Boston/Journey
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13156
Printed Date: February 23 2025 at 21:37
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Boston/Journey
Posted By: horza
Subject: Boston/Journey
Date Posted: October 16 2005 at 14:18
We have Styx and Kansas on the archive - surely we have room for Boston and Journey - both bands had excellent musicians with tracks bordering on being epics,their album covers were kinda sci-fi and both featured keyboards/synths to the fore,they are on a par at the very least with styx if not kansas 
I love all 4 bands and also had a fondness for Foreigner,now lets not be snobbish about this,we have Starcastle in here as well for goodness sake!!   ------------- Originally posted by darkshade: Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot. |
Replies:
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 16 2005 at 14:19
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Please....no..... ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: horza
Date Posted: October 16 2005 at 14:21
now lets be fair here .... we got deep purple , queen , uriah heep and there has been moves afoot to admit the who ..... for completeness sake at least  ------------- Originally posted by darkshade: Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot. |
stonebeard wrote:Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 16 2005 at 14:24
Take 'em all out I say. Make me dictator. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: horza
Date Posted: October 16 2005 at 14:25
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^ until you the dictator let 'em in ------------- Originally posted by darkshade: Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot. |
Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: October 17 2005 at 11:36
| No, I don't think these bands should be here at all- the bands like Heep, Styx and Queen tended to be more complex and interesting musically than Boston or Journey. There are exceptions- for example, 'Foreplay' by Boston- but on the whole, it's melodic rock/AOR with little progressive in their catalogues. Not that I don't like these bands- they are great- but I personally find, say, Styx's early A & M albums, Queen's first few albums or Uriah Heep's albums until around 'Firefly' to be as progressive as Genesis in their own right. With Boston and Journey and Foreigner as well, it's mainly straight ahead rock on their albums with perhaps one progressive track. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: October 18 2005 at 08:36
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Well said! But the first albums (without that awful singer Steve Perry) from Journey are definitely proggier than the AOR radio-friendly late70's and 80's stuff. They did have Schon and Rollie from the early Santana group and the great Ainsley Dunbar on drums> but I would rather not see them included! ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Trotsky
Date Posted: October 20 2005 at 23:52
Yes, indeed, once again I agree with Salmacis and Sean Trane ... I think there should be no room for Boston, Foreigner ( who have one very nice proggy track that I've heard (Starrider) and Toto who also apparently had one or two proggy moments ... Journey presents the biggest dilemma of all, because the first album is one of the best American progressive rock albums I've ever heard, but the majority of their famous stuff is horrible ... Styx and especially Kansas are in a totally different category, for me ... definitely belong here ------------- "Death to Utopia! Death to faith! Death to love! Death to hope?" thunders the 20th century. "Surrender, you pathetic dreamer.” "No" replies the unhumbled optimist "You are only the present." |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: October 21 2005 at 00:00
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Ok guys, when will we stop asking to include each and every AOR and Alternative band? People in other forums talk about us as a serious place, but adding Boston and Journey, not to say Foreigner is dangerous for our reputation. Some people think that being considered Prog is almost an award and feel insulted if we don't add their favorite bands, well being Prog' is not an award it's almost a stigma for 90% of music listeners, and there's a lot of great music in other genres. I won't go to a POP forum and ask to include Gentle Giant because I like their music, they don't belong there, well Boston, Journey and Foreigner don't belong here. So keep the bands where they belong. Sorry if I was rude. Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: October 21 2005 at 00:40
^I absolutely agree. There's no wat they are prog. plus, both suck ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Trotsky
Date Posted: October 21 2005 at 01:16
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To Stonebeard, Ivan and Miracle ... I agree with your general views, because I don't think Journey's overall output belongs here either (and I too think a lot of it sucks, as you can see from my earlier post) ... but I'm just wondering if your views incorporate the excellence of Journey's first album, which was a powerful work of prog so my basic question is ... have you heard Journey's first album? Of A Lifetime, Kohoutek, Topaz, Mystery Mountain are all songs that would appeal to people who like American style prog (ie early Styx and Kansas' first five albums) ... If you haven't heard it then you are already way off, because it really is a different band ... and this begs the age-old question ... What happens if a band makes a fine progressive rock album and then changes members and goes on to make a large majority of non-prog rubbish but under the same name ... (the other example I can think of is Australia's Blackfeather ... whoss At The Mountain of Madness was THE first Aussie prog album in 1971, but by 1972, they'd changed almost all their members and played boogie-woogie bar rock and had chart-topping hits) ... (btw, if you're going to reply, please address this point, cos no-one has ever given me a satisfactory answer here's what AMG said about the Journey one ... btw Review by Stephen Thomas Erlewine ------------- "Death to Utopia! Death to faith! Death to love! Death to hope?" thunders the 20th century. "Surrender, you pathetic dreamer.” "No" replies the unhumbled optimist "You are only the present." |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: October 21 2005 at 06:33
This is a rhetorical question because indeed Prog Archives has already added bands like Uriah Heep, Kansas, Queen, etc. to the site. The collaborators are allowed to fulminate but that's in order to sublimate their anger, it's not really consequent to block the additions of Styx and Journey. Their early albums were genuine progressive rock (OK, later they made commercial crap in my opinion!), to me it only sounds as a matter of taste to say no to these bands. I keep on repeating  and repeating that Prog Archives has scooped a precedent by adding bands like Queen and Uriah Heep. PLEASE, ROOM FOR SYTX AND JOURNEY, for me but also in order to be consequent, dear Prog Archives  !!
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: October 21 2005 at 22:20
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Uriah Heep is at least one of the ancestors of Prog-Metal, so they belong here, albums as Look At Yourself (Tears in my Eyes, July Morning, etc), Demons & Wizards or The Magician's Birthday are very prog'. Kansas are evidently a Prog' band so there's no need to explain them. Queen: Well I have my doubts. But even if there are bands that don't belong here, it doesn't make the place better adding more, two mistakes don't make a correct option. If you step on dog's crap you dont put your other foot on it to make it even, you try to clean the mess or leave it like this until you can solve the problem (I'm not saying Journey or Boston are Dog's crap, it's only an example). Iván -------------
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Posted By: Lorak
Date Posted: October 22 2005 at 03:48
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Boston maybe, Journey I think is a stretch. However, stranger things have been known to happen. Hey, we might as well consider Depeche Mode as well  Aloha ------------- Two heads are better than one, but if you want something done right, do it yourself. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, but better safe than sorry. Look before you leap, but he who hesitates is lost |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 23 2005 at 13:21
I am basing my opinion (concerning Journey) on the songs "Don't Stop Believin'" and "Lights" alone. I just couldn't bring myself to look further into their catelogue after that. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: October 23 2005 at 13:30
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All I have to say for people who want Journey (well, 70's Journey at least) in is: Don't Stop Believing! Hold on to that feeling! ------------- 
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 23 2005 at 13:33
  ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: October 23 2005 at 15:26
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I have serious doubts about Uriah Heep - Prog metal has many ancestors, but we will probably not see Blue Cheer or Metallica in here any time soon. However, I have no doubts about either Journey or Boston - both wrote music that had progressive tendencies - ie progressive rock (small "p"). That is not the same as Progressive Rock (big "P"). Two good examples of their non-progginess are the absence of literary themes or influences from a wide range of other genres of music. Another is the extensive use of the standard rock song structure in their work. Extending these structures isn't enough, or we'd seriously be considering tracks like "Let There Be Rock" by AC/DC. So don't take the "P" |
Posted By: Damen
Date Posted: October 23 2005 at 16:59
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Not Boston and Journey!!!!!!!!!!! What next, Foreigner??? AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHSDOIJSDFOIJPJSMA{PIJ{ASDPUFSJN"PSOKJMN DP!!TWO!@!1!11!1!TWO!!@!@@!P!@21212NINE!! ------------- "It's amazing that we've been able to put up with each other for 35 years. Most marriages don't last that long these days." -Chris Squire |
Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: October 23 2005 at 22:20
Uhhh... prog related... Ian McDonald anyone? -------------
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Posted By: Trotsky
Date Posted: October 24 2005 at 00:19
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OK, who had a hard time, understanding what I was saying? I think only stoney adressed this one ... ... which is basically, yes, most of Journey sucked, and I don't think they should be included on overall contribution, but have you heard the excellent first album which is basically by a different band, under the same name? ... The music is nothing like the Journey of Open Arms & Don't Stop Believin ... it's damn good (I'd give it a high three star rating) ... do yourself a favour and check it out if you stumble upon it ... surely as proggers we all know that the same set of musicians who produced brilliant prog can go on to make bland pop ... is it so impossible to believe that a pre-Steve Perry Journey was a good prog band? Anyway, this is the last I'll say on the issue ... my answer to the original question is .. no, Boston and Journey don't belong given the current rules of including the band's whole catalogue (and in fact, I wouldn't include any of Boston's albums ... but Journey's first, mmm)
------------- "Death to Utopia! Death to faith! Death to love! Death to hope?" thunders the 20th century. "Surrender, you pathetic dreamer.” "No" replies the unhumbled optimist "You are only the present." |
Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: October 24 2005 at 08:42
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Boston/Journey are 100% AOR. People say adding the Who will be a disaster; imagine if people start trying to get there other favorite pop bands on here by using these sods as an example! To add them, yer gonna need more reasons also. The Who have more good reasons. -------------  
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Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: October 24 2005 at 10:33
| How can somebody judges Journey as 100% AOR? Especially their first and third album are great examples of 'heavy progressive rock', miles away from the AOR with singer Steve Perry. It's the same nonsense as somebody named The Doors a medicore blues-oriented band. The forum seems a place were everybody can sublimate his anger/frustrations/disagreements into nailing good bands and good albums in often unfair and even ridiculous terms (like The Wizard). OK, it remains subjective but there are borders gentlemen! |
Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: October 24 2005 at 10:54
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Sorry, but thats my opinion. I belive I am entitled to express, just as you are. I my opnion they are an AOR band. You have the right and are encouraged to think otherwise. Also, I don't usually nail other bands. There are others who are guiltier than me. Also, I havn't heard there first album, so I have no to speak. Sorry. -------------
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Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: October 24 2005 at 11:11
| OK, The Wizard, I already had the idea that you had never heard their first album, it's really worth to check out, amazing guitarwork, powerful Hammond floods and the track Kohoutek is so compelling! |
Posted By: Trotsky
Date Posted: February 16 2006 at 00:45
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I've listened to Journey's first album twice already today ... very
good album... I find it strange that people insist on rejecting the
band because of the awful Steve Perry pop-era ... when they know that
many other bands have made dramatic changes in style ... Yhe PA problem is that Journey's total career is at least 75% bland AOR pop-rock ... and we have a complete discographies rule ... but this is friendly advice just for the sake of the music ... don't pass on the debut especially if you can find it ... These are the first two paragraphs of the bio on the official site .... Founded in 1973 in
San Francisco around former Santana members Neal Schon and Gregg Rolie,
with the assistance of Ross Valory, George Tickner and Prairie Prince,
Journey’s legacy has spanned over 30 years with 18 U.S. releases and
over 75,000,000 in album sales. Their music is artful, intense, melodic
rock played with passion and superb musicianship. here's a typical Amazon review ...  Journey's terrific debut in 1975, January 15, 2006
Joining Rolie and Schon are drummer Aynsley Dunbar (also of Fank Zappa, Jeff Beck and Sammy Hagar fame), bassist Ross Valory and second guitarist George Tickner. This is also the only Journey release with Tickner on second guitar, as he decided to leave the music business after recording the album. Actually I'm of the opinion that Tickner and Gregg Rolie may have been huge factors in taking on a progressive songwriting attitude on this disc, since the band slowly departed from this approach on their following releases. Tickner not only supports the amazing Neal Schon, laying down choppy lead work, but he also wrote the instrumental track "Topaz", punctuated by deft acoustic passages and big synth washes. Gregg Rolie's organ sounds are huge, but he always gives Ross Valory enough space to provide a full bass bottom and drummer Dunbar to add some sick polyrhythms akin to his work on the earlier Zappa albums. The band delves into a mesmerizing jam session towards the end delivering fluctuating rhythms, awesome cymbal sounds, and a full-fledged keyboard lead. On "Of A Lifetime", Rolie introduces his trademark organ sound where he experiments with almost psychedelic soundscapes that would even surprise the biggest Eloy fans, but it is Neal Schon's unique sense of melody and phrasing on the guitar where no element overtreads each other. On this song, he goes from slowly building arpeggios to jaw-dropping whammy bar usage and finally fierce lead soloing as he is eventually joined by George Tickner for a full-on guitar attack in the outro. The other instrumental "Kohoutek" starts out as a moving piano ballad before gloomy guitar chords are thrown into the mix as pounding drum beats are heard and suddenly the listener is caught amidst madly wailing twin guitar harmonies, Moog sounds, jumping bass lines before things calm down and the piece concludes with a nifty piano melody, almost the same way it started. Among all these fusion-styled compositions are also shorter synth-pop tunes like "To Play Some Music" (which yet closes with another fusion solo) and the somewhat bluesy ballad combo "In My Lonely Feeling / Conversations", two songs that are merged into a single framework. The first part is hook-laden and melody-friendly displaying a beautiful vocal performance by Rolie, while "Conversations" is an all instrumental cut filled with rich bass and keyboard textures. Unlike the Perry era, the Gregg Rolie albums all retain a characteristic prog vibe while still aiming at a more mainstream direction. In this respect, Journey might quite possibly be the one and only band which successfully balanced these two different visions. Though far from being commercially viable, I consider the first three Journey albums absolutely essential for any melodic prog rock fan that enjoys beautiful songwriting, defined by otherwordly guitars and excellent synth work, not to mention the amazing drum and bass combination of Valory and Dunbar. ------------- "Death to Utopia! Death to faith! Death to love! Death to hope?" thunders the 20th century. "Surrender, you pathetic dreamer.” "No" replies the unhumbled optimist "You are only the present." |
Posted By: Trotsky
Date Posted: February 16 2006 at 00:47
I guess it wasn't  ------------- "Death to Utopia! Death to faith! Death to love! Death to hope?" thunders the 20th century. "Surrender, you pathetic dreamer.” "No" replies the unhumbled optimist "You are only the present." |
Posted By: Zac M
Date Posted: February 16 2006 at 01:06
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Journey's first album is one of, if not my favorite, U.S. Prog albums, 4 stars, easily!!! But still, they don't belong here as Trotsky already noted. ------------- "Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression." -Merleau-Ponty |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: February 16 2006 at 02:54
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Hmm. Why are Genesis here then? Their total prog output is less than 30%, making 70% bland AOR and Pop music - almost the same as Journey. Just a thought |
Posted By: Trotsky
Date Posted: February 16 2006 at 03:26
Just a thought? You're probably writing the bio as we speak ... ------------- "Death to Utopia! Death to faith! Death to love! Death to hope?" thunders the 20th century. "Surrender, you pathetic dreamer.” "No" replies the unhumbled optimist "You are only the present." |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: February 16 2006 at 03:42
Nah - no-one on the Admin team has asked me to... |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: February 16 2006 at 04:05
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I agree fully with the debut The next two are still correct, but the Steve Perry stuff.... ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: February 16 2006 at 08:29
| A controversial proposal Horza, but one I'd support. |
Posted By: Dr Know
Date Posted: February 16 2006 at 10:34
| The most proggish song by Boston would be Long Time/ Foreplay, which is on their debut album. Besides that, it´s just rock n roll. |
Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: February 16 2006 at 15:22
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Indeed. However, I maintain that Boston's eponymous debut is one of THE definitive AOR albums. I was deeply disappointed with the follow up 'Don't Look Back' as it seemed to be a clone of the first album without any really memorable moments. Still wouldn't support the inclusion of Boston or Journey though.... |
Posted By: ANDREW
Date Posted: February 17 2006 at 04:43
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I COMPLETELY AGREE!!! |
Posted By: ridingonacamel
Date Posted: February 17 2006 at 19:01
Well to be fair we should put Journey on this site (and magnum)
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Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: February 17 2006 at 21:17
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bah. Boston and Journey were the mainstream b*****dization of prog. Saying they are real prog rock is like saying Nickelback is a real heavy metal band. On a more fun note, if you play Journey's "Separate Ways" on LP at very slow speeds, it sounds like tripped-out sludge metal, and is actually kind of cool. aside from that, they got nothin. ------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 18 2006 at 00:05
I hate being carried towards Genesis posts, but facts are facts and numbers are numbers: 100% Progressive Rock Genesis albums:
Partially Progressive Rock Genesis albums.
POP Genesis albums
Note: Don't count Calling all Stations because it is at least Prog Related, it's bad, it sucks, but it has a Progressive approach, so to be fair I won't count it for any of both sides. Not counting compilations because it would be endless, lets see:
So Cert, you have a lot of certificates and degrees in music, but seems you're not too strong im math. There's no way, no matter what you do to ingnore than almost 3/4 of Genesis production is Progressive Rock, so please, use real facts. If that is not enough for you, at least 4 Genesis albums are in the top 20 of any Prog list from any decent Progressive Rock website, magazine or book. So please, don't place Genesis in the same parragraph with Journey, Boston or Foreigner, it's simply absurd, Genesis are Icons of Prog Rock, the other three are bands you can find anywhere. Iván -------------
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