"classic" jazz rock-fusion
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=128841
Printed Date: November 26 2024 at 10:44
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Topic: "classic" jazz rock-fusion
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Subject: "classic" jazz rock-fusion
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 11:46
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I'm procrastinating and dug up 24 of the most profilic jazzrockers of the golden era to make a poll. For no real reason. Polls can make for interesting discussions. About a dozen of these aren't personal favorites of mine, but seemed essential in one way or another. I could easily have made a totally different poll. Got a favorite here - or another favorite not here - or no favorite anywhere? Did I forget something or someone essential? Should I have left out bnads placed elsewhere on PA? Let me know. Write something. |
Replies:
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 12:05
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Did Allan Holdswoth's solo material not make the cut because his first official release, I.O.U, was 1982? He is by far my favorite, but not prolific perhaps? Anyway, Pat Metheny is my runner up. Dig his work, especially when he collaborated with Lyle Mays. |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 12:15
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That's a mighty fine list, I have to go with that Zappa set just ahead of Soft Machine, Pekka, Herbie & Miles. Isn't Zao the jazzy side of Zeuhl? ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 12:21
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On first glance...about 2/3 of the list above.  But IF I had to choose just one, I'd have to give my nod to Santana. With Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea/Return To Forever, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Jean-Luc Ponty & Brand X breathing down their necks.------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 12:48
MILES!    ------------- "Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent." Charles Bukowski |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 12:50
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Caravan (UK)
- In The Land of Grey and Pink (1971) Catapilla (UK)
- Catapilla (1971) Miles Davis (USA) - Bitches Brew (1970) Embryo (D) - We
Keep On (1973) Fermáta
(TCH) - Pieseň z Hôľ (1977) Gong (F)
- Shamal (1975) The
“Gunesh” Ensemble (USSR) - Looking At The Earth (1984) Herbie Hancock (USA) - Man-Child (1975) Iman,
Califato Independiente (ESP) - Iman, Califato Independiente (1978) Khan (UK)
- Space Shanty (1972) Made In
Sweden (S) - "Where Do We Begin" (1976) Mahavishnu
Orchestra (USA) - Birds of Fire (1973) Czesław
Niemen (PL) - Niemen Aerolit (1975) Osibisa (Africa)
- Osibisa (1971) Jean-Luc
Ponty (F) - Upon the Wings of Music (1975) Return to
Forever (USA) - Where Have I Known You Before (1974) Santana (USA) - Caravanserai (1972) SBB (PL) - 2:
Nowy Horyzont (1975) Secret
Oyster (DK) - Sea Sun (1974) The Soft Machine (UK) - The Soft Machine (1968) Weather
Report (USA) - Black Market (1976) Wigwam
(FIN) - Being (1974) Frank Zappa (USA) - Hot Rats (1969) I'm fond/very fond of all of these albums! ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Neu!mann
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 13:06
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Miles, of course. ------------- "we can change the world without anyone noticing the difference" - Franco Falsini |
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 13:15
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From the list, Pat Metheny is the greatest and my favorite. His productivity and variety of styles, sounds and collaborators is unsurpassed. The most amazing/transformational albums came from Tony Williams' Lifetime (Emergency!), John McLaughlin (Devotion), Mahavishnu Orchestra (The Inner Mounting Flame), and Area (Crac!). ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 13:21
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Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 13:25
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Softs for me ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 13:29
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 13:32
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 13:35
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Love Area too, but they're like a genre of their own (if they were from the UK, Belgium or France I suspect they would have been in Avant/RIO) |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 13:54
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For me it's between the Mahavishnu Orchestra, Return to Forever, and Miles Davis. The rest are great, and could also be considered essential, along with other artist not mentioned in this list, but those three are my favorites. |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 13:58
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Nucleus a bit overlooked I dare say.
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Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 14:01
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My post here, Saperlipopette!, may be my new approach to polls, and it's just my way to answer your questions.  ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: mellotronwave
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 14:11
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50% are on my list and the first one is mahavishnu orchestra then Rypdal, Ponty, Passport, Brand X, Zappa, Metheny others : Michal Urbaniak, Lockwood, Alan Holdsworth, Mingo Lewis, .. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 14:15
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Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 14:22
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Posted By: Cosmiclawnmower
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 14:25
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I Really like lots of the artists listed but am going to go for two of the most obvious and well known because they are who i tend to turn to if i'm in that mood: Pat Metheny and Weather Report. I also really rate this Swedish fusion outfit, have a couple of their lps  ------------- |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 14:46
I guess, you're right in that, and maybe should Avant/RIO simply be their most right label. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 15:21
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Regarding the question of the most prolific jazz-rockers, a good answer could be provided by looking at RYM's chart. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 15:35
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I thought I was going to go with electric Miles, and I love Herbie Hancock's Mwandishi trilogy (love the "Mwandishi players" albums generally), as well as Placebo, Perigeo, Soft Machine (especially Third), early Weather Report (first two albums), Terje Rypdal, Zao, Nucleus and more, but I am going with Embryo for producing what I think is a long string of mostly excellent and relevant to this topic albums. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 15:36
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how exactly do you define "golden age"? where does it begin and where does it end? I must admit I don't like Al Di Meola at all. yes, his technical prowess is no doubt excellent, and he can play as fast as hell - but he apparently can't play slowly for a change. or actually at any other pace than extremely fast. fans of him will probably disagree with me and give some example of him playing slowly. maybe there are indeed some examples of this, but there certainly aren't many. I at least haven't heard one yet. I personally find this "hey, listen how fast I can play" attitude of him extremely boring
-------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 16:25
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oh, and I'd definitely throw Aera (not Area), Pork Pie, Volker Kriegel, Et Cetera, the Release Music Orchestra, Paraphernalia and the United Jazz & Rock Orchestra into the mix ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 16:42
Agreed. I used to be so impressed by him--16 year old flying around the fretboard like that--but he's kind of like John Petrucci to me: I hear your skill, but where's the heart? Where's the emotion? After years of trying to keep giving Al a chance to "grow", "mature", and show us a tender, "beautiful" side, I finally gave up on him. He teased me a lot on Splendido Hotel, Casino, and especially Scenario (two beautiful songs with Phil Collins and Bruford-Levin, respectively) but he never made it for me. I've never had the heart or desire to try any of his albums from the 90s, 00s, or 10s--don't want my time wasted anymore.... ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 16:49
probably 1967-1979
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Posted By: Intruder
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 16:56
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Yes to the lot.....and we could add a hundred more. I'd nominate the Grateful Dead circa '72-74.....or the Jerry Garcia-Howard Wales collaboration Hooteroll.....or Legion of Mary.....or even Jazz is Dead. ------------- I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there..... |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 17:09
then the bands I listed all fall into that range, at least with their first releases
------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 17:24
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some bands that are listed under "Canterbury" are definitely candidates for the list too, like Soft Heap/Soft Head or Gilgamesh, for example ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 18:22
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Tough to choose between Miles Davis, Soft Machine, Nucleus and Mahavishnu Orchestra. All have multiple albums that are favs of mine unlike most on the list where there might be one or two. I really should try to come up with a top 10 instead of having like a top 75 favourite Jazz and related list.  Love Embryo as well.------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart" "Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 18:23
| like a lot of these--as jazz fusion and jazz --latin jazz is what I like---besides symphonic prog-- |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 21:12
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 21:31
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 21:48
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 22:09
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 22:16
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 22:28
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 22:35
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Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: April 19 2022 at 23:24
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Giger Lenz Marron, a trio formed in December of 1976 by former Dzyan members Peter Giger on drums, and Eddy Marron on guitars, zaz, uniting with German jazz bassist Guenter Lenz. They made two stellar, but obscure albums in the 1970s on Giger's label Nagara. They are both really well done.
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Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: April 20 2022 at 01:25
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My votes go to: Tasavallen Presidentti Wigwam and the solo careers of: Jukka Gustavson Jukka Hauru Pekka Pohjola Jukka Tolonen ------------- https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: April 20 2022 at 01:27
Yes both of their albums are wonderful. I discovered them thanks to you mentioning them a few years a ago.
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: April 20 2022 at 01:30
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Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: April 20 2022 at 01:31
No, I voted for Other, because I am a contrarian! 😜 Which Jukka did you have included? 🤔 ------------- https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: April 20 2022 at 01:35
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^Other always gets plenty of votes so how can that be contrarian? (Jukka Tolonen) |
Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: April 20 2022 at 01:39
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Well it is somewhat contrary, since I could have voted for Pekka, since he was in the poll. 😜 ------------- https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: April 20 2022 at 04:24
Volker Kriegel is definitely not obscure in Germany. and what very few people know: he was also a cartoonist. we have a very original book with cartoons of him. it looks like the sketchbook of an artist who is a heavy smoker; it has holes from "cigarette burns". but these are not real cigarette burns; they are just painted on. the holes are real though. a highly original idea ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: April 20 2022 at 06:16
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Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: April 20 2022 at 06:56
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Oye Como Va. It's no surprise who I voted for Amigos.
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Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: April 20 2022 at 07:07
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IF (seriously MIA from the list) The Eleventh House (Larry Coryell) Lenny White Chick Corea Elektric Band George Duke Brecker Brothers Billy Cobham Blood, Sweat & Tears Weather Report The Zawinul Syndicate Dreams David Sancious & Tone Hiromi CAB Ten Wheel Drive |
Posted By: MortSahlFan
Date Posted: April 20 2022 at 07:20
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Chicago ------------- https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List |
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: April 20 2022 at 07:27
Now you say it, I remember your first suggestion for "my" Jazz-Rock thread. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: April 20 2022 at 08:16
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I don't get why Di Meola, described as playing too fast and is cold. Yet John McLaughlin, who plays faster, more notes, and sloppier than Al, is leading this poll. |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: April 20 2022 at 08:47
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Posted By: Argo2112
Date Posted: April 20 2022 at 09:28
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Lots of good stuff to choose from here. Return to Forever, Mahavishnu , Brand X, Bruford, Zappa, WEather Report, Jean Luc Ponty... All great but I gave my vote to Al Di Meola. ( Fellow Bergenfield NJ Resident !) |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: April 20 2022 at 09:43
You're Welcome.
 |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 20 2022 at 10:50
I quite often do like to favour underdogs in polls, but I do love Embryo as well as many others in the list (especially the ones I mentioned not surprisingly). I will say that from the list getting to know Miles Davis and Harbie Hancock were more transformative on me -- they both had a big effect on my musical interests, whereas there is lot of sort of jazzy Krautrock that I have been into (and jazzy Canterbury Scene too), but Embryo is still a special band to me (. Since you mentioned Can, that was another band that had a big effect on me and it has a had a large impact on much of the modern music I listen to (a hip band with the cool kids, unlike...). The other night when dealing with my usual insomnia, I wrote a list of 50 "cool" albums for an extended cool party, and Can was in there as well as Miles Davis, Serge Gainsbourg, Stereolab, Portishead, Morricone, and many others.... I had thought about additionally mentioning some others for this topic, but I understood how you were approaching this topic and that this was not just about your tastes (clear from the OP and because I have a feel for your tastes as my tastes have been very influenced by yours). I like your approach (as you have alluded to before) of not voting other if you find ones to like in a list, and in this case, all of those I mentioned likely would make my personal general JRF list. If doing an album list, quite a few would have been recommendations from you. Over the last few days I have played jazzy Janko Nilovic (Rythmes contemporains), Mandingo (The Primeval Rhythm of Life and III) and Herbie Mann's Stone Flute -- all of which I see as JRF related at least and I am hardly saying should be included in this list even if they could fit reasonably well. It does surprise me often (thinking generally, rather than particularly with comments in this poll and I am not singling anyone out) how much people seem to expect things should have been listed in polls that could have no more than 25 options and are more focused on talking about what is "missing" or not on the list than what is on the list. I often don't even bother with the other option now and instead ask people to vote for and mention something in the poll and only after that mention any others (and if they expect it "should" have ben included, then a sound argument should be included to support the conclusion (and often say why they think others should not have been considered as there is only so much space). ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: April 20 2022 at 12:54
Three pages in and, no surprise, no mention of these stupendous albums nor Jan Hammer, one of fusion's greatest musicians.  ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: April 20 2022 at 13:08
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^ It's Hammer Time! |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: April 20 2022 at 13:12
are you sure that is classic JRF?
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: April 20 2022 at 13:20
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Can't touch this! ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Cosmiclawnmower
Date Posted: April 20 2022 at 14:33
^ Oh Yeah!! ------------- |
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: April 20 2022 at 15:20
Here's some Di Meola with Mr. Hammer, Anthony Jackson, Steve Gadd, and others.  |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: April 20 2022 at 16:42
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So many great choices, some obvious, others not so much so. First vote for Weather Report. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: April 20 2022 at 17:19
 I was going to post that, but I love that performance of "Star Cycle" and went for it. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: April 21 2022 at 01:46
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Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: April 22 2022 at 01:35
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About Area by the way, it has been mostly considered as Jazz-Rock until some years ago. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: April 22 2022 at 03:15
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Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: April 22 2022 at 04:14
Right, my remark is just "historical", and an explanation for how they have becomed a part of my list. ------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: April 22 2022 at 09:15
There certainly is, and some of it's in Jan's solo discography, like those two awesome records he made with David Earle Johnson. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: April 23 2022 at 17:01
I actually consider Joe Farrell or Pekka Pohjola to be much more obscure than Volker Kriegel
------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: April 24 2022 at 09:48
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I ended up voting Soft Machine for that three album run Seven, Softs and Bundles plus the live Floating, NDR Workshop and Switzerland 1974. ------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart" "Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: April 24 2022 at 12:42
 -I
actually took for granted Joe Farrell was in PA without checking first.
Turns out he isn't (but he should be). Just like you and Kriegel - as a
fan, I thought his solo career was more known and profilic than it
probably is. I too have my blind spots and darlings. In the grand scheme
of things they are all obscure. |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: April 25 2022 at 12:21
I am originally from the USA and came to Germany in 1993. but the name Volker Kriegel was already familiar to me then. of Pekka Pohjola I first heard when I joined ProgArchives in 2005 ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: April 25 2022 at 12:33
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^Yes maybe that was how things were in 1993. Everything changed after internet. The world got smaller and music scenes in overlooked nations like Finland suddenly got a potential worldwide audience. |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: April 25 2022 at 12:55
a friend of my parents was in the Army and served in Kaiserslautern in the early 70s (there was an US military base there). he sent my parents lots of albums of German artists, especially Krautrock, Jazz and Jazz-Rock. so there were several Volker Kriegel albums in the record collection of my parents ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: April 25 2022 at 13:51
| ^ That's an awesome friend your parents had. Maybe he would have sent a couple of Pekka Pohjola-albums if he served in Helsinki. |
Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: April 26 2022 at 06:37