Did Yes "drop the ball" when Bruford left?
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Topic: Did Yes "drop the ball" when Bruford left?
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Subject: Did Yes "drop the ball" when Bruford left?
Date Posted: November 05 2021 at 16:31
This is another one that just popped in my head. Being that I haven't done any polls in such a long time I figured it's not a big deal if I did two in a row(more or less). 
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Replies:
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: November 05 2021 at 16:34
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No They lost a great drummer, but no...
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Posted By: JD
Date Posted: November 05 2021 at 16:41
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What does that even mean? Are they some sort of sports team? Are you asking if they chose the wrong drummer as a replacement? Of course not. And it's not like the music took a left turn off a cliff or anything. Well...at least not until some of their later albums. ------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: November 05 2021 at 16:54
| "Drop the ball" as in go off course or lose momentum. "Drop the ball" was the first metaphor or description I thought of. I apologize if that's vague or not clear to non native English speakers or whoever. |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: November 05 2021 at 17:04
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I know that there are more than two genders, but giving four alternatives to Yes and No must be something of a record. FOUR! I'm tempted to vote "Other", but I'll vote "Yes" because they still were Yes afterwards.  (I know you don't share my humour, so in fact I vote No, honestly. Bruford was a big loss though.)
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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: November 05 2021 at 17:15
Come on. You guys should know I'm not a fan of binary polls by now. Plus sometimes I think just yes and no doesn't cut it but I wanted to include those as well.
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Lewian wrote:Posted By: TheLionOfPrague
Date Posted: November 05 2021 at 17:20
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Tales is a controversial album for a lot of people, but I don't think Bruford is the reason. Personally, I think TFTO is a very good album (even if not as good as Fragile and CTTE especially), but even if I didn't rate it, as I said, I don't think lack of Bruford would be the reason. And aside from that, they bounced back with Relayer which I think is their 2nd best album and GFTO which is a minor classic as well. So no, I think he's one of the best drummers ever and two of their top 3 albums were with him on the band but the band had more than enough talent to survive his departure and he was very well replaced with Alan White. ------------- I shook my head and smiled a whisper knowing all about the place |
Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: November 05 2021 at 17:24
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You know, now I'm really confused, so maybe I should vote "maybe"...  Maybe not... or not really...? Is there a direction? An other? ------------- The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: November 05 2021 at 17:43
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I vote for option #5 because Tales was a temporary drop (not because of the drumming by the way). Options #2 and #4 are valid as well - for me. ------------- 
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: November 05 2021 at 17:44
Another joke poll, DMAFKC?  We already know the answer is: NO. Reason #1. Bruford left of his own accord to join King Crimson. Reasons #2-7+. TfTO, Relayer, GftO, Tormato, Drama, 90125, etc. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: November 05 2021 at 17:49
| If the albums they made after Bruford left were "dropping the ball" then that's fine with me. |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: November 05 2021 at 17:53
If dropping the ball means getting "The Gates of Delirium," "Sound Chaser," "Awaken," "Parallels," "On the Silent Wings of Freedom," "Machine Messiah," and "Tempus Fugit," I'm all for it! ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: November 05 2021 at 18:08
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Absolutely not. They went on to their most elaborate album, for better or worse, and then their best after that. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: November 05 2021 at 18:12
This is what I was hoping at least one person would say. Which one do you consider their best though? Relayer? Most seem to consider their prime period to be TYA to CTTE and especially close to the edge so it was with that common opinion in mind that prompted me to start this poll.
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Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: November 05 2021 at 18:18
| although Bruford is probably my fav drummer--Alan White is an amazing versatile drummer and added an earthiness and heaviness to the sound which opened up a lot of new directions for the band--can't imagine Bill on Relayer. One of their best albums. |
Posted By: VianaProghead
Date Posted: November 05 2021 at 18:23
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Definitely no. They lost a great drummer, one of my favourites, but no way.
------------- "PROG IS MY FERRARI". Jem Godfrey (Frost*) |
Posted By: Neu!mann
Date Posted: November 05 2021 at 19:42
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No, they dropped the ball when they let Patrick Moraz go and re-hired Rick Wakeman: a backward-looking decision based entirely on commerce. A lot of good music would follow, but nothing as challenging as Relayer: the last truly "progressive" Yes album... ------------- "we can change the world without anyone noticing the difference" - Franco Falsini |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: November 05 2021 at 20:11
| ^ Come on, we would never have had Awaken as we know it if Wakeman didn't come back, and I can't imagine the version with Moraz could have ended up any better. However, no, they didn't drop the ball nor anything when Bruford left, and I find it a rather odd question given how they were still going strong until Tormato. |
Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: November 05 2021 at 20:32
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I don't know what the difference between yes and no and other is, so I'm going to vote for buy one get one free. ------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: November 05 2021 at 20:43
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ONLY if Bruford was a ball -------------  https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: November 05 2021 at 22:20
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bruford is definitely the better drummer if that answers the question ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: November 05 2021 at 23:47
This. While Bill Bruford is my favorite drummer, Alan White's drumming on TFTO takes Yes to a new level. Patrick Moraz on Relayer takes them to a new level again. I think it all went wrong when Rick Wakeman returned to Yes. Alan White and Steve Howe were developing a harder edge with the sort of music they were doing with Patrick Moraz. Wakeman returned the group to a more folksy - pop - classical feel which the band had been moving away from. The group survived GFTO only because Wakeman liked what Jon Anderson was doing and was able to enhance the music. The split was always inevitable when it occurred with the Tormato album.
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: November 06 2021 at 00:39
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I voted "not really." Bruf was getting bored with Yes from what I've read, and he wanted to play in King Crimson so he could "play some wrong notes." White was an excellent replacement, his work on "Relayer" is sublime. I saw Bruford with Yes for the Reunion Tour, he said he was bored out of his mind. However, I think he did very well with Anderson Bruford Wakeman & Howe, so who knows. ------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!! |
Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: November 06 2021 at 01:57
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I prefer Bruford as a drummer, but my favourite Yes albums all tend to be after he left. I think only CttE would make it to my top five Yes albums, from the Bruford era. For me personally, I think losing Moraz to take back Wakeman created far more of a dropping the ball moment, than Bruford voluntarily leaving the band. [EDIT] I posted this without reading what others had said. I see now that I’m not the first to have recognised losing Moraz as being more of a dropped ball moment than Bruford leaving. 🤗 *note to self* - Read before posting…. 🙄 ------------- https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect |
Posted By: Mormegil
Date Posted: November 06 2021 at 05:00
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Mmmm, no. ------------- Welcome to the middle of the film. |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: November 06 2021 at 05:30
Exactly.
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 06 2021 at 07:44
Hi, Bill does not exactly say a whole lot about leaving YES, in his book, which concentrates on trivial matters more often than not, and is not a sort of tell all book at all. It is also possible that his residuals from YES material are still large enough for him to say anything at all, and rock the boat! I agree that he is a great drummer, and he shows it in KC, with the sad fact that a lot of the "remixes" done from KC during his time, do not show BB very well. Witness a song done by Rachel Flowers, where she DOES take the time to add the little touches and trinkets that became a signature 35 years when KC had 3 drummers, so one could do all the little fun stuff! You could easily have said that it was BB that created a lot of those bits instead! Time comes and goes, and never does it look any different the next day, other than a few clouds, and maybe a little warmer or colder. In essence, BB had decided that he wanted to try something new, and I believe he misjudged TFTO a bit, which would have been nice for him, although I have a feeling that there were passages when his style of cutesy, or edgy jazzy bits, would (apparently) not fit at all, and in this sense, Alan White did a great job staying focused on what was needed and requested for the players to do their thing and shine. BB went on to do some outstanding things with KC and on his own. To say he dropped the ball, is kind of sad, and he does not deserve that kind of attack. Pretty soon we have to blame the dog, or the cat, for it all happening, and throw them out the door, just so we can live out our life of continuous rejection of the way life is, and how things turn out. Our reactive ideals are not what people are about.
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: November 06 2021 at 11:01
Maybe you misread the OP - it says "Yes dropped the ball", not Bill.
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: November 06 2021 at 11:32
From what I've read, Yes treated Patrick Moraz very poorly, including withholding payment. From an online interview with Moraz (original link didn't work) https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/moraz-departure-from-yes.438474/" rel="nofollow - https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/moraz-departure-from-yes.438474/ – Were you forced to leave or parting company was friendly?
Unfortunately, I was forced to leave. And even though, at the time, the split “was not made to appear acrimonious”, I suffered extremely and extensively. To be “asked to leave” so suddenly put me in a lot of turmoil and disturbance. The fact is, I was never compensated for anything. I never ever got paid for any of my tour participation in the extremely successful and extensive YES Tour of 1976, which comprised about 65 concerts, many of them in front of sold-out audiences of more than 100,000 people. After all, as a member of the band, I was entitled to a 20% cut from what the band was getting. I don’t like to dwell into negatives, however, I can tell you that I had absolutely no desire to want to leave YES, at the time, in November of 1976. We had just finished the biggest tour YES had ever done, the “Bicentennial Tour”, a huge, extremely successful tour for YES. Somehow, it had been decided that we would go and record, in my own country, Switzerland, what became the album “Going for the One”, which we had extensively composed, developed and rehearsed during the course of 1976 (and even before that). There was no reason in the world for me to want to leave the band! Also, I understood, much later, that Rick was already in town, with his own crew, when I was still in the group, and I was still part of YES. In addition, it was an extremely complicated and difficult situation for me to be stranded, on the street, with my baby daughter who was only one-month old and her mother, without any transport or money, in the cold winter of Switzerland. Then the fight for survival to stay alive, it all became surreal. ------------- I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!! |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: November 06 2021 at 11:47
^Awful.  ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: November 07 2021 at 11:03
------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: November 08 2021 at 01:06
| Alan White was actually a phenominal drummer as proved on Rick Wakeman's Six Wives album were both he and Bruford get 3 songs each. Ann Of Cleves may well have my favourite drumming. I believe that Bruford improved as a drummer after he left Yes and was challenged a lot more by Fripp and crew. That said Yes were amazingly creative in the period when he was there and I suspect he was a slightly more versatile drummer than White who was more talented on the heavy side. I tend to agree that Relayer was the most 'progressive' of the post Bruford albums but that was largely down to Moraz. Pity that Moraz and Bruford never played together..oh hold on they did lol! |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: November 08 2021 at 09:30
Seems like Alan will forever be in Broof's shadow for some fans. For me, the "classic" Yes line-up is Squire, Howe, Anderson, Wakeman and White. That's the line-up that recorded TFTO, Going for the One and KTA 1/2. 'Nuff said!
And those are killer albums. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |