John Williams vs. Danny Elfman
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Topic: John Williams vs. Danny Elfman
Posted By: Shadowyzard
Subject: John Williams vs. Danny Elfman
Date Posted: March 30 2021 at 08:39
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Two prolific and accomplished composers. I'll go with John Williams as I think he is a real genius. I love Danny Elfman and his otherworldly soundtracks immensely too, though. No "both" option, sorry. Your pick?  
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Replies:
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: March 30 2021 at 09:52
| Going with Danny because he's quirky and because JW is going to win anyway (or maybe I am wrong?). JW is brilliant but his scores for a monster movie like Jurassic Park and a comedy like Home Alone both sound similar. I think somewhere he got 'typecast' and was asked to keep repeating that symphonic sound irrespective of whether the film really required it. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 30 2021 at 09:57
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No both option, so no vote ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: March 30 2021 at 10:01
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@rogerthat ^ Really? I think virtually all the great composers have "signature elements" in their works, and I believe JW is a standout example in not utilizing them like creating variants of his earlier ones. Conversely, I think DE is obviously the less diverse one. (Self-inspiration much?) Anyway, thanks for the comment even though we don't agree about this issue. 
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Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: March 30 2021 at 10:03
I just wanted this to be a tough choice. 
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SteveG wrote:Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: March 30 2021 at 10:09
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Williams ------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: March 30 2021 at 10:22
I don't hear much of the Once Upon A Time in America score in Untouchables and I don't hear much of either in Wolf. That is, it wouldn't even be a 'sympathy vote' if it was Morricone v/s JW for me. And as for not utilizing signature elements, I swear I heard a version of the Jurassic Park theme (the trumpet-string one when the Brontosaurus appears) in Force Awakens. I can't pinpoint where as that would require having to watch Force Awakens again, which I have no desire to.
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Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: March 30 2021 at 10:28
| ^ I'm not defending JW here, but I'm sure he is the more diverse composer. I wouldn't be surprised if he "fabricated" some of his formulae in some of his works, but in general he is a genius in composing IMO. Harry Potter... He was in his 70s then, I guess. I believe some of the stuff JW composed for that movie are nothing but splendid which also fit to the mood of a fantasy movie being mainly aimed at adolescent (and even child) viewers. |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: March 30 2021 at 10:42
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JWs score in Harry Potter, the glockenspiel work is quite stunning. Ofte for Williams hes peaces are much deeper and coompelling when one listens past the opening chords sequence intro, but hes also the best composer at creating hooks. The opening ridds hooks on your ears. The intro to Superman is one of hes finest. Hes most experimentive score are A Close Encounter of Third Kind, spessialy the tuba/bassoon vs obo part. -------------  
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: March 30 2021 at 18:58
| My 'minor' problem with his scores is they are all symphonic and all scored for orchestral instruments. Not much guitar or keyboard, rarely any rock or funk grooves etc. I don't think he is completely to blame for it because scoring for Lucas and Spielberg's films shaped that sound of his scores. So I blame it more on their conservatism and excessive fondness for Golden Era scores (which they seem to have wanted him to emulate). But I like to hear some eclecticism in the sonic palate of a score. I get that to some extent from Danny and in spades from Morricone. |
Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: March 30 2021 at 19:08
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^ Yet, Elfman's prowess as for musical theories is far inferior to Williams' methinks. I can always sing the melodies that Danny creates, but JW's some modulations etc. are far too sophisticated for being able to do that. Try crooning the main melody of The Imperial March, for instance. Without the help of an instrument, it is goddamnawfully difficult. I'm not trained musically, but people always praise my musical ear. Anyway, I'm a big fan of Elfman too. It is infinitely better that they are doing their things in their ways, which are like night & day. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: March 30 2021 at 19:58
Oh, not only can I croon them, I could play them on the keyboard. So I don't think that's a good test. Regardless I get your point. JW is far more complex than Danny Elfman. It's the similar sounding tone of the scores that I don't like so much. I wish he had said no to his long time collaborators at some point, ditched the boring Star Wars and monster movies and taken up more daring and complicated films. We could have seen more of what he was capable of that way. He was a great jazz player before he became a composer. But other than Catch Me If You Can, we never really got to see that side of his music. |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: March 30 2021 at 21:53
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option 1 ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: March 31 2021 at 04:24
Actually, playing a modulated part with an instrument is a piece of cake, compared to crooning it, for me. So, this is not a proper sign that makes a part less sophisticated. All in all, that's perhaps because I don't have a trained ear. I always have difficulty in catching up with some of JW's tricks while crooning, if there's not an instrumental assistance. |
Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: March 31 2021 at 05:16
| John Williams |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: March 31 2021 at 11:39
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Fun fact; the son of John Williams is the current and former vocalist of Toto Joeseph Williams, when hes introduced during band introduction David Paich and band playes some Star Wars theme/ John williams medley -------------
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: March 31 2021 at 14:08
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I'd have to give it to Williams for the breadth of his film work, mastery of thematics, and galactic musical knowledge. He may have arrangers and orchestrators helping out but all the notes are his. You can hear him as far back as the '60s in Lost in Space and many other things when he was hip & swinging 'Johnny Williams' . But I also give Elfman a lot of credit for his innovations and emphasis on mood rather than structure, like how the great Bernard Herrmann approached scoring. You create feelings rather than compositions-- tension, adventure, mystery. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: March 31 2021 at 17:34
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Elfmans score for Batman is as classic as Williams Supermans theme -------------
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: March 31 2021 at 21:31
Yes, thank you, this is essentially what I was driving at. Essentially, I like scoring that upon listening to the music brings the scene to my mind. Because it fits like a glove with the mood and atmosphere of the film. Actually, one of my favourite JW scores is Dracula (1979) for that reason.
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Posted By: Intruder
Date Posted: April 06 2021 at 19:16
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What?!? William or Elfman? Gabriel's horn or a water fart? ------------- I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there..... |
Posted By: Tancos
Date Posted: April 06 2021 at 19:36
John Williams himself is the son of Johnny Williams, the drummer with the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Williams_%28drummer%29" rel="nofollow - Raymond Scott Quintette .
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Posted By: geekfreak
Date Posted: April 18 2021 at 13:36
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John Williams ------------- Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake." Music Is Live Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed. Keep Calm And Listen To The Music… < |