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Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=130993 Printed Date: November 22 2024 at 07:22 Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Perigeo: the most competent Italian prog-bandPosted By: jamesbaldwin
Subject: Perigeo: the most competent Italian prog-band
Date Posted: May 26 2023 at 18:22
Perigeo have skilfully incorporated the aesthetics of jazz-rock into an utterly personal language. The group's main driving force was bassist Giovanni Tommaso, but it was the combined forces of all the musicians that created this unprecedented sound mixture. In particular, Franco D'Andrea, who was to become one of the most acclaimed stars of jazz piano, and the visionary saxophonist Claudio Fasoli, a true stylist of this instrument, contributed solo interventions, which had nothing to envy from their American colleagues, to the group's sound.
The language is that of jazz with compositions based on powerful vamps, but with articulated structures that are associated with prog. Perhaps the band that comes closest to Perigeo is Ian Carr Belladonna, but in that case the derivation from Miles Davis is more evident.
Perigee developed an inimitable musical discourse, which made them an international cult band.
They acted as a backing band for Soft Machine and Weather Report, but over the course of the two tours, the Italian group ended up overshadowing Soft Machine and made Weather Report suffer to the point that their contract was revoked during the tour.
(Enrico Merlin, Italian musicologist and jazz guitar player)
------------- Gaza: One year of Genocide with the complicity of the West
Replies: Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: May 26 2023 at 20:55
Personally, agree. I visited my older brother- his Freshman year- at North Texas University. His roommate was a jazz drummer. There on their dorm room floor lay Perigeo's debut- Azimut. On the turntable, amazing jazz serenading my ears. I was impressed. I purchased my own copy...my first Italian album. A magical album for me to this day.
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: May 27 2023 at 02:07
Perigeo is probably my fave Italian band, partly because of the Miles/Machine/Nucleus heritage.
I don't see much Weather Report influence, though
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: May 27 2023 at 03:59
Together with Area, Demetrio Stratos soloist and Napoli Centrale,
Perigeo were the only truly original and innovative musical expression in Italy in the 1970s - with the exception of Nino Rota, Ennio Morricone, Piero Umiliani and a few artists in the academic sphere.
It is sad and perhaps difficult to accept, but the facts tell this. Almost everything else is derivative, epigonic, strongly influenced by Anglo-American models.
(Enrico Merlin)
------------- Gaza: One year of Genocide with the complicity of the West
Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: May 30 2023 at 07:43
Excellent band but I think Area, PFM and Banco disagree with that headline.
------------- The Prog Corner
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 30 2023 at 14:12
Hi,
Is there a good link for Perigeo? The toob stuff is likely something else.
Thx
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Posted By: ProgEnStock
Date Posted: June 09 2023 at 02:08
They are less free jazz than Area or Soft Machine. I really like Soft Machine, but I prefer Perigeo than Soft Machine, because there's a less saxophone solo in Perigeo. It's sure that Perigeo take more about american fusion than Soft Machine.
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: June 09 2023 at 06:13
Interesting thread, Enzo! I'd never heard of this band so am very excited to check them out! Hard to disagree with MiamiScott's assertion with regards to Area, PFM and Banco, but I'm willing to listen with an open mind. Of course, your assertion of their originality does not conflict with the talent, accomplishments, and popularity of Area, PFM and Banco, so we're really in no area that might spawn any disagreements.
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: June 09 2023 at 06:53
Listening to the first song of Azimet I'm immediately blown away by the Demetrio Stratos-like vocals--two years before anybody'd heard of Demetrio!--the brilliant Don Pullen-like piano, the truly distinctive saxophone. I wonder if they'd ever heard of the Giuseppi Logan Quartet.
The second song seems to convey a feeling and style that Eumir Deodato would make popular a couple years later in America with cream of the top American jazz players, though there are also Tony Williams Lifetime feelings to it as well (despite the excellent funky bass). I'm am loving this rhythm section! The drummer is wonderful!
The spacious third song opens with the nice Fender Rhodes and electric bass interplay. As sax joins in and then drummer's cymbal play, the keyboard moves to a repeating chord progression while electric guitar and sax solo over the gentle jazz. This reminds me of both The Soft Machine and Miles. As it develops it reminds me more of the works of Alice Coltrane and Pharoah Sanders in the late 1960s.
Side Two's title songs seems to continue the spacious forms from the previous song, though this one a little more free jazz-like. Piano, bowed bass and tuned percussion sounds. This sounds so much like the opening of Return to Forever's "The Romantic Warrior"! (Did Chick steal it from Tommaso?) Then, halfway through, the band pauses to come together for a structured full band presentation--one in which the presentation of the main melody is traded off among the instrumentalists in a kind of call-and-response rondo! Cool! Then Franco goes off on a wild piano solo while guitar and bass keep the vehicle on the road (with drummer providing some very entertaining accents and embellishments).
