Reflections on the Russia’s invasion of Ukraine
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Topic: Reflections on the Russia’s invasion of Ukraine
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Subject: Reflections on the Russia’s invasion of Ukraine
Date Posted: March 07 2022 at 10:37
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I open this thread after seeing the impossibility of discussing calmly, and without insults, on the other thread on this topic. I believe that the invasion of Ukraine is a historic turning point, and needs to be analyzed in depth. As a nonviolent pacifist, and as a citizen of the world, I condemn Putin's war, I believe it is as wrong as all wars of border aggression. I will not repeat this premise because it seems obvious to me. However, having memory, I also know that I have feared a war like this for many years because the expansion of NATO to Eastern Europe according to many independent Western analysts was leading to an increasing risk of a violent reaction from Moscow. We are here on a music forum, we are neither political nor military, we do not have the power to determine history. We can only try to understand it. To understand what is happening, it is necessary to research the historical events that preceded this invasion, that is, to study the context within which it was carried out and is carried out day after day. Understanding the historical context and the "reasons" for this invasion does not in any way justify it, but make it understandable. Every human action has its rational basis, however despicable it may be. But understanding the causes of this invasion is especially important because if we do not understand the causes we cannot imagine what the solutions may be that can get us out of this state of war so that justice is done to all the agents in the field. There is no true and lasting peace without justice. We do not have the power to propose solutions, we can only try to understand history, study it, discuss, confront, and get an idea of how it could be a more just world where rights and duties are equal for everyone. Any reflection, opinion, quotation from historians, politicians, intellectuals is welcome. The important thing is to always show respect for the opinions of others. Let's not fall into the logic of war, in the opposition between two barricades, between those who have only faults and those who have only reasons: there are many shades of gray between white and black. ------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |
Replies:
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: March 11 2022 at 10:02
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Reopening this topic for discussion of the incursion into Ukraine. Lorenzo's thoughts seem like a good jumping off point. The previous thread, "...any concerns?", will remain closed. Only need one thread on the subject. Personal attacks, gaslighting, disinformation, and generally creating a scenario that requires babysitting will be snuffed. To restart the topic: People around the world are doing creative things to try and filter financial support into Ukraine. Renting Air BnB's, which obviously nobody would be actually occupying, was a particularly creative one. We can take a small part in supporting http://www.progarchives.com/top-prog-albums.asp?ssubgenres=&salbumtypes=1&salbumtypes=2&salbumtypes=3&salbumtypes=4&salbumtypes=5&syears=&scountries=194&sminratings=-1&smaxratings=0&sminavgratings=0&smaxresults=250&x=74&y=10#list" rel="nofollow - Ukrainian Artists by purchasing their albums and merchandise. Our fellow collaborator, Igor (Prog- Jester), released https://arlekin.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - Arlekin - The Secret Garden late in 2021. Please post other smaller artists from Ukraine that may not show up in our search engine. Again, keep this civil. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: March 11 2022 at 10:21
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People in Eastern Europe desperately need your help. Here are some resources. I have been sending money to Razom for Ukraine: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/27/how-to-help-ukraine/" rel="nofollow - https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/27/how-to-help-ukraine/ |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: March 11 2022 at 10:24
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Black people trying to flee the war have been facing racial prejudice and discrimination, you can help them: https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-vulnerable-black-people-in-ukraine?fbclid=IwAR0c_9gG9TyjxVZdjm8LW4nmzpwoVstDoISp-FJ1eN9CvulEPyLivfp6lRI" rel="nofollow - https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-vulnerable-black-people-in-ukraine?fbclid=IwAR0c_9gG9TyjxVZdjm8LW4nmzpwoVstDoISp-FJ1eN9CvulEPyLivfp6lRI |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 11 2022 at 10:28
Investigating historical events that led to this invasion? We are right back to where we left off on the last thread.  ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: March 11 2022 at 10:39
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^Then perhaps you should avoid it if you can't come up with a constructive response. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow"> https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: March 11 2022 at 12:49
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News from Slava in Lithuania (Snobb on PA and JMA), who has been working 16+ hour shifts registering refugees: "Ukrainians run from war predominantly through their Western order - to Poland, for a moment there are almost 2 million of refugees who crossed the border. Smaller amounts are crossing Slovak, Hungarian and Moldova's borders. Lithuania has no direct borders with Ukraine, but we have hundreds of volunteers who with their own vans and cars just going to Poland's border zone with Ukraine and back taking refugees to Lithuania to help Poles with huge number of Ukrainian refugees. Them bring Ukrainians here to Lithuanian Centers of refugees, established by State Department of Migration. There are three of them in a country, the biggest one in Vilnius and two more- in smaller towns closer to Polish border. I work in Vilnius one, beside of my regular duties in Dept. LT government itself organize refugee traffic to Lithuania from Moldova, since it's a poor who can hardly support them, so we bring them here to Lithuania. In such a center, we register refugees, they at once get temporary residence permit (which let them legally work in LT, open banc account, get free medical services in municipal medical centers /hospitals, use Vilnius public transport for free). My job is to register refugee - them usually speak Russian or Ukrainian only, make picture, take finger prints and issue a residence permit. Refugees can stay in the center up to 72 h, there are rooms where they can sleep, they receive hot food staff for free. There are Red Cross office in a center, plus more NGO representatives who offer free apartments to stay, employers offering job opportunities, etc" |
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: March 11 2022 at 13:10
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Well, at least Pink Floyd is doing their part. https://www.msn.com/en-ca/entertainment/music/news/pink-floyd-and-david-gilmour-removing-music-from-digital-platforms-in-russia-and-belarus/ar-AAUWAJp?li=AAggFp5" rel="nofollow - https://www.msn.com/en-ca/entertainment/music/news/pink-floyd-and-david-gilmour-removing-music-from-digital-platforms-in-russia-and-belarus/ar-AAUWAJp?li=AAggFp5
------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: March 11 2022 at 14:00
To a citizen of an Easter European NATO member country the current invasion of non-NATO member Ukraine will look as if being NATO member has actually decreased the risk of being the victim of such an invasion. (That's at least what my friends from such countries tell me, and I have no reason to think they're wrong.)
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jamesbaldwin wrote:Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 11 2022 at 14:01
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: March 11 2022 at 14:41
Meanwhile, I will be posting more help resources plus news and images from the frontlines. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 11 2022 at 14:57
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: March 11 2022 at 15:05
This is a significant sociopolitical observation, and may be in play long-term as things progress . ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: March 11 2022 at 15:41
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This is not a photo from 1941. This is a photo from March 2022 with all the color removed. A chilling reminder that history repeats… 
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: March 11 2022 at 16:34
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Link provided below to a very thought provoking article about the post-2014 Ukrainian government’s problematic relationship with extreme right-wing parties and neo-Nazi groups. Although they are relegated to the margins come election time, Ukraine’s extreme right-wing Svoboda party and Right Sector group played leading roles in the US-backed coup
in February 2014 where previously peaceful protests in Kiev, gave way to
pitched battles with police and armed marches to try to break through
barricades and reach parliament. (Sound familiar anyone?) Ukraine's military has little appetite to fight it's own people protesting for independence in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions of Donbas so formed new National Guard Units composed entirely from Right Sector and white supremacist Azov Battalion members to do so. None of the foregoing justifies the war crimes of Putin but I just wish we in the west would stop pretending that there is no significant far right activism problematic to an enduring peace in many parts of post Soviet eastern Europe. http://www.fairobserver.com/region/europe/medea-benjamin-nicolas-js-davies-ukraine-war-russia-ukranian-neo-nazi-fascists-azov-battalion-89292/" rel="nofollow - http://www.fairobserver.com/region/europe/medea-benjamin-nicolas-js-davies-ukraine-war-russia-ukranian-neo-nazi-fascists-azov-battalion-89292/
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Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: March 11 2022 at 16:47
| I hope America and the UK open their doors to Ukrainian refugees. I've contacted my House representative and Senators pleading the Ukrainian refugee case. |
Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: March 11 2022 at 16:48
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Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: March 11 2022 at 17:32
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IN ITALY THE CASE OF PROFESSOR ORSINI BREAKS: I WARNED THE PARLIAMENT OF AN IMMINENT WAR IN UKRAINE IN 2018 Over the past week, Italian news has been revolving around Professor Alessandro Orsini, who has made several television appearances. In particular, on Wednesday 3 March, Orsini says in this video: - the military responsibility for the war lies with Putin and I condemn the invasion of Ukraine, I am with Ukraine and the West - the political responsibilities of this war, however, lie in a large part of Europe, because military powers such as the USA and Russia do not admit hostile states around them: Russia does not admit pro-American Ukraine just as the USA would not admit a Canada or a Pro-Soviet Mexico. Orsini says that if Mexico allies itself with Moscow, the US would assassinate its president or cause a Mexican civil war with the CIA, or directly wage war on Mexico. (Just think what Kennedy did with Castro about missiles in Cuba: he would never allow them, under any conditions). - Putin has neither the intentions nor the means to invade Poland or other Eastern European states - the European Union made a mistake because it does not have a policy of its own, it does not have "red lines" which must not be crossed, undermined by other powers. The US has Israel as its red line, Russia has Ukraine and Georgia as its red line. The European Union should think about avoiding a war in Europe, so it should not allow NATO to decide how to deal with the states of Eastern Europe. He says this by specifying that he studied in America, that he loves the US and that he learned from Americans to think about safeguarding the well-being of their nation. After this speech, the University where Orsini teaches made a statement against him, saying that he does not represent the University's thinking, and that Orsini cannot speak in public if he does not take sides in favor of Ukraine (as he actually had done immediately, in the premises). Many university professors have defended Orsini, also thanks to a petition that has collected many signatures. On Wednesday 10 March Orsini returned to the same TV show, and explained his thoughts better: - the West (USA, and Europe) does not know that between June and September 2021, NATO carried out three enormous military exercises: "Sea Breeze", "Three Swords", "Rapid Trident" along the Ukrainian front, which they unleashed Putin's reaction. Where were the Europeans when NATO carried out these exercises that unleashed Putin's wrath? - economic sanctions have historically never been of any use, and in particular the sanctions placed by Europe on Russia will end up damaging the whole of Europe - Arms sales to Ukraine will make the war an even greater slaughter - The US with Trump wanted to wage war on North Korea and Venezuela, but when the generals told Trump that the war in Korea would cost many American lives, and the war on Venezuela was too close to home, Trump gave up. The European Union should learn from the US: avoid wars close to home, safeguard our European lives. - The European Union has FAILED, because it had to prevent wars in Europe, and instead is now selling arms to Ukraine! What has the European Union done in recent years? On December 4th 2018 Orsinsi was invited to speak in the Senate and he said that Russia was about to break through the Ukrainian front. Nobody did anything, indeed, in 2021 we allowed the Americans to organize three huge exercises on the Ukrainian front. Europe failed. Now, the next war will be on the Georgia front. ------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: March 11 2022 at 17:47
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My brother-in-law lived in Vietnam during the war. He said one of the best relief organizations he encountered for cutting red tape and effectively getting help to those that need it was this Christian group, World Vision: https://www.worldvision.org/disaster-relief-news-stories/ukraine-crisis-facts-faqs-and-how-to-help" rel="nofollow - https://www.worldvision.org/disaster-relief-news-stories/ukraine-crisis-facts-faqs-and-how-to-help |
Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: March 11 2022 at 17:51
I like the idea of your starting a new thread specifically geared to these efforts, one that is monitored, because I think this thread is going to careen over a cliff. |
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: March 11 2022 at 18:14
------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: March 11 2022 at 18:18
The president of Sweden, Magdalena Andersson, said that Sweden will not ask to join NATO to avoid further destabilizing the European balance. This decision seems very wise to me. And it was made against Swedish polls, which see an increase in requests to join NATO after Putin's threats. ------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: March 11 2022 at 18:22
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What it is like to be a fleeing refugee from the perspective of a young boy: |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: March 11 2022 at 18:23
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Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: March 11 2022 at 19:31
Will find a way to help! |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: March 11 2022 at 19:59
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Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: March 12 2022 at 03:39
I'd probably agree with that, given the situation is as it is today, with Putin threatening military action in that case. But don't forget that the Swedish historical experience is very different from the Estonian, Moldovan, Polish one. Sweden has much less reason to feel herself directly threatened by Russian than the Baltic states, and that's not because the Baltic countries joined NATO. I hope a lot that Putin will not target these countries at some point, but if he does, this will put Sweden in a very difficult situation also as non-NATO member. It is a fine line for Sweden, and things may play out either way in either case.
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Posted By: Archisorcerus
Date Posted: March 12 2022 at 03:59
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British orchestras will not boycott Russian composers as their work is “intrinsic to the historical canon of Western classical music” Source: https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1502560217795547136" rel="nofollow - https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1502560217795547136 |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: March 12 2022 at 04:21
Did anyone seriously suggest that Russian composers already dead when Putin came to power should be boycotted?
 |
Posted By: Archisorcerus
Date Posted: March 12 2022 at 04:32
^ Well, Dostoyevski is also dead. 
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Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: March 12 2022 at 05:40
In Italy, the famous writer Paolo Nori had to give a lecture on Dostoevsky, I don't remember if in a university. They canceled it when sanctions against Russia came into effect. Then, after the protests of many intellectuals, they changed their minds. But at that point Nori refused to do it. This is another symptom of what it means to enter into a logic of war, in an anti-Russian propaganda. ------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 12 2022 at 05:57
Hi, I'm scared when you hear things like this. A lot of the arts for many eons has been a sort of revolt against the establishment, and in our rage with the machine, we don't care if what we are putting down is the wrong thing at all! I can't help think of that girl band, that was jailed, and I bet raped, and taken advantage of many times, and they will never see the light of day, because you know they will let us know exactly what happened ... and the sad world they fought against, and will die for it! I don't understand how in one breadth we "love the art" and in the next breadth we "hate the art" and immediately kill for it ... I keep thinking of zombie movies ... and we don't know what survival of the meaningful is all about at all ... it's all about the rage WITH the machine ... not against it, the very same overlords that will undo us all! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: March 12 2022 at 06:49
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“Since 1945, the international community has built up a set of rules governing how states interact with one another. This is built on the principles of sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence. As shown, every invasions is, by definition, a violation of sovereignty. What sets them apart from each other is the extent to which they may violate the other two principles. As shown, however, while Western interventions may have violated two of the three principles, and even then in ways that did not necessarily benefit intervening countries directly, none of its actions went against all three of these basic tenets of international relations. In contrast, Russia has entirely ignored all of them - and has done so for its own benefit. The fact that President Putin has implicitly threatened to use nuclear weapons if NATO or any power directly intervenes to help Ukraine makes it all the more troubling. To this extent, Russia's war against Ukraine goes far further than anything we have seen in the post-Cold War Era. Indeed, it threatens to fundamentally undermine the entire system of international relations established after the Second World War” Prof James Ker-Lindsay
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 12 2022 at 07:01
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Deleted - old news. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: March 12 2022 at 08:52
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'American democracy seems to mean America picks who runs your democracy' -------------
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Posted By: Archisorcerus
Date Posted: March 12 2022 at 08:59
Facebook Eases Rules, Allows Violent Speech Against 'Russian Invaders'Source: https://www.voanews.com/a/facebook-eases-rules-allows-violent-speech-against-russian-invaders-/6480283.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.voanews.com/a/facebook-eases-rules-allows-violent-speech-against-russian-invaders-/6480283.html |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: March 12 2022 at 10:09
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Isn't NATO and US interference in 2014 preceded by the Holomodor ? And isn't the Holomodor preceded by the Czarist Empire which ,of course everyone knows in Russia, was really a trade deal expansion all the way to Vladisvostok ?
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: March 12 2022 at 11:57
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Russia and China claim America running Bio-weapon Labs in Ukraine. However, Victoria Nuland and Marco Rubio are 100% sure that only Russia could use the "Ukraine Bio-Research Facilities" for Evil. Because that's what Russians do... |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: March 12 2022 at 12:00
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@ExittheLemming: Thanks for these, much appreciated. Indeed US meddling in Ukrainian affairs seems to me a much bigger problem than the NATO extension to the east... I mean, that's a problem as well, but as I wrote earlier, there were very good reasons for it. |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: March 12 2022 at 15:21
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Between 1917 and 1920, Ukraine was in complete turmoil, and thus, never gained independence, contrary to Poland, and the Baltic States, Romania, Czechoslovakia etc..., in fact Kiev having changed hands 12 times.
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: March 12 2022 at 15:30
Reductio ad absurdum: which caveman swung the first club in anger? -------------
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Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: March 12 2022 at 16:49
Navigating our Humanity: Ilan Pappé on the Four Lessons from UkraineThe USA Today reported that a photo that went viral about a high-rise in the Ukraine being hit by Russian bombing turned out to be a high-rise from the Gaza Strip, https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2022/02/24/fact-check-gaza-strip-not-ukraine-pictured-explosion-photo/6922317001/" rel="nofollow - by the Israeli Air Force in May 2021. A few days before that, the Ukrainian Foreign Minister complained to the Israeli ambassador in Kiev that “you’re treating us like Gaza”; he was furious that Israel did not condemn the Russian invasion and was only interested in evicting Israeli citizens from the state (Haaretz, February 17, 2022). It was a mixture of reference to the Ukrainian evacuation of Ukrainian spouses of Palestinian men from the Gaza Strip in May 2021, as well as a reminder to Israel of the Ukrainian president’s full support for Israel’s assault on the Gaza Strip in that month (I will return to that support towards the end of this piece).
Israel’s assaults on Gaza should, indeed, be mentioned and considered when evaluating the present crisis in the Ukraine. It is not a coincidence that photos are being confused – there are not many high-rises that were toppled in the Ukraine, but there is an abundance of ruined high-rises in the Gaza Strip. However, it is not only the hypocrisy about Palestine that emerges when we consider the Ukraine crisis in a wider context; it is the overall Western double standards that should be scrutinized, without, for one moment, being indifferent to news and images coming to us from the war zone in the Ukraine: traumatized children, streams of refugees, sights of buildings ruined by bombing and the looming danger that this is only the beginning of a human catastrophe at the heart of Europe. At the same time, those of us experiencing, reporting and digesting the human catastrophes in Palestine cannot escape the hypocrisy of the West and we can point to it without belittling, for a moment, our human solidarity and empathy with victims of any war. We need to do this, since the moral dishonesty underwriting the deceitful agenda set by the Western political elites and media will once more allow them to hide their own racism and impunity as it will continue to provide immunity for Israel and its oppression of the Palestinians. I detected four false assumptions which are at the heart of the Western elite’s engagement with the Ukraine crisis, so far, and have framed them as four lessons. Lesson One: White Refugees are Welcome; Others Less So The unprecedented collective EU decision to open up its borders to the Ukrainian refugees, followed by a more guarded policy by Britain, cannot go unnoticed in comparison to the closure of most of the European gates to the refugees coming from the Arab world and Africa since 2015. The clear racist prioritization, distinguishing between life seekers on the basis of color, religion and ethnicity is abhorrent, but unlikely to change very soon. Some European leaders are not even ashamed to broadcast their racism publicly https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe-welcomes-ukrainian-refugees--others-not-so-much/2022/02/28/96981546-9867-11ec-9987-9dceee62a3f6_story.html" rel="nofollow - the Bulgarian Prime Minister, Kiril Petkov:
He is not alone. The Western media talks about “our kind of refugees” all the time, and this racism is manifested clearly on the border crossings between the Ukraine and its European neighbours. This racist attitude, with strong Islamophobic undertones, is not going to change, since the European leadership is still denying the multi-ethnic and multicultural fabric of societies all over the continent. A human reality created by years of European colonialism and imperialism that the current European governments deny and ignore and, at the same time, these governments pursue immigration policies that are based on the very same racism that permeated the colonialism and imperialism of the past. Lesson Two: You Can Invade Iraq but not the Ukraine The Western media’s unwillingness to contextualize the Russian decision to invade within a wider – and obvious – analysis of how the rules of the international game changed in 2003 is quite bewildering. It is difficult to find any analysis that points to the fact that the US and Britain violated international law on a state’s sovereignty when their armies, with a coalition of Western countries, invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. Occupying a whole country for the sake of political ends was not invented in this century by Vladimir Putin; it was introduced as a justified tool of policy by the West. Lesson Three: Sometimes Neo-Nazism Can Be Tolerated The analysis also fails to highlight some of Putin’s valid points about the Ukraine; which by no means justify the invasion, but need our attention even during the invasion. Up to the present crisis, the progressive Western media outlets, such as The Nation, the Guardian, the Washington Post etc., warned us about the growing power of neo-Nazi groups in the Ukraine that could impact the future of Europe and beyond. The same outlets today dismiss the significance of neo-Nazism in the Ukraine. The Nation on February 22, 2019 reported:
Two years earlier, the Washington Post (June 15, 2017) warned, very perceptively, that a Ukrainian clash with Russia should not allow us to forget about the power of neo-Nazism in the Ukraine:
However, today, the Washington Post adopts a dismissive attitude and calls such a description as a “false accusation”:
The previous warnings of an outlet such as The Hill (November 9, 2017), the largest independent news site in the USA, are forgotten:
Lesson Four: Hitting High-rises is only a War Crime in Europe The Ukrainian establishment does not only have a connection with these neo-Nazi groups and armies, it is also disturbingly and embarrassingly pro-Israeli. One of President Volodymyr Zelensky’s first acts was to withdraw the Ukraine from the United Nations Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People – the only international tribunal that makes sure the Nakba is not denied or forgotten. The decision was initiated by the Ukrainian President; he had no sympathy for the plight of the Palestinian refugees, nor did he consider them to be victims of any crime. In his interviews after the last barbaric Israeli bombardment of the Gaza Strip in May 2021, he https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGY6fHodcUY" rel="nofollow - that the only tragedy in Gaza was the one suffered by the Israelis. If this is so, than it is only the Russians who suffer in the Ukraine. But Zelensky is not alone. When it comes to Palestine, the hypocrisy reaches a new level. One empty high-rise hit in the Ukraine dominated the news and prompted deep analysis about human brutality, Putin and inhumanity. These bombings should be condemned, of course, but it seems that those leading the condemnation among world leaders were silent when Israel flattened the town of Jenin in 2000, the Al-Dahaya neighborhood in Beirut in 2006 and the city of Gaza in one brutal wave after the other, over the past fifteen years. No sanctions, whatsoever, were even discussed, let alone imposed, on Israel for its war crimes in 1948 and ever since. In fact, in most of the Western countries which are leading the sanctions against Russia today, even mentioning the possibility of imposing sanctions against Israel is illegal and framed as anti-Semitic. Even when genuine human solidarity in the West is justly expressed with the Ukraine, we cannot overlook its racist context and Europe-centric bias. The massive solidarity of the West is reserved for whoever is willing to join its bloc and sphere of influence. This official empathy is nowhere to be found when similar, and worse, violence is directed against non-Europeans, in general, and towards the Palestinians, in particular. We can navigate as conscientious persons between our responses to calamities and our responsibility to point out hypocrisy that in many ways paved the way for such catastrophes. Legitimizing internationally the invasion of sovereign countries and licensing the continued colonization and oppression of others, such as Palestine and its people, will lead to more tragedies, such as the Ukrainian one, in the future, and everywhere on our planet. https://www.palestinechronicle.com/navigating-our-humanity-ilan-pappe-on-the-four-lessons-from-ukraine/ ------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: March 12 2022 at 17:16
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Excellent points Mr. Baldwin. Meanwhile, Iran bombs US Army base. https://www.eutimes.net/2022/03/breaking-iran-bombs-us-army-base-in-erbil-iraq-with-ballistic-missiles/ Multiple rockets have smashed into a US Army base and a Kurdish news channel office in Erbil, northern Iraq. At least five ‘Iranian-produced ballistic missiles’ hit the city in the early hours of Sunday, Governor Omed Khoshnaw confirmed. He said it was not clear whether the missiles were targeting the American consulate at the site, or the airport in the city. There were ‘victims or casualties after Erbil blasts’ Kurdish Health Minister Saman Barzanji said. US officials later confirmed there were no military victims of the blasts. No further details were immediately available but videos posted online appeared to show several ‘Iranian produced’ ballistic missiles hitting the base in Erbil. See the article for three separate videos of the missile attack. Update: Some reports American military aircraft are being scrambled out of bases in Qatar |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 12 2022 at 18:03
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: March 12 2022 at 18:18
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Over six million purportedly have died in the Democratic Republic of Congo in the last few decades and no threads for our African brothers and sisters. Of course they were pawns in a game that mines coltan to create our electronic devices. Not condoning any mafia violence against the innocents, just pointing out the hypocrisy of how the West reacts to Caucasian atrocities and doesn't seem as concerned about the slow burning genocides of our pigmented friends. It's all bad. Not looking for a response here.  #mice -------------  https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: March 12 2022 at 18:41
The ends of America and Russia are exactly the same i.e. they both want to control Ukraine as a puppet state with their own choice of president malleable to their cash/weapons incentives. Only the means are different so neither own the moral high ground here. -------------
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Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: March 12 2022 at 20:41
Well, I guess that means nothing has changed since 1945 then! Reductio ad absurdum and nothing has changed in this thread either, as the same 2 main and distinguished orators have taken the microphone.
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: March 12 2022 at 21:13
This was not reported in the Western media much at all, right? Aren't they people too?!
 |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: March 13 2022 at 04:52
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@siLLy puPPy: Has anyone stopped you from opening a thread on this, or deleted it? |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 13 2022 at 05:17
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: March 13 2022 at 05:42
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@Lorenzo: I honestly don't think that underlining the hypocrisy of Western politics makes us better understand the reasons of Russian invasion of Ukraine - there is as much, if not more, hypocrisy to be found in Eastern politics. This can only become an up-bidding of examples of hypocrisy, lies, broken promises, etc. that will - in my opinion - only get us bogged down more into binary thought instead of getting us out of that. In my opinion, NATO expansion can only be considered as a menace from a Russian (Putinist?) point of view. For the Eastern European countries that became member of NATO, it is/was rather a guarantee to not fall again under a Russian domination/dependence, be it economic or military. (Also: NATO is not a country and cannot be taken as a synonym for the USA. Don't forget, as an example, that USA's proposal of an Ukrainian
membership of NATO was vetoed by Germany and France in 2008). Since the creation of the Community of Independent States by Yeltsin in 1991, it became rather clear that a "partnership" with Russia meant just a new domination by that country. The Visegrad and GUAM countries didn't want that and would rather protect their new found sovereignty. To guarantee that sovereignty a membership of NATO seem(ed) a logical step. Transnistria (1992), Chechnya (1994-1996), Georgia (2008), Ukraine (2014 and now) only prove them right: their sovereignty is under threat. Russian sovereignty has never been under threat; that perception is just that: a perception. And this feeds the narrative and discourse that Putin wants to make us believe in. For me, the central questioning in all this should not be the (perceived) menace - of a Russian or a NATO expansion - but the sovereignty of countries. In these last 30 years, Russia has not a very good track record in respecting the sovereignty of countries...
------------- The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
Posted By: Woon Deadn
Date Posted: March 13 2022 at 06:40
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John Mearsheimer's opinion: ------------- Favourite Band: Gentle Giant Favourite Writer: Robert Sheckley Favourite Horror Writer: Jean Ray Favourite Computer Game: Tiny Toon - Buster's Hidden Treasure (Sega Mega Drive/Genesis) |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: March 13 2022 at 06:42
This is what I call a factual explanation, devoid of political slant or blame. Those who say that NATO is getting too close to Russia, well it works both ways, Russia is getting too close to NATO by “retaking” Ukraine, no? . It is just a line in the sand, it doesn’t matter where, and frankly with ICBMs , having land based missiles is a moot point, just an excuse to complain. Put up another Iron Curtain Mr. Putin , your Soviet version did already once , you can do it again…..It seems that the most pragmatic, lucid, cogent and realistic perspectives come from those nations bordering Russia . Whether the Baltic states, or Poland and Hungary (who have a long history of conflict with the Eastern Empire), the current leaders reflect a cool logic that basically encompasses NEVER AGAIN. Their freedom came after a multi-generational struggle with said empire. Recently, in an interview, the Finnish president also showed remarkable pragmatism and insight in being a neighbour with some "history" with the Bear. ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: March 13 2022 at 06:53
I saw his previous pre-invasion video on the current crisis and he stated various "opinions" that turned out to be quite incorrect, namely "Putin is not stupid to invade Ukraine" , among a few others. Now, it's "Ukraine depending on the US" , no they want to join NATO and the EU, formally and not become the 51st State of the Union. A historian reads the past and does not /should never guess on what will happen next as that enters the realm of commentary without factual support. I did mention in a now closed thread, that the W5 is based on the when, where, what and who (which some like to nevertheless distort, omit or falsify) and the complex WHY , which of course is the one area where said "opinions" can come into play and create the "fake news" element so dear to our social media world. It's like going to a corrida , where the hapless bull is constantly goaded, provoked, and teased by the picadors , in order for the matador to do his bloody work. And who do we cheer for?
 ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: March 13 2022 at 09:44
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Current news on the war: |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: March 13 2022 at 10:07
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In the fog of war, confusion reigns and tempers flare. An Indian TV host confuses his two guests identities, because the Ukrainian guest is misidentified as the American guest...and visa versa. Hilarity ensues. |
Posted By: Archisorcerus
Date Posted: March 13 2022 at 10:15
^ 
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Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: March 13 2022 at 10:34
I don't find this hilarious at all. It just illustrates the moral bankruptcy of some media who put opinions over fact-checked news. A decent TV-station should sack this so called editor-in-chief, first of all because he is yelling at his guests, and, second of all, in his yelling he is is making a very awkward, disturbing and indefensible amalgamation of opinions (because not really based on facts) that just undermines any authority he might have had - if he had any. The confusion of identities is just a stupid mistake; the "editor-in-chief"'s behavior is unworthy of anything or anyone who claims to have some journalistic deontology. He clearly is void of that. ------------- The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: March 13 2022 at 10:56
I don't do political threads on a music site. I'm just pointing out that everyone seems to go gaga about European conflicts and completely ignores the daily violence perpetuated against other nations around the world. Why? Media hype. This was just a reminder not a condemnation. My heart goes out to all the innocents in Ukraine, Russia, Belarus or wherever. We're all one big family. I've personally been helping with GoFundMe sites for an orphanage in Uganda. ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: March 13 2022 at 11:55
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"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth" " Never trust the Russians, they don't even trust themselves" Both quotes from Otto von Bismarck ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: March 13 2022 at 20:32
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Things is getting a mite dicey 'round in here. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: March 13 2022 at 20:46
This was alluding to a comment made by the former US ambassador to Russia in jest.
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Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: March 13 2022 at 20:54
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Airstrikes on a monastery that is housing refugees: "Metropolitan Arseniy commented on the airstrike on the Sviatogorsk Lavra. The abbot of the Sviatogorsk Lavra, Metropolitan Arseniy, in his video message called madness the shelling of the monastery, which does not and cannot have any military facilities. The bishop of the UOC said that the Assumption Cathedral of the monastery, as well as the monastery hotel, which accommodates 520 refugees from Kharkiv and Izium, including 200 children, were damaged as a result of the bomb fall. Among them are those wounded by glass fragments. “At the time of the airstrike, there were about 10,000 civilians living in Sviatogorsk along with the refugees. There were no military units on the territory of Sviatogorsk and the Sviatogorsk Lavra," Metropolitan Arseniy stressed. “In other words, the attack hit a peaceful city and one of Ukraine's three Orthodox shrines – the Holy Dormition Sviatogorsk Lavra.” The bishop called it madness "to make airstrikes on civilians and people who fled from the war because of the bombing." Metropolitan Arseniy said that medical assistance had been provided to the wounded. However, according to the information he has, a second airstrike is being prepared. “I as the abbot of the Holy Dormition Sviatogorsk Lavra, urge everyone on whom it depends to stop this madness, the bombing, the strikes on absolutely peaceful cities,” the metropolitan said." from https://spzh.news/ |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 01:08
Be aware that firm lines have been crossed already since this thread was reopened Friday.
Read what you are posting thoroughly and ask yourself if the post violates forum rules. And if you think someone else is violating a policy, don't quote it and propagate the violation.
------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow"> https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 01:27
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You know, last night whilst my wife was on a Zoom call thingy, I put on Amused to Death, and then I read mine and other collabs reviews of the work. It remains a seminal work to me, and especially its very prescient description of a war being fought and viewed on television in Western cities via the loop of 24 hour news feeds, always desperate for a new “angle” on the “line” being taken. Add to that the armchair warriors of The Bravery of Being Out Of Range, and especially the pseudo intellectuals here opining on how important it is to get to the underlying truth to the background of what it is all about (man). Meanwhile, in the real world, a fascist regime has invaded a sovereign nation, and men, women, and children are being killed, displaced, and in the case of refugees wanting to come to my country, subjected to the insane bureaucracy we know fondly as our Home Office. Quite honestly, any opinion on the whys and wherefore of the war are a pointless, and somewhat patronising, intellectual piece of self-aggrandising w**kery. Can we please have a thread that dedicates itself exclusively to ways we in the prog community can lend some assistance to these poor people? Can we not have yet another thread in which some pretty self-obsessed worldview personages promote said views, thinking that this represents a marvellous victory? Let’s leave the political debating where it belongs. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: Archisorcerus
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 04:09
If you don't mind my asking, isn't the quote below within the scope of bigotry? (See the underlined part.)
Don't get me wrong, I defend free speech, unless it includes lies and deceit. I think knowing what people think is better than not. I always prefer open hostility to clandestine enmity. Also that's why I cannot be an admin. |
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 05:19
Kees: - The NATO commander, by statute, is an American. The general secretary can be a European, but only if he has US approval. In other words: NATO policy is decided by the US. - The states that left the USSR and entered the Commonwealth of Independent States of Yeltsin, if they then ally themselves with the United States, they represent a threat to Russia. And they are aware of it. Furthermore, these same states must manage the ethnic pro-Russian revolts within them. - Sovereignty: What's Better Than a Neutral State? In 2014 there was an uprising in Ukraine that led the nation to be pro-American. That popular uprising was favored by the US. Depending on the narratives, it was a spontaneous people's revolt (pro-American narrative), it was a coup d'état (pro-Russian narrative). It certainly resulted in killings and the formation of neo-Nazi battalions which were then integrated into the regular army of Ukraine. These battalions were the protagonists of the violent repression of the pro-Russian revolts in the Donbass, which lasted 8 years. - Yesterday Russia bombed a NATO post. Where was? In Ukraine. Last year, NATO carried out 3 major exercises in the Black Sea. Who armed Ukraine? USA and UK. There are also chemical weapons laboratories in Ukraine, organized by the US. Russia is bombing the Ukrainian military basis, which arose thanks to the help of the US. In short, Ukraine, although not officially part of NATO, is as if it were. - What is Putin asking after invading much of eastern Ukraine and while he is besieging major cities? He asks for three things: 1) the recognition that Crimea is part of Russia 2) the recognition of the two independence republics of Donbass 3) a written declaration of neutrality by Ukraine. If after making this invasion, Putin were really willing to withdraw from Ukraine in exchange for these three things, Putin would be satisfied with little (the propaganda fueled by Putin himself talks about recreating the Russian Empire: all false) and would show that he has invaded Ukraine for ethnic reasons (Crimea and Donbass) and defensive political reasons, that is, to have a Ukraine that is no longer the depot of arms and positions of NATO. We will see if Zelensky wants to accept these conditions. ------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 06:10
The Otto von Bismarck quote is nowhere near bigotry at all, it was a wartime comment by a famous statesmen , it is not intended as a slight to the Russian race , but rather a window into the fact that their leaders have been a long list of harsh rulers throughout their history, which I believe i mentioned earlier, who have suppressed their own people longer than their neighbours with lies, deceit and threat. Specifically, if government officials poll Moscow citizens about whether they approve or disprove of the "special Operation" , what do you think they will answer? ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 06:14
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@Lorenzo. This has been asked before, but I'll ask it again: Do you really think that Putin will go no further if he gets those concessions? And isn't it a coincidence that he's destroying the buffer between himself and NATO with merciless bombing? And for what purpose? Defense or offense?
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Archisorcerus
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 06:56
Bigotry encompasses racism, but is not necessarily limited to it. This sounded like a huge generalisation. Thanks for clarifying. 
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Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 06:59
Context is everything. ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 08:21
I hope that Putin and Zelenskij will agree as soon as possible on the three points requested by Putin. According to the Israeli press (Walla News and Jerusalem Post), Bennett would have asked Zelenskij to accept those conditions. I hope Putin doesn't ask for more, but I'm not sure. In the position of military advantage that he is in, he could do it. For Ukraine, the most important thing should be stop the war, stop the killings and the devastations, and maintain its sovereignty. If Putin complies with the required points, Zelensky may be able to keep the government of Ukraine. Putin's war on Ukraine is wreaking havoc on cities, and obviously, like any war, what it gets is disproportionate to the damages it does. Russia, however, made little use of airplanes to bomb, resulting in a relatively low number of civilian deaths when we take into account how many buildings have been destroyed. Instead, there are many refugees, people who have fled even if, in most cases, their home has not been destroyed. There are two millions of refugees so far and all of them will fall on the shoulders of European countries that have never accepted so many refugees in such a short time. During the first week of the war, European countries accepted more Ukrainian refugees than they accept in one year of all refugees from Africa and Asia. This means that the policy of the right-wing parties on the acceptance of migrants is hypocritical and racist. It is not a coincidence. Ukraine had become a nation with NATO weapons and bases, although it was not a part of it. Putin has decided to invade it, to destroy laboratories and military bases, along with unfortunately much more. And to ask that Ukraine sign an agreement in which it declares itself neutral. In this way, Putin has shown the US that it cannot cross the red line established by Moscow, consisting of Ukraine and Belarus. What Putin does is aimed at the US. Ukraine is merely the victim of a clash between the two superpowers. But if he gets what he wants, I don't see what else Putin can do in the middle of the Europe. Putin cannot extend his rule beyond Belarus and Ukraine. The problem for Europe will be what to do after this war. Europe will have to understand what it wants for itself and for the relations it has with Russia. Does it make sense to be just a monetary union, without having its own politics and its own army? Furthermore, there could be new inter-ethnic clashes in Europe, after all it is from the war in Yugoslavia that in Europe there are problems of independence everywhere (the case of Scotland and Catalonia are not yet resolved) According to the Italian analyst Orsini, Putin's next target will be Georgia, another borderland. ------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 08:49
Fairly accurate assessment. I also apologize for my comment above.
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Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 09:05
I concur. However, I doubt Russia will allow Zelenskyy to continue as Ukraine's leader. Rumors swirl that America is preparing Zelenskyy to rule Ukraine in Exile. Zelenskyy owns a Florida mansion. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 10:04
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 10:51
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[/QUOTE] I concur. However, I doubt Russia will allow Zelenskyy to continue as Ukraine's leader. Rumors swirl that America is preparing Zelenskyy to rule Ukraine in Exile. Zelenskyy owns a Florida mansion. You may be right about Putin and Zelenskyy. I'm probably projecting what I would do.
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Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 10:52
| Re Steve G: Yes, a big part of this invasion probably has to do with Zelensky not being a putin puppet, and poison is usually putin's way of dealing with those who don't agree with him. |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 11:17
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Russians leaving Russia because they fear martial law for Russians may be next as putin cracks down on protestors: |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 11:19
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Not only Finland, but Turkey is also seeing the arrival of Russian dissidents: |
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 11:27
Perhaps Zelenskij will be removed, or will decide to go and enjoy his assets abroad. Hard to say now what will become of him. Until 3 years ago he was just a comedian. After this disaster I am more worried about what Ukraine will be and also about what could happen to Russia after Putin: it could disintegrate in a lot of wars of secession. What do you mean with "Nato leaders"?
------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 11:32
| I don't see how being a former comedian is any way to discredit Zelensky. That seems preferable to being a former KGB agent when it comes to past occupations. |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 11:58
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An alleged Ukrainian Foreign Legion member says he's packing his bags after a Russian airstrike saw 35 troops killed on the base housing foreign fighters. He claims the Ukrainians refused to give them weapons, even with rumors of Russians outside the base. Video aftermath footage included in link. https://valiantnews.com/2022/03/ukrainian-foreign-legion-fighter-allegedly-bails-after-air-strike-no-one-wants-to-die-in-an-unfair-fight/
My take? I think Russia wishes to discourage foreign volunteers/mercenary's from fighting for the Ukrainians. I believe the Russians will let Ukrainian's go... if they give up their weapons. Why waste Russian personnel on guarding Ukrainian prisoners, when you can let them go? However, I believe Russians will not be merciful to foreign volunteers/mercenary's. Foreigners caught fighting for the Ukraine side will be dealt with harshly. Humanitarian corridors? The Russians will not attack the humanitarian corridors. Why? 1. Russians want civilians to escape from the fighting. a. Less people for Russian Army to deal with b. Less chance of massive civilian death toll which brings bad World PR to Russian army. 2. Russians wants Ukrainian soldiers to take advantage of humanitarian corridors, so the Ukraine soldiers can sneak out of Ukraine. The humanitarian Corridors worked for the Russians in Syria in the exact same way. 3. If the Russians attacked the humanitarian Corridors, then the civilians and soldiers would be afraid to use the Corridors as an escape route. Attacking humanitarian corridors would work against Russian Strategy. American military volunteer gets raw deal in Ukraine. Flees and barely makes it out of the country. Tells his story on this Twitter video... https://twitter.com/i/status/1503737123261800452 |
Posted By: MortSahlFan
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 11:59
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I didn't read every post (yet), but I liked the mention of Roger Waters' "Amused To Death" -- great work. Ahead of its time, forever lasting relevance, just like everything else he's written. “I am disgusted by Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, it is a criminal mistake
in my opinion, the act of a gangster, there must be an immediate
ceasefire,” -Roger Waters I wish there was less cheer-leading in general, because things aren't so clear-and-cut. I'd recommend everyone reading/watching/listening to as many different sources as possible. Try to put yourself in everyone's shoes. It's the people who are always the victims, not the politicians. I wish they aren't being used as human shields to participate in this proxy war, because there's no way Ukraine can defeat Russia, and Zelensky knows this, and should have made a deal. Signing a document, saying they will not joining NATO for 10 years, something. The cost is too much - human life. Thousands. And the danger of escalation. The average man in Russia lives to 71. Putin is 70. He's cornered and isolated. He might be thinking he has nothing to lose, and might be thinking, "I might as well go with a bang" and has nothing off the table? ------------- https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 12:06
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More news about Russian people leaving Russia due to fears about their government: |
Posted By: MortSahlFan
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 12:15
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This was released 6 years ago, so this will be extra interesting to see. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List |
Posted By: Mirakaze
Date Posted: March 15 2022 at 02:59
This was never in doubt; however, I have some, perhaps naïve, hope that this crisis might prove to be somewhat of a turning point in the EU's immigration policy. Not only will a lot of people in Europe have a different perception of war refugees now that they know that white European countries are just as susceptible to a humanitarian crisis, but more significantly: the same countries (Poland, Hungary, Slovakia etc.) that always vetoed a collective EU refugee distribution and sheltering policy, content as they were with refugees wasting away in camps on the Greek isles and elsewhere, are now bearing the lion's share of Ukrainian refugees and might therefore be more amenable to such policies now. ------------- https://mirasnelder.wordpress.com/" rel="nofollow - Freelance composer, accepting commissions | https://mirasnelder.bandcamp.com/album/altered-acuity" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp page |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: March 15 2022 at 04:23
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Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: March 15 2022 at 04:31
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Map above. The Red Areas are controlled by Russia. However, most large cities in Red Area remain under Ukrainian control. The striped areas are areas where Russia in facing resistance, yet making progress. The blue oval in the East is controlled by Ukraine (mainly the Azov Battalion "40,000-60,000 Ukraine soldiers.). All grey areas are controlled by Ukraine (except for Crimea). Currently Russia maintains air superiority over the entire country.
Russia has not moved soldiers into Western Ukraine. Russia might not want to. If you look carefully at Eastern Ukraine. The Russians are forming cauldrons in the Donbas (Blue oval), and a larger Cauldron, pinching together the South and North. Russia feels it can cripple the Ukraine military if the Azov Battalion in the East is cutoff and defeated. Russia also wants to link the East and West on the South coastline near the country of Moldova. Russian City Strategy? The Russians surround major cities. Allow civilians and (soldiers who surrender weapons) to leave via humanitarian corridors. However the Russians do not allow supplies into the cities. I guess you would call this a siege strategy. Most the major cities in the East Ukraine are surrounded. However, the cauldron has NOT closed yet around Kiev. Russians move in toward a city. Once, they meet resistance, the Russian back off and hunker down in siege Warfare. The Russians bypass some cities all together. For example, the Russian have not engaged Odessa (on Southwest coastline of Black Sea, above Crimea). Russia ties up valuable Ukrainian military in Odessa. Although, Russia has not moved soldiers into Western Ukraine, the Ukraine army must keep large caches of weapons and manpower there. If foreign soldiers or jets and weapons are moved into Western Ukraine, the Russians plan to conduct missile attacks and air sorties. The missile attack on an airbase near Lviv was such an attack. I'm sure my analyses and the Map has flaws. This is how I see the Russian/Ukraine military situation at present. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 15 2022 at 05:35
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: March 15 2022 at 07:12
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Russian journalist Alexey Kovalyov answers questions about what putin's government is doing to his own people. https://www.vox.com/22967223/ukraine-russia-war-putin-propaganda-reallity" rel="nofollow - https://www.vox.com/22967223/ukraine-russia-war-putin-propaganda-reallity |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: March 15 2022 at 11:38
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America will lose dollar as Reserve Currency because of American War hysteria and Russian Sanctions. The member states of the Eurasian Economic Union (EAEU) and China will develop a project for an independent international monetary and financial system. This was agreed upon by the participants in the economic dialogue “A New Stage of Monetary, Financial and Economic Cooperation between the EAEU and the PRC. Global Transformations: Challenges and Solutions”, which was held on March 11 via videoconference. It is envisaged that the system will be based on a new international currency, which will be calculated as an index of the national currencies of the participating countries and commodity prices. The first draft will be submitted for discussion by the end of March. As Sergei Glazyev, Minister for Integration and Macroeconomics of the EEC, emphasized, China was the first in the world to move to the stage of national economic recovery. The background here is bigger. This was noted by Godfree Roberts: In two weeks, China, Russia, Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Kyrgyzstan will reveal a new, independent, international monetary and financial system. It will be based on a new international currency, calculated from an index of national currencies of the participating countries and international commodity prices. Russia and China will also reveal their Unfriendly Nation Lists. Early today. Russia signed deal with India. Russia will sell India all the oil/gas it needs. All deals will be done in Rubles and Rupees. Who loses? American and European middle class and poor. If Dollar is replaced, then years of record inflation is guaranteed. |
Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: March 15 2022 at 14:43
Really BIG flaws if you ask me, basing it all on a hugely flawed pro-Russian map. Even the Ukrainian cities are written in their Russian spellings. How do you miss these things? ------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: March 15 2022 at 16:01
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UKRAINE DOES NOT WANT TO DEAL Last night, Zelensky's deputy premier, Iryna Vereshchuck, a former Ukrainian army officer and minister for the reintegration of occupied Ukrainian areas, was interviewed by three Italian journalists who are experts in international politics. The aforementioned asked her what Ukraine is willing to negotiate with Russia. Vereschchuck said Ukraine is calling for an immediate ceasefire and that there are working humanitarian corridors. The Italian journalists insisted: Do Ukraine want to negotiate on the basis of the three points requested by Moscow? 1) Neutrality 2) Recognition of Donetsk and Lugansk as independent republics 3) Recognition of Crimea as part of Russia Zelenskij's deputy premier said Ukraine does not intend to recognize ANYTHING, on the contrary, Ukraine wants these areas to be reinstated to Ukraine with a UN decision. The Italian journalists then asked her on what basis Ukraine plans to negotiate, but Vereshchuck went back to talking about Russia bombing and massacres, etc. In the end, one of the Italian journalists concluded, worried, that this being the situation, Ukraine has no intention of negotiating. This is the video of the broadcast (in Italian) https://www.la7.it/otto-e-mezzo/rivedila7/guerra-in-ucraina-parla-il-governo-di-kiev-otto-e-mezzo-14032022-14-03-2022-428811?fbclid=IwAR0Z8FEMCCdmpVXhf_cxMSVWCuX7dmL-mL1Ouo6b7-rQG63VAQ3Z5jhh4Rk
------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |
Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: March 15 2022 at 16:11
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And nor should they have any interest in negotiating on those three points requested by Putin. ------------- https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: March 15 2022 at 16:18
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^ Lorenzo, it is not uncommon for politicians and diplomats to decline to conduct their negotiations via the media. Negotiations such as this are held behind closed doors, and rightly, because the media circus would run amok with anything spilled. Most politicians learn pretty early on that the trick on how to handle the media zoo is to waffle on endlessly without saying anything of any interest to anybody. Job done. I might also add that it is perfectly possible that Ukraine’s position is, in all reality, to refuse to negotiate any loss of territory and sovereignty whilst Putin’s army is bombing merry hell out of them. For many people, that is not an unreasonable position to take. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: Archisorcerus
Date Posted: March 15 2022 at 16:33
I read this a couple of days ago, and it made sense to me.Ukrainians have won the information war: historian Margaret MacMillanWhile Russian troops continue to assault Ukrainian cities amid stiff resistance from locals, Kyiv seems to have won the battle of narratives, the Canadian author says. Source: https://www.dw.com/en/ukrainians-have-won-the-information-war-historian-margaret-macmillan/a-61022603" rel="nofollow - https://www.dw.com/en/ukrainians-have-won-the-information-war-historian-margaret-macmillan/a-61022603 |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: March 15 2022 at 16:52
We've been inundated by an American/NATO/Ukraine propaganda tsunami, so I feel an alternative view is needed to balance the information war. Spellings are minutia. Americans use English spellings. Please point out specific flaws. I am interested in the truth and reality. If you have factual data Mr. Aardvark...please share it. Instead criticizing...provide alternative data that negates the information I shared. From my research, I conclude that Russia is winning the physical war, while Ukraine is winning the information war.
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Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: March 15 2022 at 17:04
If they believe they are winning the war, I can understand the refusal to negotiate, but I think it is difficult. In addition, without negotiations, a protracted war lies ahead, where a large part of Ukraine could be destroyed. And we are already at 3 million out of 44 million refugees: about 7 percent of the Ukraine population. The situation risks escalating. It is true that she may have spoken just to make propaganda, and that Ukraine is actually willing to negotiate, but then I wonder why she should be interviewed. At the moment this war is starting to worry all of Europe, for a possible enlargement. And if Ukraine prefers to commit suicide rather than negotiate, everything is to be expected, because the three conditions imposed by Moscow, that is, by a power that is besieging the main Ukrainian cities, are little more than nothing (assuming that those are the real conditions). ------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: March 15 2022 at 18:50
Nato/USA/Ukraine propaganda tsunami ? Wow! If Russia is winning the physical war , how come it is ongoing even though Putin was expecting it to last a maximum of 3 days before Kiev is taken and the Ukrainians surrender? I guess the Russians want to minimize damage. This just in, in order to balance the narrative out : the EU, the USA and via its "vicious" military ARM are about to consider the following new amendment to all national civil/criminal codes throughout its territories and colonies : Disseminating false news like calling this a war and not "a special operation" on the internet will be passable to 1.5 years in prison with no parole, while demonstrating in person anywhere , thus slandering the Russian state will be liable to 15 years in jail, no appeal.  ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: March 16 2022 at 03:29
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@omphaloskepsis I see that you have deleted the comment (in my opinion quite extreme) in which you spoke about what matters to the United States, about which I was now trying to answer you. So I'll answer you in private.
------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |