the Bouncer. Love this album.
Some here dismiss Benny the Bouncer as a throw-away track. This
album introduced the Moog Apollo, a prototype of the Polymoog, which was the
first polyphonic synthesizer. I’ve always considered BtB to be a showcase for
this new instrument’s sound.
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 09:39
My favourite album for many a decade and most of my life.
Possibly though was this a missed opportunity for ELP to nail down a prog album that was prog and nothing but prog. A more consistent and satisfying listen for me can be found by skipping a couple of tracks. Then you have:
Jerusalem
Toccata
Karn Evil 9
this is maybe 36-37 minutes just on it's own and you can find a whole plethora of albums in PA's top 100 that have this running time.
The dark sci-fi narrative is perfectly kicked off by the opening track with Blake's lyrics about dark satanic mills that were destroying England's green and pleasant land. Fast forward to the far future and you have a master computer handing humanity it's collective backside on a platter.
This version of the album could have been released with the other BSS session tracks Brain Salad Surgery and When The Apple Blossom Blooms right at the end. Nowadays this is pretty much how I listen to it although I don't feel the need skip Still You Turn Me On or BTB. They are part of ELP and their personality but I don't believe they fuel the sci-fi narrative I love.
In recent times Carl Palmer has been suggesting that ELP were not (just) a prog band but were in fact eclectic. He has a point. Light and Dark is something they did well.
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 10:10
Frets N Worries wrote:
I find 'Toccata' to be the weakest track on here, and even then, it's a great piece. The album's atmosphere is darker, perfect for the artwork. Of course, the centerpiece of the album is the epic 'Karn Evil 9' (which is superior to Tarkus in my opinion) but all the other songs are good as well. 10/10 record, it has bonus points for Benny the Bouncer. Love this album.
I find BSS to be a bit over-the-top, like Thick as a Brick from the same year, just not as much as The Brick.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 10:30
David_D wrote:
Frets N Worries wrote:
I find 'Toccata' to be the weakest track on here, and even then, it's a great piece. The album's atmosphere is darker, perfect for the artwork. Of course, the centerpiece of the album is the epic 'Karn Evil 9' (which is superior to Tarkus in my opinion) but all the other songs are good as well. 10/10 record, it has bonus points for Benny the Bouncer. Love this album.
I find BSS to be a bit over-the-top, like Thick as a Brick from the same year, just not as much as The Brick.
ELP were over the top
Posted By: Frets N Worries
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 10:37
richardh wrote:
David_D wrote:
Frets N Worries wrote:
I find 'Toccata' to be the weakest track on here, and even then, it's a great piece. The album's atmosphere is darker, perfect for the artwork. Of course, the centerpiece of the album is the epic 'Karn Evil 9' (which is superior to Tarkus in my opinion) but all the other songs are good as well. 10/10 record, it has bonus points for Benny the Bouncer. Love this album.
I find BSS to be a bit over-the-top, like Thick as a Brick from the same year, just not as much as The Brick.
ELP were over the top
No doubt it's over the top, that's why it's amazing
------------- The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.
Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time...
Posted By: Progishness
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 10:38
I always thought it was such a shame that the title track was dropped (probably because of space limitations on the original vinyl release) and actually released on a flexi-disc given away with the NME which I remember buying back in the day, however my digital track listing for BSS with a playing time of 48mins is:
Jerusalem
Toccata
Still You Turn Me On...
Benny the Bouncer
Brain Salad Surgery
Karn Evil 9
[which I think works well]
------------- "We're going to need a bigger swear jar."
Chloë Grace Moretz as Mindy McCready aka 'Hit Girl' in Kick-Ass 2
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 10:50
richardh wrote:
ELP were over the top
As you surely know, one of my absolutely favourite bands - if I should have some.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 11:21
richardh wrote:
David_D wrote:
I find BSS to be a bit over-the-top, like Thick as a Brick from the same year, just not as much as The Brick.
ELP were over the top
I don't find the earlier albums to be over-the-top.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
Posted By: Progishness
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 11:24
David_D wrote:
richardh wrote:
David_D wrote:
I find BSS to be a bit over-the-top, like Thick as a Brick from the same year, just not as much as The Brick.
ELP were over the top
I don't find the earlier albums to be over-the-top.
I think everything up to BSS is quality stuff (both the studio and live releases)... the jury is still out on Works vol.1 for me... and as for the rest of their output, the less said the better.
------------- "We're going to need a bigger swear jar."
Chloë Grace Moretz as Mindy McCready aka 'Hit Girl' in Kick-Ass 2
Posted By: Octopus II
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 11:27
I remember buying NME which had this free flexi disk, many, many years ago.
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 12:01
To be exact, it's only "Karn Evil 9, 1st Impression, Part 1" I think of as over-the-top, while "Toccata" to me is really superb.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 12:39
Brain Salad Surgery is nothing short of a milestone, IMO. "Karn Evil 9" is one of those achievements that, for me, defines progressive rock.
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 12:56
Let's see...1973. I was a 15 year old long haired grade 11 ELP fanboy. I got this one for Christmas that year. I know my mom was deeply concerned with the cover art. Skulls and such. But my dad was always a little more open to my music.
At the time I thought it was the greatest thing ever recorded. Today, I'd put it 3rd behind Trilogy and their debut, Emerson Lake & Palmer.
Just about to put my OG NM copy on now.
------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 13:02
I didn't buy my first ELP album until around three years ago. Unfortunately, it happened to be BSS. Some would say I was a Lucky Man to have picked up Brain Salad Surgery as my first ELP album and at a bargain price too, but I just say C'est La Vie.
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 13:55
I stand corrected. My copy is a Mint Condition, Pristine from beginning to end, copy. And it's brilliant !
I would go as far as to say it's a lighter (production) album than most. With the debut being their darkest followed closely by Pictures At An Exhibition.
Now onto Tales From Topographic Oceans. That one will take most of the rest of my listening time tonight.
------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 15:44
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
I didn't buy my first ELP album until around three years ago. Unfortunately, it happened to be BSS. Some would say I was a Lucky Man to have picked up Brain Salad Surgery as my first album and at a bargain price too, but I just say C'est La Vie.
Well, Paul, you're not quite a full-blown progger yet, but maybe later on.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 16:49
I'm a huge fan of BSS. Benny can bounce me anytime he wants.
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 16:59
verslibre wrote:
"Karn Evil 9" is one of those achievements that, for me, defines progressive rock.
Now I listened again to "1st Impression, Part I" alone, and it seemed fine to me - maybe finally after 10 years and listening to a lot of Metal as well.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 17:00
omphaloskepsis wrote:
I'm a huge fan of BSS. Benny can bounce me anytime he wants.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
Posted By: mellotronwave
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 17:32
A great LP
Posted By: Awesoreno
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 22:53
I like the big Geiger dongus in the gatefold. Happy anniversary!
On a separate note, Happy Hanukkah!
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: December 07 2023 at 23:44
Atlantic toned down the cover art much to Giger's disappointment. The Indian princess was based on his girlfriend of the time I think.
ELP previewed Karn Evil 9 1st Impression on their 1973 Italian tour that was the subject of the Return Of The Manticore documentary that was aired on the BBC. You can find a performance from Milan on the 3 disc Transmission Possible set. One thing that I notice that stands out is how heavy (weighty) Carl Palmer's bass drum is on the sound mix. That may just have been the venue or more likely the preference of the sound mixer at the time as it was broadcast on Italian radio.
I would recommend checking out the deluxe version of the album that has a couple of alternative instrumental versions of Karn Evil 9 3rd Impression. One is close to the version you can see them working on in the Return Of The Manticore documentary. I've always thought that Palmer struggled with that track a little and it took the world tour to iron out the kinks. The versions from Anaheim and Cal Jam 1974 are better than on the album imo.
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: December 08 2023 at 01:28
David_D wrote:
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
I didn't buy my first ELP album until around three years ago. Unfortunately, it happened to be BSS. Some would say I was a Lucky Man to have picked up Brain Salad Surgery as my first album and at a bargain price too, but I just say C'est La Vie.
Well, Paul, you're not quite a full-blown progger yet, but maybe later on.
But to be fair, I think, you'd already qualify to be a full-blown proto-progger and Neo-progger.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: December 08 2023 at 02:24
verslibre wrote:
"Karn Evil 9" is one of those achievements that, for me, defines progressive rock.
By the way, actually, I find the first five ELP albums as the most archetypal Progressive Rock.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: December 08 2023 at 04:39
richardh wrote:
Atlantic toned down the cover art much to Giger's disappointment. The Indian princess was based on his girlfriend of the time I think.
ELP previewed Karn Evil 9 1st Impression on their 1973 Italian tour that was the subject of the Return Of The Manticore documentary that was aired on the BBC. You can find a performance from Milan on the 3 disc Transmission Possible set. One thing that I notice that stands out is how heavy (weighty) Carl Palmer's bass drum is on the sound mix. That may just have been the venue or more likely the preference of the sound mixer at the time as it was broadcast on Italian radio.
I would recommend checking out the deluxe version of the album that has a couple of alternative instrumental versions of Karn Evil 9 3rd Impression. One is close to the version you can see them working on in the Return Of The Manticore documentary. I've always thought that Palmer struggled with that track a little and it took the world tour to iron out the kinks. The versions from Anaheim and Cal Jam 1974 are better than on the album imo.
------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: December 08 2023 at 05:35
With painful honesty, I must confess, I don't like BSS.
Believe me, I have tried, many a time, to appreciate it, and I always find for me that it falls short of what came before it by the band, and I love every bit of the previous ELP albums, whether live or studio.
Posted By: essexboyinwales
Date Posted: December 08 2023 at 09:31
Great album….haven’t listened to it in ages….perhaps my better half would like to hear it n the car tomorrow?……hmmm, perhaps not!🤣
------------- Heaven is waiting but waiting is Hell
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: December 08 2023 at 10:37
presdoug wrote:
With painful honesty, I must confess, I don't like BSS.
Believe me, I have tried, many a time, to appreciate it, and I always find for me that it falls short of what came before it by the band, and I love every bit of the previous ELP albums, whether live or studio.
I know you like the Organ to be front and centre stage. By this time Emerson was exploiting the synthesiser for all it was worth. Other than that it's the same band.
Sound wise it's quite different to the first four especially as Eddie Offord is no longer involved (the guy was a production engineering genius for ELP and Yes) and Lake's voice was beginnning to show a bit of wear and tear. The 'English Choirboy' purity was no longer apparent although BSS as an album didn't really need that!
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: December 08 2023 at 12:06
Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: December 08 2023 at 12:35
It’s still a head-scratcher to me what regard this album has amongst the voters at progarchives. BSS doesn’t even place in the top 100 prog albums, let alone the top 10.
To me, the real head-scratcher is that there are still some folks who care about the PA top 100. xD
------------- “On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.” — Ernest Vong
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: December 08 2023 at 14:22
Anyway, I would definitely prefer Karn Evil 9 with less rush and 1st Impresion with better vocals - I guess, Lake should be the man.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond