Big Big Train - Common Ground
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
Forum Description: Make or seek recommendations and discuss specific prog albums
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=126952
Printed Date: February 22 2025 at 15:35 Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Big Big Train - Common Ground
Posted By: foregonillusions
Subject: Big Big Train - Common Ground
Date Posted: July 30 2021 at 23:46
BBT's latest opus recently dropped, and somebody already cross-posted their review to the Archives. What are your thoughts so far? To reviewers, do you anticipate a positive, middling, or negative review in these nascent days?
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Replies:
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: August 02 2021 at 01:14
I've had 4 listens so far and enjoying it a lot.
My initial thoughts are that they are stretching out a bit without losing their core style and sound. I like the use of different vocalists on a few tracks and assume that Rikard is singing track 2 (All The Love We Can Give). It does sound like his lovely baritone judging by the Gungfly albums I own. There is also an excellent instrumental track Apollo (written by Nick) and another brilliant epic to add to their cannon Atlantic Cable (written by Greg). Hopefully it will drag in a few new fans while retaining their hard earned gains. nb I've booked a ticket for Bath Forum next year 19 March. Going on my own so if anyone is going that wants to meet up for a drink let me know by pm.
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Posted By: Squonk19
Date Posted: August 02 2021 at 02:04
^ Check out the FaceBook group - The Bath Line - 2022 Big Big Train Tour - which is an offshoot from the main BBT group. Over 50 people and I’m sure plans for get-togethers will form nearer the time. I’m on the York and Manchester ones.
------------- “Living in their pools, they soon forget about the sea.”
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Posted By: Squonk19
Date Posted: August 02 2021 at 02:37
Another great album - fresh ideas along with a typical BBT feel. My current track rating is: The Strangest Times **** All The Love We Can Give *** Black With Ink **** Dandelion Clock ***** Headwaters **** Apollo ***** Common Ground **** Atlantic Cable ***** Endnotes *****
That’s an unweighted 4.33 score (in progarchives style) for me.
Tracks 1-3 took most time to click for me. A few have not liked the topical lockdown lyrics, but For me they provide a nice, almost innocent sense of time and place. Track 2 has David singing in a lower register and Nick contributes the higher register vocals more. Many like the freshness of this approach, although I miss David’s usual vocal style here. Credit for him wanting to stretch his range more, though. However, the key is treating the song on its merits alone and not necessarily a typical BBT song. It is growing on me. Track 3 has multi-vocals, but for many it is the hint of Kim Wilde’s Kids In America that is distracting. However, the more-instrumental second half more than banishes those minor concerns and is very progressive. Track 4 is more typical BBT loveliness and Rikard’s keyboard interlude in Track 5 works very well before the power and majesty of the instrumental Track 6 - which should be a real live proggy highlight. It works well within the album setting, as does the title track on Track 7 - once again typical BBT in structure. Track 8 is the highlight for me - a true BBT epic that is getting some rave postings. The Final track, Track 9, is proving equally popular with most, with real emotion and beautiful brass work as it concludes.
With the many personnel changes, I think Greg, Nick, Rikard and David have found a balance between keeping things recognisably BBT, but also pushing the envelope more - and whilst the earlier tracks require more plays to get used to those differences, it is worthwhile. Track 4 onwards hits more immediately. Nick seems to be getting more freedom in driving the content on this one, along with the others. I feel the drums, and Greg’s bass, are higher in the mix too.
The general response is very favourable, with many claiming it’s their best one ever, whilst a few others feel it is a step away from Grand Tour, but still very good. A few say that they are needing more repeat plays to fully soak it up, especially the earlier trio of tracks, but I’m not picking up anyone who doesn’t like it, full stop (in the way SW’s The Future Bites divided that fan base).
Those familiar with, and liking, the traditional BBT sound will lap it up, but those who maybe were less won over by it from previous albums, might find the sound has progressed as well and could find much to enjoy.
------------- “Living in their pools, they soon forget about the sea.”
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: August 03 2021 at 15:14
^ It's seems very odd to me that David would try and sing in such a low register on track 2 when there is a natural baritone in the band . Agreed that it works very well though. btw thanks for the info on the FaceBook group.
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Posted By: foregonillusions
Date Posted: August 03 2021 at 23:27
Appreciate your thoughts, gentlemen. Apollo is a fantastic track; one of the best instrumentals I've heard this year. That aside, does anybody worry that some of the tracks on this album will sound dated due to its relation with current events? (They're also pretty corny, I think.)
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Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: August 04 2021 at 07:54
I'm kinda blown away. Addition by subtraction? I loved Grand Tour (actually my favorite of 2019) but this feels more focused. It's plenty weird too. David's odd baritone, the Elton John thing on the opening track, "Black As Ink" sounding for all the world like "Kids In America" and a Dave Gregory-less version of the band doing their best XTC impersonation ("Dandelion Clock.")
And the epic is perfect. Just wow.
------------- The Prog Corner
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: August 06 2021 at 05:17
foregonillusions wrote:
Appreciate your thoughts, gentlemen. Apollo is a fantastic track; one of the best instrumentals I've heard this year. That aside, does anybody worry that some of the tracks on this album will sound dated due to its relation with current events? (They're also pretty corny, I think.)
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in twenty years they will reform as BBT2 and do a follow up album 'Return To Common Ground' ....well probably not 
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Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Date Posted: August 06 2021 at 06:59
Yeah you have to be pretty tone deaf to think giving your music COVID related lyrics is a good idea. Basing your subject matter on something that almost universally reminds people of a miserable time in their lives. Especially with phrases like "The Strangest Times" the type of sh*t we heard on every commercial for a good year. Instantly dated, but with that said, I think this is a strong release from the band, even the aforementioned song. I have to listen to it more but it does kinda of hinder my enjoyment of the album a little bit.
------------- The sun has left the sky... ...Now you can close your eyes
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Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: August 08 2021 at 14:33
dougmcauliffe wrote:
Yeah you have to be pretty tone deaf to think giving your music COVID related lyrics is a good idea. Basing your subject matter on something that almost universally reminds people of a miserable time in their lives. Especially with phrases like "The Strangest Times" the type of sh*t we heard on every commercial for a good year. Instantly dated, but with that said, I think this is a strong release from the band, even the aforementioned song. I have to listen to it more but it does kinda of hinder my enjoyment of the album a little bit. |
same
------------- “On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.” — Ernest Vong
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: August 14 2021 at 00:34
Tying music to a point in history is what makes a lot of prog interesting. Nostalgia is also a very strange thing in itself. Many people looked back on WW2 as a time of unity and purpose and not just a lot of death.
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Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: August 16 2021 at 00:43
richardh wrote:
Tying music to a point in history is what makes a lot of prog interesting. Nostalgia is also a very strange thing in itself. Many people looked back on WW2 as a time of unity and purpose and not just a lot of death. |
I maintain COVID is going to bring out a lot of creativity in the bands we love, many of whom are bringing out new albums this year. See how it transpires by the end of the year.
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Posted By: TheEliteExtremophile
Date Posted: August 24 2021 at 00:15
BBT is one of those bands I have simply never, ever understood the hype for. Maybe their music is too major-key for my taste, or maybe it's just too pillowy. Either way, this just feels like another unimaginative slog to me, and I struggled to make my way through it. It's not bad. It's just dull, and it failed to grab my attention.
Then again, I acknowledge I'm well in the minority on this topic.
------------- https://theeliteextremophile.com" rel="nofollow - Check my reviews of recent prog releases!
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Posted By: A Crimson Mellotron
Date Posted: August 24 2021 at 04:11
Heard the singles, not impressed, and the album was not on my to-hear list anyway, so I guess for now I will skip this one. I get a feeling BBT are also beginning to repeat themselves a little, but to the point where it becomes uninteresting; their works around the beginning of the 2010s are really good, though!
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: August 24 2021 at 05:05
A Crimson Mellotron wrote:
Heard the singles, not impressed, and the album was not on my to-hear list anyway, so I guess for now I will skip this one. I get a feeling BBT are also beginning to repeat themselves a little, but to the point where it becomes uninteresting; their works around the beginning of the 2010s are really good, though!
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I kind of agree, their last few albums have not really grabbed me like some of the earlier ones did.
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: August 25 2021 at 00:31
I would argue their pinnacle was Folklore which balanced the catchy hooks with composition and brilliant playing about right. English Electric was actually slightly too poppy to grab my attention straight away. I think the latest is a definite departure and feels more varied. It needs to settle a bit as I always argue. BBT although accessible have a lot of depth musically and that gets ignored sometimes if the hooks aren't apparent. They are the nearest thing to a modern day Genesis whereas most modern neo can sound very metal to my ears , BBT are not that!
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Posted By: RoadLASER
Date Posted: September 26 2021 at 08:15
A Crimson Mellotron wrote:
Heard the singles, not impressed, and the album was not on my to-hear list anyway, so I guess for now I will skip this one. I get a feeling BBT are also beginning to repeat themselves a little, but to the point where it becomes uninteresting; their works around the beginning of the 2010s are really good, though!
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Agree. It seems to me that this is the weakest album in discography.
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: September 30 2021 at 08:12
foregonillusions wrote:
BBT's latest opus recently dropped, and somebody already cross-posted their review to the Archives. What are your thoughts so far? To reviewers, do you anticipate a positive, middling, or negative review in these nascent days?
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Hi,
I've been trying to find a location where I might be able to listen to the whole thing, but so far, hearing a couple of songs on the tube, in general, I'm not impressed, and I'm already starting to feel like this is just another over blown band, that is very nice ... but it's ability and creativity is now ... forced ... in my estimation. The three pieces I have heard did not raise any attention or interest in the rest of the album at all, and I have given up looking.
Honestly, while not great, it is a nice listen, but not enough to excite the inner muscles that have been hearing progressive and experimental music for almost 55 years. It's just sad to think that the only thing they can do is "songs" that might have a meaning or two ... like you and I don't have an opinion that we think makes great song copy?
I want something new ... something to shake my britches from here to heck and back ... and something "conventional" is not the way I do not think!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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Posted By: RoadLASER
Date Posted: September 30 2021 at 08:17
moshkito wrote:
Hi,
I've been trying to find a location where I might be able to listen to the whole thing, but so far, hearing a couple of songs on the tube, in general, I'm not impressed, and I'm already starting to feel like this is just another over blown band, that is very nice ... but it's ability and creativity is now ... forced ... in my estimation. The three pieces I have heard did not raise any attention or interest in the rest of the album at all, and I have given up looking. |
You can hear the entire album on Bandcamp.
http://bigbigtrain.bandcamp.com/album/common-ground" rel="nofollow - http://bigbigtrain.bandcamp.com/album/common-ground
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Posted By: Zeph
Date Posted: September 30 2021 at 23:53
I listened quite a bit to some of their previous albums, but the last three hasn't quite caught my attention. They feel too similar to my ear and I'm not able to get excited about it. Common Ground is perhaps a bit different, but at the same time not caught my ear.
It's easy listening and very well made music, just not that interesting.
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 01 2021 at 02:21
moshkito wrote:
foregonillusions wrote:
BBT's latest opus recently dropped, and somebody already cross-posted their review to the Archives. What are your thoughts so far? To reviewers, do you anticipate a positive, middling, or negative review in these nascent days?
|
Hi,
I've been trying to find a location where I might be able to listen to the whole thing, but so far, hearing a couple of songs on the tube, in general, I'm not impressed, and I'm already starting to feel like this is just another over blown band, that is very nice ... but it's ability and creativity is now ... forced ... in my estimation. The three pieces I have heard did not raise any attention or interest in the rest of the album at all, and I have given up looking.
Honestly, while not great, it is a nice listen, but not enough to excite the inner muscles that have been hearing progressive and experimental music for almost 55 years. It's just sad to think that the only thing they can do is "songs" that might have a meaning or two ... like you and I don't have an opinion that we think makes great song copy?
I want something new ... something to shake my britches from here to heck and back ... and something "conventional" is not the way I do not think! |
I totally thought that back in 2012 when I first heard English Electric part one and stated it more or less in my review.
http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=888016" rel="nofollow - BIG BIG TRAIN English Electric (Part One) music review by richardh (progarchives.com)
All I can say is that since then I've purchased nearly all their albums and will be seeing them play live for the third time next year. I suppose one reason is that they write a lot of lyrics about English industrial history and that plays into my natural patriotic spirit. I also like trains!
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Posted By: essexboyinwales
Date Posted: October 01 2021 at 03:15
richardh wrote:
moshkito wrote:
foregonillusions wrote:
BBT's latest opus recently dropped, and somebody already cross-posted their review to the Archives. What are your thoughts so far? To reviewers, do you anticipate a positive, middling, or negative review in these nascent days?
|
Hi,
I've been trying to find a location where I might be able to listen to the whole thing, but so far, hearing a couple of songs on the tube, in general, I'm not impressed, and I'm already starting to feel like this is just another over blown band, that is very nice ... but it's ability and creativity is now ... forced ... in my estimation. The three pieces I have heard did not raise any attention or interest in the rest of the album at all, and I have given up looking.
Honestly, while not great, it is a nice listen, but not enough to excite the inner muscles that have been hearing progressive and experimental music for almost 55 years. It's just sad to think that the only thing they can do is "songs" that might have a meaning or two ... like you and I don't have an opinion that we think makes great song copy?
I want something new ... something to shake my britches from here to heck and back ... and something "conventional" is not the way I do not think! |
I totally thought that back in 2012 when I first heard English Electric part one and stated it more or less in my review.
http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=888016" rel="nofollow - BIG BIG TRAIN English Electric (Part One) music review by richardh (progarchives.com)
All I can say is that since then I've purchased nearly all their albums and will be seeing them play live for the third time next year. I suppose one reason is that they write a lot of lyrics about English industrial history and that plays into my natural patriotic spirit. I also like trains!
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Your review is a great example of why people should never be allowed to post a review within the first 6 months or 20 listens of an album 
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: October 01 2021 at 07:09
essexboyinwales wrote:
... Your review is a great example of why people should never be allowed to post a review within the first 6 months or 20 listens of an album  |
Hi,
Again, 50 years ago, you KNEW from the first listen if it mattered or not. But today there is so much bleach and fake color on so much music that no one knows the difference and they need 20 listens to find out what ELP, KC, PF, YES, JT, AD2, TD, KS ... and so many others were trying to do.
If it took 20 listens, half of us would not bother with a review, to bore you and the fans with! 
Get on with the program! It's either progressive or not. And if it took 20 listens, it's just another top ten hit, not progressive or important and valuable to the annals of my crap!  
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 02 2021 at 02:35
...well it may be important to the annals of my crap though. We only value our own crap. Anyhow at some point I just got very tired of trying to judge whether something is 'progressive' or not. There is even a debate about what that word means in the context of music . Keith Emerson considered it was more about the way music was composed (ie not repetitious) which here we just call 'Symphonic Prog'. BBT are somewhat symph prog related but not the full blown thing . They have hooks in their music damn them!
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Posted By: essexboyinwales
Date Posted: October 04 2021 at 09:23
At the end of the day, some people like them and others don't.
That's how it's always been with all types of music.
Apart from Bohemian Rhapsody. Everyone loves that pile of prog!
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Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: October 04 2021 at 16:29
I've always felt that the Dave Longdon-Dave Gregory-Nick D'Virgilio era BBT to be a bit too bombastic for my tastes--though I could sense the power and mastery in the new blood with the amazing The Underfall Yard. Now that Dave Gregory, Rachel Hall, and Andy Poole (along with Greg Spawton, the band's founder) have left/retired, I was worried, but I like the direction expressed on Common Ground--some movement back to a more delicate, pastoral sound, less bombast and prog-for-prog's sake.
Yes "The Strangest Times" is cheesy--and the next two songs weak, but after that there are some of the best BBT songs I've heard in a long time--since English Electric, Part 1. "Apollo" is definitely one of the best prog epics I've heard from 2021 and "Endnotes" reminds me of their most emotional, most powerful beauties--like "Winchester from St. Giles Hill", and "Dandelion" is beautifully simple pastoral prog folk at its finest.
For those of you who've never managed to connect very well to the BBT of the last 12 years, I recommend giving a 2007's The Difference Machine a try. It remains, to this day, my very favorite BBT album.
All in all, I like Common Ground.
------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 08 2021 at 05:45
^ never thought of them ever as being bombastic but then I am an ELP fan and these things are relative!
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Posted By: Earl of Mar
Date Posted: October 12 2021 at 10:39
I feel this is the weakest of the Longdon albums. It's not a poor album it's just not to me at least, terribly exciting. People have been very positive about the " epic" Atlantic Cable track. Compared to East Coast Racer, Brooklands Suite or Voyager it's average. Apollo is probably my fav favourite track. Perhaps the more stripped down sound hasn't done it for me, but I think it's the songwriting that has dipped compared to albums like TUY, EE pt 1 and 2, Folklaw and Grand Tour. Again I have played this album around 20 times and I'm not getting that same vibe from CG. Hope the next one strikes a better chord.
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 12 2021 at 17:10
I'm rambling a bit , but I think there was a clear continuity and consistency from Underfall yard through to The Grand Tour . This is a bit different featuring female vocals and an odd Longdon baritone. I suspect the spell of having such a settled line up has now been broken. However try finding me a better track than The Transit of Venus across the Sun and you've done well. My feeling is that their peak was Folklore ( not a bad or remotely weak track in site) and that a very slow decline set in after that. Eventually all good things come to pass. Most bands best album is around the 4th or 5th (for the sake of argument I am avoiding everything pre Underfall Yard when the line up was different) and BBT are no different imo.
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Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: October 14 2021 at 09:15
I love it.
------------- The Prog Corner
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