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Topic: The Cornerstone of Your Prog SupergroupPosted By: BrufordFreak
Subject: The Cornerstone of Your Prog Supergroup
Date Posted: January 24 2022 at 17:05
If you could createyourown "fantasy league" all-star prog band--from all of prog's 56 years of history--who would be your one, key foundational member who would make the cornerstone of your band--the "franchise" player--the one to make it all work?
After you name yours, I'd love to see your reasoning for such a choice.
My cornerstone player would be Tony Levinbecause:
- he can get along with anybody,
- he can play any kind of music (included among his over 500 albums, are diverse artists such as Paul McCartney, Paul Simon, Judy Collins, Cher, Alice Cooper, Buddy Rich, Lou Reed, Todd Rundgren, Seal, Gary Burton, James Taylor, Herbie mann, Sarah MacLachlan, Peter Frampton, Timm Finn, Richie Sambora, Dominique Vantomme, Peter Kater, Chuck Mangione, Larry Fast, California Guitar Trio, Al DiMeola, Phil Keaggy, Don MacLean, Lou Christie, Deodato, Kate & Anna McGarrigle, Phobe Snow, Mike Manieri, Melissa Manchester, Burt Bacharach, Ben Sidran, Laura Nyro, Art Garfunkle, Jun Fukamachi, Peter, Paul & Mary, John Lennon & Yoko Ono, The Roches, Bill Chinnock, Roy Harper, Kazumi Watanabe, Warren Bernhardt, Joan Armitrading, Johnny Warman, Jules Shear, Mark Knopfler (LocalHero), Gowan, Frida, Catherine Lara, Tom Waits, Marshall Crenshaw, Brian Ferry, Andy Pratt, Rosie Vela, Warren Zevon, David Torn, Jill Jones, T Bone Burnett, Robbie Robertson, Julia Fordham, Richard Thompson, Ringo Starr, Stevie Nicks, Steps Ahead, Laurie Anderson, Jeanne Mas, Claudio Baglioni, Phil Manzanera, Paula Cole, Chris Botti, Andy Summers, Eros Ramozzotti, Kevin Maxx, Magellan, Gov't Mule, Steve Hackett (Genesis Revisited), David Bowie, Willie Oteri, Michael Whalen, Eddie Jobson, Jakko Jakszyk, Nad Sylvan, Marco Minneman, Alec Sebastien, Phil Collins, Katherine Kaye, Jerry Goodman, Brandon Flowers, Steve Thorne, Sarah Brightman, Days Between Stations, William Ackerman, Slow Electric, The Weepies, Ólafur Arnalds, Steven Wilson, Goatika Creative Lab, Randy Vanwarmer, Lara Fabian, Steve Howe, Mike Portnoy, Gigi D'Alessio, Gibonni, Jordan Rudess, Niyaz, David Sancious, Ivan Lins, )
- he works well in the studio or live on stage (and has been touring almost continuously with an amazing variety of bands for the past 50 years including many of those listed above),
- he has a great, fun-loving, personality, that does not get caught up in interpersonal squabbles,
- he is a virtuoso musician(not just bass player)
- he is all business yet very adaptable to any recording, creative, touring conditions,
- he is an incredibly adept and fast learner (has sat in on tours with Yes, Genesis, Pink Floyd, Sarah Brightman, James Taylor, Paul Simon, Richie Sambora, Ivanno Fossati, Carly Simon, Herbie Mann, Peter Frampton, Judy Collins, and many more)
- yet he is also very creative (is collaborative member of several outstanding bands, including Stick Men, King Crimson, Bruford-Levin Upper Extremities, Levin Brothers, Levin Torn White, Levin Minneman Rudess, Perfect Trio, and Liquid Tension Experiment as well as his own solo releases)
- he has several very distinctive sounds (yet does not necessarily dominate the music, rather, blends in or helps create a very unique yet-always-interesting sound landscape)
- is tireless, has boundless energy
- LOVES music! (all kinds; is unafraid to try anything)
Replies: Posted By: JD
Date Posted: January 24 2022 at 17:32
Keith Emerson...for all the obvious reason I guess.
Pro's
Innovator
Composer
Multi-style player
Multitude of sounds
Has played with some of the best rockers in the world
Con's
He's dead
------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: January 24 2022 at 19:29
Allan Holdsworth. Ponty, Gong, Soft Machine, UK, Bruford, solo, etc. He added class and enhanced everything he played on. A true innovator with an original sound. RIP.
Pat Metheny would be my second choice.
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 24 2022 at 19:45
Well, I can think of many dream line-ups, but one of the best, if not the very best, I don't have to imagine, for that is Yes, CttE line-up. So, who would we think was the cornerstone for that one? I guess most would say that it was Crhis Squire...
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 25 2022 at 00:26
Predictably from me, the late great Keith Emerson but second choice would be Steve Howe. Such a shame those 2 never worked together.
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: January 25 2022 at 05:28
Any band needs a great drummer, so probably Bruford or Palmer.
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: January 25 2022 at 05:48
Martin Barre. An underrated orchestrator, who can go from blues to rock, classic, jazz, etc.
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: January 25 2022 at 05:55
I'd probably go with Chris Cutler, the drummer of Henry Cow, he's got beautiful technique, has played with a ton of different bands and style, from what I've read he'd been a good organizer.
Bruford i& Squire are certainly good suggestions.
I'd love to suggest Fripp, and while he'd be great at leading in the short term the band would dissolve in 3 years.
------------- Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: January 25 2022 at 06:22
Grumpyprogfan wrote:
Allan Holdsworth. Ponty, Gong, Soft Machine, UK, Bruford, solo, etc. He added class and enhanced everything he played on. A true innovator with an original sound. RIP.
Pat Metheny would be my second choice.
Another artist I strongly considered. Ultimately I was able to eliminate hime cuz I just don't like a lot of the music he did once he became a solo artist.
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: January 25 2022 at 06:25
Dellinger wrote:
Well, I can think of many dream line-ups, but one of the best, if not the very best, I don't have to imagine, for that is Yes, CttE line-up. So, who would we think was the cornerstone for that one? I guess most would say that it was Crhis Squire...
Another artist I love and considered but rejected because he never demonstrated (to me) a desire, much less a penchant, for testing himself outside of his comfort zones. (E.g. Chris playing folk, pop, or jazz???) Plus, he was reputedly not a very team-oriented player. (Just ask Bill Bruford.)
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: January 25 2022 at 06:27
Manuel wrote:
Martin Barre. An underrated orchestrator, who can go from blues to rock, classic, jazz, etc.
Sadly, this is an artist that is brought up frequently that I do not appreciate well enough. If it weren't so much for the fact that I find Jethro Tull music so irritating, I might explore more. Do you have any suggestions of his play outside of Tull?
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: January 25 2022 at 06:28
BrufordFreak wrote:
JD wrote:
Keith Emerson...for all the obvious reason I guess.
Pro's
Innovator
Composer
Multi-style player
Multitude of sounds
Has played with some of the best rockers in the world
Con's
He's dead
Keith was one of my top 5 considerations.
Don't get me wrong....Tony Levin IS a tour de force on the rhythm section, and to be honest he was easily in MY top 5. I just felt Emerson had quite an edge as a composer.
------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: January 25 2022 at 06:34
Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:
I'd probably go with Chris Cutler, the drummer of Henry Cow, he's got beautiful technique, has played with a ton of different bands and style, from what I've read he'd been a good organizer.
Now, this is a very interesting choice--and one worth following up on. I've loved the Henry Cow stuff I've stumbled across in the last 14 years but have never gone on an actual "Chris Cutler Quest." Perhaps it is time!
Bruford i& Squire are certainly good suggestions.
I'd love to suggest Fripp, and while he'd be great at leading in the short term the band would dissolve in 3 years.
Bob and Bill, of course, were considered. Again, like Chris, I think them a bit too narrow-minded in their focuses. Yes, Bob did all that acoustic and pop-oriented stuff, and Bill did Yes, KC, solo, Earthworks and jazz, but still, I just think they're a bit too monochromatic for my purposes. I want my band to be able to play Prog Folk, Prog Electronic, Prog Metal, and Indo-Raga Prog as well as all the others. Plus, I'm not sure I think of either as great leaders. Strong willed, goal-oriented, yes, but somewhat reluctant collaborators.
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: January 25 2022 at 06:36
Carl Palmer and Steve Howe are also admirable choices. Both for their obvious talents and versatility, Steve for his indefatigability (the guy's still pumping it out after almost 60 years!).
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: January 25 2022 at 06:44
BrufordFreak wrote:
Grumpyprogfan wrote:
Allan Holdsworth. Ponty, Gong, Soft Machine, UK, Bruford, solo, etc. He added class and enhanced everything he played on. A true innovator with an original sound. RIP.
Pat Metheny would be my second choice.
Another artist I strongly considered. Ultimately I was able to eliminate hime cuz I just don't like a lot of the music he did once he became a solo artist.
If compositional skills are a requirement, Tony's output, (Stick Men, LTE, LMR, BLS) is lame, compared to Allan. Not sure how much he contributed to KC's music either.
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: January 25 2022 at 06:47
The problem with this is that the very best are really strong personalities, and may not be able to accept anyone else leading. Fripp has played with many and is a genius, still a supergroup around Fripp is bound to play Fripp music and nothing else (of course there's some space for variation within Fripp music, but still). Levin or Bruford are better candidates for this task, having played with so many other geniuses. Still I was normally more convinced by them playing Fripp music rather than leading their own band (even though Bruford has some good stuff as band leader). I won't go for these rather obvious choices and explore something else.
The next candidate is from my favourite band, Jaki Liebezeit of Can. Outside Can Jaki has done a lot of stuff (very little if anything of which is on PA). If he were still alive, for sure he'd be up for team play, still his drumming is so characteristic that wherever he has his hands in sounds like him. The issue here is that he is really not a composer (also Holger has said that he's quite scary but I hope the others in the band are strong enough personalities that they can deal with that).
So I have my band headed by a surprise (?) selection, namely Kate Bush. Of course Kate is only known for her solo work, but many good musicians have contributed to it, so she can play well in a team, too, and I'd really be super curious what she could come up with having behind her a band full of prog genuises with their own strong ideas. One reason why I go for her rather than some of the seemingly more obvious candidates is that I'd expect this band to come up with a unique synthesis, something that is really different from what Kate as well as her collaborators have done up to now, so something that would make me really curious. I hope she'll accept Jaki as a drummer (Bruford is unavailable because he has to tour with different supergroups; also both Kate and Jaki are known for exercising witchcraft, so that'll be a good fit and they can hopefully keep each other within limits), and we can talk about the rest later.
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: January 25 2022 at 07:12
Grumpyprogfan wrote:
BrufordFreak wrote:
Grumpyprogfan wrote:
Allan Holdsworth. Ponty, Gong, Soft Machine, UK, Bruford, solo, etc. He added class and enhanced everything he played on. A true innovator with an original sound. RIP.
Pat Metheny would be my second choice.
Another artist I strongly considered. Ultimately I was able to eliminate hime cuz I just don't like a lot of the music he did once he became a solo artist.
If compositional skills are a requirement, Tony's output, (Stick Men, LTE, LMR, BLS) is lame, compared to Allan. Not sure how much he contributed to KC's music either.
I much prefer Holdsworth as a sideman to a leader. I find his solo stuff way too self indulgent. He may have been too much of a tortured soul to lead a band.
Agree on the Levin solo material, I like it but its hardly ground breaking. Probably the ultimate perfect sideman.
------------- Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
Posted By: JohnnyCanuck3
Date Posted: January 25 2022 at 08:05
My cornerstone for a super prog group would be Neal Morse.
Why?
1. He's already a cornerstone for several groups, including Spock's Beard, Transatlantic, Neal Morse Group, Flying Colors, etc.
2. He is obviously able to work with a diverse array of artists, as evidenced by the various groups he is in. Seems to get along well with others, and seems to be well liked.
3. A prolific songwriter and seems to be comfortable spending endless hours in the studio and/or on tour.
4. A great musician, playing keyboards, guitar, mandolin, and who knows what else.
5. Able to work in a number of different styles/genres of music.
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: January 25 2022 at 11:01
Lewian wrote:
So I have my band headed by a surprise (?) selection, namely Kate Bush. Of course Kate is only known for her solo work, but many good musicians have contributed to it, so she can play well in a team, too, and I'd really be super curious what she could come up with having behind her a band full of prog genuises with their own strong ideas. One reason why I go for her rather than some of the seemingly more obvious candidates is that I'd expect this band to come up with a unique synthesis, something that is really different from what Kate as well as her collaborators have done up to now, so something that would make me really curious. I hope she'll accept Jaki as a drummer (Bruford is unavailable because he has to tour with different supergroups; also both Kate and Jaki are known for exercising witchcraft, so that'll be a good fit and they can hopefully keep each other within limits), and we can talk about the rest later.
Wow! this is a really clever and unexpected idea! I LOVE it! I agree: Kate would be an amazing band leader/cornerstone. Kate Bush, Chris Cutler, Keith Emerson, and Tony Levin (and perhaps Martin Barre)! I like the sound of those choices!
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: January 25 2022 at 11:05
JohnnyCanuck3 wrote:
My cornerstone for a super prog group would be Neal Morse.
Why?
1. He's already a cornerstone for several groups, including Spock's Beard, Transatlantic, Neal Morse Group, Flying Colors, etc.
2. He is obviously able to work with a diverse array of artists, as evidenced by the various groups he is in. Seems to get along well with others, and seems to be well liked.
3. A prolific songwriter and seems to be comfortable spending endless hours in the studio and/or on tour.
4. A great musician, playing keyboards, guitar, mandolin, and who knows what else.
5. Able to work in a number of different styles/genres of music.
Another GREAT selection! I have to agree that he would be a perfect cornerstone! My one hope would be that Neal would also be open to ideas and agendas that might not necessarily be overtly Christian in their message/intent, otherwise, build away. (Perhaps, Johnny, your ideal band is already intact: the Transatlantic lineup is pretty tough to beat!)
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: January 25 2022 at 11:13
Grumpyprogfan wrote:
BrufordFreak wrote:
Grumpyprogfan wrote:
Allan Holdsworth. Ponty, Gong, Soft Machine, UK, Bruford, solo, etc. He added class and enhanced everything he played on. A true innovator with an original sound. RIP.
Pat Metheny would be my second choice.
Another artist I strongly considered. Ultimately I was able to eliminate hime cuz I just don't like a lot of the music he did once he became a solo artist.
If compositional skills are a requirement, Tony's output, (Stick Men, LTE, LMR, BLS) is lame, compared to Allan. Not sure how much he contributed to KC's music either.
I'm stunned! I am in shock! Have you ever heard or seen Tony Levin? He was by far the most valuable contributor to anything and everything KC did! And he makes it all seem so effortless! (To him it is effortless!) Have you seen/heard the innovations he made to his craft? Do you know how hard it is to play a ChapmanStick much less to play it well?
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: January 25 2022 at 11:44
^I'm shocked that you didn't read my post! I'm not talking about innovations, I'm talking about song writing. I'm not sure how much input Levin had on the 80's KC albums, and Tony's solo material is not good to my ears. That is what I'm talking about - his ability to write good songs.
Your statement "He was by far the most valuable contributor to anything and everything KC did!" is silly. Most of KC's greatest music was created before he was a member.
Holdsworth was also an innovator. Ever heard anyone else play the SynthAxe as well as Allan?
Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: January 25 2022 at 11:44
Hmmm … with a trio, everyone is a cornerstone.
Ron Jarzombek on guitar. Even though he is well known for moving the frontier in Prog Metal, he can play any style and does it well. He has also worked with many artists and is genuinely a nice person who cares more about the music than any other aspect (money, fame, etc.). He is a perfectionist, which would guarantee a top quality product that would be very proggy.
Percussion would be Bill Bruford for obvious reasons. Plus, Ron would need someone who can handle 13/8 time signatures with ease.
Bass, vocals, and keyboards … I’m going with Geddy Lee. Not only can he play and sing complex patterns, but he would ensure that the music includes both extremely proggy songs, as well as radio friendly music of a complex nature. So, Geddy Lee would loosely direct the project.
A nice trio! Just need to give them access to a high quality studio with top notch engineers for a few days. I would love to hear the results!
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 25 2022 at 21:22
richardh wrote:
Predictably from me, the late great Keith Emerson but second choice would be Steve Howe. Such a shame those 2 never worked together.
I believe I read sometime that, well, Keith Emerson wanted his keyboard driven trio from the beginning, but if he could have had one guitar player with him, he would have liked Steve Howe.
Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: January 25 2022 at 21:57
Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:
I'd probably go with Chris Cutler, the drummer of Henry Cow, he's got beautiful technique, has played with a ton of different bands and style, from what I've read he'd been a good organizer.
A very interesting choice, but one that would limit the kind of music that would be played and thus who else could feature in the band. Make no bones about it, Cutler views the music of mainstream prog bands like ELP, Yes, King Crimson and GG as very much beneath him, and he would not be involved with a project which had that kind of music in scope.
------------- Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to. http://bandcamp.com/jpillbox" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp Profile
Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: January 25 2022 at 22:54
For my own choice…
Firstly, I’d exclude from my band all the egotists who had to be the dominant voice, all those who were unreliable because of drink / drugs / mental instability, all those whose vision of music was too narrow to accommodate a variety of approaches, and all those who are known to be ‘difficult’ (i.e. arseholes). You lose a lot of visionaries that way including the likes of Emerson and Fripp, but if you want a working all-star band then it’s a price I think you have to pay.
I’d look for people with a very distinctive contribution to make as both a player and a writer, and who have shown versatility in the kind of musical situations they can operate in. Multi-instrumentalism would be a benefit but not a requirement. Kerry Minnear is a contender, and might well make the band, but the fact that so far as progressive music is concerned he mainly just worked in the context of GG mitigates against him being the cornerstone. Other names that have crossed my mind are Bruford, Levin and Jon Hiseman. But I really feel like picking Mike Keneally. Brilliant on both guitar and keyboards, writes fascinating music, has worked in a multitude of contexts, and seems like a lovely chap.
------------- Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to. http://bandcamp.com/jpillbox" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp Profile
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: January 26 2022 at 03:54
I've thought about this over many years, and my main "cornerstone" prog musician would have to be John Wetton!
The guy could do it all...from glam (Roxy Music) to Genesis covers (his amazing work with Steve Hackett) and everything in between!!
Having seen him with LTIA era KC, Asia, and UK, I was always impressed at his talent for singing his heart out while playing complicated, fast lines on bass guitar!
Here, please enjoy!
------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: January 26 2022 at 04:25
BrufordFreak wrote:
Lewian wrote:
So I have my band headed by a surprise (?) selection, namely Kate Bush. Of course Kate is only known for her solo work, but many good musicians have contributed to it, so she can play well in a team, too, and I'd really be super curious what she could come up with having behind her a band full of prog genuises with their own strong ideas. One reason why I go for her rather than some of the seemingly more obvious candidates is that I'd expect this band to come up with a unique synthesis, something that is really different from what Kate as well as her collaborators have done up to now, so something that would make me really curious. I hope she'll accept Jaki as a drummer (Bruford is unavailable because he has to tour with different supergroups; also both Kate and Jaki are known for exercising witchcraft, so that'll be a good fit and they can hopefully keep each other within limits), and we can talk about the rest later.
Wow! this is a really clever and unexpected idea! I LOVE it! I agree: Kate would be an amazing band leader/cornerstone. Kate Bush, Chris Cutler, Keith Emerson, and Tony Levin (and perhaps Martin Barre)! I like the sound of those choices!
Kate Bush is a great call but the rest of the band would have to get used to releasing one album every decade.
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: January 26 2022 at 04:45
Mascodagama wrote:
Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:
I'd probably go with Chris Cutler, the drummer of Henry Cow, he's got beautiful technique, has played with a ton of different bands and style, from what I've read he'd been a good organizer.
A very interesting choice, but one that would limit the kind of music that would be played and thus who else could feature in the band. Make no bones about it, Cutler views the music of mainstream prog bands like ELP, Yes, King Crimson and GG as very much beneath him, and he would not be involved with a project which had that kind of music in scope.
Well it is MY supergroup
------------- Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: January 26 2022 at 05:49
BrufordFreak wrote:
Manuel wrote:
Martin Barre. An underrated orchestrator, who can go from blues to rock, classic, jazz, etc.
Sadly, this is an artist that is brought up frequently that I do not appreciate well enough. If it weren't so much for the fact that I find Jethro Tull music so irritating, I might explore more. Do you have any suggestions of his play outside of Tull?
Try his solo output. The Martin Barre bad is quite remarkable. “Back to Steel” and “The Road Less Traveled” don’t have any Tull songs, and Martin’s own writings.
Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: January 26 2022 at 06:11
Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:
Mascodagama wrote:
Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:
I'd probably go with Chris Cutler, the drummer of Henry Cow, he's got beautiful technique, has played with a ton of different bands and style, from what I've read he'd been a good organizer.
A very interesting choice, but one that would limit the kind of music that would be played and thus who else could feature in the band. Make no bones about it, Cutler views the music of mainstream prog bands like ELP, Yes, King Crimson and GG as very much beneath him, and he would not be involved with a project which had that kind of music in scope.
Well it is MY supergroup
True enough! I would actually be interested to hear who else would get into it.
------------- Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to. http://bandcamp.com/jpillbox" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp Profile
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: January 26 2022 at 06:57
Mascodagama wrote:
Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:
Mascodagama wrote:
Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:
I'd probably go with Chris Cutler, the drummer of Henry Cow, he's got beautiful technique, has played with a ton of different bands and style, from what I've read he'd been a good organizer.
A very interesting choice, but one that would limit the kind of music that would be played and thus who else could feature in the band. Make no bones about it, Cutler views the music of mainstream prog bands like ELP, Yes, King Crimson and GG as very much beneath him, and he would not be involved with a project which had that kind of music in scope.
Well it is MY supergroup
True enough! I would actually be interested to hear who else would get into it.
Chris Cutler - Drums
Robert Fripp - Guitar
Michel Berckmans - Bassoon/Oboe
Carla Kihlstedt - Violin
William Kopecky - Bass
Dave Stewart - Keys
Lars Hollmer - Accordion
Shabaka Hutchins - Sax
Geordie Greep - vocals
------------- Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: January 26 2022 at 07:29
Hi,
It's strange ... I don't think that I have acquired many albums over the last 50+ years, based on one person only, and my choice, is not based on one talent, but on ALL the talents by all the folks involved.
In other words, it is the "group" working together that matters to me the most, not just one player. I shudder to think that Rick was better than the rest of the band, or that Keith was better than the rest of the band, or that Peter was better than the band, although some folks will probably state that Ian was better than the band since he continued to do his stuff with different musicians and still made it work!
IF, I have a choice, the group I would choose would be Amon Duul 2 .... but only a specific period ... from YETI, to DANCE OF THE LEMMINGS, to CARNIVAL IN BABYLON, to WOLF CITY, and then VIVE LA TRANCE. Those 5 albums show something that is rare for most bands, specially one that was so independent of its own "style" and simply did what they wanted, and some of that stuff is phenomenal. And at this time, the Live album LIVE IN LONDON shows a very good band on top of it!
Hard to say all this, as I could easily say the same thing about CAN, and then TANGERINE DREAM ... and if there was ONE PERSON, that would fit this thread, it would be EDGAR FROESE, specially as he commandeered so many versions of the band, and it seemed like it always got better, when you watch the videos of so many of their shows. Not to mention that the music itself is incredible.
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: January 26 2022 at 07:38
Lewian wrote:
...
The next candidate is from my favourite band, Jaki Liebezeit of Can. Outside Can Jaki has done a lot of stuff (very little if anything of which is on PA).
...
So I have my band headed by a surprise (?) selection, namely Kate Bush. Of course Kate is only known for her solo work, but many good musicians have contributed to it, so she can play well in a team, too, and I'd really be super curious what she could come up with having behind her a band full of prog genuises with their own strong ideas.
...
Hi,
Rather odd combination, when hearing Kate's album 50 WORDS FOR SNOW, which has a couple of songs that do not have a "beat" and one drummer does great on them, something that I like to use as examples when people talk about "great sticklers" that can't do anything but keep time! BUT, Jaki would make it right, and you can hear it on FUTURE DAYS, and then SOON OVER BABALUMA, when the drumming adds to the music, by not keeping time or a beat ... but simply adding touches that furthers the moment of the keyboard ... something that the majority of drummers never learn ... afraid that they would lose the beat or worse, throw off the poor musicians in front of them, when they are not sharp enough and rehearsed enough to know how to pick things up when the lamp fell down and shattered on the stage. It's about the music, not the beat. You certainly don't hear a lot of "drumming" in music history for centuries, and now we are considering some of them "excellent" and those guys can't do music without a beat!
I suppose that I would like to choose Jaki, but I prefer the duo of Peter Leopold and Danny F in AD2, who seemed to made things work just fine, and you can't even tell that there are two of them in there, though sometimes it is not listed as both of them, and one of them went to visit the group next door (Popol Vuh) and so on!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: January 26 2022 at 08:53
@mosh: In fact I have no idea how Jaki would work with Kate, which is a reason why I'd love to try it out. There is something in Jaki's style that seems alien to Kate's approach, but then he has the "breathing" that Kate has as a singer and her songs have, but I don't locate in the drumming on most of her material. Who knows?
Peter Leopold is a hugely underrated great drummer, but I've got to say that Danny hasn't impressed me that much. They have worked well as a team though.
Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: January 26 2022 at 09:39
Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:
Mascodagama wrote:
Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:
Mascodagama wrote:
Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:
I'd probably go with Chris Cutler, the drummer of Henry Cow, he's got beautiful technique, has played with a ton of different bands and style, from what I've read he'd been a good organizer.
A very interesting choice, but one that would limit the kind of music that would be played and thus who else could feature in the band. Make no bones about it, Cutler views the music of mainstream prog bands like ELP, Yes, King Crimson and GG as very much beneath him, and he would not be involved with a project which had that kind of music in scope.
Well it is MY supergroup
True enough! I would actually be interested to hear who else would get into it.
Chris Cutler - Drums
Robert Fripp - Guitar
Michel Berckmans - Bassoon/Oboe
Carla Kihlstedt - Violin
William Kopecky - Bass
Dave Stewart - Keys
Lars Hollmer - Accordion
Shabaka Hutchins - Sax
Geordie Greep - vocals
Wow, quite an amazing roster...I find it hard to envisage how they would sound, but it would be one glorious cacophony.
Possibly enlivened by the occasional fist fight.
------------- Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to. http://bandcamp.com/jpillbox" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp Profile
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: January 26 2022 at 13:28
Well...I'm a Crimson fan so I would probably say Fripp.....other than him I would pick Steven Wilson...assuming he would commit to doing a prog thing for more than an album. ;)
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: January 27 2022 at 07:56
dr wu23 wrote:
Well...I'm a Crimson fan so I would probably say Fripp.....other than him I would pick Steven Wilson...assuming he would commit to doing a prog thing for more than an album. ;)
Hi,
I don't think that Kate would bother with SW ... my guess is that he is about the song and how it sounds to his ear, and for Kate, it is mostly about how she sees herself in the song, as if it were an actress doing their work. I don't see her even thinking about him. It reminds me of SW doing the live thing with Ninet ... and he doesn't have the guts to even try that a 2nd time, not the same but similar, allowing the lady the freedom she needs to express herself, which I think she came up with, not him! He doesn't have that side in him, that scary anger ... he's too English for that (right!!!! next ..... ).
I look at SW as someone that doesn't know music and how to interpret his words and meanings. I think that if he concentrated on music alone, it would be more consistent and better, but his words seem to put a stop to that. They prevent him from "tripping", so to speak, but maybe this is something he doesn't want to do anymore since he did it for so many years, and now the music has "less meaning" than it did then, in regards to tripping and dreaming! (how time flys ... ).
But I suppose that Kate would be nice to head a supergroup, and include some folks like Eberhard Weber, Steve Gadd and some other folks that have colored her music so well ... but I would imagine that it will just tire her too much and take away from the music itself ... she's about her poetry and making it come alive, not really about anything else, and I kinda think that the "song" part is just an addon, and many times not necessary at all.
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Posted By: fraanco3
Date Posted: January 27 2022 at 15:02
Manuel wrote:
[QUOTE=BrufordFreak][QUOTE=Manuel]Martin Barre. An underrated orchestrator, who can go from blues to rock, classic, jazz, etc.
Sadly, this is an artist that is brought up frequently that I do not appreciate well enough. If it weren't so much for the fact that I find Jethro Tull music so irritating, I might explore more. Do you have any suggestions of his play outside of Tull?
If you find Tull's music irritating, then you won't like Martin Barre, because he is prominent in every Tull album from 1970-2011.
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: January 27 2022 at 15:28
I think that William D. Drake would be a good choice. He is an accomplished songwriter and musician with competent solo albums and has been involved in various projects where he wasn't the lead or "main" composer. He seems affable and is experienced but still youthful and healthy to my knowledge.
For his group name, I rather like The Fishmongers ("We fish bring").
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: January 27 2022 at 15:43
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 28 2022 at 00:25
cstack3 wrote:
I've thought about this over many years, and my main "cornerstone" prog musician would have to be John Wetton!
The guy could do it all...from glam (Roxy Music) to Genesis covers (his amazing work with Steve Hackett) and everything in between!!
Having seen him with LTIA era KC, Asia, and UK, I was always impressed at his talent for singing his heart out while playing complicated, fast lines on bass guitar!
Here, please enjoy!
After I originally posted my choice (Emerson) I went away and thought about it and then came up with John Wetton as another great choice. Such a fantastic bass player but also one of the great English baritone's voices in rock music.
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 28 2022 at 00:28
moshkito wrote:
if there was ONE PERSON, that would fit this thread, it would be EDGAR FROESE, specially as he commandeered so many versions of the band, and it seemed like it always got better, when you watch the videos of so many of their shows. Not to mention that the music itself is incredible.
I like this choice as well for sure
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: January 29 2022 at 08:12
richardh wrote:
moshkito wrote:
if there was ONE PERSON, that would fit this thread, it would be EDGAR FROESE, specially as he commandeered so many versions of the band, and it seemed like it always got better, when you watch the videos of so many of their shows. Not to mention that the music itself is incredible.
I like this choice as well for sure
Hi,
One funny bit ... sort of. When David Bowie was in Berlin, he wanted BADLY to have Edgar play guitar on one song or two, but DB was having problems finding his "voice" in the song according to the producer, and eventually EF left and told DB that this was his music and he could not add a whole lot to it, and make it better. AND, I think that Edgar did not like the idea of a "song" limiting his ability to fly, and I think this is the part that DB underestimated, although it did not seem to bother Mr. Fripp in one song when he pretty much solo'd all the way through it ... Heroes. And I bet that DB requested that, to help him define the piece of music.
David Bowie might be another good choice for the "supergosh" idea!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Posted By: Cinema
Date Posted: January 30 2022 at 09:01
I’d probably have to go with Dave Kerman from 5UU’s. He’s a totally phenomenal, but underrated, drummer and composer. Another go-to would be Gavin Harrison, arguably one of the greatest drummers ever. Lastly, Steven Wilson … the guy is amazing.
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 31 2022 at 03:32
^ Have to admit that's a name I haven't come across before.
If we are going down the drummer being the cornerstone of the band and also being able to supply creativity then Neil Peart is so far out in front its ridiculous. More the question is , why on earth wouldn't you want this guy?!
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: January 31 2022 at 04:13
One issue I’d have with adopting Peart as the cornerstone of my band now is that he died. My choice would me more lively. I thought about someone who I thought would work well now for the kind of music I like. In terms of creativity when it comes to drummers, Christian Vander comes to mind (though I would rather go for someone a little younger for longevity). I think it would be very hard to convince me that Pearl has supplied more creativity than all the other drummers. He wouldn’t have been my choice as a dream go-to but to each their own. I don’t think he’s the most creative or versatile, and am not that big on Rush.
I like Dave Kerman too. Tatsuya Yoshida and Chris Cutler have been a couple other of my favourite drummers and creative talents that work as cornerstone.
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: January 31 2022 at 04:46
Logan wrote:
I like Dave Kerman too. Tatsuya Yoshida and Chris Cutler have been a couple other of my favourite drummers and creative talents that work as cornerstone.
Those 3 for me too, and they've all be involved in a number of different bands and have run at least one, Yoshida has been involved in a ridiculous amount of creative bands.
------------- Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: January 31 2022 at 05:27
Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:
Logan wrote:
I like Dave Kerman too. Tatsuya Yoshida and Chris Cutler have been a couple other of my favourite drummers and creative talents that work as cornerstone.
Those 3 for me too, and they've all be involved in a number of different bands and have run at least one, Yoshida has been involved in a ridiculous amount of creative bands.
All three are creative, show versatility, have been involved in different projects and are accomplished musicians. Tatsuya Yoshida has been an incredibly busy musician, and very creative projects. What energy on the kit and all of those projects. With Peart, I’m not aware of him doing much outside of Rush and I don’t know that he been really pushing the envelope throughout his career. I’m not knocking him, just sometimes surprised at the pedestal he is often put on both as a drummer and as a creative talent generally — seen many people who present the attitude that he is obviously the best despite their ignorance when it comes to a great many others, so contrarians respond that Peart is particularly overrated.
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: January 31 2022 at 06:31
Logan wrote:
One issue I’d have with adopting Peart as the cornerstone of my band now is that he died. My choice would me more lively. I thought about someone who I thought would work well now for the kind of music I like. In terms of creativity when it comes to drummers, Christian Vander comes to mind (though I would rather go for someone a little younger for longevity). I think it would be very hard to convince me that Pearl has supplied more creativity than all the other drummers. He wouldn’t have been my choice as a dream go-to but to each their own. I don’t think he’s the most creative or versatile, and am not that big on Rush.
When originally thinking up the premises for this post, I really had in mind the artist in his/her prime--so I guess this would be a Prog-in-Heaven kind of Supergroup. (But then, in heaven, who knows, maybe Keith Emerson would chum up with Franz Liszt or Wolfy Mozart? Maybe Fripp would hang with Bach and Telemann. Maybe Eno and Czukay would become pals with Picasso, Cocteau and Satie. Maybe Liebezeit would become a Tibetan monk. etc., etc.)
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: January 31 2022 at 06:47
^ It’s not even so far-fetched that we one need accept some supernatural, unearthly heaven. Celebrities, including musicians are being resurrected digitally using holographic technology and other things. One could create a digital supergroup. “Ooh heaven is a place on earth”. Maybe like in a Black Mirror universe, dead and not dead musicians digital copies will be interacting and performing on servers.
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: January 31 2022 at 07:06
Mike Keneally. He can do it all, and he’s probably the friendliest “name” musician I’ve ever met.
------------- My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.
-Kehlog Albran
Posted By: Cinema
Date Posted: January 31 2022 at 07:56
I have to admit, I've never been much of a Peart fan. He was a great drummer and lyricist, but I never found his playing particularly interesting, at least not to my ear. But that's just me.
Posted By: Progmind
Date Posted: January 31 2022 at 08:24
My cornerstone player would be Paul Mc Cartneybecause:
- he can get along with anybody,
- he can play any kind of music, His work with the Beatles and solo can prove that
- he works well in the studio or live on stage,
- he has a great, fun-loving, personality, that does not get caught up in interpersonal squabbles,
- he is a virtuoso musician(not just bass player)
- he is all business yet very adaptable to any recording, creative, touring conditions,
- is tireless, has boundless energy
- LOVES music!
Posted By: axeman
Date Posted: February 01 2022 at 14:44
If he would do it, I'd love to see a collaboration between Steven Wilson, with Steve Hackett as co-composer.
Hackett can do compositions, including orchestra, so you have a complete range there.
Plus, a great album is going to need a first-rate producer. Wilson has been remastering the greats, with much approval, so he's my idea of a producer for whatever project.
------------- -John
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 02 2022 at 00:35
Logan wrote:
One issue I’d have with adopting Peart as the cornerstone of my band now is that he died. My choice would me more lively. .
I could do the rolling eyes thing but hey ho
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: February 02 2022 at 05:05
^ Rather than dead funny, sorry that that comes across as a tasteless and bad dad joke. It's true that I only thought about living people for this exercise when I saw the topic, rather than a dream option or holographically/ virtually resurrected option.
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: February 02 2022 at 06:03
HolyMoly wrote:
Mike Keneally. He can do it all, and he’s probably the friendliest “name” musician I’ve ever met.
Another great one flying under the radar! Like Steve Unruh!
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: February 02 2022 at 06:05
axeman wrote:
If he would do it, I'd love to see a collaboration between Steven Wilson, with Steve Hackett as co-composer.
Hackett can do compositions, including orchestra, so you have a complete range there.
Plus, a great album is going to need a first-rate producer. Wilson has been remastering the greats, with much approval, so he's my idea of a producer for whatever project.
Now this is a GREAT idea!
I've always felt that Steve Hackett's solo career needed someone to kind of reign him in--an objective collaborateur.
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: February 02 2022 at 06:31
HolyMoly wrote:
Mike Keneally. He can do it all, and he’s probably the friendliest “name” musician I’ve ever met.
Yes, the Great Mike Keneally is quite versatile, plays guitar and keyboards, is a fantastic composer, and an overall great guy, who can get along with anyone.
Posted By: Progishness
Date Posted: February 02 2022 at 11:17
My cornerstone would be someone like Roger Waters, if only he could get on with his cohorts. That aside he is/was a great lyricist, *architect, concepts & ideas man, and band leader. Not to mention being a more than decent bassist & vocalist.
*in a musical sense
------------- "We're going to need a bigger swear jar."
Chloë Grace Moretz as Mindy McCready aka 'Hit Girl' in Kick-Ass 2
Posted By: Michael919
Date Posted: February 02 2022 at 16:12
Someone beat me to Steven Wilson, so I am going to go a completely different direction.
Danny Carey
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: February 02 2022 at 19:33
Progishness wrote:
My cornerstone would be someone like Roger Waters, if only he could get on with his cohorts. That aside he is/was a great lyricist, *architect, concepts & ideas man, and band leader. Not to mention being a more than decent bassist & vocalist.
*in a musical sense
Actually, I think you are right. If only he could het on with the other members of the band... and yet, for a little while, they did get along... well enough to work together, and magic happened.
Posted By: Progishness
Date Posted: February 03 2022 at 02:32
Dellinger wrote:
Progishness wrote:
My cornerstone would be someone like Roger Waters, if only he could get on with his cohorts. That aside he is/was a great lyricist, *architect, concepts & ideas man, and band leader. Not to mention being a more than decent bassist & vocalist.
*in a musical sense
Actually, I think you are right. If only he could het on with the other members of the band... and yet, for a little while, they did get along... well enough to work together, and magic happened.
Up to around the time they were making 'Wish You Were Here' PF seemed to function in reasonable harmony with two artists (Wright & Gilmour) and two architects (Waters and Mason), but from the making of 'Animals' onwards Roger started taking more and more control, to the point of 'Final Cut' being more or less a Waters solo album.
------------- "We're going to need a bigger swear jar."
Chloë Grace Moretz as Mindy McCready aka 'Hit Girl' in Kick-Ass 2
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: February 03 2022 at 19:24
Progishness wrote:
Dellinger wrote:
Progishness wrote:
My cornerstone would be someone like Roger Waters, if only he could get on with his cohorts. That aside he is/was a great lyricist, *architect, concepts & ideas man, and band leader. Not to mention being a more than decent bassist & vocalist.
*in a musical sense
Actually, I think you are right. If only he could het on with the other members of the band... and yet, for a little while, they did get along... well enough to work together, and magic happened.
Up to around the time they were making 'Wish You Were Here' PF seemed to function in reasonable harmony with two artists (Wright & Gilmour) and two architects (Waters and Mason), but from the making of 'Animals' onwards Roger started taking more and more control, to the point of 'Final Cut' being more or less a Waters solo album.
I don't buy into the Waters dominated Animals album. On that one, the music for Dogs was written by Gilmour, as I understand, and Waters gets credits too because of the lyrics, and Dog takes almost half of the album, and is usually considered the favourite track on the album, so I think it's a fairly even album comoposition-wise.
Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: June 12 2024 at 20:04
Vergilius - s/t (double album)
line up: Nick D'Virgilio - drums Virgil Donati - drums
------------- “On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.” — Ernest Vong
Posted By: GoodDay
Date Posted: June 12 2024 at 21:25
This will certainly be an unusual take and maybe one that isn't received very well.... but John Paul Jones would be my pick easily. I would be extremely interested to see what kind of prog music he could crank out of a mellotron, organ, piano, electric bass or any of the other various instruments he played. While Jimmy is typically seen as the mastermind behind the sound of the band, it is still true that some of their most unique sounding records feature a prolonged JPJ intro on a keyboard. He is a great musical mind and understands the art very well.
I also believe that he would gel with nearly any artist that he recruited into his group, he seems eager to please and very likable. Whereas some of these other options being thrown out would most likely clash with their band mates and cause issues.