Oh Roger, Roger, Roger. When will you learn?
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Topic: Oh Roger, Roger, Roger. When will you learn?
Posted By: JD
Subject: Oh Roger, Roger, Roger. When will you learn?
Date Posted: September 25 2022 at 06:19
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*sigh*  https://canoe.com/entertainment/music/roger-waters-cancels-pink-floyd-concerts-in-poland-after-war-remarks/wcm/3dbc0752-8a4b-4158-a852-adf50becc8b5" rel="nofollow - https://canoe.com/entertainment/music/roger-waters-cancels-pink-floyd-concerts-in-poland-after-war-remarks/wcm/3dbc0752-8a4b-4158-a852-adf50becc8b5 ------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Replies:
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: September 25 2022 at 07:03
| https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-63026101" rel="nofollow - Roger Waters gigs in Poland cancelled amid Ukraine backlash - BBC News |
Posted By: wiz_d_kidd
Date Posted: September 25 2022 at 07:46
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I lost all respect for Roger Waters when he couldn't refrain from allowing his acerbic political and social viewpoints infiltrate his music. It destroyed Pink Floyd, at least for me, beginning with Animals. ------------- “I don’t like country music, but I don’t mean to denigrate those who do. And for those who like country music, denigrate means to ‘put down.'” – Bob Newhart |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: September 25 2022 at 08:31
Interesting. I am not a fan of censorship. No matter what we think of Waters, he has a right to his opinion and there is far too much cancelling of people because the establishment don't agree with certain views. Having said all of that, my opinion on the matter is one of great shame. As a young man, Animals, The Wall, and The Final Cut were a huge influence on me, the former especially setting my personal political journey agenda for many years. Regrettably, I just feel that he has grown into an old tit, and this is regrettable. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Jared wrote:Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: September 25 2022 at 08:43
Hi, Roger has the right to say it ... but he has become totally senseless when it comes to making sense and knowing what to say and where. His bit about Ukraine, is in a lot of ways not cool at all, and simply shows someone who is no longer in tune with the pulse of the world out there ... that his own politics are now somewhat sided with those of commercial dictators in search for mor money and loot ... and for this, I have not bought much of anything of his and the last was the disappointing CA IRA, which badly needed a guitar, and some better instrumentation, instead of the fake classical style and totally ... off the mark lyrics ... ! He fights for "freedom in one piece and then turns around in another! It just seems hypocritical to me, and completely out of touch! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: September 25 2022 at 09:00
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Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: September 25 2022 at 12:02
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I love the ethics that Roger Waters has put into his craft as a musician - the fact that his musical inspiration has waned does not depend on his political views but on the fact that it is physiological as he ages. I especially appreciate Waters' (and Brian Eno's) commitment to the BDS campaign against Israeli settlements. About Syria, Waters has, as always, quite right the criticisms to be made of the West, but probably, according to my information, he has underrated the Syrian and Russian crimes. And even in the case of this war against Ukraine, Waters, unsurprisingly, tends to focus on criticism of the West rather than criticism of Russia.
------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |
Posted By: gents
Date Posted: September 25 2022 at 13:30
| Reading all that I like more and more Waters and I think we need more people like that specially if someone is right. And I must tell you people that Waters is very right. And who doesn't see that as well, there is no hope for him. That's why he is not playing in Poland. Because of truth.....and thats what people are afraid of.....truth |
Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: September 25 2022 at 14:23
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^ Someone who uses the word "truth" to vent an opinion can never be trusted. ------------- The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: September 25 2022 at 14:24
"And I must tell you people that Waters is very right". Really?? If you can tell me HOW he's right, I'd be very interested to know. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 25 2022 at 14:34
The former USSR's main and only daily, PRAVDA seemingly still has an audience. FYI Pravda means Truth   ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 25 2022 at 14:35
He is not right, he is definitely left....and wealthy to boot.