The second song on Side Two opens with gentle Fender Rhodes chords supporting the twin melody-making of saxophone and Tommaso's reverbed vocalise. Very cool little interlude!
The final songs breaks out sounding very much like a song from The Soft Machine. The dirty electric guitar takes the first lead over the steady drummer, Fender Rhodes chord play, and bullet-note delivery of the bass. The rhythm section is really moving! And the melody lines are awesome! Impressive drum solo in the fourth minute. These guys can all play but the drummer, keyboardist, saxophonist, and bass player are all of the very highest caliber!
An excellent jazz-rock fusion album--one of the best j-r fuse debut albums ever!
Okay, Lorenzo! I'm beginning to get why you started this thread. And I'm SO GLAD you did!
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 09 2023 at 17:49
The one I know best is Genealogia. Surely one of my favourite albums of the 70s. For Pedro, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-hUOd7ucyQI" rel="nofollow - click .
------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: June 09 2023 at 18:08
BrufordFreak wrote:
Listening to the first song of Azimet I'm immediately blown away by the Demetrio Stratos-like vocals--two years before anybody'd heard of Demetrio!--the brilliant Don Pullen-like piano, the truly distinctive saxophone. I wonder if they'd ever heard of the Giuseppi Logan Quartet.
The second song seems to convey a feeling and style that Eumir Deodato would make popular a couple years later in America with cream of the top American jazz players, though there are also Tony Williams Lifetime feelings to it as well (despite the excellent funky bass). I'm am loving this rhythm section! The drummer is wonderful!
The spacious third song opens with the nice Fender Rhodes and electric bass interplay. As sax joins in and then drummer's cymbal play, the keyboard moves to a repeating chord progression while electric guitar and sax solo over the gentle jazz. This reminds me of both The Soft Machine and Miles. As it develops it reminds me more of the works of Alice Coltrane and Pharoah Sanders in the late 1960s.
Side Two's title songs seems to continue the spacious forms from the previous song, though this one a little more free jazz-like. Piano, bowed bass and tuned percussion sounds. This sounds so much like the opening of Return to Forever's "The Romantic Warrior"! (Did Chick steal it from Tommaso?) Then, halfway through, the band pauses to come together for a structured full band presentation--one in which the presentation of the main melody is traded off among the instrumentalists in a kind of call-and-response rondo! Cool! Then Franco goes off on a wild piano solo while guitar and bass keep the vehicle on the road (with drummer providing some very entertaining accents and embellishments).
The second song on Side Two opens with gentle Fender Rhodes chords supporting the twin melody-making of saxophone and Tommaso's reverbed vocalise. Very cool little interlude!
The final songs breaks out sounding very much like a song from The Soft Machine. The dirty electric guitar takes the first lead over the steady drummer, Fender Rhodes chord play, and bullet-note delivery of the bass. The rhythm section is really moving! And the melody lines are awesome! Impressive drum solo in the fourth minute. These guys can all play but the drummer, keyboardist, saxophonist, and bass player are all of the very highest caliber!
An excellent jazz-rock fusion album--one of the best j-r fuse debut albums ever!
Okay, Lorenzo! I'm beginning to get why you started this thread. And I'm SO GLAD you did!
I've read your review, Drew: beautiful!
I'm listening to Perigeo too.
Just think that according to the writings by jazz-guitar player Enrico Merlin, Perigeo acted as a backing band for Soft Machine and Weather Report, but during the two tours, the Italian group ended up overshadowing Soft Machine and made Weather Report suffer to the point that their contract was revoked during the tour.
------------- Gaza: One year of Genocide with the complicity of the West
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: June 09 2023 at 22:17
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: June 10 2023 at 00:34
BrufordFreak wrote:
I'm second trip through Perigeo's sophomore album, and I'm liking it even more than their debut!
Aoll their albums are excellent (including the double live 76, rfeleased in the 90's), except for their last one Non E' Poi Cosi' Lontano and 1980's Alice
Not sure how Fata Morgana fits in their discography (not heard it), as Gnosis doesn't even list it, except as an AKA of Non E' Poi Cosi' Lontano
we could have a double entry here
The whole Perigeo entry seems a bit of a mess, including the year of release of the live albums - posthumously released respectively in 90 & 93 (see Discogs). I can correct dates, but cannot withdraw an album.
.
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: June 10 2023 at 00:50
Sean Trane wrote:
BrufordFreak wrote:
I'm second trip through Perigeo's sophomore album, and I'm liking it even more than their debut!
Aoll their albums are excellent (including the double live 76, rfeleased in the 90's), except for their last one Non E' Poi Cosi' Lontano and 1980's Alice
Not sure how Fata Morgana fits in their discography (not heard it), as Gnosis doesn't even list it, except as an AKA of Non E' Poi Cosi' Lontano
we could have a double entry here
Yes Fata Morgana is the exact same album as Non E' Poi Cosi' Lontano. Guess they thought repackaging it with an awful fantasy-illustration could fool a few progfans into buying their polished elevator fusion. I love every prior release of theirs, but man this one has no personality or teeth at all.
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: June 10 2023 at 00:58
moshkito wrote:
Hi,
Is there a good link for Perigeo? The toob stuff is likely something else.
Thx
Here's one of their albums in full:
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: June 10 2023 at 03:48
I wasn't aware of them, and they're indeed very good. Thanks for the thread!
Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: June 10 2023 at 05:41
Same for me, I'm discovering them. Will explore a bit more... Thanks.
-------------
The razamataz is a pain in the bum
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: June 10 2023 at 06:36
Saperlipopette! wrote:
moshkito wrote:
Hi,
Is there a good link for Perigeo? The toob stuff is likely something else.
Thx
Here's one of their albums in full:
...
Hi,
Thanks ... listening to it now!
Already heard the first album, and now on the 2nd (1976).
It's nice stuff and well done, no doubt about it. However, to my ears this is very reminiscent of the jazz scene in LA in the early 70's ... and I say this almost because there was, for all the years until I left Santa Barbara, a jazz show prior to Guy's show, previously all the way to 2AM, and a couple of years later, until midnight, when Guy would take over.
That does not mean that it isn't good ... it is very good, and for the time slot (early 70's) it makes itself known and can easily be mentioned as outstanding, and I have to agree to an extent ... when we ended up hearing PFM, Banco, Le Orme by 1972, this band, if we had heard it, would be considered very interesting indeed, although I am not sure that it could be compared favorably with the jazz/rock thing in the early 70's around LA. The show, before Guy's was done by a gentleman that was a technician (as well as DJ part time, I think) at KMET in LA ... and he moonlighted in Santa Barbara with his show on tape, but I can not tell you how exact that is.
It was an interesting time, and hearing PERIGIO now, makes one think that indeed, that was some far out stuff, and I agree, it was ... but they were not the only ones. Europe's trends, were not as "jazz" founded as things were in America (thus harder to locate/find), and that is one thing and reason why you don't hear many bands doing that kind of stuff, although, if memory serves me right, Jukka Tolonen/Tasavalan Presidenti would be somewhat similar, and indeed, Odyssey (Terje Rypdal's early work) was also very jazz oriented, although not quite within a format that we were familiar with ... the long stuff in those albums, is (for my ears) a bit towards the freedom and ability that Miles had ... who would be a very good influence in Europe and even early Jan Garbarek was going crazy as well as many others within the jazz scene that appears to have woken up in the very early 70's, of which a Perigio would be a part ... though I have not exactly studied/listened to a lot more "jazz/rock" blends out of Europe at that time.
Those two albums are very good, and worthy of a collector of progressive music for sure!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: June 10 2023 at 08:52
Saperlipopette! wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
BrufordFreak wrote:
I'm second trip through Perigeo's sophomore album, and I'm liking it even more than their debut!
Aoll their albums are excellent (including the double live 76, rfeleased in the 90's), except for their last one Non E' Poi Cosi' Lontano and 1980's Alice
Not sure how Fata Morgana fits in their discography (not heard it), as Gnosis doesn't even list it, except as an AKA of Non E' Poi Cosi' Lontano
we could have a double entry here
Yes Fata Morgana is the exact same album as Non E' Poi Cosi' Lontano. Guess they thought repackaging it with an awful fantasy-illustration could fool a few progfans into buying their polished elevator fusion. I love every prior release of theirs, but man this one has no personality or teeth at all.
It's more than that, really
There are some albums released as Perigeo Special and others as New Perigeo
Poor 80's attempts at prolonging their career, apparently.
.
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
Posted By: telefunk
Date Posted: June 10 2023 at 12:02
Will try to check out. But not availableon Bandcamp :-(
And please no theatrical Stratis vocals :-(
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: June 11 2023 at 15:06
moshkito wrote:
Saperlipopette! wrote:
moshkito wrote:
Hi,
Is there a good link for Perigeo? The toob stuff is likely something else.
Thx
Here's one of their albums in full:
...
Hi,
Thanks ... listening to it now!
Already heard the first album, and now on the 2nd (1976).
It's nice stuff and well done, no doubt about it. However, to my ears this is very reminiscent of the jazz scene in LA in the early 70's ... and I say this almost because there was, for all the years until I left Santa Barbara, a jazz show prior to Guy's show, previously all the way to 2AM, and a couple of years later, until midnight, when Guy would take over.
That does not mean that it isn't good ... it is very good, and for the time slot (early 70's) it makes itself known and can easily be mentioned as outstanding, and I have to agree to an extent ... when we ended up hearing PFM, Banco, Le Orme by 1972, this band, if we had heard it, would be considered very interesting indeed, although I am not sure that it could be compared favorably with the jazz/rock thing in the early 70's around LA. The show, before Guy's was done by a gentleman that was a technician (as well as DJ part time, I think) at KMET in LA ... and he moonlighted in Santa Barbara with his show on tape, but I can not tell you how exact that is.
It was an interesting time, and hearing PERIGIO now, makes one think that indeed, that was some far out stuff, and I agree, it was ... but they were not the only ones. Europe's trends, were not as "jazz" founded as things were in America (thus harder to locate/find), and that is one thing and reason why you don't hear many bands doing that kind of stuff, although, if memory serves me right, Jukka Tolonen/Tasavalan Presidenti would be somewhat similar, and indeed, Odyssey (Terje Rypdal's early work) was also very jazz oriented, although not quite within a format that we were familiar with ... the long stuff in those albums, is (for my ears) a bit towards the freedom and ability that Miles had ... who would be a very good influence in Europe and even early Jan Garbarek was going crazy as well as many others within the jazz scene that appears to have woken up in the very early 70's, of which a Perigio would be a part ... though I have not exactly studied/listened to a lot more "jazz/rock" blends out of Europe at that time.
Those two albums are very good, and worthy of a collector of progressive music for sure!
Yes I think I agree. I really love those four first Perigeo-albums, but I don't understand how they were supposedly "the only truly original and innovative musical expression in Italy in the 1970's". That's sort of belittling to a wonderfully vibrant scene (which consider to have plenty of originality and innovation to offer really) and kind of placing Perigeo in a league of their own where they don't belong - or need to be. It's great music all right, top notch. But they certainly sound like the music they've must have been listening to and were inspired by. I don't mind that at all. If art was all a mere innovation/originality-competition, Area would get an easy win over Perigeo. Goblin too. But that's not how I personally approach art though. I do care about the unique voice and personality in someone's art, but to me it's ok to operate within a certain, established "tradition" or style if you will. Like Perigeo did.
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: June 11 2023 at 17:38
telefunk wrote:
Will try to check out. But not availableon Bandcamp :-(
And please no theatrical Stratis vocals :-(
Really, Marko? You don't like theatricity in your prog?
I ADORE Demetrio's work--his efforts to take the human voice to its extremes and still control it are fascinating--even mesmerizing--to me.
Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: June 11 2023 at 19:15
God I love RPI.
It is an exquisite progressive style of music. I will explore this band. Thanks gents.
------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: June 11 2023 at 19:54
Saperlipopette! wrote:
moshkito wrote:
Saperlipopette! wrote:
moshkito wrote:
Hi,
Is there a good link for Perigeo? The toob stuff is likely something else.
Thx
Here's one of their albums in full:
...
Hi,
Thanks ... listening to it now!
Already heard the first album, and now on the 2nd (1976).
It's nice stuff and well done, no doubt about it. However, to my ears this is very reminiscent of the jazz scene in LA in the early 70's ... and I say this almost because there was, for all the years until I left Santa Barbara, a jazz show prior to Guy's show, previously all the way to 2AM, and a couple of years later, until midnight, when Guy would take over.
That does not mean that it isn't good ... it is very good, and for the time slot (early 70's) it makes itself known and can easily be mentioned as outstanding, and I have to agree to an extent ... when we ended up hearing PFM, Banco, Le Orme by 1972, this band, if we had heard it, would be considered very interesting indeed, although I am not sure that it could be compared favorably with the jazz/rock thing in the early 70's around LA. The show, before Guy's was done by a gentleman that was a technician (as well as DJ part time, I think) at KMET in LA ... and he moonlighted in Santa Barbara with his show on tape, but I can not tell you how exact that is.
It was an interesting time, and hearing PERIGIO now, makes one think that indeed, that was some far out stuff, and I agree, it was ... but they were not the only ones. Europe's trends, were not as "jazz" founded as things were in America (thus harder to locate/find), and that is one thing and reason why you don't hear many bands doing that kind of stuff, although, if memory serves me right, Jukka Tolonen/Tasavalan Presidenti would be somewhat similar, and indeed, Odyssey (Terje Rypdal's early work) was also very jazz oriented, although not quite within a format that we were familiar with ... the long stuff in those albums, is (for my ears) a bit towards the freedom and ability that Miles had ... who would be a very good influence in Europe and even early Jan Garbarek was going crazy as well as many others within the jazz scene that appears to have woken up in the very early 70's, of which a Perigio would be a part ... though I have not exactly studied/listened to a lot more "jazz/rock" blends out of Europe at that time.
Those two albums are very good, and worthy of a collector of progressive music for sure!
