Why is VANGELIS categorized as Prog-Related (Led Zeppelin, David Bowie, et al) rather than Progressive Electronic (Tangerine Dream et al)?

Just interested in the thinking behind this. Thanks!

Sounds "Eclectic" enough to me.

And this, ladies and gentleman, is why we have 23 sub-genres listed on the home page.

Vangelis is awesome. Prog related because of his work with Aphrodite's Child and Jon Anderson I would think.

Thankfully he made the cut where Walter/Wendy Carlos and Tomita haven't. A cryin' shame that.

While Vangelis' music is keyboard-centric, not all of it is entirely electronic and/or synth-based. He plays grand piano, bass, and drums (the real kind) on albums like Albedo 0.39 (my personal favorite) and Direct. He's also credited with "sundry instruments" on Heaven and Hell. He collaborated with Irene Pappas to record Odes and added his voice (by way of vocoder) to "Ballad" on Spiral.

Hypothesis and The Dragon were unauthorized releases of full band studio jams circa the early '70s.

I like them, too. I just remembered they were issued under Vangelis' name, and he did sue.  IIRC, they were recorded in London not long after Aphrodite's Child had issued 666.

Hi,

In an interview that was sent out to FM stations about the time of "Heaven and Hell" ... he specified that his music came from his home and not necessarily studies. He says (I have to listen to it again, can't even paraphrase it now!) ... that he learned music at home, and that he follows his own instincts, not any specific kind of music, although he was in a rock/pop band (learning days) and then added some more to at least one other (Socrates) ... before going completely alone, and creating his own "movie music" which some of his early albums were from it seems like.

It was also at home that he "discovered" sounds that have added to his music and he even says that at dinner they used to hit the glasses with this or that for attention, and then various other sounds, which he apparently has extended to make different synthesizer sounds from everyone else ... he even says that every single one of his albums has t-spoons on it ... but for you and I to find them? .... 

Now you know why we can't even define the turkey ... but he is fantastic and will be remembered as one great and special composer ... complete with an OSCAR in his closet!

As credited on HaH, "sundry instruments." 

Paul, have you heard Soil Festivities (1984)? It's wonderful. His 1990 album The City is another cool ambient record that rarely gets a mention.

No, I haven't heard Soil Festivities  yet. I'll have to have a dig around for that one the next time I'm in The City. 

Thanks for the advice. If I start hearing Voices, then I know I'll be headed on a downward Spiral. 

The City is my favorite Vangelis album: a true masterpiece!

Steve Wyzard wrote: I have no intention of being argumentative

Oh yeah that ol' chestnut: some of my best friends are hermits etc

Vangelis should certainly be on PA no question but cut to the chase: the repeated discussions about his omission from a 'fully fledged' Prog category seem to stem from a fan's perception that Prog Related is somehow a lesser sub genre cos it's coloured yellow on the front page. Please always remember that none of the categories are qualitative in any shape or form. I have two of his albums but like me, he needs to ditch the beard and put down the fork.

Hi,

AND bring up the t-spoons more! 

Rosetta (2016), which was his first full album since El Greco, is really good. 

When Direct arrived, we visited multiple Wherehouse (FYE) locations so our "crew" could get it. I was the only one who at first bought the cassette (not the CD), as I was really into my brand new Aiwa portable at the time. The tape sounded really good, fidelity-wise. The stores thought they had a hit on their hands, because we cleaned them out. Luckily for them, we helped sell another copy every time we demo'd "The Motion of Stars" and "Dial Out" for somebody who only knew Vangelis as "the Chariots of Fire guy."

I've yet to pick up his 2019 piano album Nocturne, but it's on the list.

Rosetta is really good indeed. What about the soundtrack for Alexander?

I prefer 1492.

yes me too

 

   1970: Sex Power (soundtrack) - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5DEED2892E2529B8" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5DEED2892E2529B8

 

 Hard to believe this is Vangelis' debut album when you listen to the power of the magnificent, Wild and Beautiful track below, which has all of the trademark synthesizer magic of the epic Chariots of Fire soundtrack. 

 

Anyway Vangelis didn't start using traditional modular synths until about 1975 that were housed in a customised recording studio in West London. It was either Ignacio or Heaven Hell that was his first 'proper' electronic synth album.

I'd like to reiterate richardh's shout-out on "side 2" of the Chariots of Fire album. It's a masterful side-long suite where the composer improvises on the famous themes heard on "side1". It was hearing this piece that made me realize "maybe there's more to this guy than art-house soundtracks". Yes, we all heard "Titles" over and over and over again in 1981-82, but for a lot of us, that became our "gateway drug" to the world of Vangelis!

Heaven and Hell was the very first. Vangelis backed out of his audition for Yes due to a reluctance to being a "touring musician," and relocated from Paris to London and set up his new BoO, Nemo Studios. H&H was the first record he made there. The next was Albedo 0.39 (still my #1), followed by Ignacio.

Hrychu wrote: I don't think Vangelis is prog at all.

I'm not so sure Aphrodite's Child are either, to me they sound poppy with psychedelic leanings.

Albedo 0.39 will change your mind.

I doubt you've heard their 666 album then?

Hi,

And that is very clear when comparing the material, although I think that the electronic synths used were not used as far, or as much as they did later. 

Aphrodites Child- '666' fits well in 'proto prog' imo....found an original on Vertigo some years back...collectable these days.

Since my original post, I have now heard Soil Festivities (loved it!) and Direct (not so much...).

Will be looking forward to future explorations!

Hi,

I would recommend listening to things in order ... so that the differences do not thrown you off as much. It is very clear when he started doing digital stuff and how it influenced his abilities, but it did not "change" his basic style which was to have some long passages of incredible beauty and touch which he developed very early.

Above all, remember that Vangelis is a composer for the ages and even has an OSCAR for his work, and all that means is that his music will be remembered far longer than most rock musicians anywhere in the world. His music was so valuable and important to the band's work, that its "visualization" leant itself to film, where with the right director, his music was tremendous. Some folks might not like this bit or that in CoF or this bit or that in BR, but no one can say that the music did not fit, or was not used right ... visually, specially in a film, its use was stunning!

The only problem is that most of us here, are just rockers, and having to listen to something without lyrics that asks you to visualize something of your own, makes for very tough listening. Now you know why so many folks can not handle Tangerine Dream or Klaus Schulze (specially!). In many ways, it really should be said that this is way beyond what we consider "music".

Don't miss Antarctica (soundtrack) and his latest (not counting the piano album), Rosetta...!

Soil Festivities is a beautiful focused electronic album , certainly check out Antarctica next which is almost a companion album and was recorded about the same time.

I really like Direct but it's a lot less focused. However Intergalactic Radio Station is one of my favourite Vangelis pieces . The whole album has a much more 'proggy' feel to it and wanders about quite a bit!

Out of all of his catalogue, I much prefer the two collaborations he did with Irene Papas whose wonderful singing gives the right amount of passion and drama to the music of Vangelis.

http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=14342" rel="nofollow - Odes (1979)

http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=7624" rel="nofollow - Rapsodies (1986)

This thread was the inspiration for listening to and rating all of Vangelis' albums recently, and at the same time discovering the amazing voice of Irene Papas. 

There is a bit more listed at Discogs, but it's mostly nigh on impossible to find, even for a renowned ferret like myself!

https://www.discogs.com/artist/105460-Irene-Papas" rel="nofollow - https://www.discogs.com/artist/105460-Irene-Papas

I was trying to make sense of Irene Papas' album titles on Discogs, but it's all Greek to me. 

Hi,

Makes me wonder ... what is more important ... that we consider Vangelis worthy of being listed here or being associated with the t-shirts, sweat pants or shoes.

Just strange seeing these discussions ... and whether it is this or that ... I would rather accept the credit and ability for being acknowledged than anything else. 

In Chrome you can translate pages to English on the fly - in other brrowsers you'd have to go to the Google Translates site.

My older brother had a homemade cassette with some Vangelis (selections from Albedo 0.39 and Heaven and Hell) on it, and played it for my sister and I back around '77.  We both loved what we heard, and went to the local record store to get some Vangelis.  My brother could not remember the titles of the albums he recorded them from, so we had to guess... I bought Albedo 0.39, and was stoked because I found the exact pieces he had played for us that I loved.

My sister bought Beaubourg and then went to the theatres to see the new sci-fi movie out at the time, Alien.  Spooked the crap out of her.  She then went home and listened to Beaubourg and was so freaked out by it that she said her heart was just racing at every weird electronic burst and bleep.  Always cracked me up.

I'd love to "rescore" certain films. Ridley Scott's Alien featuring Vangelis' Beauborg sounds like a great match.