If it's Fusion, is it also Prog?
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Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: General Music Discussions
Forum Description: Discuss and create polls about all types of music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=124815
Printed Date: November 30 2024 at 13:59
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Topic: If it's Fusion, is it also Prog?
Posted By: Ronstein
Subject: If it's Fusion, is it also Prog?
Date Posted: December 10 2020 at 06:50
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In its broadest sense of being 'progressive' - (definition; happening or developing gradually or in stages), is it reasonable to define any new fusion music as progressive? I'm thinking of someone like this, fusing music from multiple culture. |
Replies:
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: December 10 2020 at 07:56
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Video doesn't work. Absolutely not. Jazz-rock like Kenny G is fusion but not progressive. There are many ethnic folk / jazz acts that get rejected here all the time. Fusion simply means the mixing of two or more disparate genres of music which in the case of this site would involve progressive rock as one part of the equation therefore any considerations would have to have aspects of what makes prog rock. I.e. time signature complexities, unorthodox compositional styles and all those other attributes that are described in this site's definition. Whatever video that was that you posted, please post it again. -------------  https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Ronstein
Date Posted: December 10 2020 at 08:22
| Strange it's not working, try the link - https://youtu.be/HnI6UT06Oto" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/HnI6UT06Oto |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: December 10 2020 at 09:58
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The video embed worked for me, and I think it’s terrific and progressive. The fusing of genres into something new is progressive, I would say, even if I wouldn’t consider all fusion to be progressive. In terms of Prog, I see a big part of that as being about moving beyond the rock lexicon (i.e. non-canonical rock) and this commonly has been done by taking in the influences of other music. This approach extends to progressive pop etc. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: December 10 2020 at 10:03
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The embedded video works fine for me too. All I will say is that "progressive" and "Prog" are not neccesarily the same thing.
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: December 10 2020 at 10:46
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I would think most fusion would qualify as progressive/prog...though one would need to listen to make that final call. This piece is as proggy as many things here on PA that have an instrumental approach with minimal vocals. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: December 10 2020 at 11:20
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^^ That's very true and progressive (adjective) rock and Progressive Rock (i.e Prog -- noun) as a genre are not necessarily the same thing. Progressive music comes in many shapes. Sorry to digress, and not to get too much into the old progressive vs. Prog discussion which has been done so many times at this site, but I have rather thought that when progressive rock became codified as the Progressive Rock genre it became less interesting. I'm more interested in progressive music. When it became less about experimentation, expanding the rock lexicon and breaking the typical conventions, and it was more about sounding like and imitating others deemed Prog, much of it could become quite stale and much less adventurous. Much of Prog is so generic, what I sometimes call Prog-by-numbers, and I would like more that are Prog genre bending and progress farther from any rock roots. There's more to Prog than that still, it is also about the progression in the way the way the music is composed, and Prog can be quite a nebulous label. The recycling of old ideas, and fusion of styles, has been and continues to be important to Prog. I sometimes think that if a band is trying to be Prog then it's not likely to be that interesting. I do like a progressive approach to making music. I have come to appreciate more of the retro Prog acts (a sort of regressive Progressive Rock), but most often I like it when there is something unique to the approach. I love many that draw on old Krautrock and exotica/ lounge of the 60s. Much of my favourite progressive music is not really rock. Sorry, this could be much better expressed. Anyway, suffice to say that fusion that creates something truly new due to a unique fusion of influences and approach might well be considered progressive, but not necessarily Prog or to be considered Prog Related category worthy or fitting of the PR parameters (even if there is some relation to bands considered to be Prog, no matter how distant). By the way, I hope you don't mind, but I will move this to General Music discussions because this seems to be a more general progressive music and relate discussion (lots of non-Prog progressive music), and this forum is intended to be about acts included in the Prog Related and Proto Prog categories at PA. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: The Anders
Date Posted: December 10 2020 at 11:25
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As in fusion of any styles? If the music is fusioning different styles in a new or unexpected way, I'd say it is progressive in the real sense of the word. But not necessarily prog (as a genre).
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Posted By: Ronstein
Date Posted: December 11 2020 at 05:45
Fine with me
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Logan wrote:Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: February 07 2021 at 03:45
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Jazz fusion is as prog to say the US as symphonic rock is to the
UK. So ... yes indeed. Jazz is the USA's classical music and fusing that
with rock is pretty much the same thing as Wagner meets rock. Caveat. Something might not have worked as well as it might but it still makes it progressive. I wonder if fusing punk with disco and calling it new wave is progressive...? Hmm. I think some form of art music (any sub genre of jazz or classical will do) in order to have the necessary uplift. |
Posted By: A Crimson Mellotron
Date Posted: February 07 2021 at 04:21
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What exactly is fusion? Just jazz fusion? Is it applicable to genres like pop or metal? |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: February 07 2021 at 04:28
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Apparently innovation is not considered to be a factor on this site, as proven by the rejection of Barbara Dennerlein who is innovative in many ways - use of MIDI-technology for the Hammond B-3, innovative style of bass pedal playing and playing jazz on church organs on a regular basis. -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: February 09 2021 at 11:47
| Imo, fusion, psychedelic, post rock and electronic are all separate categories and not really part of prog in the strictest sense. The same thing with prog metal. It's not metal prog it's prog metal and metal is related but not the same as rock. That being said I don't really have a problem with any of them being on this website because it can help people explore and discover new music outside of just the traditional prog. |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: February 14 2021 at 13:08
Kenny G is not progressive (except when it comes to managing his bank account), nor is he fusion. He's lounge jazz.
 ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: February 14 2021 at 13:11
https://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/artist/barbara-dennerlein" rel="nofollow - https://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/artist/barbara-dennerlein doesn't she belong here though?
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Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: February 19 2021 at 18:43
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Is T-Square prog? ------------- “On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.” — Ernest Vong |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: February 19 2021 at 23:26
I also wouldn't consider Kenny G fusion, at all. If he fuses two genres couldn't it be called crossover, as well? The sh*t never ends, lol. Miles Davis Bitches Brew is Jazz fusion. Kenny G is dentist office Jazz. ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: February 20 2021 at 01:54
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^^^^  I would rather discuss is it's Jazz-Rock (or to a lesser extent jazz-funk), is it also prog? To my ears, fusion implies something a bit different , especially once the 80's kicked in. Some forms of fusion (however "progressive they may be) don't have much to do with "prog", IMHO. I realize the borders between JR and fusion are blurry - and even the definition of jazz rock is disputable: whether you're from rock background or a jazz one as well. I say this now, but back then, I was in favour (and even pushed) the inclusion of fusion name into the JR/F genre.
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: February 20 2021 at 04:16
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Always regarded fusion different o jazz rock Fusion was very jazz based but very experimental instrumentally, socially e.g. Mahavishnu Orchestra, Al Di Meola. Jazz rock used the harmony but unlike jazz the drums are played as per rock, from the feet up while jazz is from the cymbals down. This I know, annoys some jazz fans. Miles was fusion while a lot of Stanley Clarke is jazz rock, and fusion, the lines blurred. Jazz rock also allowed a more commercial, or song based approach e.g. Steely Dan. Very little fusion is song oriented or intended to be commercial. There was jazz funk later repackaged into rare groove. Even enabled a little disco expression, bless. So the music was high brow progressive in fusion and high to middle in rock and pop, very sophisticated stuff but more easily accessed by the mainstream of commercial music. Progressive every which way really... You still get jazz. |
Posted By: jamesbaldwin
Date Posted: February 20 2021 at 13:12
I agree.... and Steely Dan? ------------- Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion. |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: February 20 2021 at 13:49
I'm in a Land of Con-Fusion when it comes to deciding whether Jazz Fusion is also Prog. 
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