Yes I think I agree. I really love those four first Perigeo-albums, but I don't understand how they were supposedly "the only truly original and innovative musical expression in Italy in the 1970's". That's sort of belittling to a wonderfully vibrant scene (which consider to have plenty of originality and innovation to offer really) and kind of placing Perigeo in a league of their own where they don't belong - or need to be. It's great music all right, top notch. But they certainly sound like the music they've must have been listening to and were inspired by. I don't mind that at all. If art was all a mere innovation/originality-competition, Area would get an easy win over Perigeo. Goblin too. But that's not how I personally approach art though. I do care about the unique voice and personality in someone's art, but to me it's ok to operate within a certain, established "tradition" or style if you will. Like Perigeo did.
Enrico Merlin didnt write Perigeo are the only true original etc.
He write: together with Area,Demetrio Stratos soloist and Napoli Centrale, Perigeo were the only truly original and innovative musical expression in Italy in the 1970s - with the exception of Nino Rota, EnnioMorricone, Piero Umilianiand a few artists in the academic sphere.
It's a severe judgement towards Italian prog. But Italian music critics are often very harsh towards Italian music. Merlin is a jazz musician, he may underestimate Italian prog-rock. However, in his book, using 'innovation' as a selection criterion, he selected works by Perigeo, Area, Stratos, Napoli centrale and no other Italian prog works, considering them, in fact, not very innovative, too much inspired by English prog. He considers the jazz-rock-avant-garde scene of these three groups to be less tied to any English or American model, more original, unique.
I think he is right in saying that the jazz-rock-avant-garde scene in which these groups express themselves is less influenced by rock or international jazz.
This does not detract from the fact that Pfm and Banco and Orme and many others have also brought Italian characteristics to prog. Besides, I think that innovation is not the only criterion to be considered: Keith Emerson was certainly much studied by the keyboardists of Le Orme, Banco, and Pfm, he was their model: but for my taste, EL&P's records are less beautiful than those of Orme, Banco, and Pfm.
------------- Gaza: One year of Genocide with the complicity of the West
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: June 11 2023 at 23:50
^ Yes I see I took that claim out of context (it wasn't on purpose, just sloppy). I disagree with Mr. Merlin's approach and conclusions nevertheless. Area stand out and were indeed sonically unique. Napoli Centrale came late to the scene, and to me they come across as provincial jazz rock fusion. Instrumentally excellent, but occasionally ruined by awful vocals. I don't love them like I love Arti & Mestieri, Picchio Dal Pozzo or Perigeo. But that's all beside the point. Innovation, the way it seems to be discussed here, is reserved for the very few. For bands such as King Crimson, Magma, Can, Kraftwerk, Miles Davis, Zappa/Mothers, early Pink Floyd, Henry Cow & maybe Tangerine Dream...
-
Originality for me is a lot like an unmistakable identity. I hear more of that in early Le Orme, Banco and PFM than most italian fusion. The "big trio of italian prog" were all of course operating withing a newly developed tradition in rock music. But their "heart on your sleeve, undistanced and lightly ornamented italian-pastoral sound", made them sonically stand out and attractive to me. The three of them in their own differnt ways represented something else. It was instant love. Something yet unheard actually. Nothing tounge in cheek about any of them, and very differnt from ELP (a band I will never warm up to).
-Much like Ange being so unmistakably French and uniquely themselves. This make think of them as original - although not particularly innovative. Jean Luc Ponty or Pierre Moerlen's Gong feel more generic to me. They could come from anywhere in the western world. That's fine too, don't get me wrong, but I find them more faceless.
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: June 12 2023 at 01:09
Saperlipopette! wrote:
...
Originality for me is a lot like an unmistakable identity. I hear more of that in early Le Orme, Banco and PFM than most italian fusion. The "big trio of italian prog" were all of course operating withing a newly developed tradition in rock music. But their "heart on your sleeve, undistanced and lightly ornamented italian-pastoral sound", made them sonically stand out and attractive to me. The three of them in their own differnt ways represented something else. It was instant love. Something yet unheard actually. Nothing tounge in cheek about any of them, and very differnt from ELP (a band I will never warm up to).
...
Hi,
I have always thought that one of the important parts of "originality" is ... not quite listen to others, and stick with your own material and color it based on your own "grammar", and not someone else's. In my book, Le Orme, Banco and PFM did just that, specially in the early days. My take differs from most ... I specially think that Keith appreciated these 3 bands and KNEW they were not copying ELP, and were instead crating their own music ... and it was us, THE FANS, AND THE MEDIA, that brought over the comparisons, specially when PFM and Banco were released on the label that ELP created.
I do believe that, if anything, Keith appreciated them not "copying" what ELP did as so many other bands did! And bands like Banco, in so many ways, couldn't careless ... they had their work really well defined and showed it. Le Orme was fine until they thought (or the record company from heck thought) that they needed a guitar, and while Smogmagica is not bad, it is very different from the previous material. Now, we can see how PFM got stuck in the same rut.
Saperlipopette! wrote:
...
-Much like Ange being so unmistakably French and uniquely themselves. This make think of them as original - although not particularly innovative.
...
They are innovative in that it was very theatrical and was based on Jacques Brel with a large helping of Brecht/Weill mixed in. But, they, as well, were too well defined inside to do what they did, and they did not worry about anyone else's sound or music ... they did their thing, and their first 5, 6, heck even 10 albums show that individuality. And the fact that it is STILL appreciated as Christian Decamps is still churning out material, and damn ... IT IS GOOD ... but we don't look at it as "rock music" because it has the sound of a film thing, or some classical piece of music, instead of our "recognizable" sound of some (very simplistic!!!) rock format or other.
My only concern is that we keep bringing it all "back" to the rock'n'roll sound, or the "rock music" sound, and I think we need to grow out of that so we can find the collective soul of the work ...
Now, does this make Perigeo more interesting or not? Given the dates and when it came out, yes, it was really good and interesting, even if not (possibly) totally original ... the totality of the work was impressive, and that is something that many bands don't show, or have, and instead add on an easy song in a recognizable format, so we don't feel alienated! Sorry ... that does not impress me, and tends to drop the band off my radar a lot!
If PERIGEO did that TODAY, I am not sure that we would even bother thinking it was good or great ... I think we would list 100 different this or that which might have suggested they came from ... but when done in the early 70's that's a completely different story. But, at least, this one had it for several years!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: June 12 2023 at 04:14
Drew's review
A ground-breaking Jazz-Rock Fusion band from Italy that is new to me, thanks to PA compendium of so many things Italian, James Baldwin. This is the band's debut album. Apparently, several members of Perigeo would go on to historic acclaim in solo and other projects, including keyboard virtuoso Franco D'Andrea and saxophonist Claudio Fasoli as well as the band's leader, bassist/composer Giovanni Tommaso from Lucca in Tuscany.
1. "Posto di non so dove" (6:12) Listening to the first song of Azimet, I'm immediately blown away by the Demetrio Stratos-like vocals (a year before anybody'd heard of Demetrio Stratos), the brilliant Don Pullen-like piano, as well as the truly distinctive saxophone. The transition near the beginning of the fourth minute reminds me of early Premiata Forneria Marconi and Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso. I wonder if they (or Tommaso) had ever heard of the Giuseppi Logan Quartet. Beautiful! And so refreshingly new! (9.25/10)
2. "Grandangolo" (8:22) The second song seems to convey a feeling and stylistic approach that Eumir Deodato would make popular a year later in America with crème de la crème American jazz players--though there are also Tony Williams Lifetime feelings to it as well (despite the excellent funky bass). I'm am loving this rhythm section! Drummer Bruno Biriaco is quite impressive! The Fender Rhodes soloing is okay and the raunchy electric guitar is great but it's this rhythm section! They are so tight! Great smooth saxophone soloing in the sixth minute. (I love the engineering effects used on it.) And I love the quick descent into frenzied chaos for the final minute before pulling it together for the final coda! It's so Tony Williams like! (18/20)
3. "Aspettando il nuovo giorno" (3:55) The spacious third song opens with the nice Fender Rhodes and electric bass interplay. As sax joins in and then drummer's cymbal play, the keyboard moves to a repeating chord progression while electric guitar and sax solo over the gentle jazz. This part reminds me of both The Soft Machine and Miles Davis. Quite a pleasant listen. (9/10)
4. "Azimut" (7:18) Side Two's title songs seems to continue the spacious forms from the previous song, though this one a little more free jazz-like. Piano, bowed bass and tuned percussion sounds. This sounds so much like the opening of Return to Forever's "The Romantic Warrior"! (Did Chick steal it from Tommaso?) As the song develops further, it reminds me more of the works of Alice Coltrane and Pharoah Sanders in the late 1960s. Then, halfway through, the band pauses to come together for a structured full band presentation--one in which the presentation of the main melody is traded off among the instrumentalists in a kind of call-and-response rondo! Cool! Then Franco goes off on a wild piano solo while guitar and bass keep the vehicle on the road (with drummer providing some very entertaining accents and embellishments). Once again I am reminded of the jazzier post-Third work of The Soft Machine (as well as Ian Carr's post-Nucleus albums). (13.5/15)
5. "Un respiro" (1:30) The second song on Side Two opens with gentle Fender Rhodes chords supporting the twin melody-making of saxophone and Tommaso's reverbed vocalise. Very cool little interlude! (4.6667/5)
6. "36° parallelo" (9:51) The final songs breaks out sounding very much like a song from The Soft Machine. The dirty electric guitar takes the first lead over the steady drummer, Fender Rhodes chord play, and machine gun note-delivery of the bass. The rhythm section is really moving! And the melody lines are awesome! I especially like saxophonist Claudio Fasoli's sound and style. Impressive drum solo in the fourth minute. These guys can all play but the drummer, keyboardist, saxophonist, and bass player are all of the very highest caliber! A little too oriented toward the individual solos throughout the second half, which kind of turns me off, but excellent jazz. (17.875/20)
A-/five stars; an excellent jazz-rock fusion album--one of the best j-r fuse debut albums ever! A minor masterpiece of Jazz-Rock Fusion.
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My review
In 1972, Italian progressive rock was still in its infancy. There are the remnants of the beat, there are the first prog albums by Le Orme, Banco and PFM, and there is jazz-rock, which arrives with the debut of Perigeo.
Perigeo thus opened a third Italian road to prog, the most original, the least epigonic of English prog-rock, the road of jazz-rock-fusion, which would express its best in Naples with Perigeo itself and the later Napoli centrale, and in Milan with Area.
As Italian prog expert J. J. John writes, Perigeo debuts with a band that includes in its ranks musicians who are already well-tested: double bass player Giovanni Tommaso from Tuscany, who emigrated to New York when he was just 18 years old; and in NY he befriended the likes of Charles Mingus; pianist Franco D'Andrea from Alto Adige, who already boasted collaborations with top stars such as Gato Barbieri and the Modern Art Trio; the Roman drummer Bruno Biriaco, who had come back from a long experience in the beat; the Venetian saxophonist Claudio Fasoli, who had played for a long time on the Bologna jazz circuit; and last but not least, the group's foreigner Anthony Sidney, who was already a highly-rated guitarist at the time.
We are talking about the most competent Italian rock band of the entire progressive era - without wishing to devalue the technical abilities of Area and PFM.
The disc consists of three tracks on each side.
1. "Posto di non sai dove" (6:12) Begins with a hiss, avant-garde sounds stand out above an impressionist piano (almost new age, but new age hadn't arrived yet) until Tommaso's stentorian voice arrives. Tommas is the author of all the music and lyrics, as well as a fantastic bass player. Together with his singing, we can hear the expressionist phrases of the saxophone (Fasoli). Around 4 minutes the suspended and twilight atmosphere fades and a cacophonous instrumental piece arrives: we can hear the virtuosity of the pianist D'Andrea emerges from a sarabande of sounds while Tommaso repeats in the background words that count above all as onomatopoeic sounds. Music of high level. Rating 8.5
2. "Grandangolo" (8:22) It's an instrumental piece. It has a beginning marked by Tommaso's bass, and then a syncopated jazz rhythm strumming Sidney's guitar slashing. The rhythm section, with Tommaso on bass and drummer Bruno Biriaco, plays an astonishing jazz-funk pace, and electric piano and electric guitar soar above it. We are witness of a slow progression that gives its best in the ending with the sax solo and the swirling cacophonic spiral that concludes the piece. From this passage we understand what the musicologist and jazz guitarist Enrico Merlin wrote when he claims that Perigeo has found his own very personal way to jazz-rock, less linked to Miles Davis than many other contemporary groups (Weather report). This piece is a masterpiece. Rating 9.
3. "Waiting for the new day" (3:55) D'Andrea's electric piano opens this suffused piece before a very determined electric guitar takes over. In the background, the rhythmic section continues to give us pearls of music . It's a minor piece, which does not reach the dramatic intensity of the previous ones, and remains on a descriptive level. Rating 7+.
End of side A.
Side B opens with 4. "Azimut" (7:18), an avant-garde free jazz piece. Atmosphere of great pathos with electronic noises. The beginning is wonderful. Then, as in the case of the first song of side A, in the middle of the piece the music changes becoming more rhythmic and structured. Here I would have gladly heard Tommaso's singing, but Perigeo opts for a more jazzy solution and in fact instead of singing comes D'Andrea's liquid piano solo. Soft Machine, especially in the end, are just around the corner. This is the second masterpiece. Rating 9.
5. The short intermezzo of "Un respiro" shows a crepuscular atmosphere where we can hear Tommaso's vocalizations in the distance. Very evocative song. (No vote)
The final piece, "36' Parallelo", perhaps the most jazzy, is a continuous surprise. Each musician contributes to his best in providing a truly particular fusion, difficult to connect to any other music, which leaves the listenere enraptured; in the second part of the piece there are exquisitely jazz solos, first Briaco offers us a delicious solo but all in all it's a quite conventional jazz solo, while the D'Andrea's bass solo is a piece that goes from jazz to avant- garde beautifully and concludes Fasoli with his sax that manages to play in a way that doesn't even sound like a sax. Third masterpiece of the album. Rating 9+.
Fantastic album, full of musical ideas that transcend all genres and create a very original universe. The music from beginning to end remains on a truly remarkable level, and the songs as a whole make more than the individual pieces. It's hard to find criticism: the main one is the fragmentary nature of the pieces; the sound material is so varied, sublime and of great impact that it would have benefited if it had been developed in a more extensive and compact way, for example by linking the pieces together and making greater use of Tommaso's vocals.
In any case, this is a great masterpiece. Rating 9.5. Five stars.
------------- Gaza: One year of Genocide with the complicity of the West
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: June 12 2023 at 06:07
Nice to see love thrown Perigeo's way.
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: June 12 2023 at 06:14
BrufordFreak wrote:
telefunk wrote:
Will try to check out. But not availableon Bandcamp :-(
And please no theatrical Stratis vocals :-(
Really, Marko? You don't like theatricity in your prog?
I ADORE Demetrio's work--his efforts to take the human voice to its extremes and still control it are fascinating--even mesmerizing--to me.
You'll find the Perigeo albums on YouTube.
I love Demetrio's voice too, and his use of it as well. But for those who don't, there's none of his "theatricity" in Perigeo's music at all. The few minutes of singing there is on their debut (and only on their debut) is very different to what you can hear on Area's albums. It works more as added atmosphere and I find it quite haunting. If you don't pay too close attention you might mistake it for an instrument.
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: June 12 2023 at 07:38
jamesbaldwin wrote:
...
2. The second song seems to convey a feeling and stylistic approach that Eumir Deodato would make popular a year later in America with crème de la crème American jazz players--though there are also Tony Williams Lifetime feelings to it as well (despite the excellent funky bass).
...It's so Tony Williams like! (18/20)
3.This part reminds me of both The Soft Machine and Miles Davis. Quite a pleasant listen. (9/10)
4.This sounds so much like the opening of Return to Forever's "The Romantic Warrior"!
...
Once again I am reminded of the jazzier post-Third work of The Soft Machine (as well as Ian Carr's post-Nucleus albums). (13.5/15)
...
Hi,
As I stated before, there were bits and pieces that could easily be thought of as having come from what was around the LA jazz scene in the very early 70's. These weren't the only ones, but they certainly give us a nice example.
I, don't like to think, that PERIGEO, has to sound like someone else, or seem like they can not be themselves, and instead have to create something that is similar to other known bands, and in this case, well known bands, when no one knew or paid attention to PERIGEO. We were already into imports and a lot of the European scene in the early 70's and PERIGEO was not on the radar ... but it is now, not then!
My comments, are in "retrospect" they seem to have been inspired by a lot of things, but I'm not sure that any of them (specifically!!!) are responsible for what the band put together in their first 3 or 4 albums!
jamesbaldwin wrote:
...
less linked to Miles Davis than many other contemporary groups (Weather Report).
...
Here I would have gladly heard Tommaso's singing, but Perigeo opts for a more jazzy solution and in fact instead of singing comes D'Andrea's liquid piano solo. Soft Machine, especially in the end, are just around the corner.
...
Fantastic album, full of musical ideas that transcend all genres and create a very original universe. The music from beginning to end remains on a truly remarkable level, and the songs as a whole make more than the individual pieces.
...
I find the links to Miles, and Soft Machine are stretching things a bit. If we take Robert Wyatt at his word, (you must read his book!!!) then SM was impossible to copy since "it was different each and every time", and this is something that we (SPECIALLY HERE) do not like to discuss or appreciate, since we seem to think that "progressive" means a formatted piece of music with the specific details, including a stupid blue guitar, spinning organ, and a singer that is being more of an actor than a singer, very "anti-music" which was so huge at the time, coming after "anti-film" which was very important in the mid 60's and we refuse to discuss its influence in the arts in general.
Miles was not exactly known for repeating himself, either. So referencing him, is a bit of a hard/harsh sketch that is almost impossible to link, specially with the totality of PERIGIO's music in the first few albums.
I would also caution the idea that they wanted to do some "jazz/rock" or "fusion" ... which became better known terms LATER ... and basically did not apply to what PERIGIO did at the time. We may find moments that seem like this and that, but in essence, it is simply because our minds can not let go of that comparative nature ... and using it as a "rule" and not a point of interest. I find, as I mentioned, that it seemed to me TODAY to have bits and pieces that were similar to what I had heard in the very early 70's from the LA jazz scene, which was already influenced by rock music, and classical as well ... with Mangioni and others also being involved.
Again ... if this was a new band, TODAY, we would not be discussing it, because we would diss it as not original enough. But since it was early 70's it is indeed special in its own way, and we don't sit here and say that KC was influenced by this and that and the same for ELP ... we credit them for their originality a lot more than we do influences.
And it looks like we're taking that "originality" away from PERIGEO to make an effort at satisfying the tastes of an audience that can not listen to music without knowing a hundred things about it first ... you have to imagine you have never heard anything before, in order to enjoy something original ... otherwise, it is all a copy of a copy of a copy.
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Posted By: telefunk
Date Posted: June 12 2023 at 11:25
Love Deus Ex Machina from Bologna!. But vocals are iffy...