Two Anti-System Movies from 1999
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Topic: Two Anti-System Movies from 1999
Posted By: Shadowyzard
Subject: Two Anti-System Movies from 1999
Date Posted: February 22 2021 at 13:50
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OK, I recently did 1980s, 2000s and 2010s movie polls, now it's time to provide the missing link and conclude. I'll go with "Both", by the way.  
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Replies:
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: February 22 2021 at 14:31
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I prefer Fight Club ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Gentle and Giant
Date Posted: February 22 2021 at 14:37
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The Matrix ------------- Oh, for the wings of any bird, other than a battery hen |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: February 22 2021 at 16:27
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Neither. Not my kind of movies. And "The Matrix" is a lot worse than "Welt am Draht" ("World on a Wire") by Rainer Werner Fassbinder that dealt with the same themes 26 years earlier. -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Hiram
Date Posted: February 23 2021 at 01:59
| Fight Club, easily. |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: February 23 2021 at 03:20
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The Matrix. ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: February 23 2021 at 10:11
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The Matrix ------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: February 23 2021 at 10:40
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The Matrix certainly had some unique film making devices utilized, but as films go...  ------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: February 23 2021 at 11:56
I never understood why anybody would watch movies like these  -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Argo2112
Date Posted: February 23 2021 at 12:35
Did you see Fight Club? It's not what you may think it is. |
BaldJean wrote:Posted By: JD
Date Posted: February 23 2021 at 13:53
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: February 23 2021 at 14:06
I saw excerpts and read a synopsis of the movie. not interested ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: February 23 2021 at 14:19
The Wachowskis are smart, like George Bernard Shaw was. In Shaw's time, most of the audience in the theatre was composed of adolescent girls, so GBS added melodramatic elements in his plays. Likewisely, most of today's mainstream "movie goers" are interested in action scenes, I think that's why The Wachowskis used all those action and fighting scenes. I call it "smartness", whilst some might call it having a mindset devoid of the "art for art's sake" principle. I guess in both cases, the creators had very good intentions about making the "societies" better, by disillusioning them. Also, hey... They got lots of money thanks to their smartness, too! |
Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: February 23 2021 at 14:33
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I watch these movies because they wear pants, sometimes two or more at the same time. Oh, and how can we forget socks? ------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: February 23 2021 at 14:39
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Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: February 23 2021 at 15:02
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The Matrix. The sequels were big deceptions, though. ------------- The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: February 23 2021 at 15:04
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The Matrix trivia: Keanu Reeves was The Wachowskis' 3rd pick for the Neo role. The first was Brad Pitt whom rejected it. (I read it long ago somewhere, hope that is true information.) I think Brad Pitt is a stellar actor, but Keanu Reeves was much better for a character who expects to "wake up". Brad Pitt looks too smart and already "awakened". P.S. I would never accept any of those pills. I get taking the red pill, it is a plausible/viable choice. But I'd take neither, and go home with the information I gathered. |
Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: February 23 2021 at 15:17
Ditto. The sequels were horrible, at least the 3rd. Reloaded was so-so, and if compared to the first movie, it is horrible; but Revolutions was utterly terrible... What I didn't like most is, they make Neo so dumb to fight Agent Smith all the time... He can fly like Superman, and Smith is not injured or wounded by any physical hits. So, why fighting him all the time? For the sake of the "action" scenes, baby. I know!
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Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: February 23 2021 at 15:25
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Yeah, but great choreographies, most of the time. Well, much over the top, sometimes (or all of the times, maybe), but it worked for me in the first one; and then it became a gimmick... ------------- The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: February 23 2021 at 15:29
| ^ I agree, in the first movie, that is understandable as Neo was certain of neither the limits of his capabilities nor the strength of Agent Smith. BUT, he should have long understood thereafter that Agent Smith is "invincible", when it comes to physical attacks! |
Posted By: Erenan
Date Posted: February 23 2021 at 17:07
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Definitely the Matrix. The red pill blue pill thing has taken on a
life of its own and so the film is legendary in terms of influencing
culture. IMO Fight Club simply isn't on that level. Fight
Club's fine I guess, but the whole time I felt like the film had this
smug tone to it, like the filmmakers thought they were better than I am.
And the big "twist" wasn't a surprise at all. I knew what was going on
from the first moment Brad Pitt appeared on screen. It's
kind of like this: Once I read an essay by a game design theorist who
shall remain nameless. It was kind of a poorly written piece IMO. And
then almost at the end the writer goes explicitly, "Now, you're confused
at this point, but look it's intentional. This essay is intentionally
convoluted and confusing." The problem is that the essay wasn't
confusing at all. The ideas were basic and easy to follow. So then I
just felt like, ok, you're kind of overestimating yourself as a writer. I
feel like that with Fight Club, but like, the narrative film version of
that. Like when someone is explaining to you that you've been sleeping
your whole life and you need to wake up, but they're very condescending
about it. ------------- https://lukesimpsonmusic.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: JD
Date Posted: February 23 2021 at 20:38
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^^Re: Neo and Smith Fighting all the time You guys are really missing the point. It's a metaphor for standing up to your greatest fears and never giving in to the belief that nothing is possible. You gotta dig deeper into movies than the surface visuals. Also, all the overt religious imagery and references were, IMHO, distractions and lessened the movie's impact for me.
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: February 23 2021 at 20:53
Any movie that casts Meatloaf with purportedly prosthetic 'bitch tits' and still turns out well gets my vote (Fight Club) Barbara Dennerlein was originally offered the role but turned it down ------------- 
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Posted By: geekfreak
Date Posted: February 23 2021 at 23:12
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The Matrix ------------- Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake." Music Is Live Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed. Keep Calm And Listen To The Music… < |
Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: February 24 2021 at 01:18
That can be interpreted in many ways. Yours is one, mine (and suitkees') is another. Also, Neo's "futile" fights with Smith can be seen plainly as "having fun" or "testing his fighting skills/practising his fighting moves" too. Religious imagery is not "overtly" done in the movies, I think. There is an oracle, Morpheus' name is also a cultural reference outside the scope of the religious domain. There are lots of cultural references in the movies, and none of them is too dominant, I think. |
Posted By: Erenan
Date Posted: February 24 2021 at 01:31
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I think some of the Jesus imagery towards the end of Matrix 3 is pretty on the nose. The first movie is more subtle IMO. ------------- https://lukesimpsonmusic.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: February 24 2021 at 01:42
what I detest is not what it is all about. I detest the way it is done ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: February 24 2021 at 01:50
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Neither. Seen both films once, and neither made much of an impact on me. The Matrix had some interesting ideas, but presented in an uninteresting way. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: February 24 2021 at 02:46
| Surprised that no one but me has picked the "Both" option, as of yet. |
Posted By: Shadowyzard
Date Posted: February 24 2021 at 03:39
BTW, this is a great take. Fantastic!  I similarly always feel like M. Night Shyamalan is using "cheap" tricks to look "smart". He designs all the scenes like he wants to show to the audience, and in the final twist, makes people think like, "WOW, what a genius the director is!" I was never fooled! Though, I loved his latest movie Glass. I figure he redeemed the negative feelings he had aroused in me with that one. Especially, what a crappy movie The Village was... |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: February 24 2021 at 05:03
choosing between two pills is actually an old literary device; famous literary works where it occurs are "Alice in Wonderland", the first Sherlock Holmes novel "A Study in Scarlet" or "The Princess Bride", to name but a few ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: February 24 2021 at 05:22
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^ Yes, The Matrix is a bit heavy and demonstrative in all its references. If we have to dig deeper, let's dig a cave: the film is a decent adaptation of Plato's Allegory of the cave... Despite this demonstrative "deeper" aspect of the film, for me it was just good entertainment. Those dancing fights were very much inspired by Japanese samouraï films (think of some films by Seijun Suzuki...). The story of The Matrix is not that original, but they way they adapted all their influences and references into a SF action movie was very well done, imo. ------------- The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: February 24 2021 at 05:33
I am of a different opinion. it did in my opinion rely way too much on action and special FX. I hate action movies
------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: February 24 2021 at 05:43
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^Then for god's sake stay away from John Wick movies. The last one was 2hrs of running Gunkata with the remaining 10 minutes devoted to plot. A serious waste of time. ------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: February 24 2021 at 05:43
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^^ It's not that different an opinion on my general take on that (action and FX): when the story gets buried under too much show off-thingies then that's not my cup of tea either. But I can not (and never will) take a general stance against a whole genre. The Matrix found a balance that was sufficiently effective for me, as an action movie (not that it would be in my top 50 or something, but that's a complete other thing). It entertained me so I'm not going to say I didn't like it because it is an action movie... ------------- The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: February 24 2021 at 05:53
the thematic of "The Matrix" was handled much better (and with hardly any action at all) in the 1973 movie "Welt am Draht" ("World on a Wire") by Rainer Werner Fassbinder. I am a big fan of that movie. "The Matrix" is a real stinker compared to that one ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Erenan
Date Posted: February 24 2021 at 09:28
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Yes, Alice in Wonderland is definitely an ancestor of sorts to The Matrix. The latter even explicitly nods its head to the former ("Follow the white rabbit," "Take the red pill and find out how deep the rabbit hole goes"). It's attempting to build on a long tradition and the question then is simply "does it succeed?" Well, of course, "does it succeed?" isn't actually a simple question. It covers a lot of ground because you have to think about what success is and you can get into all of the many arguments that have been had about art and what makes it good or bad and on and on and on. That's a deep rabbit hole of its own. My opinion is that it does succeed. If you hate action movies, then yes, you're very unlikely to give The Matrix your overall approval because at its heart it is one. ------------- https://lukesimpsonmusic.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: March 08 2021 at 06:05
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The matrix gets by on cast energy. Fight Club in a great personality breakdown amidst the corporate instigation. The end won't work which is disappointing. But the symbolism remains the same. P.S. We have broken the first and second rules? What now?
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