 “Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Aurelius" rel="nofollow - )" .------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: September 25 2022 at 15:55
| https://genius.com/26482748/Pink-floyd-us-and-them/And-who-knows-which-is-which-and-who-is-who" rel="nofollow - |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 25 2022 at 16:25
The only time I have disagree with Ol'Rog in the XXIst C, is when he backed up the English fox hunts (Hanging on quiet desperation is the english way) He's absolutely right about NATO being a toxic affair But Putin is an idiot for having dived in head first in this blatant provocation. Boycotting Poland and Hungary is about as sane and safe there is, despite the latter being +/- less on Russia's side (Orban is about as idiotic as Erdogan). Wish that a Polexit and Hungarexit be organized ASAP. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: September 25 2022 at 17:10
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It always hurts me to see fellow left wingers siding with somebody like Putin. WTF? There are good reasons to criticise NATO and the Americans, but it should be obvious that Putin is far worse according to what should be left values (and he's admired by fascists and authoritarians all over the world). Nothing of what the man stands for and what his country does should appeal to us. It seems quite clear to me that anti-American/NATO preconceptions lead to a one-sided view that isn't really interested in what goes on in Russia or what the Russians do elsewhere but focuses only on what seems to be wrong on the Western side, and whatever is done against NATO then seems to be justified, regardless of who does it and why, and what the consequences are. Sad! I do think by the way that Roger honestly stands for what he believes in, and this is his right. He should better analyse what is going on though.
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Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 25 2022 at 19:35
Why not focus now on Italy , soon to have unacceptable government ? Perhaps if there would be only Brussels ruling and no more elections, things would be better? sounds very reich-ish to me ..... ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: Hugh Manatee
Date Posted: September 25 2022 at 22:37
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I don't know if Waters is necessarily right wing or left wing. At this stage I think he is just a cantankerous old bugger who is very upset that the world isn't the way he would want it to be, particularly after all the finger wagging he's done over the course of his recording career. ------------- I should have been a pair of ragged claws Scuttling across the floors of uncertain seas |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: September 25 2022 at 23:53
^ I'm with Sean. Unfortunately today my Country has started following the path of Hungary and Poland. I'm undecided about migrating or taking a gun. ------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 26 2022 at 03:07
You may want to do that yourself, instead of listening only to Western Nato-ized propaganda. Seriously analyzing what Waters says, rather than dismiss it as old-man-ramblings. Who is on Putin's side??   Not me!! The I'm just against the toxic side of an organization based in Brussels (I cross path with some of them militaries every day - at the supermarket, for ex) that is brewing trouble and creating enemies for the last two decades in order to survive and justify its existence.... It's very unwise to "attack" Russia (or bait it like NATO did), strategy-wise for the next few centuries, because of the permanent troubles that will be brewing from it but also an ecological and economical catastrophe in terms of the planet's survival. Ukraine is at least guilty of creating the problems in Crimea and Donbass, by doing everything to suppress and repress its Russian minorities since 2009 (look it up if you don't believe me). The worst part is that the same thing is Happening inside NATO and the EC, in Latvia, where the Russian almost-majority is being denied its culture and language. They're becoming second-class citizens in the country where they're born. Yet no-one in the west speaks of these problems, content to look the other way, not seeing these ethnic-cleansing (peacefully-done, though) matters. Furthermore, we should be very careful about how Russia could/will crumble down.... An Arsehole like Putin is necessary to keep it the way it was, even if we don't like it. The last thing we all want is for extreme-east Siberia (Kamchatka & Yakutia) to fall between the greedy paws of the Chinese, who are already invading it (immigration +/- 0.5M/year & colonization of the Russian arctic coast). Those mostly un-tapped natural reserves cannot fall into their grubby hands. Indeed, between the two Russian cities of Irkutsk and Vladivostok, there are hundred of "tribes" that would face extinction like the Ouïgours and Tibetans, under the Han regime (just like the Hans are dominating the Formosa original tribes in Taiwan). Not even mentioning the ores and wildlife of the vastly & mostly empty lands. If you ask a Yakut whether he prefers the Russians or the Hans, no doubt he will say the former. . ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 26 2022 at 03:28
 are you writing in small print because you know you're saying something relatively (let's stay polite and not say  Orban is a near-fascist totalitarian: repressing opposition and sexual minorities and other liberties (like Erdogan in Turkey or like Poland is) and he's modified the country's constitution so he stays in power (like Putin & Erdogan or the Chinese communist party). Poland's regime is following suit. And so is Italy, since yesterday.  And your stubborn relentlessness attacks on Verhofstad (a liberal-capitalist) is really weird . Furthermore, he's been mostly out of the public's eye for nearly a decade. You should be attacking his Belgian heir, Charles Michel (the European council president, who is clearly a US/NATO puppet - which Verhofstadt wasn't) and Ursula sucking NATO dicks.The very same USA-dominated toxic NATO that is currently demolishing the European aeronautical industry by forcing onto Germany, Benelux and others the horrible F-35, a piece of crap that is still unable to fly without crashing. Planes that will be grounded by a satellite, if the US don't want them to be used. Wake-up dude!!! . . ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: September 26 2022 at 03:41
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I'm not a moderator by the way but chances are they're not going to tolerate a new Putin/Ukraine thread, and for at least understandable (if not good) reasons. For the moment I just say @Sean Trane that I know the Latvian situation pretty well. Not sure what percentage you count as "almost majority" but 24.2% (Russians in Latvia according to Wikipedia) is not enough in my books. Furthermore many of these were settled in Latvia during Soviet times with the aim of creating a sizeable population group there to control the Latvians. Understandable then that they are looked at suspiciously by the Lativians from the time of independence and surely now when Russia is using the argument of suppressed Russian minorities to start wars. And BTW I was of course not attacking you for supposedly being on Putin's side but rather good old Roger for knowingly making statements that help Putin's case. (To come back to the original topic.) I do grant you and him that some of this is correct (the situation is complicated), but saying this without criticising Putin for starting a war, well...
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Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 26 2022 at 04:48
I do not understand why a supremely cultured and uber civilized person like you needs to resort to insulting me. I do not recall showing any disrespect at all but you don't like being challenged. I am wide awake , I am not a dude. And certainly not stupid. You have never been to Hungary and YOU do not know what goes on there . Stubborn and relentless attacks on Verhofstadt ? I mentioned him once. Hungary is a near fascist state? Is the current Hungarian government FAR-RIGHT? Secret police arresting people on sight on empty streets of fear? Where everyone whispers and looks the other way? Where nighttime knocks on the door happen and people are whisked away, never to be seen again? Is this what you are describing? And how long has this been going on? Lastly, in response to my sleeping patterns : " Quand je me regarde, je me désole. Quand je me compare aux autres, je me console” When I look in the mirror, I worry. When I compare myself to others, I am reassured. ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: Archisorcerus
Date Posted: September 26 2022 at 04:50
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Criticising Putin for starting the war is like criticising a football (soccer) coach for what he does in a game. Putin clearly said that he/they had been left no other option. We, as publics and not politicians, cannot know the situations and the conditions as much as the politicians do. So, it is extremely pretentious to claim to know what to do was better for a politician as folks (that is who we are). The USA had claimed that Putin would (past tense of will, not an imaginary situation) attack Ukraine, and they predicted it correctly. Hey just kidding! They had known that Russia would attack Ukraine AS THEY (the USA) CAUSED IT by sparing them no other option. The US politics is quite something. Don't get surprised if we (Turkey) fight Greece in the near future. By the help of the USA, Greece, for quite some time, have been arming the legally-must-be-neutral/unarmed islands that are very very close to us, with the weapons they get from the USA. I support neither Putin, nor Erdoğan. But, the situations like this are not that "simple", as many people here are trying to make them out to be. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 26 2022 at 05:26
let's stay serious shall we?  Yes, he fell into a NATO trap, but he had the choice of not stepping into it. NATO has been after Putin since only Putin managed to stop the killings in Syria, making the US look like fools. Without Russian troops committing their usual massacres & crimes, they'd still be killing and IS would still be alive (not that it's actually dead). Sure arsehole-in-chief Bachar El Assad is still there, but at least IS is not - we could've thanked Vlado, instead of booby-trapping situation like Donbass.
Thomas, Sorry, I certainly not meant to insult you, but just making you realize a few things out that obviously escapes you. Yes, Orban is as close as it gets to extreme right (so is Poland, BTW). Hungary suppresses liberty of speech and press. The next step to uber-conservatism and imposing their "values" to everyone is very "reich-ish" (your words)  BTW, I was in Hungary for a visit to a scientific institute as part of my job. But that was well before Orban (some 15 years ago)and the symposium was held on the shores of Lake Balaton (beautiful place, BTW  )And yes, you are a dude, like I am one and so are my friends  (and my GF is a dudette) j'aime bien ton dicton... c'est très vrai  (pour moi aussi).
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Archisorcerus
Date Posted: September 26 2022 at 05:34
I'm quite serious actually. And my main point was that the politicians have a FAR BETTER grasp of the situations than you and I. I don't want to call you "pretentious", but automatically you appear so, regarding my main point. We are folks, not politicians. Not being spoon-fed by the media and researching all kinds of sources still renders us folks. I'm pretty certain that Putin knows what happened and had happened far better than us. Surely, he could have chosen not to fight. But what if that would have threatened their very existence? What if the NATO was threatening their very existence? |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 26 2022 at 05:39
Well, you are mistaken, then. “Describing the media market as being fully dominated by the governing party gives a very incomplete view of the story. The Hungarian media landscape has remained pluralistic, critical voices remain influential, and the spectrum of published political opinion remains broad. The biggest TV channel, German-owned RTL, is critical of the government. So is the biggest daily tabloid, Blikk, owned by Swiss publishing house Ringier, whose online edition ranks among the top four in digital ratings on most days. The biggest political weekly magazine is independent Hvg. The biggest political broadsheet is left-wing Népszava. Of the four biggest news portals—apart from Blikk—two are very critical of the government (24.hu and Telex.hu). Index.hu, under its new owners, has become more government-friendly, but not a propaganda instrument. Only Origo.hu is a decidedly pro-government news portal. Polls show that media consumers read conservative and liberal or left-leaning publications in equal proportions, meaning that Hungarians want to get the full picture by looking at both sides of any story. It also means that meaningful media pluralism still exists. All told, public attitudes in Hungary would not tolerate the abolition of free media. The country that suffered four decades of communism will not allow free speech to be suppressed.” . Orban is not FAR RIGHT - Jobbik and Mi Hazank are the 2 two parties that espouse those principles. ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 26 2022 at 05:44
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What I find distressing is that the PLANET is in a serious danger, a worsening global threat of nuclear annihilation, emanating from a real dictator and all you activists are still busy bullying a small country that has voted 5 times for a government of their choice. The real reasons for this choice is clear: 2 million Budapesters voting against Fidesz and 8 million in the rest of the country voting for continuity. Had the well-funded by Soros opposition as well as Western leftist organizations (NGOs) put more emphasis on the rural vote , the opposition would have won the election. There is nothing inherently wrong with a Conservative party. Saying that Hungary is a dictatorship is plainly false and slanderous. But because he has won so often, the onus is that it’s authoritarian . Merkel wasn’t authoritarian! All EU /Nato countries are constitutional governments , left or right. Comparing Hungary to Belarus or Russia is plain false. Except Orban has been successful in getting the votes. A day before the April 3 elections , external and internal polls showed a possible opposition victory. There is the proof of it being fair. Whether one likes the result or not …… ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: September 26 2022 at 07:02
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Ok guys, before this thread is locked by the admins (I suppose they'll do before it takes a bad path) let me add something: Sean has mentioned Erdogan (I'm used to call him Merdogan from the Italian word for sh*t). I'd like to spend few words about what the US, Nato and their allies have let him do to the Kurds only because of geopolitical opportunity. Let me mention how he uses refugees and migrants to obtain money from the EU. The old Rog is not totally wrong, there are nazis in Donbass and Zel didn't do anything to stop them. I disagree with Rog on one thing only: the world should give a sever lesson to Putin, otherwise he would think to be allowed to restore the Russian imperialism, so that Georgia, Moldova may be invaded as he did with Ukraine. One more word about Lukashenko, who is also known for making money with children adoptions from orphanages, and I mention adoptons only, because I don't have clues of worse things. Apart of that, I support Rog's positions about Palestine (and I have Jew relatives). @Tszirmay: Some Adolf Hitler actually became Chancellor after being elected to the German parliament for the second time. Being appointed chairman after democratic elections doesn't make you a democrat. Orban is nothing but a fascist, elected or not. ------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: September 26 2022 at 07:12
Hitler only had a (thin) majority for a government after the March 1933 elections after a widespread campaign of violence of his SA against political opponents, and had pretty much all leaders and candidates of the communist party arrested, following the fire in the Reichstag. This election was about as democratic as Putin's referenda in Donbass, Kherson, and Zaporizhzhia.
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Posted By: Archisorcerus
Date Posted: September 26 2022 at 07:14
Let me mention, having refugees is TERRIBLE for our country. And how the Europe ONLY take the civilised and technically apt and educated ones, and we get the mostly horrendous troglodytes. Believe me, this is a lucrative deal for you (Europe). Our "persona non grata" Erdoğan and his minions profit from here too. Not only they get richer and richer for the reason you mentioned, but also those immigrants are gonna vote for Erdoğan and his party. Believe me. Only Erdoğan and Europe benefit from this deal. You (Europe) even encourage us to have more immigrants, while you (Europe) remain as pristine as possible I'll not talk about the Kurdish issue, as you basically have NO CLUE about the real issues about that, just like most of the people from Europe and the Anglophone world. Its roots go back to the ancient times. It has perhaps more than 4.000 years of history. I don't know about you, Italians; but the English love to call those Kurdish terrorists the "freedom fighters"; and just look what they did to the Irish and their present "relationship". We have Irish neighbours here and I talk to them a lot. So, I know what I'm talking about. |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: September 26 2022 at 08:05
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Re nazis in Ukraine: I'm a member of an anti-nazi group in the US, we try to eradicate nazi groups through court action that bankrupts them. My ex-wife and best friend is a Jewish political activist who lived in Germany for a while. nazi groups are in almost every country in the world, there are many nazi groups in Russia and US too. Putin is very popular with the white supremacists in the US, the white supremacists in the US are on the side of Russia, not Ukraine. That is no accident or coincidence. |
Posted By: Deadwing
Date Posted: September 26 2022 at 08:22
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Roger Waters is incredibly stupid and dumb with his politics stances. He's basically "everything that is bad for usa = good", so, of course, he would fall in the Putin rabbit-hole, which seems to be a point of union for far-left and far-right fanatics, which is the same thing with a different facade, imho. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: September 26 2022 at 08:32
Hi, I was thinking that he is doing what some "KAG" folks are doing and saying ... anything to get people excited and riled up! It gets attention, and gets him relevant, instead of ... long gone in the annals of rock'n'roll nothingness! It's the media factor, that we do not want to trust and learn about that makes this all ... so strange! But in a "free world" anything that can be said is being said and has been said! The problem is, we believe it since so many "big names" and "famous" people do so, and we are not big enough (or especially united!) to counter it! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: September 26 2022 at 09:56
I agree completely with my compatriot (funny word, compatriot, for someone like me who does not believe in the concept of homeland). There is only one point I would like to make. What does it mean to "give Putin a sever lesson"? The question is not so simple. Putin is not a schoolboy to be put in detention. Putin holds atomic arsenal, gas, oil and grain on which the European economy depends. Even now, Europe is about to go into an economic recession, increased poverty, energy crisis, precisely because of the sanctions given to Putin. And Putin is about to annex pieces of Ukraine, which he is ready to defend even with the atomic arsenal. In poor words, World War III has already begun, for now fought at low intensity and only locally. If we want (subject: we, the West) to defeat Putin completely we must prepare for a nuclear scenario, where Ukraine could be destroyed and where the economy and the environment and European health care could lead to consequences never seen on our continent since 1945. And once Putin is defeated, Russia could end up in chaos, could disintegrate, with unpredictable consequences. Don't you think Putin's punishment is the one already in place? In Russia, his consensus is at an all-time low, people are fleeing, the economy is in crisis, and his war of invasion has been self-limited to the border areas. In short, Russia is in such bad shape that the dream of a new imperialism is now completely impractical. I would add: I hope that on this site we can get back to talking about politics without threads being closed. In my opinion, the administrators should moderate the posts by letting all political opinions go free, deleting only the posts that offend the writer, without closing anything. Otherwise what happens is that the one who insults has great power: he gets into a thread, starts saying offensive things, and gets it closed. This cannot be the solution. Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version) ------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 26 2022 at 11:20
Wow, Thomas, I can't help you much other than pointing out a few things, but I'm probably tickling your magyarism (though I thought you were polish) too far. If you don't see it, I can't help you further. Just about three weeks ago, Orban announced that he was closing his borders (once more >>> he was the first to rebuild a wall in Europe in 2015) and refusing any newcomers, because he wanted to "preserve the magyar culture and its uniqueness".  Doesn't that sound very nauseating (like reich-ish ot aryanist)?  Sure, he's not professing (yet) the superiority of magyar people, but isn't that +/- fascist (at least uber-conservatism). How long before he claims Transylvania as a hungarian territory? Ditto for some parts of Vojvodina in the north of Serbia?  Sooooo, yeah, Orban has won elections (most of them stained with irregularities), but does that make it right in a democracy? Tickling your people in their nationalism was done in 33 in a city called Berlin, with the results we all know. The only intelligent (sort of, anyways) thing Orban has done is not to boycott russian gaz & oil. Maybe the magyars will have an easier winter than most other countries on the continent. ======================== How times have changed... When I think that Hungary got in trouble in 2004 (just after joining the EC) for wanting to call all tzigans/roms as hungarians. Of course they (Hungary) got into trouble because that would've made hundreds of roms tribes as far as i India "europeans". That was generous... today, pettiness rules (all over europe). ================== whether one likes it or not, but the old feuds in eastern europe are picking up where they left off once the soviets liberated/invaded these regions. It's almost regrettable that the Warsaw pact disappeared, outside a few internal invasions (56 & 68)  , because of the cold-war Europe has had 80 years (well, let's not count ex-yugoslavia in the 90's) of peace for the first time in thousands of years. Not that the western side is doing it better, but far-right almost making it in France, Sweden, Italy ) - not mentionning secessionsit movements ala Catalunia or Corsica (or Scotland)... The whole continent is unfortunately going into intestinal wars area within the next decades. Ukraine wanting to get rid of the russian past and minorities, Serbs attacking other ex-yugo republics because they escape Belgrade's authority, etc... . ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 26 2022 at 13:20
I did my thesis on the NSDAP, and as an addendum, the similarities between Global Socialism and National Socialism. This was in 1975 . I have researched to the fullest. Your "opinion" is noted. ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 26 2022 at 13:25
I am obviously not worthy of your incredible on hand knowledge but I of course thought you were Dutch (A another fine bastion of "democracy" . Anyways, I have been fighting this lost MOR centrist mindset and I get slammed by both sides for being (get this ...ignorant) I have been trained at a young age to be weary of extremist behaviour and rebellious towards blindly obeying any politician or fad slogan , as history has proven over and over that most if not all politicians are slippery by definition: staying in power is more important than achieving power. All are guilty of steering wherever the wind blows. So I question not only their rhetoric but also that of their opponents , distrusting their true intentions comes very naturally. I weigh all arguments, look for numbers and facts , then I apply my own rationale, independent of any Politburo . I will not be subverted, indoctrinated, converted or perverted by distortion, endless criticism, psychological warfare of words and Marxist-Leninist dystopia. On the other side, I will not bend to uncompromising and outdated failures like the fascist/Nazi ideology and NWO megalomania with the new current Global Social Justice Warrior nihilism claiming to be be liberal when in fact they are the culture fascists. If you don"t like a government , that is fine , that is why there are elections. I will not bother to respond to those who say only one sides lies, distorts and manipulates....Please... ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 26 2022 at 13:26
BTW , I don't need your HELP. I never liked you from day one ,16 years ago....You are too pushy, way too opinionated and often rude, to my liking. I do love the Red Devils though
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 26 2022 at 14:04
Every time I fall into the trap. the PA political forums are one sided against everybody (i doubt the few fascists left listen to prog). Uselessly contrarian and endlessly obstinate, the main culprits don't even bother responding to any fact that challenges their opinions. Last bell for me.  ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 26 2022 at 14:13
Correct, Hindenburg offered him (most reluctantly and perhaps via blackmail through his son) the Chancellorship , with the hope that von Papen and Hugenberg would be able to rein him in. Not quite. Then later Hindenburg died. ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: gents
Date Posted: September 26 2022 at 15:34
| I'm not for Putin and agree what Sean says. Someone who is saying for 15 years not to put nato near him should be considered seriously. Come on it's Russia. Someone said that Russia is too big and needs to be smaller. WTF? What do you care. What kind of a statement is that. What would you do if your neighbour is putting rockets in his backyard and you telling him not to for 15 years. Could Putin made different choice? Maybe yes maybe no. The things went too far and thats what exactly they wanted. That Zelensky is a klown who is just doing his job. Unfortunatelly it's always the poor people who pay the price. The world is going in wrong way for very long time now and it's time for that to change. Unfortunatelly and probably with big, big and big casualties. |
Posted By: Gordy
Date Posted: September 28 2022 at 12:55
Lots of remarkably awful takes on this thread attacking Roger from the right, and I simply don't have the time and energy to refute them, but Mr. Szirmay's comment right here is a bona fide anti-Semitic trope, as the far-right loves to use the 92-year-old Holocaust survivor as their avatar for all their various imagined nefarious global Jewish schemes.
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Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 28 2022 at 16:39
Really, I am a Far Rightwing now? Maybe a Nazi ? Funny, I did do my thesis on the NSDAP but not out of admiration but loathing, as well as attacking the Stalinist left, making me a direct-democracy centrist since 1972 when I witnessed it in Switzerland . Roger has called Netanyahu a Nazi, fascist ultranationalist etc...does that make Waters anti-semitic? Do answer that, please ! 1- Soros is persona non grata in Israel, he is not a zionist and quite reviled for his dubious role during WW2. 2- I cannot be anti-semitic as I was married to Jewish woman for 37 years, converting to Judaism in Israel where I got married and my 5 children /9 grand children are devout Jews. Soros has been funding the leftist political parties in Europe since time immemorial. His wealth comes from chaos (by his own admittance, see 60 minutes interview on line). Quick question for you: Only the right media lies, the left is squeaky clean? Really? Same BS from two sides of the same coin. I promised not to reply but your jumping to easy , convenient conclusions about my character, well, that is unacceptable. You should have asked me for a proper explanation of my comment, that is what civilized debate-oriented DEMOCRATS do. In polarized America, you have only 2 political options, so it's EITHER OR. Well there is a third and many many more options. Your stand reflects that in your world ,there are only 2 colours in the universe, how sad.... ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: September 29 2022 at 06:58
On the subject of anti-Semitism, real or alleged (almost always alleged, in my experience), there is much to be said. You ask whether we can consider Roger Waters an anti-Semite since he speaks of Netanyau as a fascist. Your question is rhetorical. But actually, the answer for many Israeli Jews and also for many European (and perhaps American) Diaspora Jews is yes. Add to that the fact that Roger Waters advocates a music boycott of Israel and the BDS campaign: Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions, and the accusations of anti-Semitism multiply. In Italy, if you speak out openly in favor of BDS many people, Jewish and otherwise, call you an anti-Semite and cite Jewish stores closed by fascism if you propose to boycott them (actually it would be boycotting products from Israeli colonies, not Jewish stores, but no one pays attention to these essential distinctions). In other words, you are accused of wanting to discriminate against Jews, and you are compared to fascists. Thus, those who support Waters' battles are considered anti-Semites, and the Jewish community suggests to the Anti-Semitism Oversight Committee each year a list (a kind of proscription list) of people suspected of anti-Semitism or anti-Zionism, deliberately making the two terms equivalent. In England, Corbyn's Labour lost many votes in the election because the chief rabbi accused all of Labour and Corbyn himself of being anti-Semitic, and this only because Corbyn has always denounced Israeli repression of the fundamental rights of Palestinians. In short, it is' obvious to any right-thinking person that Waters and Corbyn are not anti-Semites. Yet the campaign to pass off every person critical of Israel as anti-Semitic is very strong and runs from right to left (it is done by Jews and non-Jews alike) in Europe. Who benefits from this campaign? Of course, Israel. Ultimately, the charge of anti-Semitism has completely lost its initial semantic value and is now used, almost invariably, as a political category. ------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: September 29 2022 at 08:01
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Hi, I hope they lock this thread, and the other about Roger Waters. The whole thing is getting worse, and it is not something that helps "progressive music" or its artistry, when people are discussing politics and all the crap around it! Sorry ... this thread is out of line, and has been from the start, and I wish that it had been locked sooner to prevent some of the stuff posted! I'm not into "politics" ... I'm into the music! Even though those come together often, in general, I tend to separate myself from those things. I have no issues with Roger doing Radio Kaos (I was there and saw the crap and he was right on the mark) ... but I got tired when he tried to milk THE WALL for his own stuff with a new album and later I enjoyed another album or two, but his ability to keep his mouth shut, or simply stick to the music has gone out of control in the last 25 years, and needed to stop, not to mention his arguments with DG and the band's management especially when he is taking home millions each and every year as it is! Sorry Roger, you meant something a while back ... you are now a fat goon with nothing to do or write about except anything you want to complaint about. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: October 04 2022 at 12:30
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You might find this story interesting: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63136589" rel="nofollow - Ukraine war: Crimea beauty queen fined over song - BBC News You'll see the PF connection toward the end; it's obvious that Dave & Rog have different ways of going about things...
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Posted By: JD
Date Posted: October 04 2022 at 18:56
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Maybe Roger better speak to Phil, Tony and Mike so he understands what he's risking ! https://www.msn.com/en-ca/music/news/will-roger-waters-explosive-new-comments-about-israel-and-ukraine-sink-a-500-million-pink-floyd-catalog-sale/ar-AA12ALAN?cvid=2b10242d13b54d568c7e66e9b7b1b564" rel="nofollow - https://www.msn.com/en-ca/music/news/will-roger-waters-explosive-new-comments-about-israel-and-ukraine-sink-a-500-million-pink-floyd-catalog-sale/ar-AA12ALAN?cvid=2b10242d13b54d568c7e66e9b7b1b564
------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: October 04 2022 at 21:31
| ^ So apparently Roger Waters has decided to live in what he calls the most evil country in the world. Nice to back up your words with actions. |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: October 05 2022 at 00:26
It is strange, really strange. Waters also ought to consider that his freedom to utter such tripe would be severely curtailed in the paradise that is Putin’s Russia, where if you speak out you are more likely to be thrown out of a tenth floor window - oh, sorry, become the victim of an “unexplained incident”. I used to worship Waters as a youngster. Now he simply comes across as a daft old git. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: geekfreak
Date Posted: October 05 2022 at 00:41
He’s definitely losing is credible with me over the trivial amount of utter nonsense he spouts out. For myself it started with the sacking of RW. During the recording of the Wall album. I totally agree with you on Purim’s Russia ------------- Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake." Music Is Live Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed. Keep Calm And Listen To The Music… < |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: October 05 2022 at 13:54
Love that descriptor...."daft old git" . Clearly not sure what it means but I like how it rolls off the lips nice and easy . I've never worshiped his heiness Waters, talented for sure.... -------------   
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Posted By: JD
Date Posted: October 06 2022 at 05:15
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https://canoe.com/entertainment/celebrity/roger-waters-says-hes-on-a-kill-list-after-putins-invasion-of-ukraine/wcm/7723fcf2-d226-486d-824f-50abd6881f04" rel="nofollow - https://canoe.com/entertainment/celebrity/roger-waters-says-hes-on-a-kill-list-after-putins-invasion-of-ukraine/wcm/7723fcf2-d226-486d-824f-50abd6881f04
------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: October 10 2022 at 02:31
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Joe Rogan interviewed Roger a few days ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BcKrk5tFnE" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BcKrk5tFnE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-B6-iYDHPs" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-B6-iYDHPs ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: November 21 2022 at 07:58
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https://www.msn.com/en-ca/music/news/roger-waters-drops-ominous-new-version-of-pink-floyd-classic-comfortably-numb/ar-AA14lTHT?cvid=bf59e5cadaf94a4fa39432eef6cb4e51" rel="nofollow - https://www.msn.com/en-ca/music/news/roger-waters-drops-ominous-new-version-of-pink-floyd-classic-comfortably-numb/ar-AA14lTHT?cvid=bf59e5cadaf94a4fa39432eef6cb4e51
------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |