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Amorphis for Progressive Metal

Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=126625
Printed Date: November 29 2024 at 19:58
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Amorphis for Progressive Metal
Posted By: javajeff
Subject: Amorphis for Progressive Metal
Date Posted: June 08 2021 at 14:40
I would love to be able to submit reviews for Amorphis. They have amazing riffs and combine many different genres into hard hitting progressive metal.

The Bee:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf_4uvymwRw" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf_4uvymwRw

metalmusicarchives lists 11 albums as progressive metal.
http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/artist/amorphis/?ac=Amorphis" rel="nofollow - http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/artist/amorphis/?ac=Amorphis





Replies:
Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: June 08 2021 at 14:43
I definitely think they should be reconsidered. They have been submitted and rejected before, but I do think they have become more and more prog over the years, and should be reassessed by their latest albums. I can understand why they may have been rejected previously, but the band have…well…progressed since then…. 🤪



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https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect


Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: June 08 2021 at 14:49
I've seen some OBVIOUS (well, I'm assertive here) prog metal bands rejected here. I don't think Amorphis is an outright prog metal band. I think Cradle of Filth is far more progressive than them.

This post has been written by a huge Amorphis fan.

P.S. BTW, I prefer their pre-Joutsen era. Their "new" albums have lost their charm for me, sadly...



Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: June 08 2021 at 15:02
Originally posted by javajeff javajeff wrote:

I would love to be able to submit reviews for Amorphis. They have amazing riffs and combine many different genres into hard hitting progressive metal.

The Bee:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf_4uvymwRw" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf_4uvymwRw

metalmusicarchives lists 11 albums as progressive metal.
http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/artist/amorphis/?ac=Amorphis" rel="nofollow - http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/artist/amorphis/?ac=Amorphis



http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=122381" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=122381


Posted By: javajeff
Date Posted: June 08 2021 at 16:01
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=122381" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=122381


http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=126625" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=126625


Posted By: yam yam
Date Posted: June 08 2021 at 16:08
They've been suggested 8 or 9 times in total since February 2006, 3 times in 2011 alone. The second of those three threads is actually still open, and was revived as recently as May 2018, but despite a couple of prominent special collaborators expressing their desire for them to be included over the years, they have never received sufficient support from the prog metal team as a whole to get them in.

Here are the last three threads:

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=75157" rel="nofollow - January 2011
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=76584" rel="nofollow - March 2011  (revived in May 2018)
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=82260" rel="nofollow - October 2011

Two members of the current prog metal team have previously voted 'yes' for them, and the one who seemed most opposed to their addition no longer seems to be active in the team, since despite his profile on here suggesting he is still a member, he doesn't show up in the progfreak charts anymore.

Talking of progfreak, it seems that the subject of Amorphis's inclusion here was discussed in the collab zone again about four or five months ago:  https://progfreak.com/Amorphis-51491.html?path=pa/recent" rel="nofollow - https://progfreak.com/Amorphis-51491.html?path=pa/recent . That chart certainly looks strange for a rejection lol! The https://progfreak.com/Amorphis-51491.html?path=pa/pm" rel="nofollow - old no votes , of which there were plenty, don't show up in the recent history though.

I guess Amorphis are simply not destined to be included here, and it looks like we just have to accept that I'm afraid.


Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: June 08 2021 at 16:13
Originally posted by yam yam yam yam wrote:

They've been suggested 8 or 9 times in total since February 2006, 3 times in 2011 alone. The second of those three threads is actually still open, and was revived as recently as May 2018, but despite a couple of prominent special collaborators expressing their desire for them to be included over the years, they have never received sufficient support from the prog metal team as a whole to get them in.

Here are the last three threads:

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=75157" rel="nofollow - January 2011
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=76584" rel="nofollow - March 2011  (revived in May 2018)
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=82260" rel="nofollow - October 2011

Two members of the current prog metal team have previously voted 'yes' for them, and the one who seemed most opposed to their addition no longer seems to be active in the team, since despite his profile on here suggesting he is still a member, he doesn't show up in the progfreak charts anymore.

Talking of progfreak, it seems that the subject of Amorphis's inclusion here was discussed in the collab zone again about four or five months ago:  https://progfreak.com/Amorphis-51491.html?path=pa/recent" rel="nofollow - https://progfreak.com/Amorphis-51491.html?path=pa/recent . That chart certainly looks strange for a rejection lol! The https://progfreak.com/Amorphis-51491.html?path=pa/pm" rel="nofollow - old no votes , of which there were plenty, don't show up in the recent history though.

I guess Amorphis are simply not destined to be included here, and it looks like we just have to accept that I'm afraid.

Actually, they weren”t discussed. I accidentally moved Amorphis, and then changed them back. So there is still potential for discussion, but I guess they would need 100% of the present team to vote to accept them. My vote is obviously for yes, but I don’t know about others.



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https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect


Posted By: yam yam
Date Posted: June 08 2021 at 16:17
Well, if the other current team members have never voted before, then there's nothing to be lost by throwing the suggestion back into the chart and letting it run its course! You never know...at the tenth attempt a miracle might actually happen! LOL


Posted By: javajeff
Date Posted: June 09 2021 at 00:20
I love the band and my prog ears are satisfied listening to them for whatever that is worth. I can get bored of straight rock or metal, but Amorphis does satisfy.


Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: June 09 2021 at 00:40
The thing I find amusing about Amorphis is, to touch on a recent discussion elsewhere on the forum (and one which pops up every couple of months for all eternity), they are far more widely recognised as prog than many of the bands within PA.

NIN were a band that was brought up in that other recent discussion, and one of the arguments for them NOT being prog was that Wikipedia, RYM, etc. do not list them as prog. I personally don’t use such sites as “evidence” of what is or isn’t prog, but in the case of Amorphis they are described as progressive metal. On our sister site, Metal Archives, progressive metal. They routinely turn up on FB on prog pages. They are clearly recognised as prog outside PA, but within PA are not prog “enough”.

Personally, even though my vote is yes to include them, it’s not the end of the world if they are rejected (again!), because I probably listen to more music that’s not on PA than is. I definitely don’t need to see a band on PA to validate its worth for me.





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https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect


Posted By: javajeff
Date Posted: June 09 2021 at 01:59
But it needs to be added if you want to review a band. It is a review site, so I don't understand why they can't be added. There is already a huge prog related section.


Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: June 09 2021 at 02:03
Originally posted by javajeff javajeff wrote:

But it needs to be added if you want to review a band. It is a review site, so I don't understand why they can't be added. There is already a huge prog related section.

what's progressive about them? They are competent skilled musicians, other than that, I'm not surprised they've been rejected before to be honest. 


Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: June 09 2021 at 03:11
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by javajeff javajeff wrote:

But it needs to be added if you want to review a band. It is a review site, so I don't understand why they can't be added. There is already a huge prog related section.

what's progressive about them? They are competent skilled musicians, other than that, I'm not surprised they've been rejected before to be honest. 

And there you go. As Cristi is on the Prog Metal team, and it would need to unanimous for them to be accepted, they are rejected once more.

Everyone’s idea of what is progressive is different. I think they are more progressive than a heck of a lot of bands that are already in the Prog Metal section of PA, but it is what it is. You’ll have to review the band on a different site, if you want to review them. Sorry! 🤷🏻‍♂️



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https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect


Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: June 09 2021 at 03:33
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by javajeff javajeff wrote:

But it needs to be added if you want to review a band. It is a review site, so I don't understand why they can't be added. There is already a huge prog related section.

what's progressive about them? They are competent skilled musicians, other than that, I'm not surprised they've been rejected before to be honest. 

And there you go. As Cristi is on the Prog Metal team, and it would need to unanimous for them to be accepted, they are rejected once more.

Everyone’s idea of what is progressive is different. I think they are more progressive than a heck of a lot of bands that are already in the Prog Metal section of PA, but it is what it is. You’ll have to review the band on a different site, if you want to review them. Sorry! 🤷🏻‍♂️


Not that different.  I wouldn't say there more progressive than "a lot" of bands here on PA. LOL You'll have to be more specific LOL






Posted By: javajeff
Date Posted: June 09 2021 at 04:41
I think people don't want to create the huge catalog of albums that is required. I wouldn't be surprised if the setup is just too much work for someone. A new band has one album for example.


Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: June 09 2021 at 04:43
Originally posted by javajeff javajeff wrote:

I think people don't want to create the huge catalog of albums that is required. I wouldn't be surprised if the setup is just too much work for someone. A new band has one album for example.

that's a rude thing to say. 
You're basically accusing us of laziness. Thank you... Ouch


Posted By: yam yam
Date Posted: June 09 2021 at 05:08
Adding the albums would be no problem at all really. If the band were ever to make it here then any registered member could contribute to the task of completing the discography. Incidentally, Amorphis's co-founder and guitarist Esa Holopainen released an excellent self-titled solo album as 'Silver Lake by Esa Holopainen' at the end of May. This album was facilitated by the past year of lockdowns, meaning that he was unable to tour with the band, and includes some superb guest vocalists. Again, it's something that probably wouldn't be widely regarded as true prog metal on here, but it contains some really excellent melodic metal for those that enjoy that particular genre. Playlist on https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lw1hmXWCw_9RHUDletSqsUJcLlTOccxAI" rel="nofollow - YouTube Music if anyone fancies a listen.


Posted By: javajeff
Date Posted: June 09 2021 at 05:44
That sounds great! Thanks!


Posted By: TCat
Date Posted: June 09 2021 at 09:01
Not to be a party pooper, but I would really love to see an updated, outright bio written on this band.  I have been inundated by having to write bios lately, and quiet frankly, it's very time consuming, even for the short bios as some bands have little bits of information all over the internet.

That being said, I decided a few days ago not to move a band from the suggestion thread to the team thread without the guidelines having been followed.  It's just too much work for one person especially with the amount of suggestions the progressive metal team gets.  So basically, what I need before this even gets considered again, is a full updated bio (if it is well written, you will get the credit), a picture of the band for the bio page, and a discography.  There must also be links that we can stream.  

This would be tremendously helpful and it is also the guidelines for submitting new bands through the suggestion thread.  Cristi posted the link to the guidelines already, but here it is again....

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=122381
  




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https://ibb.co/8x0xjR0" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Gordy
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 00:59
New album Halo just came out last month:

https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nnEqukkr35hrb_GSFt6eF2jVNIwIAaz-c" rel="nofollow - https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nnEqukkr35hrb_GSFt6eF2jVNIwIAaz-c


Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 01:31
One of the first bands I wanted given another chance when I joined the prog metal team was Amorphis. Because they have been rejected before, they would need to be unanimously accepted in any new submission, which is why I have still not yet put them on the table. But they are definitely and undoubtedly prog metal to my ears - and considerably more so than a lot of bands that have made it into the three prog metal genres of PA.

I’d like to think that one day Amorphis will find a way into PA, but if they never do, I’ll not be greatly concerned. PA is hardly the be-all and end-all of prog, and there are a great many bands out there recognised as prog outside PA but not within. Every prog festival in the UK, and every edition of Prog magazine, features bands who have failed to make the cut here, but which are not seen as anything other than prog outside PA.



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https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect


Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 01:48
I listened to them a little bit a few months ago, gave them another chance, I don't get the hype around them, even as far as melodic death metal goes, I've heard better. 

If we decide to re-evaluate, I don't mind but I need time and the right mood to dive into their catalogue again. It's kinda the same situation as Tourniquet. I don't know what to do TBH. 


Posted By: Necrotica
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 02:18
Just know that if we resurrect Amorphis on here for evaluation, I will 100% give them a yes. Amorphis have always been one of the most baffling prog metal rejections on PA in my opinion (Nevermore being another one).

-------------
Take me down, to the underground
Won't you take me down, to the underground
Why oh why, there is no light
And if I can't sleep, can you hold my life

https://www.youtube.com/@CocoonMasterBrendan-wh3sd


Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 02:25
Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

Just know that if we resurrect Amorphis on here for evaluation, I will 100% give them a yes. Amorphis have always been one of the most baffling prog metal rejections on PA in my opinion (Nevermore being another one).

Amorphis and Nevermore are both prog metal to me. We all have different ears, though, so it is not that surprising, I guess, that not everyone is agreement as to what is or is not prog.

I haven’t listened to the new Amorphis yet, but I have heard good things about it. 🇫🇮 



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https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect


Posted By: Necrotica
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 02:32
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

Just know that if we resurrect Amorphis on here for evaluation, I will 100% give them a yes. Amorphis have always been one of the most baffling prog metal rejections on PA in my opinion (Nevermore being another one).

Amorphis and Nevermore are both prog metal to me. We all have different ears, though, so it is not that surprising, I guess, that not everyone is agreement as to what is or is not prog.

I haven’t listened to the new Amorphis yet, but I have heard good things about it. 🇫🇮 


For sure; everybody has their own take on what is or isn't prog. For instance, I never understood how Nightwish got added to the site, though I guess most people are fine with the inclusion LOL


-------------
Take me down, to the underground
Won't you take me down, to the underground
Why oh why, there is no light
And if I can't sleep, can you hold my life

https://www.youtube.com/@CocoonMasterBrendan-wh3sd


Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 03:03
Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

Just know that if we resurrect Amorphis on here for evaluation, I will 100% give them a yes. Amorphis have always been one of the most baffling prog metal rejections on PA in my opinion (Nevermore being another one).

Amorphis and Nevermore are both prog metal to me. We all have different ears, though, so it is not that surprising, I guess, that not everyone is agreement as to what is or is not prog.

I haven’t listened to the new Amorphis yet, but I have heard good things about it. 🇫🇮 


For sure; everybody has their own take on what is or isn't prog. For instance, I never understood how Nightwish got added to the site, though I guess most people are fine with the inclusion LOL

If Nightwish were suggested today, I probably would not say "yes", maybe prog-related. I would certainly reject any Rhapsody existing on PA. 

As for Nevermore, as much as I enjoy them, I don't know if it's a baffling rejection. Shall we re-evaluate? We can at least discuss. 


Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 03:29
Back in the early days of this site when the genre teams were first being established, there was undoubtedly a lower threshold for inclusion than there is today, especially within Prog-Metal, when Nightwish, Rhapsody, Kamelot and Epica among others were all included. The theory (back in 2005) was that if music lovers were trawling the Internet looking for info on popular bands, would 'happen' upon our site and be introduced to more progressive material. It was also decided that once a band had been submitted for inclusion, they couldn't be removed by subsequent members (I don't know whether this rule still stands), hence the continuing discussions about the likes of Rhapsody's inclusion (one of the first Admins was a huge fan).

This idea of casting a wider net continued for a couple more years, during which time, Blind Guardian, Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath and Deep Purple among others were added, usually amidst great acrimony, with members saying that 'it was a line in the sand and they would be leaving if xxx were added' and so on (you know what Prog fans can be like! LOL

I guess a line has to be drawn somewhere, but I remember the discussions (often private) about Nevermore, when Communic were added and they weren't, for instance....

As far as Amorphis are concerned, I respectfully disagree with Cristi in terms of quality; Amiorphis are the very finest in their field, however Prog Metal? I've long been on the fence....  


Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 03:41
Originally posted by Jared Jared wrote:

Back in the early days of this site when the genre teams were first being established, there was undoubtedly a lower threshold for inclusion than there is today, especially within Prog-Metal, when Nightwish, Rhapsody, Kamelot and Epica among others were all included. The theory (back in 2005) was that if music lovers were trawling the Internet looking for info on popular bands, would 'happen' upon our site and be introduced to more progressive material. It was also decided that once a band had been submitted for inclusion, they couldn't be removed by subsequent members (I don't know whether this rule still stands), hence the continuing discussions about the likes of Rhapsody's inclusion (one of the first Admins was a huge fan).

This idea of casting a wider net continued for a couple more years, during which time, Blind Guardian, Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath and Deep Purple among others were added, usually amidst great acrimony, with members saying that 'it was a line in the sand and they would be leaving if xxx were added' and so on (you know what Prog fans can be like! LOL

I guess a line has to be drawn somewhere, but I remember the discussions (often private) about Nevermore, when Communic were added and they weren't, for instance....

As far as Amorphis are concerned, I respectfully disagree with Cristi in terms of quality; Amiorphis are the very finest in their field, however Prog Metal? I've long been on the fence....  

I never said anything about Amorphis' quality, just that I do not understand the hype around the band. I'm gonna listen to them again if we re-evaluate and decide what to do with them. 

Iron Maiden and Black Sabbath are under prog-related, so I do not see any controversy around them. Deep Purple are proto-prog because of the early Rod Evans era, nothing controversial either. 
 
As for Blind Guardian, I'm not sure I'd say "yes" to them if they were suggested today. 

I'm up for re-evaluating Nevermore ( but they could only get added if they are unanimously accepted). 


Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 03:49
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

I listened to them a little bit a few months ago, gave them another chance, I don't get the hype around them, even as far as melodic death metal goes, I've heard better. 

That does seem to be a comment on their overall quality, Cristi... LOL


Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 03:52
System of a Down are more prog metal than Nightwish, Rhapsody or Blind Guardian and the like! 😄

I get people being on the fence about bands like Amorphis or Nevermore. The line needs to be drawn somewhere. But for me, Nevermore is very similar to Queensryche, and although I totally agree with not using the “if x is here, why is y not?” argument, Nevermore and Queensryche are a quintessential x and y situation. Why one is considered prog metal and the other not, I honestly can’t understand. But there it is, and it’s not for me to argue.

The thing is, so long as bands such as Nightwish do remain in PA, then there will always be controversy and argument over why certain bands are now rejected. Is there really still a reason why a band like Nightwish can’t be removed from PA? I guess the obvious one is a variant on the x and y arguement: “If x was removed from PA, why is y still here?”

Regardless, if either Amorphis or Nevermore do come up for re-evaluation, they will get my yes.



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https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect


Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 03:54
Originally posted by Jared Jared wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

I listened to them a little bit a few months ago, gave them another chance, I don't get the hype around them, even as far as melodic death metal goes, I've heard better. 

That does seem to be a comment on their overall quality, Cristi... LOL

It's more about me struggling getting into them than me thinking they're not a good band. 


Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 04:10
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

System of a Down are more prog metal than Nightwish, Rhapsody or Blind Guardian and the like! 😄

I get people being on the fence about bands like Amorphis or Nevermore. The line needs to be drawn somewhere. But for me, Nevermore is very similar to Queensryche, and although I totally agree with not using the “if x is here, why is y not?” argument, Nevermore and Queensryche are a quintessential x and y situation. Why one is considered prog metal and the other not, I honestly can’t understand. But there it is, and it’s not for me to argue.

The thing is, so long as bands such as Nightwish do remain in PA, then there will always be controversy and argument over why certain bands are now rejected. Is there really still a reason why a band like Nightwish can’t be removed from PA? I guess the obvious one is a variant on the x and y arguement: “If x was removed from PA, why is y still here?”

Regardless, if either Amorphis or Nevermore do come up for re-evaluation, they will get my yes.


Nevermore is much heavier than Queensryche. 
Queensryche were relevant to the beginnings of the prog-metal genre, that's why they are on PA. 

I also understand why Nightwish got accepted, they were unique in their early days, they took elements from several genres and created their own sound. Blind Guardian fit better under prog-related. As for Rhapsody, they should not be here. 

Seems Nevermore were suggested and rejected several times. 
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/search_results_topics.asp?SearchID=20220314040702&KW=Nevermore" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/search_results_topics.asp?SearchID=20220314040702&KW=Nevermore


Posted By: Archisorcerus
Date Posted: March 14 2022 at 04:15
^ Rhapsody deserves to be here as much as Nightwish does. Nightwish was unique? There was Therion before. When it comes to symphonic power metal, Rhapsody (of Fire) was the first band that full fledgedly utilized that. Nightish's symhonic quality was not that complete, and Therion was not really a power metal band.


Posted By: bardberic
Date Posted: June 22 2022 at 05:13
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

Just know that if we resurrect Amorphis on here for evaluation, I will 100% give them a yes. Amorphis have always been one of the most baffling prog metal rejections on PA in my opinion (Nevermore being another one).

Amorphis and Nevermore are both prog metal to me. We all have different ears, though, so it is not that surprising, I guess, that not everyone is agreement as to what is or is not prog.

I haven’t listened to the new Amorphis yet, but I have heard good things about it. 🇫🇮 


For sure; everybody has their own take on what is or isn't prog. For instance, I never understood how Nightwish got added to the site, though I guess most people are fine with the inclusion LOL

If Nightwish were suggested today, I probably would not say "yes", maybe prog-related. I would certainly reject any Rhapsody existing on PA. 

As for Nevermore, as much as I enjoy them, I don't know if it's a baffling rejection. Shall we re-evaluate? We can at least discuss. 


I actually just found a 12 year old Nevermore thread and was going to comment there, but since this has recently been brought up, I'll comment here instead.

I do not think they're progressive metal in the traditional sense of the word. They are quite unique and I just picked up a few of their albums. Frankly, I'm not a huge fan of them and I don't understand all the hype around them. The first half or so of This Godless Endeavor is fairly good, and Dreaming Neon Black is a hit or miss throughout. The other two I got (they were in a box set), Dead Heart... and Enemies... are just straight up bad and mediocre, respectively, in my opinion; but I digress.

I've been trying to label my Dreaming Neon Black (DNB) and This Godless Endeavor (TGE) MP3s on my computer for a few minutes now, and frankly, I don't know what else to label them, atm, other than progressive metal, despite the fact that I don't believe they are true prog. The other two I just labeled as Groove Metal.

They are certainly more progressive than Nightwish, that for damn sure. I'm thinking, simply for DNB and TGE, they might be a candidate for "prog-related," where, frankly, Nightwish should be, imo.

Honestly, I don't know how Black Sabbath (mentioned above the comment to which I'm responding) could even qualify for "prog-related." Honestly, they are about as far away as prog as you can get. I also think they are amongst the most over rated bands in history, so maybe I just don't understand, same with Led Zeppelin, although their song Achilles Last Stand could be considered prog-related, I suppose. I also don't see how Jimi Hendrix could be prog-related either, but I again digress. My point is, if Nightwish could be "Progressive Metal" and Black Sabbath can be "prog-related," Nevermore may certainly qualify for "prog-related," "or possibly even "tech/extreme metal," event though they aren't really, imo, prog, if not at least for the fact that they are frequently categorized by many other people as "progressive metal," and since they don't really solidly fall under any other soubgenre of metal.

As for Amorphis - another band for which I don't really understand the hype (I only checked out their Queen of Time album since Noa Gruman and her choir, Hellscore is featured on the album). A major problem for me is that the clean vocals are a major turn off for me; they're so generic and bland. Although I do admit, I hear tons of similarities to Orphaned Land's album Unsung Prophets and Dead Messiahs, yet I'm only hearing minimal prog elements. I am not familiar enough with them to comment, but my first impression with the Queen of Time album is symphonic melodic death metal. Not even really prog-related, imo.

As for the "controversial" bands, mentioned in this thread - if I were a collaborator, I would vote:
Blind Guardian: No for progressive metal, possibly yes, possibly no for prog-related
Nightwish: No for progressive metal, yes for prog-related
Black Sabbath: No for prog-related
Amorphis: No for progressive metal, possibly yes, probably no for prog-related
Nevermore: No for progressive or tech/extreme metal, yes for prog-related
Metallica: Yes for progressive metal (because of the album ...And Justice for All)
Iron Maiden: Yes for prog-related
Deep Purple: Yes for proto-prog, possibly even yes for heavy prog
Epica: Yes for progressive metal, believe it or not - they're close enough for me
Kamelot: Never listened to them, can't comment
Rhapsody: Can't comment
Queensryche: Can't comment


Posted By: tempest_77
Date Posted: September 09 2022 at 13:00
Any updates on potential re-evaluation? Or does someone need to make an official post suggesting them first?

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I use they/them pronouns (feel free to ask me about this!)

Check out my music on https://tempestsounds.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - my bandcamp !


Posted By: nick_h_nz
Date Posted: September 09 2022 at 13:04
They’ll get a “yes” from me, if they ever do come up for re-evaluation. There’s more than enough prog in their music for me to give them a yes. But I have a feeling at least one of my prog metal team mates does not think they are prog enough, and only one “no” vote would see them rejected once more. So until I’m more confident of a unanimous “yes” vote, I’m certainly not pushing for a re-evaluation.



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https://tinyurl.com/nickhnz-tpa" rel="nofollow - Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect


Posted By: Booba Kastorsky
Date Posted: February 02 2024 at 18:15
I've always been surprised my Amorphis is not here? Found an old thread about this band, nothing more.
I believe they are much more prog than numerous bands represented here.
AllMusic actually lists their Style as  Heavy Metal, Scandinavian Metal, Progressive Metal, and this is a quote from one of their reviews that speaks for itself:
"Pretty much from the very start, Amorphis' career has been about constant reinvention (hence the name, hello!), and so the Finnish group's albums have traversed the realms of death, folk, progressive, electronic, and psychedelic rock and metal over the past 20 years -- never looking back along the way. "

I totally agree with their characteristic! If "constant reinvention" and blend of death, folk, progressive, electronic, and psychedelic rock and metalis not "prog",  then I don't know what prog is.
Can we add them, please?


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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: February 02 2024 at 18:34
I agree. Amorphis has been on my suggestion list for a while but if you want to suggest you need to write a bio and suggest the albums you feel will qualify them. Pretty much everything after Tales From The Thousand Lakes qualifies as progressive metal. That is the primary tagging on RYM. I have most their albums so i'll vote yes once suggested properly.

http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/artist/amorphis/?ac=amorph" rel="nofollow - http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/artist/amorphis/?ac=amorph

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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy


Posted By: Gordy
Date Posted: February 02 2024 at 18:52
I'll also vote Yes once we get a biography.


Posted By: yam yam
Date Posted: February 02 2024 at 19:37
^ And that's why they weren't re-evaluated when the https://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=126625" rel="nofollow - last suggestion for this band was made in June 2021 (there have been at least 8 previous suggestions - with an average of more than one a year between 2006 and 2011). That previous suggestion is still open, so I think it would be beneficial if admins could perhaps merge this latest thread with it rather than have yet another one floating around.

The old progfreak charts with all the previous votes that have been cast are unfortunately no more, but some of the old 'yes' votes from it have been carried over to the new AwesomeProg chart for the band:

https://awesomeprog.com/artists/300" rel="nofollow - Amorphis
Rejected
Yes4 https://awesomeprog.com/users/UMUR" rel="nofollow - UMUR https://awesomeprog.com/users/J-Man" rel="nofollow - J-Man https://awesomeprog.com/users/bonnek" rel="nofollow - bonnek  and  https://awesomeprog.com/users/NickHudson" rel="nofollow - NickHudson
History
over 14 years ago  https://awesomeprog.com/users/UMUR" rel="nofollow - UMUR  voted Yes.
over 14 years ago  https://awesomeprog.com/users/J-Man" rel="nofollow - J-Man  voted Yes.
about 13 years ago  https://awesomeprog.com/users/bonnek" rel="nofollow - bonnek  voted Yes.
about 3 years ago  https://awesomeprog.com/users/NickHudson" rel="nofollow - NickHudson  voted Yes.
almost 3 years ago  https://awesomeprog.com/users/NickHudson" rel="nofollow - NickHudson  set section to Discuss.
almost 3 years ago  https://awesomeprog.com/users/NickHudson" rel="nofollow - NickHudson  set section to Rejected.

I'm not going to write a biography myself for this band because based on what was written in that last thread I still think there is going to be someone in the team who would vote 'no', and it would thus ultimately be a wasted effort. They will need unanimous approval from the team before they can be added.

It does look as though two of the four current team members would definitely vote 'yes' though, so I guess we're half way there lol!


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: February 02 2024 at 19:58
Despite all the controversy on PA it seems EVERY other source on the internet considers Amorphis as prog metal therefore sometimes i think we have to simply join the club in the near unanimous consensus regarding these things. I consider them prog light but still i personally don't comprehend why others can't hear any prog at all. Some of their newer albums are pretty clear cut to my ears.

From Discogs:
http://www.discogs.com/artist/113365-Amorphis" rel="nofollow - https://www.discogs.com/artist/113365-Amorphis
Amorphis started out as a pure death metal band, but soon steered away from the genre's underground scene and have since created their own unique and highly successful blend of heavy metal, progressive rock and folk. The name Amorphis was derived from the word "amorphous", which means 'no determinate form or shape'.

From RYM:
http://rateyourmusic.com/artist/amorphis" rel="nofollow - https://rateyourmusic.com/artist/amorphis
Genres
https://rateyourmusic.com/genre/progressive-metal/" rel="nofollow - Progressive Metal , https://rateyourmusic.com/genre/melodic-death-metal/" rel="nofollow - Melodic Death Metal , https://rateyourmusic.com/genre/death-metal/" rel="nofollow - Death Metal

From Metal Archives:
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Amorphis/1" rel="nofollow - https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Amorphis/1
Genre: Progressive/Death/Doom Metal

From Metal Music Archvies:
http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/artist/amorphis/?ac=amorphi" rel="nofollow - http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/artist/amorphis/?ac=amorphi
Progressive Metal / Death Metal / Melodic Death Metal

From The Prog Mind:
http://theprogmind.com/2022/02/04/amorphis-halo/" rel="nofollow - https://theprogmind.com/2022/02/04/amorphis-halo/

From Metal Injection:
http://metalinjection.net/upcoming-releases/amorphis-announces-heavier-and-more-progressive-new-album-halo" rel="nofollow - https://metalinjection.net/upcoming-releases/amorphis-announces-heavier-and-more-progressive-new-album-halo
AMORPHIS Announces "Heavier And More Progressive" New Album Halo

From ProgPowerUSA:
http://progpowerusa.com/artists/amorphis/" rel="nofollow - https://progpowerusa.com/artists/amorphis/

From TheProgSpace:
http://theprogspace.com/amorphis-halo/" rel="nofollow - https://theprogspace.com/amorphis-halo/

I suggest listening more carefully. The prog isn't as blatant as Dream Theater or Fates Warning. It's a more sublte prog but still prog :)


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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy


Posted By: yam yam
Date Posted: February 02 2024 at 20:08
Thanks for merging the current thread with the previous one, Greg. It puts things into much better perspective now that we have continuity between the two threads. Thumbs Up


Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: February 03 2024 at 06:26
Amorphis will be re-evaluated once we have an up-to-date biography (requesting a biography before we go ahead).

The evaluation might take a while, for various reasons, the band needs unanimous positive votes (4 yes votes) to be cleared to be added. 


Posted By: yam yam
Date Posted: February 03 2024 at 20:48
Here is a possible starting point for a biography (I said that I wouldn't write one, but I doubt that anyone else will). This is compiled from several sources, so I have to admit that various bits of it have been copied and pasted. The overall text in its entirety is quite unique however, so I hope it will be sufficient to get an evaluation started, and finally put the long-running saga of this band, and the much divided opinions regarding the prog credentials of its music, to bed.

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Amorphis: Founded 1990 in Helsinki, Finland; still active as of February 2024.

Amorphis was formed in 1990 by Jan Rechberger and Esa Holopainen following the break up of their previous band, a thrash metal outfit called 'Violent Solution' - a break up which had really begun when guitarist/vocalist Tomi Koivusaari had left to form the death metal band 'Abhorrence', with Koivusaari being replaced by Holopainen in 'Violent Solution'. Amorphis's initial line up consisted of Jan on drums, Esa on lead guitars, Tomi Koivusaari rejoining his former bandmates as guitarist/vocalist, and Olli-Pekka 'Oppu' Laine completing the line up as bassist.

The name of the band is derived from the Greek 'amorphous', which means without determinate form, or shapeless, and the new group essentially played death metal inspired by Carcass and Morbid Angel, a subgenre only played by a handful of Finnish bands in the early '90s. However, from their independently released demo tape 'Disment of Soul' (recorded in 1991 by Timo Tolkki at TTT studios) right through to the more recent releases, Amorphis have always fused these elements of traditional heavy, death and doom metal with a variety of other non-metal influences, including folk, progressive and psychedelia, allowing them to create an instantly recognizable sound all of their own.

After Amorphis had recorded their first studio demo tape, Luxi Lahtinen, a well-connected Finnish tape trader, sent it to Relapse Records, an American label which focused on extreme metal, since Finnish record companies at that time were really only interested in thrash and speed metal, the popularity of which had exploded in the late '80s in Finland with the success of the band 'Stone'. Relapse responded saying that they had wanted to sign Abhorrence, whose demo Lahtinen had also sent them. But, since Abhorrence had broken up in 1990 and was no longer active, Amorphis were signed to a worldwide recording deal instead.

Soon after getting signed, they released their death metal debut 'The Karelian Isthmus' (recorded at Stockholm's famed Sunlight Studio in May 1992), followed by the 'Privilege of Evil' EP (1993). The EP featured Abhorrence's original vocalist, Jukka Kolehmainen, on vocals on the Abhorrence cover song, "Vulgar Necrolatry". Relapse Records would remain Amorphis's label until 2001. The Karelian Isthmus took its name from a historic Finnish battleground, and its lyrics contemplated universal themes of warfare and religion, drawing on Celtic mythology rather than the traditions of the band's homeland.

Receiving an impressive response to these early releases, the band chose to venture further into melodic terrain with the next full studio album 'Tales From The Thousand Lakes' (1994), and this change of Amorphis's signature sound from the death metal style that characterized its earlier history towards a cleaner, more melodic sound, with additional progressive keyboard sounds and clean guest vocals (performed by Ville Tuomi of Kyyria), meant that this was really the band's breakthrough album. Whereas the synth tracks on the first album had been laid down by drummer Jan, Amorphis had recently found a full-time keyboard player in Kasper Mårtenson.

The album won the band a massive fan base around the world, reaching a multitude of listeners among and beyond the metal community, and remains immensely popular to this day, being considered by many to be one of the most groundbreaking albums ever in the doom/death genre. With this sophomore release - a concept album based on the Finnish national epic, the Kalevala - the group also reclaimed its Finnish heritage in some style, creating an album that single-handedly put the small Nordic country firmly on the global map of progressive metal. Ville's melodic voice, elegantly contrasting with Tomi's growls, brought a new dimension to the band's sound, as did the greater prominence of synthesizer and piano.

In more recent years, songs from this album have made a comeback in Amorphis's live set, seamlessly blending with the band's later work and proving they have indeed stood the test of time. The success of 'Tales From The Thousand Lakes' led to several European tours, followed by their first US tour in late 1994. These strenuous tours and tough schedules took their toll, however, and shortly afterwards the band underwent some major musical and line-up changes (in 1995 and 1996). Kasper Mårtenson decided to leave the band and Kim Rantala briefly became the keyboardist (to be later replaced by Santeri Kallio in 1999). Jan was replaced as drummer by Pekka Kasari of the Finnish metal band 'Stone', and just before recording their third album, Amorphis recruited a sixth member, Pasi Koskinen, as an additional vocalist. Pasi and Tomi Koivusaari would split clean and harsh vocal duties between them before Tomi eventually stopped singing altogether.

With this new line-up, the band boldly launched into its most adventurous endeavor yet. Elegy (1996) became a quantum leap for Amorphis, considered by many to be the watershed between their death/doom beginnings and the unique brand of progressive rock that has been the cornerstone of their albums ever since. Continuing to feature lyrics adapted from Finnish mythology and traditional Finnish folk poetry (in this case, the Kanteletar), Pasi's unique vocals brought a new setting to the music of 'Elegy', which now concentrated more on compelling keyboard atmospheres. 

After about one and a half years of ceaseless touring following the release of Elegy, the band took time out to recharge their batteries and think about new material. Due to the loss of keyboard player Kim Rantala, it was clear that the next album would need to have the massive production of Elegy scaled back somewhat, with the band instead striving for an earthier, less meandering feel, and the 'Tuonela' album (1999) eventually took three years to prepare. Towards the end of the studio sessions, Santeri Kallio of Kyyria was brought in to add some tasteful keyboard tracks to the songs, but first and foremost 'Tuonela' was a guitar album. Honing the newfound style to perfection, this album was liberally sprinkled with 1970s-style psychedelic touches, as well as some foreign spices provided by saxophonist/flutist Sakari Kukko of world music legend Piirpauke, and marked another great leap ahead for Amorphis. 

The new millennium was greeted with the tenth-anniversary compilation 'Story', released in May 2000 via Spinefarm Records, and another line-up change. Following the breakup of Kyyria, Santeri Kallio had already joined Amorphis as a full-time member, but bassist Olli-Pekka Laine felt he could no longer commit himself to the band. He was succeeded by another ex-Kyyria member, Niclas Etelävuori, who came in just in time for Amorphis's third U.S. tour. The band returned to the studio shortly afterwards to record their fifth album 'Am Universum', released in 2001, which retained the moody atmosphere of 'Tuonela' whilst also introducing more varied soundscapes and a much wider dynamic range. Instead of letting the guitars dominate throughout, more space was given to keyboards and saxophone work, the latter again being contributed by Sakari Kukko. All vocals including the few remaining grunts were now performed by Pasi Koskinen, who had also written almost all of the lyrics.

In 2003, Relapse released the retrospective 'Chapters', which included a DVD featuring the band's videos from "Black Winter Day" to "Alone", but this release marked the end of Amorphis's longstanding relationship with Relapse Records. Freed from a contract whose small print had not always been in their best interests, the band members decided to record the next album on their own terms and look for a new label with the finished product already in hand. 'Far From The Sun' (2003) was produced by the band itself, which now had original drummer Jan Rechberger back in the fold after Pekka Kasari had quit to concentrate on family duties.

Most of the tracks were recorded at Niclas Etelävuori's and Santeri Kallio's own CCPC studio and no guest performances were involved apart from some background vocals, meaning that the album came closer to the Amorphis live sound than any of their previous recordings had. Compared to 'Am Universum', 'Far From The Sun' turned out heavier, more straightforward and closer to the band's metal roots than the previous release, and was also once again more folk-oriented, this time with more of a Turkish and Persian far eastern theme. 

The album was released by Virgin/EMI in Europe the spring of 2003, but the US release had to wait until the fall of 2004 and would have been accompanied by a North American tour, had the tour not been canceled for reasons beyond the band's control. The prospect of this tour, however, had already given Pasi Koskinen the reason he had been looking for to leave the band in the late summer of 2004 after nine years, to concentrate on his various other musical projects. Pasi was replaced by Tomi Joutsen (Sinisthra) after a lengthy period of auditions for the role. Of more than a hundred demos submitted by hopeful candidates, not one fit the criteria. In the end, Amorphis found the right person through word of mouth. Tomi Joutsen's intense, deeply emotional delivery immediately won the crowds over at each concert the band gave in 2005, including a one-month tour of North America. 

With a new singer and new energy, the band recorded their seventh album 'Eclipse', an acclaimed masterpiece that combined the best-loved elements of Amorphis's unique sound with fresh vigour. The album went straight to the top of the Finnish charts and was followed by triumphant live appearances all over Europe before the band retreated again to the recording studio. Following the release of Eclipse, Amorphis would also sign with its current label, Nuclear Blast. Tomi Joutsen brought not only new vigor and a fresh perspective to the band but also the initiative to revive the use of contrasting vocal styles that had contributed so much to the magic of 'Elegy' and 'Tales'. 'Eclipse' also featured a thematic return to the sources of Finland's literary heritage, recounting the fate of Kullervo, the most tragic character of the Kalevala.

Ensuing club gigs and festival appearances all over Europe established Amorphis as a first-rate live act, and all the while new songs were already in the making. Released in August 2007, 'Silent Waters' confirmed that a new era had indeed begun. This album was the first in the band's history to have been recorded with the same personnel as the previous one. All the new songs were based on a single episode from the Kalevala - namely Lemminkäinen's hunt for the Swan of Tuonela - and the release of the new album was preceded by a string of festival appearances - including Germany’s Wacken Open Air - and was immediately followed by a five-week Finnish tour. The remainder of 2007 found Amorphis in Europe, Russia and Japan, whereas in 2008 they played in southeastern Europe, at a multitude of festivals and, during the fall, in the USA and Canada. Both Eclipse and Silent Waters went gold in Finland, a feat not yet accomplished by any earlier Amorphis album, and won the band a host of new fans around the globe.

Entering the studio straight after returning from a month of intense touring proved to be a wise choice, as Skyforger (2009) presents Amorphis tighter, more versatile and more focused than ever. The new album shares the lyrical concept of the two previous albums, its central character being Kalevala blacksmith Ilmarinen. The lyrics were again crafted by Finnish poet Pekka Kainulainen and translator Erkki Virta, who already collaborated on the previous album. Both the album and the single 'Silver Bride' went straight to number one in the Finnish charts, and the new songs were immediately tested and proven on the summer’s festival stages.

In September, Amorphis went on their first-ever tour of Latin America, followed by the extensive 'Forging Europe' tour in the fall. In the summer of 2010, the band presented its first-ever live DVD, which included two full shows recorded in 2009 as well as a career-spanning documentary. The release coincided with the 20th anniversary of Amorphis, which in addition was honored by a compilation of re-recorded classic tracks, released in September 2010.

The band's tenth album 'The Beginning Of Times' (2011) showcases their trademark style to perfection, including plenty of reference to the death metal days, yet at the same time proving that Amorphis have lost none of their progressive edge and experimental spirit. Paying homage to Väinämöinen, the Kalevala's central character whom myth credits for bringing music into the world, the band brought forth its most versatile and nuanced effort to date. Iikka Kahri, who had been featured on flute and saxophone in several songs on Skyforger, was back in the fold, Tomi Koivusaari added a few discreet touches of pedal steel guitar and Santeri Kallio balanced the 1970s prog and 1990s death elements with some synth sounds straight out of the eighties. The album also featured the addition of Netta Dahlberg on backing vocals.

The band's eleventh album 'Circle' was released on April 19 2013 in Europe and April 30th in North America. On September 16, 2013, 'Circle' won Metal Hammer's "The Album of The Year" award. In 2014, Amorphis played a number of special 'Tales from the Thousand Lakes' 20th Anniversary shows where their 1994 album was performed in its entirety. The tour included festivals such as Wacken Open Air, Maryland Deathfest, and 70000 Tons of Metal with many other dates and festivals included.

The band began demoing new songs at the start of 2015, and recorded their twelfth studio full-length album 'Under The Red Cloud' in April 2015, at Fascination Street Studio, Örebro, Sweden with Jens Bogren. The album was released worldwide on 4 September 2015 by Nuclear Blast Records. The lyrics were written once again by Pekka Kainulainen, and similarly to 'Kalevala' they are descriptions of natural phenomena, seasons and the human mind. The poems do not form a complete story as such, but they are drawn together by a common theme. The release of the new album was followed by a world tour, starting with shows in the band's home country of Finland, followed by other parts of Europe with Nightwish & Arch Enemy in November 2015.

The thirteenth Amorphis studio album, called 'Queen of Time' was released on 18th May 2018 via Nuclear Blast Records. The recording of this album featured the band's former bass player Olli-Pekka 'Oppu' Laine who replaced longtime bassist Niclas Etelävuori, who after about 13 years with a steady line-up, quit Amorphis in April 2017 after their North American tour due to disagreements with the band's management, making this the first time since 'Tales from the Thousand Lakes' that all the original band members had played together on an album. On 23 March 2018, the band released the first single from the album, called "The Bee".

Amorphis released its fourteenth studio album 'Halo' on 24th February 2022, this marking the band's 30th anniversary since the release of its 1992 debut album 'The Karelian Isthmus'. Various complications related to the Covid-19 pandemic made the recording of the album somewhat challenging. The album is more guitar-driven and heavier than 'Queen of Time', continues to draw heavily on Finnish folklore (with references to Tuonela, the underworld realm of Finnish and Estonian mythology), and has been received well by both fans and critics, topping the charts in the band's home country of Finland and featuring in the top-10 charts of many other countries. Two songs from the album were released with full music videos early in 2022 ("The Moon" and "On the Dark Waters").

--------------------------------------------------

That's the best I can do, I'm afraid, though if an evaluation is initiated as a result of it, then I'll refine it a bit with the proper capitalisation of all the surnames and names of bands. Any errors or omissions please mention them here and I'll correct them.



Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: February 03 2024 at 22:53
^ That's great, thank you! Thumbs Up


Posted By: Gordy
Date Posted: February 03 2024 at 23:02
I'm not a fan of plagiarised biographies but it looks like I'm swimming against the tide here. At least the team conditions are favourable for their long-awaited admission.


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: February 04 2024 at 07:00
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

I definitely think they should be reconsidered. They have been submitted and rejected before, but I do think they have become more and more prog over the years, and should be reassessed by their latest albums. I can understand why they may have been rejected previously, but the band have…well…progressed since then…. 🤪


Hi,

When we look at all the arts, we don't think of them as ... changing ... you look at Picasso, and you see Blue, then Pink, then Cubism ... and all of his life it was all over the place. But, will we not consider him "progressive" when he did, just about all by himself, create something else which was so vastly different than anyone else's work?

Rock music is the same, and we should look at ourselves. In the early days, we knew 2 chords and 5 notes ... 5 years later we could use more chords and knew more notes ... and 40 years later, chords and notes would not exactly be an issue ... does not knowing the stuff earlier means the person is not "progressive" when they have shown that they have been progressing from the start?

I still look at things by the ARTIST ... not the album or the songs ... and I believe it explains a lot more about the person behind it, than otherwise. 

The only sad thing about all this is that we're allowing "fans" to dictate the artistic value of this or that ... (who cares about the person -- the artist?)  and I still am not sure that's a great thing. I can see it now ... Tchaikovsky and Mahler meandering all over the place. Where are the dang solos in Beethoven? ... what about ...??? In the end, that "discussion" is not about the music ... it's about preferences.


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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: yam yam
Date Posted: February 04 2024 at 08:30
Originally posted by Gordy Gordy wrote:

I'm not a fan of plagiarised biographies but it looks like I'm swimming against the tide here. At least the team conditions are favourable for their long-awaited admission.
I've said it here before, and I'll say it again now. I have absolutely no skill whatsoever as a writer, having only scraped through my high school English exam with a bare pass at the second attempt. I don't write reviews for this site simply because I just don't have the necessary imagination to be able to create clear, readable text out of thin air, so I don't even attempt it. All the biographies I have written for this site - and there have been a few - are compiled the same way by taking sections from what several others have already written, editing them slightly, and then merging them together to create something different than what existed before. If this technique isn't good enough for PA then I'm sorry to have let you down, and I won't bother putting together any more of these 'plagiarised biographies'. I shall be taking a break from the forums for a while now, and somebody else with greater literary powers than myself can take over the role of providing biographies for all these suggestions that get submitted here which don't include one. Ouch


Posted By: tempest_77
Date Posted: February 04 2024 at 08:39
Originally posted by yam yam yam yam wrote:

Originally posted by Gordy Gordy wrote:

I'm not a fan of plagiarised biographies but it looks like I'm swimming against the tide here. At least the team conditions are favourable for their long-awaited admission.
I've said it here before, and I'll say it again now. I have absolutely no skill whatsoever as a writer, having only scraped through my high school English exam with a bare pass at the second attempt. I don't write reviews for this site simply because I just don't have the necessary imagination to be able to create clear, readable text out of thin air, so I don't even attempt it. All the biographies I have written for this site - and there have been a few - are compiled the same way by taking sections from what several others have already written, editing them slightly, and then merging them together to create something different than what existed before. If this technique isn't good enough for PA then I'm sorry to have let you down, and I won't bother putting together any more of these 'plagiarised biographies'. I shall be taking a break from the forums for a while now, and somebody else with greater literary powers than myself can take over the role of providing biographies for all these suggestions that get submitted here which don't include one. Ouch

I'd argue very much in your favor here—I do not feel that what you are describing is plagiarism, if you are rewording these things then that very much qualifies as paraphrasing rather than plagiarism, at least on a sentence-by-sentence or section-by-section basis. If we want to talk about plagiarism from an academic point of view, what would make it plagiarism is the lack of sources cited, which has never been a thing for Prog Archives bios anyway.


-------------
I use they/them pronouns (feel free to ask me about this!)

Check out my music on https://tempestsounds.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - my bandcamp !


Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: February 04 2024 at 08:42
Originally posted by yam yam yam yam wrote:

Originally posted by Gordy Gordy wrote:

I'm not a fan of plagiarised biographies but it looks like I'm swimming against the tide here. At least the team conditions are favourable for their long-awaited admission.
I've said it here before, and I'll say it again now. I have absolutely no skill whatsoever as a writer, having only scraped through my high school English exam with a bare pass at the second attempt. I don't write reviews for this site simply because I just don't have the necessary imagination to be able to create clear, readable text out of thin air, so I don't even attempt it. All the biographies I have written for this site - and there have been a few - are compiled the same way by taking sections from what several others have already written, editing them slightly, and then merging them together to create something different than what existed before. If this technique isn't good enough for PA then I'm sorry to have let you down, and I won't bother putting together any more of these 'plagiarised biographies'. I shall be taking a break from the forums for a while now, and somebody else with greater literary powers than myself can take over the role of providing biographies for all these suggestions that get submitted here which don't include one. Ouch

Everything yam yam has said here, I could say the same about myself... back in the day, I compiled perhaps 25 to 30 biogs for groups that either didn't have one, or who had barely a paragraph, but literally NOTHING I wrote was original, I merely merged info from 3 or 4 different internet sources, into something roughly coherent and chronological. Back then, I also faced the same criticisms of not writing anything sufficiently original or citing my sources, so I gave up to allow others others with greater literary prowess or knowledge of the bands to do a job which would reflect better on the site... and you know what? Ten or more years later, those biographies have never been written by anyone and in many cases, their initial 'holding paragraph' from 2006 have still been retained and bands for bands who have more than 10 Studio releases to their name.... Wink


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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson


Posted By: tempest_77
Date Posted: February 04 2024 at 11:42
Originally posted by Gordy Gordy wrote:

I'm not a fan of plagiarised biographies but it looks like I'm swimming against the tide here. At least the team conditions are favourable for their long-awaited admission.

To address this concern, I took it upon myself to run yam yam's very thorough biography through a plagiarism detector. Less than 10% of it set off the scanner (which I'd say is pretty good), so I went ahead and edited those parts a bit. You will now find the biography completely free of any plagiarism. Props to yam yam for putting it together, and glad I could help!

----------------------------

Amorphis: Founded in 1990 in Helsinki, Finland; still active as of February 2024.


Amorphis was formed in 1990 by Jan Rechberger and Esa Holopainen following the break up of their previous band, a thrash metal outfit called 'Violent Solution' - a break up which had really begun when guitarist/vocalist Tomi Koivusaari had left to form the death metal band 'Abhorrence', with Koivusaari being replaced by Holopainen in 'Violent Solution'. Amorphis's initial lineup consisted of Jan on drums, Esa on lead guitars, Tomi Koivusaari rejoining his former bandmates as guitarist/vocalist, and Olli-Pekka 'Oppu' Laine completing the lineup as bassist.


The name of the band is derived from the Greek 'amorphous', which means without determinate form, or shapeless, and the new group essentially played death metal inspired by Carcass and Morbid Angel, a style unique to just a handful of Finnish bands in the early '90s. However, from their independently released demo tape 'Disment of Soul' (recorded in 1991 by Timo Tolkki at TTT studios) right through to the more recent releases, Amorphis have always fused these elements of traditional heavy, death and doom metal with a variety of other non-metal influences, including folk, progressive and psychedelia, allowing them to create an instantly recognizable sound all of their own.


After Amorphis had recorded their first studio demo tape, Luxi Lahtinen, a well-connected Finnish tape trader, sent it to Relapse Records, an American label which focused on extreme metal, since Finnish record companies at that time were really only interested in thrash and speed metal, the popularity of which had exploded in the late '80s in Finland with the success of the band 'Stone'. Relapse responded saying that they had wanted to sign Abhorrence, whose demo Lahtinen had also sent them. But, since Abhorrence had broken up in 1990 and was no longer active, Amorphis were signed to a worldwide recording deal instead.


Soon after getting signed, they released their death metal debut 'The Karelian Isthmus' (recorded at Stockholm's famed Sunlight Studio in May 1992), followed by the 'Privilege of Evil' EP (1993). The EP included a cover of the Abhorrence song “Vulgar Necrolatry” featuring the original vocalist, Jukka Kolehmainen. Relapse Records would remain Amorphis's label until 2001. The Karelian Isthmus took its name from a historic Finnish battleground, and its lyrics contemplated universal themes of warfare and religion, drawing on Celtic mythology rather than the traditions of the band's homeland.


Receiving an impressive response to these early releases, the band chose to venture further into melodic terrain with the next full studio album 'Tales From The Thousand Lakes' (1994), and this change of Amorphis's signature sound from the death metal style that characterized its earlier history towards a cleaner, more melodic sound, with additional progressive keyboard sounds and clean guest vocals (performed by Ville Tuomi of Kyyria), meant that this was really the band's breakthrough album. While the synth parts on their first album were originally played by drummer Jan, Amorphis had since found Kasper Mårtenson to be their full-time keyboardist.


The album helped the band gain a massive international following—it reached many listeners both within and beyond the metal community, and it has remained very popular to this day. It is considered by many to be one of the most groundbreaking albums ever in the doom/death genre. With this sophomore release - a concept album based on the Finnish national epic, the Kalevala - the group also reclaimed its Finnish heritage in some style, creating an album that single-handedly put the small Nordic country firmly on the global map of progressive metal. The contrast between Ville's melodic voice and Tomi's growls brought a new dimension to the band's sound, as did the increased usage of synthesizer and piano.


In more recent years, songs from this album have made a comeback in Amorphis's live set, seamlessly blending with the band's later work and proving they have indeed stood the test of time. The success of 'Tales From The Thousand Lakes' led to several European tours, followed by their first US tour in late 1994. These strenuous tours and tough schedules took their toll, however, and shortly afterward the band underwent some major musical and line-up changes (in 1995 and 1996). Kasper Mårtenson decided to leave the band and Kim Rantala briefly became the keyboardist (to be later replaced by Santeri Kallio in 1999). Jan was replaced as drummer by Pekka Kasari of the Finnish metal band 'Stone', and just before recording their third album, Amorphis recruited a sixth member, Pasi Koskinen, as an additional vocalist. Pasi and Tomi Koivusaari would split clean and harsh vocal duties between them before Tomi eventually stopped singing altogether.


With this new line-up, the band created their most adventurous album yet. Elegy (1996) became a quantum leap for Amorphis, considered by many to be the watershed between their death/doom beginnings and the unique brand of progressive rock that has been the cornerstone of their albums ever since. Continuing to feature lyrics adapted from Finnish mythology and traditional Finnish folk poetry (in this case, the Kanteletar), Pasi's unique vocals brought a new setting to the music of 'Elegy', which now concentrated more on compelling keyboard atmospheres. 


After about one and a half years of ceaseless touring following the release of Elegy, the band took time out to recharge their batteries and think about new material. Due to the loss of keyboard player Kim Rantala, it was clear that the next album would need to have the massive production of Elegy scaled back somewhat, with the band instead striving for an earthier, less meandering feel, and the 'Tuonela' album (1999) eventually took three years to prepare. Towards the end of the studio sessions, Santeri Kallio of Kyyria was brought in to add some tasteful keyboard tracks to the songs, but first and foremost 'Tuonela' was a guitar album. Honing the newfound style to perfection, this album was liberally sprinkled with 1970s-style psychedelic touches, as well as some foreign spices provided by saxophonist/flutist Sakari Kukko of world music legend Piirpauke, and marked another great leap ahead for Amorphis. 


The new millennium was greeted with the tenth-anniversary compilation 'Story', released in May 2000 via Spinefarm Records, and another line-up change. Following the breakup of Kyyria, Santeri Kallio had already joined Amorphis as a full-time member, but bassist Olli-Pekka Laine felt he could no longer commit himself to the band. He was succeeded by another ex-Kyyria member, Niclas Etelävuori, who came in just in time for Amorphis's third U.S. tour. The band returned to the studio shortly afterward to record their fifth album 'Am Universum', released in 2001, which retained the moody atmosphere of 'Tuonela' whilst also introducing more varied soundscapes and a much wider dynamic range. Instead of letting the guitars dominate throughout, more space was given to keyboards and saxophone work, the latter again being contributed by Sakari Kukko. All vocals including the few remaining grunts were now performed by Pasi Koskinen, who had also written almost all of the lyrics.


In 2003, Relapse released the retrospective 'Chapters', which included a DVD featuring the band's videos from "Black Winter Day" to "Alone", but this release marked the end of Amorphis's longstanding relationship with Relapse Records. Freed from a contract whose small print had not always been in their best interests, the band members decided to record the next album on their own terms and look for a new label with the finished product already in hand. 'Far From The Sun' (2003) was produced by the band itself, which now had original drummer Jan Rechberger back in the fold after Pekka Kasari had quit to concentrate on family duties.


Most of the tracks were recorded at Niclas Etelävuori's and Santeri Kallio's own CCPC studio and no guest performances were involved apart from some background vocals, meaning that the album came closer to the Amorphis live sound than any of their previous recordings had. Compared to 'Am Universum', 'Far From The Sun' turned out heavier, more straightforward, and closer to the band's metal roots than the previous release, and was also once again more folk-oriented, this time with more of a Turkish and Persian far eastern theme. 


The album was released by Virgin/EMI in Europe the spring of 2003, but the US release had to wait until the fall of 2004 and would have been accompanied by a North American tour, had the tour not been canceled for reasons beyond the band's control. The prospect of this tour, however, had already given Pasi Koskinen the reason he had been looking for to leave the band in the late summer of 2004 after nine years, to concentrate on his various other musical projects. Pasi was replaced by Tomi Joutsen (Sinisthra) after a lengthy period of auditions for the role. The band received more than a hundred demo tapes, but found none of them to be a suitable fit for the band. Joutsen eventually secured an audition through word of mouth, and in 2005 he became the band’s new singer. Tomi Joutsen's intense, deeply emotional delivery immediately won the crowds over at each concert the band gave in 2005, including a one-month tour of North America. 


With a new singer and new energy, the band recorded their seventh album 'Eclipse', an acclaimed masterpiece that combined the best-loved elements of Amorphis's unique sound with fresh vigour. The album went straight to the top of the Finnish charts and was followed by triumphant live appearances all over Europe before the band retreated again to the recording studio. Following the release of Eclipse, Amorphis would also sign with its current label, Nuclear Blast. Tomi Joutsen brought not only new vigor and a fresh perspective to the band but also the initiative to revive the use of contrasting vocal styles that had contributed so much to the magic of 'Elegy' and 'Tales'. 'Eclipse' also featured a thematic return to the sources of Finland's literary heritage, recounting the fate of Kullervo, the most tragic character of the Kalevala.


Ensuing club gigs and festival appearances all over Europe established Amorphis as a first-rate live act, and all the while new songs were already in the making. Released in August 2007, 'Silent Waters' confirmed that a new era had indeed begun. This album was the first in the band's history to have been recorded with the same personnel as the previous one. All the new songs were based on a single episode from the Kalevala - namely Lemminkäinen's hunt for the Swan of Tuonela - and the release of the new album was preceded by a string of festival appearances - including Germany’s Wacken Open Air - and was immediately followed by a five-week Finnish tour. Throughout the rest of 2007, Amorphis toured in Europe, Russia, and Japan. In 2008 they played at several festivals in southeastern Europe, and toured in the USA and Canada in the fall. Eclipse and Silent Waters became the band’s first two gold-certified albums in Finland, as the band continued to grow their fanbase around the world.


Entering the studio straight after returning from a month of intense touring proved to be a wise choice, as Skyforger (2009) presents Amorphis tighter, more versatile and more focused than ever. The new album shares the lyrical concept of the two previous albums, its central character being Kalevala blacksmith Ilmarinen. The lyrics were again crafted by Finnish poet Pekka Kainulainen and translator Erkki Virta, who already collaborated on the previous album. Both the album and the single 'Silver Bride' went straight to number one in the Finnish charts, and the new songs were immediately tested and proven on the summer’s festival stages.


In September, Amorphis went on their first-ever tour of Latin America, followed by the extensive 'Forging Europe' tour in the fall. In the summer of 2010, the band presented its first-ever live DVD, which included two full shows recorded in 2009 as well as a career-spanning documentary. This release came at the same time as the 20th anniversary of Amorphis. To honor this milestone, the band re-recorded several of their classic tracks, and released them as a compilation album in September 2010


The band's tenth album 'The Beginning Of Times' (2011) showcases their trademark style to perfection, including plenty of reference to the death metal days, but simultaneously demonstrating that the band continues to embrace their more progressive and experimental side. Paying homage to Väinämöinen, the Kalevala's central character whom myth credits for bringing music into the world, the band brought forth its most versatile and nuanced effort to date. Iikka Kahri, who had been featured on flute and saxophone in several songs on Skyforger, was back in the fold, Tomi Koivusaari added a few discreet touches of pedal steel guitar and Santeri Kallio balanced the 1970s prog and 1990s death elements with some synth sounds straight out of the eighties. The album also featured the addition of Netta Dahlberg on backing vocals.


The band's eleventh album 'Circle' was released on April 19 2013 in Europe and April 30th in North America. On September 16, 2013, 'Circle' won Metal Hammer's "The Album of The Year" award. In 2014, Amorphis played a number of special 'Tales from the Thousand Lakes' 20th Anniversary shows where their 1994 album was performed in its entirety. The tour included festivals such as Wacken Open Air, Maryland Deathfest, and 70000 Tons of Metal with many other dates and festivals included.


The band began demoing new songs at the start of 2015, and recorded their twelfth studio full-length album 'Under The Red Cloud' in April 2015, at Fascination Street Studio, Örebro, Sweden with Jens Bogren. The album was released worldwide on 4 September 2015 by Nuclear Blast Records. The lyrics were written once again by Pekka Kainulainen, and similarly to 'Kalevala' they are descriptions of natural phenomena, seasons and the human mind. The poems do not form a complete story as such, but they are drawn together by a common theme. The release of the new album was followed by a world tour, starting with shows in the band's home country of Finland, followed by other parts of Europe with Nightwish & Arch Enemy in November 2015.


The thirteenth Amorphis studio album, called 'Queen of Time' was released on 18th May 2018 via Nuclear Blast Records. The recording of this album featured the band's former bass player Olli-Pekka 'Oppu' Laine who replaced longtime bassist Niclas Etelävuori, who after about 13 years with a steady line-up, quit Amorphis in April 2017 after their North American tour due to disagreements with the band's management, making this the first time since 'Tales from the Thousand Lakes' that all the original band members had played together on an album. On 23 March 2018, the band released the first single from the album, called "The Bee".


Amorphis released its fourteenth studio album 'Halo' on 24th February 2022, this marking the band's 30th anniversary since the release of its 1992 debut album 'The Karelian Isthmus'. Various complications related to the Covid-19 pandemic made the recording of the album somewhat challenging. The album is more guitar-driven and heavier than 'Queen of Time', continues to draw heavily on Finnish folklore (with references to Tuonela, the underworld realm of Finnish and Estonian mythology), and has been received well by both fans and critics, topping the charts in the band's home country of Finland and featuring in the top-10 charts of many other countries. Two songs from the album were released with full music videos early in 2022 ("The Moon" and "On the Dark Waters").



-------------
I use they/them pronouns (feel free to ask me about this!)

Check out my music on https://tempestsounds.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - my bandcamp !


Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: February 04 2024 at 11:55
^ thank you! Thumbs Up


Posted By: Booba Kastorsky
Date Posted: February 04 2024 at 15:35
[QUOTE=siLLy puPPy]
Despite all the controversy on PA it seems EVERY other source on the internet considers Amorphis as prog metal therefore sometimes i think we have to simply join the club in the near unanimous consensus regarding these things. I consider them prog light but still i personally don't comprehend why others can't hear any prog at all. Some of their newer albums are pretty clear cut to my ears.

I suggest listening more carefully. The prog isn't as blatant as Dream Theater or Fates Warning. It's a more sublte prog but still prog :)


Thanks, my point exactly, well put and illustrated!Clap


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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: February 19 2024 at 02:31
Added
Let's see a few reviews now. Smile


Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: February 19 2024 at 05:27
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Added
Let's see a few reviews now. Smile

very good band... I've just given them some basic ratings, based on my memory of their albums.. not heard them for about 5 years tbh, but I vaguely remember the couple that stood out.


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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson


Posted By: bardberic
Date Posted: March 08 2024 at 11:03
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Despite all the controversy on PA it seems EVERY other source on the internet considers Amorphis as prog metal therefore sometimes i think we have to simply join the club in the near unanimous consensus regarding these things. I consider them prog light but still i personally don't comprehend why others can't hear any prog at all. Some of their newer albums are pretty clear cut to my ears.

From Discogs:
http://www.discogs.com/artist/113365-Amorphis" rel="nofollow - https://www.discogs.com/artist/113365-Amorphis
Amorphis started out as a pure death metal band, but soon steered away
from the genre's underground scene and have since created their own
unique and highly successful blend of heavy metal, progressive rock and
folk. The name Amorphis was derived from the word "amorphous", which
means 'no determinate form or shape'.

From RYM:
http://rateyourmusic.com/artist/amorphis" rel="nofollow - https://rateyourmusic.com/artist/amorphis
<div ="info_hdr">Genres
<div ="info_"> https://rateyourmusic.com/genre/progressive-metal/" rel="nofollow - Progressive Metal , https://rateyourmusic.com/genre/melodic-death-metal/" rel="nofollow - Melodic Death Metal , https://rateyourmusic.com/genre/death-metal/" rel="nofollow - Death Metal <div ="info_">
<div ="info_">From Metal Archives:<div ="info_"> http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Amorphis/1" rel="nofollow - https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Amorphis/1 <div ="info_">Genre: Progressive/Death/Doom Metal<div ="info_">
<div ="info_">From Metal Music Archvies:<div ="info_"> http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/artist/amorphis/?ac=amorphi" rel="nofollow - http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/artist/amorphis/?ac=amorphi
<div ="info_">Progressive Metal / Death Metal / Melodic Death Metal
<div ="info_">
<div ="info_">From The Prog Mind:<div ="info_"> http://theprogmind.com/2022/02/04/amorphis-halo/" rel="nofollow - https://theprogmind.com/2022/02/04/amorphis-halo/
<div ="info_">
<div ="info_">From Metal Injection:<div ="info_"> http://metalinjection.net/upcoming-releases/amorphis-announces-heavier-and-more-progressive-new-album-halo" rel="nofollow - https://metalinjection.net/upcoming-releases/amorphis-announces-heavier-and-more-progressive-new-album-halo <div ="info_">AMORPHIS Announces "Heavier And More Progressive" New Album Halo<div ="info_">
<div ="info_">From ProgPowerUSA:<div ="info_"> http://progpowerusa.com/artists/amorphis/" rel="nofollow - https://progpowerusa.com/artists/amorphis/ <div ="info_">
<div ="info_">From TheProgSpace:<div ="info_"> http://theprogspace.com/amorphis-halo/" rel="nofollow - https://theprogspace.com/amorphis-halo/
<div ="info_">
<div ="info_">I suggest listening more carefully. The prog isn't as blatant as Dream Theater or Fates Warning. It's a more sublte prog but still prog :)<div ="info_">
<div ="info_">
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To be fair RYM way overuses the "progressive metal" tag, and frankly I don't consider Amorphis to be prog metal, but their music does have slight prog leanings I think. I would've wanted them in prog related, but you know how hard that one is. This is fine to me. "Prog-lite" is a good way to look at them. In a very similar way to Nevermore.


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: March 08 2024 at 13:41
^ totally agree but sometimes we bend to go with the overwhelming consensus. In this case prog lite is enough to warrant inclusion. I reevaluated a few albums before voting and there are enough prog elements to allow them in. Yeah, prog related would be better but PA is not an exact science.

I would be best if we could use multiple genre tags and secondary ones. Prog is definitely secondary even on their most proggy.

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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy


Posted By: FlashBack2210
Date Posted: March 13 2024 at 13:49
Wow! This is really very worthwhile music! I'd like to hear it in an instrumental version.




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