Why Isn't Chicago (the band) Considered Prog?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=128816
Printed Date: February 18 2025 at 03:19
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Why Isn't Chicago (the band) Considered Prog?
Posted By: MortSahlFan
Subject: Why Isn't Chicago (the band) Considered Prog?
Date Posted: April 13 2022 at 12:00
|
Great band, sold a ton.. Is it the horn section? Experimentation? The free form guitar jams? The combination of jazz, classical, soul, and the uniqueness of having three singers. But if you ask people their favorite prog bands, you never ever see Chicago mentioned.. I also notice less mentions if they sold a lot of albums... For the band Chicago, I wonder if it was lack of sex appeal. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List |
Replies:
Posted By: yogev
Date Posted: April 13 2022 at 12:24
|
beacause they don't. sirusely Chicago are one of my favorite bands, but they're just not a prog band. |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: April 13 2022 at 12:26
Maybe their early work, after all they are on PA and i understand why. Beyond '78 I guess not so much.
|
yogev wrote:Posted By: yogev
Date Posted: April 13 2022 at 12:30
Yeah now I see that they are on PA, which is pretty odd to me. the closest I can think of them to prog is the jazz fusion parts on chicago VII. |
Posted By: MortSahlFan
Date Posted: April 13 2022 at 12:32
|
What about Terry Kath Chicago? Let's forget they existed after 78.. After all, there's other bands that totally changed after a member left.. Pink Floyd was never the same after Roger Waters left, and I wouldn't call any of that stuff prog. Lots of other bands changed.. Yes with "Owner of a Lonely Heart", etc etc. I guess Chicago had sax appeal, not sex appeal. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: April 13 2022 at 13:19
If we discounted bands as being prog on the basis of sex appeal, I'm guessing there wouldn't be that many.
|
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: April 13 2022 at 13:31
|
Because they are jazz/rock fusion , but here on PA obviously. Like the first 7...and imho the first 2 should be in every serious ,music collection. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: April 13 2022 at 13:54
Yeah pretty much. This would be like asking why isn't The Clash or John Coltrane or Arlo Guthrie prog...their music isn't prog thus they aren't considered prog. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: April 13 2022 at 14:28
| I think they are considered prog by some but not by most maybe and not by enough people. I think the same could be said about Traffic though. Those early Chicago albums were often broken up into suites and the approach was different than psychedelic or jazz rock/ fusion so I really don't get it either. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: April 13 2022 at 14:31
Well, it's pretty obvious those aren't prog but with Chicago it's definitely not as clear cut. If prog to you means lot's of mellotrons, capes, Steve Hackett style guitar solos and three minute synth solos then no Chicago aren't prog.
|
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: April 13 2022 at 14:49
|
Just how much more prog do you need Chicago to be considered?  |
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: April 13 2022 at 15:08
|
I'm not sure I understand the opening question: Chicago has a place here in the PA database--under Jazz-Rock/Fusion. Personally, I only considered their first two albums as progressive rock, though elements of prog sounds and stylings pervaded lots of other songs of theirs. P.S. Terry Kath didn't mean to leave the band, he left the planet: accidentally shot himself while cleaning his guns in January of 1978. (Not a suicide.) Those present at the incident were totally shocked because Terry was such a careful master of his weapons collection. ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: April 13 2022 at 16:17
|
Chicago was originally doing music that was called brass-rock (some even said horn-rock, apparently), and the very extensive use of wind instruments gave them a "jazz" slant. (something less true for Blood Sweat & Tears, with their syrupy string arrangements). Yes, putting them (Chicago) in PA was a bit of a stretch (like a few dozens other entries), but the very ambitious songwriting was what clinched it to my eyes. Plus the fact that their CTA debut is a classic of psych-rock as well. Aside their first three double albums (5 is in the same vein, but a single disc), their proggiest moment is on the first disc of VII (2/3 instrumental, btw), where they storm up the JR/F like Santana or The second disc of VII is more of a return to classic Chicago sonics. Here is what I had to say about VII: With the catastrophic (for Chicago anyway) 6th album behind them, the group rebounded with a double album (just like in them good ol'days) and a wonderful carved-in-leather gatefold artwork, things were looking upwards - artistically-speaking, because financially they were never better sales-wise. The album starts on the instrumental mode for about 2/3 of the first disc and in the process presents Chicago's finest moment, then suddenly slumps and almost returns to the catastrophic VI album, but the group sprinkled some good tracks here and there and they finish strong on the fourth side of this double Lp. I'm not sure you'll find a more perfect vinyl side on the first three Chicago album than you'll have on the opening side of VII, and it might come as a surprise, but it's mostly drummer Danny Seraphine's doing (with Parazaider's help), both who are not usual songwriters in the band. Out of nowhere rise wild tropical percussions, soon accompanied by a haunting flute complete with Mellotrons and cello (yesireeeebob) and the Prelude leads to the Aire track a delightful Latino-influenced (obviously, they heard Santana), but the track is a fine instrumental that allows the group to show their chops, including a fine Kath guitar solo over a Lamm electric piano in the second half. Great stuff accounting for near 10 mins, including the prelude, and showing Chicago could indeed go JR/F. The following10-mins Devil's Sweet starts on Coltrane (!) grounds with an eerie sax line, before slowly building an ever-changing instrumental track that carries the listener through a series of ambiances and climaxes that make this track just as impressive as Aire. Simply the best flipside of Chicago, it's just too bad the second half of Sweet is almost marred by a (short) drum solo before returning to the Trane sax line at the start of the track. The flipside starts quite well too, with Italian From NY, an electronic noise that leads the group in a Soft Machine-type of groove with Kath's guitar pulling another interesting solo. The short Hanky Panky transforms the previous groove in a more traditional Chicago-type track. Get this: so far, this album has been all instrumental and while HP is segueing into the Beatle-esque Life Saver, the vocals start in the second part of that track. And just when you thought Cetera would screw things up, he pulls a slow jazzy tune Happy Man? well the track is easily the worst from the first disc, but it is one of the man's better writings, with Lamm's electric piano doing much over bongos and congas. I'd have much preferred this song on the second disc along with Pankow's Searching So Long, actually much worse tune in terms of cheesiness with string arrangements, but more uplifting. The second disc is certainly not quite as excellent than its twin and it starts with Mongonucleosis, a Latino-fuelled instrumental light jazz-rock tune that will please everyone, including demanding progheads. While Kath's Evergreens proves to be his best song since their third album (good guitar solo, but his second song Byblos, an acoustic ditty is not of the same calibre, even if it evolves electric, it also overstays its welcome. Cetera's second song WYWH (nothing to do with Floyd, though) is definitely the stinker (and sinker) of the album, a soppy ballad, as atrocious as was the up-coming If You Leave Me Now (Yesssir, that bad!!) Call On Me is a normal Chicago-track that would sit fine on V or even on disc1 of the present, but the final flipside's best moment is Lamm Women Don't Want To Love Me, a funky brassy track that rivals EW&F or K&tG's best moments, especially when Kath's guitar solo happens. The closing Skinny Boy is also very funky, this time closer to James Brown or Sly Stone. A fairly strong fourth side. Definitely the band's best effort in their second chapter (mid-70's) and while some would advise to go one further, I'll stop at this one, one that starts out incredibly well, then slowly fades , but there is now and then a stellar track to lighten up a lengthy double album that would've made a dynamite single disc affair if condensed properly. Definitely worth an investigation, even maybe even the investment. =========================== BTW, I understood Kath was playing Russian Roulette with a few buddies... and lost. I could be confused with someone else, but I don't think so. .
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: April 13 2022 at 16:22
I could be wrong but I believe there was only one other person he was showing his guns to (possibly a roadie or guitar tech but I'm not entirely sure -I'd have to look it up again). Apparently, the guy he was with told him to be careful and Terry said something like "don't worry, it's not loaded. See.." and pointed the gun to his head and that was it. One of the biggest tragedies in all of rock imo. Even with what he did do on the guitar up to the point of his death he should still be ranked up there with Clapton, Hendrix, Page, etc but unfortunately he usually isn't. To prove that point I saw this poster today while walking around in the mall (I don't remember which store exactly) and Terry Kath is nowhere to be found. http://www.ebay.com/itm/333699168102" rel="nofollow - https://www.ebay.com/itm/333699168102
|
Posted By: Hugh Manatee
Date Posted: April 13 2022 at 17:38
|
When you become a soft rock juggernaut you flatten all your previous achievements down into forgotten history so as not to frighten the horses. ------------- I should have been a pair of ragged claws Scuttling across the floors of uncertain seas |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 13 2022 at 19:56
|
^ I like horses. Technically if any band released one completely prog album, they must be added. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Hugh Manatee
Date Posted: April 13 2022 at 20:21
As usual it's hard to say what constitutes a "completely prog" album. I would say Joe Walsh should be included in proto prog, particularly for his work with the James Gang, Barnstorm and his first two "solo" albums, "The Smoker You Drink, the Player You Get" and "So What" (especially Barnstorm), but that just ain't gonna happen and is even less likely to happen because of his association with the Eagles.
------------- I should have been a pair of ragged claws Scuttling across the floors of uncertain seas |
Posted By: Sacro_Porgo
Date Posted: April 13 2022 at 20:29
|
Chicago are definitely prog. ------------- Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :) |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: April 13 2022 at 22:39
| I always liked their first two albums, and hold them in quite high, but later, they lost that inventiveness, and went totally main stream, like Queen, Genesis, and many other bands. |
Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: April 13 2022 at 23:38
So Bad Religion is in? 🤪 But seriously, what the heck is “completely prog”? People on this forum can’t even agree where the borders of what is or is not prog are, let alone what prog itself might be. You really think there is something that could be agreed by all to be “completely prog”? 😄🤪🤪🤪 ------------- https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 14 2022 at 01:07
It's a starting place by which a given team or admins can vote on inclusion. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: April 14 2022 at 01:25
|
Brass Rock at it’s finest methinks. Prog is just a sticker…perhaps one you can slap onto their first couple of outings. Who cares anyway? The music remains the same. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: April 14 2022 at 01:28
😄 That is quite possibly the funniest thing I have ever read in the many years I’ve been reading this forum. 👏🏻👏🏻 ------------- https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: April 14 2022 at 01:32
|
I don't think the question asked in the thread title is the right one, because here on PA they are considered prog, otherwise they would not have been here. Maybe the question is why aren't they more popular or more talked about here on PA and maybe elsewhere? |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: April 14 2022 at 01:54
|
I'm so tired of having to check out all these so-called prog bands that sound nothing like Suppers Ready or Close to the Edge - we need a Completely Prog Sub-Genre! |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: April 14 2022 at 01:56
 And also a subgenre called "true prog".
 |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 14 2022 at 01:57
Isn't it ? Also happens to be true, it's just rare and we haven't had to do that in a long time. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: April 14 2022 at 02:08
It is, and I suspect many may not have seen the humour. Here’s to prog that is “complete”! 🍻 ------------- https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 14 2022 at 02:25
|
Not to belabor it, but as an example, when Heavy Prog was in its infancy we had to decide if Journey should be included in the PA database as a prog rock band, and if so whether they should be considered HP. We concluded that though Journey had released several albums that contained some progressive rock and rock-fusion material, they had never released an album that could be considered a prog rock release. So we rejected them and Admin voted them into Prog Related. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Necrotica
Date Posted: April 14 2022 at 02:44
That's kinda wild to me. I'm curious as why they were considered for heavy prog, when the jazz fusion category seems so much more applicable to their early work  Also, while I'm satisfied with Journey being prog-related because of their overall discog, I do think their debut is a full-on prog record
 ------------- Take me down, to the underground Won't you take me down, to the underground Why oh why, there is no light And if I can't sleep, can you hold my life https://www.youtube.com/@CocoonMasterBrendan-wh3sd |
Posted By: Hugh Manatee
Date Posted: April 14 2022 at 02:46
Ah yes, the Prog Related, that disorganised rabble of illigitimate ne'er-do-wells. They are way to far removed to ever get near the crown even if they are allowed entrance to the throne room.
------------- I should have been a pair of ragged claws Scuttling across the floors of uncertain seas |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 14 2022 at 02:51
Didn't really matter so much initially because someone had to
decide if they should be here at all, which is of course the main job of
the teams. Heavy Prog seemed a reasonable place to start. When the
band was rejected by us, no other team said "Hey we'll take those guys" so
admin took on the task and a reasonable compromise was made. As you know , ProgRelated [and ProtoProg] is not a progressive rock
category, it is an historic & musicologic reference source.
------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 14 2022 at 02:53
A superstitious, cowardly lot, without question. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 14 2022 at 03:47
Hi, The weird part of it all, is that if we look at a lot of Europe, and then Africa, and then Latin America, then South America, then Japan and the Far East ... there are a lot of bands that could be considered "prog" or "progressive", with one exception ... that the worst definition EVER of anything, states that it all has to SOUND LIKE or BE LIKE the top three or four that were crowned the best of these molds. The result? We stopped listening to music, and instead are always looking for something that is SIMILAR to those old buffoons (theses days, anyway!) ... instead of appreciating the very differences and really fine pieces of work out there that are completely ignored. You know what it is like? .... I'm bringing McDonald's and force you to eat burger and fries. ... we gonna loot and steal all the gold and resources so our upper class can get richer and keep the rest subservient while making sure that the royalty never go poop and are always so neat and far out and colorful, when they have some of the darkest history EVER in anything ... and you are going to BELIEVE that their media is right, of course. Here, on PA, I think that many of the folks that made decisions, did it with a lot better thinking and ideas, than otherwise. That CHICAGO does not get the attention that it deserves, is NOT THEIR FAULT, but the result of a generation of fans that is so commercially attuned, that finding something different is stupid and not enjoyed or appreciated. WHICH IS BIZARRE and CRAZY when it comes to the arts. England, and all of Europe, had magnificent, FILM, THEATER, WRITING, and other arts ... except one. ROCK MUSIC that will FOREVER, be banned by a commercially minded group of fans, that don't listen to music anyway ... they will forget many of these bands later and then say ... I was just young and didn't care! We either stand for the art ... or we don't. The classification of it is not even necessary ... but we need to believe in our "children" and their "children" ... or we will all die alone and forgotten, because we were the mememe generation that did not give a chit! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: April 14 2022 at 04:07
|
Chicago is widely known for their hits. Genesis are widely known for their hits. To most anyone outside of places like this, prog is not a thing, and both of these acts are considered ‘artpop’. Why is Prokofiev not considered prog?  ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: April 14 2022 at 04:27
Yup, the debut should be considered "fully-prog" because a bit JR/F indeed The second LitF one should be considered "prog-related", but it is more in the heavy prog genre Wheras their Next album is heavy and has only two "proggy" tracks (the instrumental N&D and Find You if memory serves), the rest being subpar hard AOR the rest of their discog is pure crap, IMHO. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: April 14 2022 at 06:02
You have just mentioned three of my favorites...add Patti Smith, Devo and Janis Joplin. Listening to them I can forget prog for a while... I also share my birthday with Arlo ------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution |
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: April 14 2022 at 07:56
I had heard conflicting statements at the time ( I was a BIG CTA/Terry Kath fan, had just seen them that summer of 1977 at Castle Farms), but you seem to be right: sources say that Don Johnson (not the actor, one of the band's roadies) was with him. It was not Russian roulette; it was totally an accident--by a seasoned gun collector! People forget that Terry was quite gifted singer and songwriter as well. That gravelly, forceful "White Ray Charles" voice sang the leads on "Introduction," "Make Me Smile," "I'm a Man" and even "Color My World" among others. I think they're considered prog for their singular sound, experimental guitar play, and very creative structures and forms--often with great song-ending jams. They were a great if polished concert (in 1977). ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: MortSahlFan
Date Posted: April 14 2022 at 11:56
|
Sure, they're on here, but this is THE place --- the PROG archives. But they're never talked about. But I imagine there's hundreds of Genesis conversations, who also are known for their singles, too. And yeah, bands change, but it doesn't remove those first few albums "prog credibility". And it was 1969 when their debut was out... To piggyback on what Moshkito was saying, in any artistic field, the first who do something seem to have to take the hits while they're knocking the doors down to give artists that come after them precedent. Unfortunately, too many in the avant-garde talking circles (which is what many do - talk more than work) think anything weird or indescribable "could sell and make millions of dollars!" "Commerce is the enemy of art" -Orson Welles And yes, this is why after Terry died, the band went to sh*t, and then REALLY went to sh*t with Cetera/Foster. Maybe I'll listen to their 70s albums after Kath died sometime, but after reading the review posted on here, I think I'm going to listen. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: April 14 2022 at 12:25
I can think of a ton of other bands that deserve to be talked about and it does not happen, so it's not because of the avant prog circles, or famous bands like Genesis and so on. It's also not about credibility. It seems like you want everyone to love this band as much as you do, oh well... it's not possible, it never is...
|
Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: April 14 2022 at 12:43
|
The first seven albums were Prog AF. ------------- The Prog Corner |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: April 14 2022 at 14:38
I saw them twice in Montreal once in the late 70s and then in the early 80s and both times, they were just plain terrible. Pop played by numbers, no flair, no excitement, barely any soloing (except for Seraphine doing a decent drum spotlight), truly nothing prog at all, not even fusion  . They even forgot what city they were playing by stating "Hello Toronto"! Not a good idea in Montreal . Both concerts barely reached the hour mark, including only one encore. I went twice because I thought the first one was a glitch. It was a photocopy . One great debut album does not cut it for me. Kath was Chicago, as far as many proggers are concerned.
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: April 14 2022 at 15:18
|
Chicago are not prog in any way. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: April 14 2022 at 15:22
what about this? |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: April 14 2022 at 17:57
|
The prog thing is certainly arguable , but in the early days they were simply brilliant live. I saw them in November of 1969 at college and they were awesome. Of course they played all of the first and a few tracks from the second. One of the best band of true musicians I have ever seen. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Jacob Schoolcraft
Date Posted: April 14 2022 at 19:05
|
A degree of their style was stylistically based off elements in Soul Music. ...things like the Funk groove in a James Brown song ...which is evident in certain songs they wrote on the early albums. James Pankow was a phenomenal arranger. He was no joke and his abilities were astonishing. They were all skilled players , however what they were playing..I mean the end result or impression it left on people when they listened to C.T.A. or Chicago II..was not what the youth defined as Progressive Rock. People often referenced The Nice or King Crimson as Progressive Rock. Chicago's music is Progressive in the sense that it's Progressive playing. The song "Introduction " is a fine example of how progressive they can be. Some of the breaks in that song are intimidating.. 😃 First try finding a drummer that can play it with the same "feel". The song is really difficult to pull off when you play it for a living and you have an off night. I can't recall one person between 69" and 72' referring to Chicago as Progressive Rock. It's always a possibility considering the times that people generally referred to Chicago as as Pop Music based on the band having a few hits. Especially back then when a snob attitude about any style of Rock felt like judgment day for the artist playing the music. Chicago were skilled musicians not unlike musicians that played with Frank Zappa. Chicago could have played "Inca Roads" . If they had rehearsed it they could have played it no doubt..but as a band they were rarely recognized as Progressive Rock. They were mostly thought to be a "Horn Band" which is mainly a specific description than a title. People in the 60s and early 70s were generally impressed with Blood, Sweat, & Tears, Electric Flag, and Lighthouse but they often referenced them as "Horn Bands" So people often said..."You've got to hear this new group Chicago!!" "They are the best "Horn Band" to date." This sort of reaction is what you would get. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 15 2022 at 11:46
Hi, If the folks that "write" (calling them writers is a joke, of course!), about Progressive Music, and Prog, discussed all their music, not just the better/best selling stuff that is listed at the top, with more instruments and variations, we would not be in this pickle. The day that some guy discusses the "music" instead of a blue guitar, is the day that all this stuff has a chance to be appreciated a lot more than just the singles that sold at that time, and don't now, because folks are into metal, and metal with horns? Oh my gawd ... a cacophony and then some! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Cinema
Date Posted: April 15 2022 at 15:21
|
Chicago isn’t a prog band at all, it’s barely a fusion band, it’s a pop band pure and simple, at least to my ears. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 15 2022 at 16:14
Sounds like Pink Floyd circa '87/88, AMLoR tours ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 15 2022 at 17:11
|
Hi, I find it sad, how the music of yesterday is looked at ... TODAY ... at the time, hearing a band doing that really well, as CHICAGO did for a long time, was very special and worth listening to, be it "progressive" or not. The only thing that I am getting from the folks that don't consider this "progressive" is that it has no link to Yes, JT, ELP, KC ... or something like it. And it is rather sad, as if JT was not a pop band ... which for all the smaller cuts forever, could be considered a pop band, too! Looking at yesterday's music ... and comparing it side by side with today's music is a very bad and sad thing ... I bet that Mozart probably felt like Bach was high school music, too! And we're doing the same thing. That attitude, for me, shows that the listener is not into "progressive" music at all, otherwise the history alone would bring his/her thoughts into line! Just sad. Totally sad. Likewise the above mentioned Patti Smith would also be considered "progressive" when it came out, because there really was not anything similar to it at all, and it was hard on the ears for many. Instead, she is obscured as some sort of this or that with little musical value, and she is a very good musician, writer (her books are excellent and describe NY like you have never seen it!) ... and artist. But it's like folks don't care for the artists at all. And Patti Smith was not a huge seller for anyone else to listen to it, and hearing it these days is not sounding as good, as it did then. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: April 16 2022 at 02:50
I like the analogy (crappy Chicago era vs weakest Floyd era) , but we got lucky when we saw Floyd on that tour, as they'd rehearsed three weeks in Toronto (in an airport plane shed), and then started with three shows at the CNE (I was there on two different evenings), so it was still quite fresh and energy-filled. Phil Collins did the opposite ("Bonsoir Montreal" in Toronto) in the very late 70's/early 80's and got booed as well - and Genesis were buying hockey shirt when playing in the arenas. of course, the endless mega-tours could be harrowing and numbing halfway through. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Jacob Schoolcraft
Date Posted: April 16 2022 at 12:04
|
In the 70s Billy Cobham released a few albums that featured horn charting /horn arrangements.. One being Crosswinds and the other A Funky Thide Of Sings. When I first heard these albums they reminded me of an instrumental Chicago. Chicago were known to be unpredictable as a Pop band. "The Devil's Sweet" was odd to be on an album with hits. It was reminiscent of Soft Machine. The original line up of Chicago could have definitely pulled off the following instrumentals: "Panhandler", "Sorcery", "A Funky Thide Of Sings", "Some Skunk Funk","The Pleasant Pheasant ", "Spanish Moss- A Sound Portrait ", ..I have no doubt if Chicago rehearsed this material for a few weeks they'd nail it. |
Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: April 16 2022 at 13:15
| Have you heard the extended version of “You’re the Inspiration”? And you thought King Crimson was Prog. |
Posted By: Duddick
Date Posted: April 16 2022 at 13:22
Sorry - what does “buying hockey shirt” mean - looked it up but can’t find anything? A local phrase?
|
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 16 2022 at 16:48
Yeah the monotony and sheer dullness of playing the same material night after night, at a certain point it must be like doing the Ice Capades . ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: April 16 2022 at 16:59
Many rock groups would wear hockey team jerseys, specific (or not) to a city and its hockey tradition . Bill Bruford wore famously a Boston Bruins jersey (A Large "B" in a circle with arcs) , and when in Toronto or Montreal, huge hockeys meccas, it would make the fans feel a deeper connection with the band ....
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: MortSahlFan
Date Posted: April 17 2022 at 06:47
|
I'll say it again.. I'm talking about TERRY KATH Chicago... f**k the future garbage. Listen to the first albums. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 17 2022 at 07:21
Hi, I wish folks would listen to the albums, specially in order, to the first 7 albums ... but I seriously doubt that most folks here have heard beyond 10 minutes of any album to comment like they did, by saying just about nothing about the music at all, except their like/dislike, which they think is what "defines" music and its history. As Syd said "...thousands have stood ... and cheered ... something they didn't understand!" In this case, didn't want to understand, because they think "brass" is not progressive, courtesy of the many folks that defined progressive with the stupidest terms about any music ... up to and including the blue guitar of course, which says a lot about the player, doesn't it? ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: MortSahlFan
Date Posted: May 09 2022 at 07:08
|
Danny Seraphine had a heart attack two days ago. I guess he's alright.
“The doctors said no drum solos for a couple of months,” Chicago co-founder says in postponing shows. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: May 09 2022 at 09:18
|
This is the only site on the face of the planet that is discussing Chicago as a possible prog band........I peed myself LOL. -------------   
|
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: May 09 2022 at 10:02
|
By the year 2050, all rock subgenres will be considered prog, along with Bluegrass, C&W, and Gregorian Chants. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: May 09 2022 at 10:20
For their sake I hope not.
 |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 09 2022 at 11:21
A mammal, a pulse and a chord beyond a triad = Prog. All joking aside I enjoy 'early' Chicago but they don't belong on PA. Ditto the Allman Brothers, the Grateful Dead (the pulse is optional), Cream plus all the usual suspects that are dredged up periodically in threads like this. Not being on PA doesn't make their music any less accomplished or enjoyable. ------------- 
|
Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: May 10 2022 at 05:54
|
I drove around Chicago and ended up in Oconomowoc. They had a leak and handed me a soft pretzel. ------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: May 10 2022 at 05:55
|
Posted By: MortSahlFan
Date Posted: May 10 2022 at 09:01
|
No reason to mention when you saw them in the 80s... They became a completely different band after Terry's death, but even toward his end, he was writing straight rock stuff (Takin It On Uptown). In the 80s, (the minute Foster became the producer, any music would have sounded like sh*t - trendy 80s engineering/production) they became a sh*tty pop 80s synth drum garbage. Like my favorite band Pink Floyd. But Roger wrote most of their stuff, while Pankow (trombone) wrote more than Kath. And, it's not like there aren't prog bands who didn't have pop stuff somewhere in the album. It doesn't have to be a 3 minute song to be pop. And there's nothing wrong with an eclectic album, especially when you have so many members, writers, and singers.... Pink Floyd had some pop, too. "Take Five" has a catchy melody and counter-melody between Dave Brubeck and Paul Desmond. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List |
Posted By: MortSahlFan
Date Posted: May 11 2022 at 06:05
|
You can hear the 70s internet on this song.. Surely, THIS is prog by anyone's standards (on here)... Seriously, give it a chance. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List |
Posted By: I prophesy disaster
Date Posted: May 11 2022 at 06:16
|
Given that a number of people do not consider jazz rock / fusion to be prog, I suppose one should ask the question: Is Chicago (the band) jazz rock / fusion? ------------- No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man. |
Posted By: MortSahlFan
Date Posted: May 11 2022 at 09:59
Some songs, yes. Everyone in the band wrote, and many of the time, it was written for someone else (although Cetera never gave someone a song, except the verse for Terry on "Wishing You Were Here"), and almost everyone sang, except for Walt and Danny (who has a few co-writing credits on hits, and then a song like "Devil's Sweet" so there's a lot of different things happening. I can't listen to 80s Chicago unfortunately. Especially by 82. David Foster brought in the worst sound possible. Devil's Sweet (it's prog to me... but if you don't think so, I'd love to see your classification, etc.. I don't take any of this personally) ------------- https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List |
Posted By: MortSahlFan
Date Posted: May 14 2022 at 04:56
|
Lots of time changes in this one. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List |
Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: May 14 2022 at 12:26
|
Progwise, give or take, I'd say that they are about 25 or 6 to 4. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: May 14 2022 at 13:57
| If they were English there's a good chance they'd be considered prog (or at least more prog). Then again Traffic are English and they aren't always considered prog either. |
Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: May 14 2022 at 17:42
|
IMHO, some Chicago is jazz-rock fusion and a fraction of people who enjoy Prog also like jazz-rock fusion. I had a roommate who loved Chicago, and I found the music to be pleasant enough. As a captive audience, I learned much of their catalog. I guess it is a question for the jazz rock fusion folks. If PA is promoting that category, then the question is a perfectly valid one. Toto falls into that category to a certain extent as well. Of course, some will pooh-pooh both outright, but the question is not outlandish. |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: June 01 2022 at 10:30
 ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: June 01 2022 at 11:03
| I'm not an expert but I listened to enough to realize that their pop songs were just a way for them to keep recording the jazz rock pieces. As long as jazz rock is considered prog, so are Chicago IMO |