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Topic: Roger Waters - The Pros & Cons of Going SoloPosted By: Psychedelic Paul
Subject: Roger Waters - The Pros & Cons of Going Solo
Date Posted: November 10 2020 at 05:14
One of the obvious pros of going solo is, an artist is free to realise their artistic vision without the constraints of being in a band, but one of the cons is, an artist's solo albums might not receive the recognition they truly deserve, and may be met by The Wall of indifference in The Final Cut. I have High Hopes that this thread will go some way to change that by featuring some of Roger Waters lesser-known songs over the last fifty years, starting by going all the way back to 1970.
Roger Waters' Discography & Videography
1970: Roger Waters & Ron Geesin - Music from the Body - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kYi_W9V4PGdQqF16qM1-aXK1eKrH7tQAs" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kYi_W9V4PGdQqF16qM1-aXK1eKrH7tQAs
1983: Pink Floyd - The Final Cut - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFEDE25F4A684239E" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFEDE25F4A684239E
1984: Roger Waters - The Pros & Cons of Hitch Hiking - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_l4S4hqzoPYGSTOnbGutKs28BGGLoCNfHI" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_l4S4hqzoPYGSTOnbGutKs28BGGLoCNfHI
1986: Roger Waters - When the Wind Blows (soundtrack) - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHcPTPk2B4oyVVKA-cNwccoKqQ6h7YGFZ" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHcPTPk2B4oyVVKA-cNwccoKqQ6h7YGFZ
1987: Roger Waters - Radio K.A.O.S. - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_koI10jUmXAaS4Dr1TJKWk8NW4l9cWbrv4" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_koI10jUmXAaS4Dr1TJKWk8NW4l9cWbrv4
1990: Roger Waters - The Wall - Live in Berlin - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyGHs2yXwu1Sg4DXha46hfqGs6LarGe8w" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyGHs2yXwu1Sg4DXha46hfqGs6LarGe8w
1992: Roger Waters - Amused to Death - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_ka1U3tes8Atdy1A_8oxGbPw7qVyg2qhIQ" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_ka1U3tes8Atdy1A_8oxGbPw7qVyg2qhIQ
2000: Roger Waters - In the Flesh - Live - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDTWsuyDYRM" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDTWsuyDYRM
2005: Roger Waters - Ca Ira - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lN1_1cC7SPRFct9GprFWnNvLDspc7M214" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lN1_1cC7SPRFct9GprFWnNvLDspc7M214
2006: Roger Waters - Dark Side of the Moon Tour (unreleased) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDYL-ywrLcs" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDYL-ywrLcs
2010: Roger Waters - The Wall - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAtusYxDlaw" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAtusYxDlaw
2017: Roger Waters - Is This the Life We Really Want - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mPigivZV2DMiN4zZXBZyuFIWJeIZ4PfJY" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mPigivZV2DMiN4zZXBZyuFIWJeIZ4PfJY
2020: Roger Waters - Us + Them - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiUeWr3oVtc" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiUeWr3oVtc
2022: Roger Waters - The Lockdown Sessions - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kHSppQrHjZrehfvgTQBS9nwG9b-dCKqZE" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kHSppQrHjZrehfvgTQBS9nwG9b-dCKqZE
2023: Roger Waters - This is Not a Drill: Live in Prague - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDXojvpCl2I" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDXojvpCl2I
2023: Roger Waters - The Dark Side of the Moon Redux - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDhajrZgo0TLJDDMa0XI_zqybDzGBoWfH" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDhajrZgo0TLJDDMa0XI_zqybDzGBoWfH
Roger Waters - Give Birth to a Smile , from the soundtrack album, Music for the Body (1970), featuring Ron Geesin & the other three members of Pink Floyd on this final song from the album.
Replies: Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: November 10 2020 at 06:00
Let me know when you actually get to the Pros And Cons album.
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
Posted By: Ronstein
Date Posted: November 10 2020 at 06:10
SteveG wrote:
Let me know when you actually get to the Pros And Cons album.
Which was, apparently, going to a Pink Floyd album until it all went pear-shaped.
'Amused to Death' is head and shoulders above anything else in his solo canon, I reckon.
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: November 10 2020 at 06:16
SteveG wrote:
Let me know when you actually get to the Pros And Cons album.
That would be right about now at 5:01am.
The title track and my favourite song from the album.
Posted By: A Crimson Mellotron
Date Posted: November 10 2020 at 06:39
Enjoyable album, it is not on par with the Floyd classics but I think he did a great job with the concept and the songwriting.
Posted By: Zeph
Date Posted: November 10 2020 at 07:27
Amused To Death and ITTLWRW? stand out to me and are enjoyable albums.
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 10 2020 at 07:29
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
...
Roger Waters - Give Birth to a Smile , from the soundtrack album, Music from the Mind & Body (1970), featuring Ron Geesin & the other three members of Pink Floyd on this final song from the album.
...
Hi,
Disgraceful ... that you would ignore the best song in there ... "Our Song" ... making all the others sound silly and shmoozy!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 10 2020 at 07:37
Zeph wrote:
Amused To Death and ITTLWRW? stand out to me and are enjoyable albums.
Hi,
"Amused to Death" is (for me) his best solo album. It has a lot more material that anyone can select and play within a rock show. After that, I would select "Radio Kaos", solely because it is true and right on, even if it was just a thing about Jim Ladd and some of his adventures in LA the most famous of which was the night that the number 1 FM Rock station disappeared only to become a new wave station 5 minutes later ... nothing was ever said, meaning that many folks got a pay out to say nothing, and life continued and in a place like LA with so many incendiary bands and stuff ... no one gave a damn. That makes "Radio Kaos" way more important, but in the end it signified the end of "FM Radio's" importance and how some corporate folks thought about the whole thing ... they didn't care about the music or the work that had been done into getting into number 1.
So when you hear ... "radio waste" ... you know what it means, but the funny/weird thing is that RW never said anything about the BBC, which was worse than the American c**terpart corporations, who at least ... (big fisting deal!!!) had an hour or two per week ... let's see 24x7 equals and they only play one of two hours?
I have not heard, in its entirety, the last album and won't comment on it until I listen to it. But, honestly, I have not gotten the CD's of a couple of the albums, because there are a lot more things I want to get that are way more interesting than RW ... and another version of The Wall ... not even for toilet paper, thank you!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: November 10 2020 at 08:55
It is a decent album, even though the first 31 minutes are a somewhat dragging waltz. Radio KAOS is slightly better, but Amused to Death is obviously his best work. I find his last album also rather enjoyable.
-------------
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: November 10 2020 at 10:47
someone_else wrote:
It is a decent album, even though the first 31 minutes are a somewhat dragging waltz. Radio KAOS is slightly better, but Amused to Death is obviously his best work. I find his last album also rather enjoyable.
Overall, I'd choose In the Flesh (2000) as my favourite Roger Waters album.
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: November 10 2020 at 11:12
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
someone_else wrote:
It is a decent album, even though the first 31 minutes are a somewhat dragging waltz. Radio KAOS is slightly better, but Amused to Death is obviously his best work. I find his last album also rather enjoyable.
Overall, I'd choose In the Flesh (2000) as my favourite Roger Waters album.
Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: November 10 2020 at 11:32
"Is This the World We Really Want" has passed under my radar, so it is one yet to explore... I've always liked The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking and listen to it regularly in my car, but I think indeed that Amused to Death is his best.
I'm less impressed by his (or PFs) soundtrack work.
-------------
The razamataz is a pain in the bum
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: November 10 2020 at 11:46
Cristi wrote:
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
someone_else wrote:
It is a decent album, even though the first 31 minutes are a somewhat dragging waltz. Radio KAOS is slightly better, but Amused to Death is obviously his best work. I find his last album also rather enjoyable.
Overall, I'd choose In the Flesh (2000) as my favourite Roger Waters album.
Yes, it's a live album and it's one of the best concerts I've ever seen, having watched it again this afternoon.
I wasn't sure if I'm still allowed to post the full concert here, so I've provided the YouTube link instead.
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: November 10 2020 at 12:04
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
Cristi wrote:
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
someone_else wrote:
It is a decent album, even though the first 31 minutes are a somewhat dragging waltz. Radio KAOS is slightly better, but Amused to Death is obviously his best work. I find his last album also rather enjoyable.
Overall, I'd choose In the Flesh (2000) as my favourite Roger Waters album.
Yes, it's a live album and it's one of the best concerts I've ever seen, having watched it again this afternoon.
I wasn't sure if I'm still allowed to post the full concert here, so I've provided the YouTube link instead.
most of that live album is Pink Floyd, so I wouldn't mention it as relevant Roger Waters solo.
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: November 10 2020 at 12:32
Cristi wrote:
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
Cristi wrote:
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
someone_else wrote:
It is a decent album, even though the first 31 minutes are a somewhat dragging waltz. Radio KAOS is slightly better, but Amused to Death is obviously his best work. I find his last album also rather enjoyable.
Overall, I'd choose In the Flesh (2000) as my favourite Roger Waters album.
Yes, it's a live album and it's one of the best concerts I've ever seen, having watched it again this afternoon.
I wasn't sure if I'm still allowed to post the full concert here, so I've provided the YouTube link instead.
[/QUOTE]
most of that live album is Pink Floyd, so I wouldn't mention it as relevant Roger Waters solo.
[/QUOTE]
That's true, although the concert doesn't feature any other members of Pink Floyd in the flesh.
[/QUOTE]
it's just Roger(and his band) doing Floyd and some of his solo work, but PF music dominates.
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: November 10 2020 at 13:17
moshkito wrote:
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
...
Roger Waters - Give Birth to a Smile , from the soundtrack album, Music from the Mind & Body (1970), featuring Ron Geesin & the other three members of Pink Floyd on this final song from the album.
...
Hi,
Disgraceful ... that you would ignore the best song in there ... "Our Song" ... making all the others sound silly and shmoozy!
Are you serious!?? "Our Song" is just a collection of silly noises - sounding like someone with indigestion - and not really a song at all.
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: November 10 2020 at 15:16
Cristi wrote:
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
Cristi wrote:
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
someone_else wrote:
It is a decent album, even though the first 31 minutes are a somewhat dragging waltz. Radio KAOS is slightly better, but Amused to Death is obviously his best work. I find his last album also rather enjoyable.
Overall, I'd choose In the Flesh (2000) as my favourite Roger Waters album.
Yes, it's a live album and it's one of the best concerts I've ever seen, having watched it again this afternoon.
I wasn't sure if I'm still allowed to post the full concert here, so I've provided the YouTube link instead.
most of that live album is Pink Floyd, so I wouldn't mention it as relevant Roger Waters solo.
I don't know about you, but I've always considered The Wall and The Final Cut to be Roger Waters solo projects anyway, and not collaborative Pink Floyd albums.
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: November 10 2020 at 15:27
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
Cristi wrote:
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
Cristi wrote:
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
someone_else wrote:
It is a decent album, even though the first 31 minutes are a somewhat dragging waltz. Radio KAOS is slightly better, but Amused to Death is obviously his best work. I find his last album also rather enjoyable.
Overall, I'd choose In the Flesh (2000) as my favourite Roger Waters album.
Yes, it's a live album and it's one of the best concerts I've ever seen, having watched it again this afternoon.
I wasn't sure if I'm still allowed to post the full concert here, so I've provided the YouTube link instead.
most of that live album is Pink Floyd, so I wouldn't mention it as relevant Roger Waters solo.
I don't know about you, but I've always considered The Wall and The Final Cut to be Roger Waters solo projects anyway, and not collaborative Pink Floyd albums.
even on the Wall, Gilmour and Ezrin arranged a few things.
Waters has got 4 good albums, you can't just disregard them like that...
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: November 10 2020 at 15:34
Ronstein wrote:
SteveG wrote:
Let me know when you actually get to the Pros And Cons album.
Which was, apparently, going to a Pink Floyd album until it all went pear-shaped.
'Amused to Death' is head and shoulders above anything else in his solo canon, I reckon.
The piece of work which became Pros and Cons was presented to the rest of the band alongside demos of The Wall.
The latter was preferred over the former.
Waters then went on to overwhelmingly make The Final Cut and then only recorded Pros and Cons as a solo piece after he left Floyd.
Pros and Cons was never going to be a Floyd album once The Wall was decided upon as the album in 1979.
------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: November 10 2020 at 15:56
Cristi wrote:
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
Cristi wrote:
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
Cristi wrote:
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
someone_else wrote:
It is a decent album, even though the first 31 minutes are a somewhat dragging waltz. Radio KAOS is slightly better, but Amused to Death is obviously his best work. I find his last album also rather enjoyable.
Overall, I'd choose In the Flesh (2000) as my favourite Roger Waters album.
Yes, it's a live album and it's one of the best concerts I've ever seen, having watched it again this afternoon.
I wasn't sure if I'm still allowed to post the full concert here, so I've provided the YouTube link instead.
most of that live album is Pink Floyd, so I wouldn't mention it as relevant Roger Waters solo.
I don't know about you, but I've always considered The Wall and The Final Cut to be Roger Waters solo projects anyway, and not collaborative Pink Floyd albums.
even on the Wall, Gilmour and Ezrin arranged a few things.
Waters has got 4 good albums, you can't just disregard them like that...
How am I disregarding those four good Roger Waters albums?
If I was disregarding them, then I wouldn't have posted this thread.
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: November 10 2020 at 16:05
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
Cristi wrote:
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
Cristi wrote:
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
Cristi wrote:
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
someone_else wrote:
It is a decent album, even though the first 31 minutes are a somewhat dragging waltz. Radio KAOS is slightly better, but Amused to Death is obviously his best work. I find his last album also rather enjoyable.
Overall, I'd choose In the Flesh (2000) as my favourite Roger Waters album.
Yes, it's a live album and it's one of the best concerts I've ever seen, having watched it again this afternoon.
I wasn't sure if I'm still allowed to post the full concert here, so I've provided the YouTube link instead.
most of that live album is Pink Floyd, so I wouldn't mention it as relevant Roger Waters solo.
I don't know about you, but I've always considered The Wall and The Final Cut to be Roger Waters solo projects anyway, and not collaborative Pink Floyd albums.
even on the Wall, Gilmour and Ezrin arranged a few things.
Waters has got 4 good albums, you can't just disregard them like that...
How am I disregarding those four good Roger Waters albums?
If I was disregarding them, then I wouldn't have posted this thread.
you just said that a live album he did containing mostly Floyd material is your favorite. Not Pros & Cons, not Amused to Death, the live album is your favorite, which makes no sense to me, but anyway...
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: November 10 2020 at 16:28
^ Yes, In the Flesh is my favourite Roger Waters album overall, but if I was to pick a favourite studio album, then it would be The Pros & Cons of Hitch Hiking.
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: November 10 2020 at 17:20
The best thing about the pros and cons of hitchhiking is the album cover(original).
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 10 2020 at 21:12
suitkees wrote:
"Is This the World We Really Want" has passed under my radar, so it is one yet to explore...
...I'm less impressed by his (or PFs) soundtrack work.
Same for me, and I will listen to the new album as soon as I can.
The soundtracks are a different story ... in many ways, it was some folks simply trying to make use of the music, but Antonioni going around saying "too sad ... too sad", it meant it was a mistake. Doing two films with Barbet Schroeder was right, specially as the first film "MORE", was very well done and thought out, using the music from the girl's cassette player instead of an imaginary soundtrack for the girl's mind, something that would hurt the "tripping" feel in the movie and how it was done ... it was her story ... and we felt it inside and out, so to speak ... and this is what she heard and tripped to, and that makes it a very well done and thought out idea for a film, something that we are too silly about ... we're stuck on the "imagery" of the Hollywood ideal that the music is just some tapestry to make the film prettier and the music, quite often has nothing to do with the film itself ... except that it makes us believe this moment is sad and that moment is funny and weird!
That's crap film making, and cheap and it ruined many films, because the director was not very good about using the music, which was an addon, and not a cohesive and proper part of the design and conception of the film! It was not "organic", as it were.
Both Zabriskie Point and The Valley suffered from having been taken from the director's hands and the music horribly chosen and used and not meaning anything more than just ... a typical (and eventual) MTV crap ... ZP went through so many hands and changes that its original story got changed and corrupted into a style that is not Antonioni, and he wanted his name removed from the film. TV is a film, whose continuity and story does not make a whole lot of sense, and the music appears misused except for a couple of moments. But by the end of the film, it's hard to not think it was a mess ... and a gross misuse of some of the greatest actors in the French Theater and film at the time, alongside a couple of folks from the best of the English theater.
The only way, that PF's music would be infused and properly used, was in THE WALL, although it getting cut up and the material taken out somewhere else broke the original story, and created some confusion along the way ... TW is weaker without the original material about WW2 and the album labelled as TFC is even weaker without the whole story around it. But TW, and its power and appeal in the movie, was outstanding and is probably one of the best "soundtracks" every created and used ... mostly because the majority of the music was "true" to the story and a part of it!
If you look at the other 2 soundtracks as just "songs", they will be terribly disappointed ... and deservedly so. PF had no control of it at all! And Barbet Schroeder was probably too drunk trying to do TV to be able to stand up and make his film ... but there are some good things in it, and one of them is the cinematographer, who went on to win an Oscar for his work, and it is pretty! In many ways, this film is more about the cinematographer than it is about Barbet's story.
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: November 11 2020 at 00:51
lazland wrote:
The piece of work which became Pros and Cons was presented to the rest of the band alongside demos of The Wall.
The latter was preferred over the former.
There is a scene near the end of the film in which Pink sings some lines from the final track of Pros and Cons (5:11 AM).
-------------
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: November 11 2020 at 02:52
Mind & Body: ***
Final Cut: ***.5 (I'll make a few happy people here )
Pros & Cons: ***
KAOS: *** (too bad of the 80's production, though)
Amused: ****
Ca Ira: ***
ITF: ***.5
Really Want: ****
Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: November 11 2020 at 03:56
@moshkito: Yes, good - and elaborate - points regarding the PF soundtracks. I agree with most (if not all) of what you say, especially also regarding The Wall. This one stands out, also because film and music were so much conceived together. And the music remains good even when it stands alone, although I also regret they didn't keep everything for the album.
As a cinema lover, and speaking in general terms and not only about PF, I think that there are not many soundtracks that remain as powerful and enjoyable without the film. But that's another discussion.
Sean Trane wrote:
Final Cut: ***.5 (I'll make a few happy people here )
I'm happy with that (and who cares?) - and your rating would be mine. This one is very close, in style and quality, to the Pros and Cons (more than to everything else PF, with The Wall of course coming not far beyond in being more Waters than PF...).
-------------
The razamataz is a pain in the bum
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: November 11 2020 at 04:32
These are my ratings for all of Roger Waters' albums:-
1970: Music from the Body (with Ron Geesin)
1979: The Wall (with Pink Floyd)
1983: The Final Cut (with Pink Floyd)
1984: The Pros & Cons of Hitch Hiking
1986: When the Wind Blows (with Various Artists)
1987: Radio K.A.O.S.
1990: The Wall - Live in Berlin
1992: Amused to Death
2000: In the Flesh - Live
2010: The Wall - Live
2017: Is This the Life We Really Want?
2020: Us + Them
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: November 11 2020 at 04:43
5 stars for The Wall in Berlin
I sometimes disagree with album ratings, or reviews, but Live in Berlin got 2.25 overall here on PA and I agree.
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: November 11 2020 at 04:49
Cristi wrote:
5 stars for The Wall in Berlin
I sometimes disagree with album ratings, or reviews, but Live in Berlin got 2.25 overall here on PA and I agree.
That's fair enough. We're all entitled to our opinions.
Us + Them (2020) - which I'm watching right now - is another strong contender for best Roger Waters album, and again, it features mainly Pink Floyd songs.
Roger Waters and Pink Floyd are inextricably intertwined. It's hard to separate one from the other, when Roger Waters' solo albums also sound like Pink Floyd albums.
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: November 11 2020 at 05:22
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
Cristi wrote:
5 stars for The Wall in Berlin
I sometimes disagree with album ratings, or reviews, but Live in Berlin got 2.25 overall here on PA and I agree.
That's fair enough. We're all entitled to our opinions.
Us + Them (2020) - which I'm watching right now - is another strong contender for best Roger Waters album, and again, it features Pink Floyd songs.
Roger Waters and Pink Floyd are inextricably intertwined. It's hard to separate one from the other, when Roger Waters' solo albums also sound like Pink Floyd albums.
why are you winking at me when you say that " We're all entitled to our opinions." it kinda ruins what you just said.
Playing Floyd brings in the money, that's why both Gilmour and Waters play Floyd live. That's the demand, too.
It's pretty cringy to see Waters doing Floyd as 5 stars favorites. In a thread about Roger waters solo of all places. Makes no sense.
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: November 11 2020 at 05:45
^ Well, it makes perfect sense to me, and nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more, a nod's as good as a wink to a blind horse. Know what I mean?
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: November 12 2020 at 10:56
Pros and Cons got a combined rating of 3.06 here...not that impressive.
His highest one is Amused To Death at 3.93 (Stravinsky , 2 votes, has 4.5...someone is obviously a misguided fan? )
I like Amused To Death ,for the most part, even though he stole the idea from Neil Postman's book :
'Amusing_Ourselves_to_Death', Mr Postman on Waters, "He so elevated my prestige among undergraduates that I am hardly in a position to repudiate him or his kind of music. Nor do I have the inclination for any other reason. Nonetheless, the level of sensibility required to appreciate the music of Roger Waters is both different and lower than what is required to appreciate, let us say, a Chopin étude."
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: November 12 2020 at 13:29
Indeed his pros are being able to do whatever he wants without having to please the rest of the band, or the rest of the band wanting to put their own stuff as well... but that's the con too. He doesn't get the input about how good something is, nor the restraint if something is not up to standard, nor has the possibility of receiving extra quality material to improve the albums. Even on the arrangement department... the songs may still be his, but the arrangements to those same songs done by Gilmour on guitars or Wright on keys could significantly improve at least some of the songs. About half of Amused to Death (my favourite solo album by Waters) would surely have benefited a lot by having had them in the band... another half of the album is just perfect and might not have fitted so well with them. And just about all of Is this the Life we Really Want would surely have worked so much better if it had been done with Pink Floyd... I mean, it sounds like a copy of Pink Floyd music, but without Gilmour's guitars, nor Wrights ambient parts, nor the long instrumental segments that would make the difference between an OK album and a fantastic album.
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: November 12 2020 at 13:54
Dellinger wrote:
Indeed his pros are being able to do whatever he wants without having to please the rest of the band, or the rest of the band wanting to put their own stuff as well... but that's the con too. He doesn't get the input about how good something is, nor the restraint if something is not up to standard, nor has the possibility of receiving extra quality material to improve the albums. Even on the arrangement department... the songs may still be his, but the arrangements to those same songs done by Gilmour on guitars or Wright on keys could significantly improve at least some of the songs. About half of Amused to Death (my favourite solo album by Waters) would surely have benefited a lot by having had them in the band... another half of the album is just perfect and might not have fitted so well with them. And just about all of Is this the Life we Really Want would surely have worked so much better if it had been done with Pink Floyd... I mean, it sounds like a copy of Pink Floyd music, but without Gilmour's guitars, nor Wrights ambient parts, nor the long instrumental segments that would make the difference between an OK album and a fantastic album.
It's like I was saying to Cristi earlier: the best Roger Waters' albums are those where he's playing the music of Pink Floyd, such as:- "The Wall = Live in Berlin" (1990); "In the Flesh - Live" (2000); and "Us + Them" (2020)
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: November 12 2020 at 14:02
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
Dellinger wrote:
Indeed his pros are being able to do whatever he wants without having to please the rest of the band, or the rest of the band wanting to put their own stuff as well... but that's the con too. He doesn't get the input about how good something is, nor the restraint if something is not up to standard, nor has the possibility of receiving extra quality material to improve the albums. Even on the arrangement department... the songs may still be his, but the arrangements to those same songs done by Gilmour on guitars or Wright on keys could significantly improve at least some of the songs. About half of Amused to Death (my favourite solo album by Waters) would surely have benefited a lot by having had them in the band... another half of the album is just perfect and might not have fitted so well with them. And just about all of Is this the Life we Really Want would surely have worked so much better if it had been done with Pink Floyd... I mean, it sounds like a copy of Pink Floyd music, but without Gilmour's guitars, nor Wrights ambient parts, nor the long instrumental segments that would make the difference between an OK album and a fantastic album.
It's like I was saying to Cristi earlier: the best Roger Waters' albums are those where he's playing the music of Pink Floyd, such as:- "The Wall = Live in Berlin" (1990); "In the Flesh - Live" (2000); and "Us + Them" (2020)
you missed the point I was trying to make it seems.
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: November 12 2020 at 14:04
^ What's New!?
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: November 13 2020 at 12:57
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
Dellinger wrote:
Indeed his pros are being able to do whatever he wants without having to please the rest of the band, or the rest of the band wanting to put their own stuff as well... but that's the con too. He doesn't get the input about how good something is, nor the restraint if something is not up to standard, nor has the possibility of receiving extra quality material to improve the albums. Even on the arrangement department... the songs may still be his, but the arrangements to those same songs done by Gilmour on guitars or Wright on keys could significantly improve at least some of the songs. About half of Amused to Death (my favourite solo album by Waters) would surely have benefited a lot by having had them in the band... another half of the album is just perfect and might not have fitted so well with them. And just about all of Is this the Life we Really Want would surely have worked so much better if it had been done with Pink Floyd... I mean, it sounds like a copy of Pink Floyd music, but without Gilmour's guitars, nor Wrights ambient parts, nor the long instrumental segments that would make the difference between an OK album and a fantastic album.
It's like I was saying to Cristi earlier: the best Roger Waters' albums are those where he's playing the music of Pink Floyd, such as:- "The Wall = Live in Berlin" (1990); "In the Flesh - Live" (2000); and "Us + Them" (2020)
Those live albums all have some wonderful versions of Floyd songs... and some other versions in which he rather ruins them... or at least falls a bit short. It took me years of listening to Floyd, but now I can really tell in the longer songs with important guitar roles that it's not Gilmour the one playing, and as subtle as the difference might be, it's enough to make those notably inferior. And Gilmour's vocals are often missed too (actually, Waters vocals are also often missed, since he just couldn't sing as he once did). I still need to get that Us + Them album... I'm mostly interested in how he played his own new songs, hoping he might have added a bit to make them more interesting.
Posted By: tigerfeet
Date Posted: December 30 2020 at 20:44
I used to be a Roger Waters fanatic! That was until i got married and my wife was a Gilmour fanatic. I can tell you it almost ruined our relationship Now many years later we laugh at how we used to get heated about who was more important to Pink Floyd, Waters or Gilmour.
However, this thread is about the Pros and Cons of Going Solo. In my opinion PF had become compromised musically, and I am sure they were all desperate to get away from each other and release solo albums.
So, in regards to Pros of Going Solo for Roger, I think that he realized that he could write songs until the cows came home. His problem was that he needed a good guitarist to play guitar/solos. This is why his decision to record as a solo artist was a good decision.
When Pros and Cons was released I was so excited. I had been a Roger fan for years. My first instrument was Bass guitar and I thought that his way of playing was exact and with purpose and creativity. I still rate him as one of the best bass guitarists of all time.
He had decided to get Eric Clapton on board who at that time was suffering from poorly received gigs after having being in rehab a few years earlier. Clapton had become bored and non creative and in my opinion he could finally let loose on Pros and Cons and it gave him a new found lease of life. It really does come out from Clapton and such sweet guitar is all over the Pros and Cons album. He made the album for me, although i did enjoy the album cover
------------- I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you. Robin Williams.
Posted By: tigerfeet
Date Posted: December 30 2020 at 21:03
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
The best thing about the pros and cons of hitchhiking is the album cover(original).
Indeed. I was living in London at that time and there was quite a fuss about Roger's posters of the original album cover being plastered all over the Tube (Underground). I remember a lot of the posters were defaced and finally had to be taken down and replaced with the new censored version.
------------- I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you. Robin Williams.
Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: December 30 2020 at 23:22
Ronstein wrote:
SteveG wrote:
Let me know when you actually get to the Pros And Cons album.
Which was, apparently, going to a Pink Floyd album until it all went pear-shaped.
'Amused to Death' is head and shoulders above anything else in his solo canon, I reckon.
Head and shoulders above The Final Cut which is really a Roger Waters solo album.
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 01 2021 at 22:26
tigerfeet wrote:
I used to be a Roger Waters fanatic! That was until i got married and my wife was a Gilmour fanatic. I can tell you it almost ruined our relationship Now many years later we laugh at how we used to get heated about who was more important to Pink Floyd, Waters or Gilmour.
However, this thread is about the Pros and Cons of Going Solo. In my opinion PF had become compromised musically, and I am sure they were all desperate to get away from each other and release solo albums.
So, in regards to Pros of Going Solo for Roger, I think that he realized that he could write songs until the cows came home. His problem was that he needed a good guitarist to play guitar/solos. This is why his decision to record as a solo artist was a good decision.
When Pros and Cons was released I was so excited. I had been a Roger fan for years. My first instrument was Bass guitar and I thought that his way of playing was exact and with purpose and creativity. I still rate him as one of the best bass guitarists of all time.
He had decided to get Eric Clapton on board who at that time was suffering from poorly received gigs after having being in rehab a few years earlier. Clapton had become bored and non creative and in my opinion he could finally let loose on Pros and Cons and it gave him a new found lease of life. It really does come out from Clapton and such sweet guitar is all over the Pros and Cons album. He made the album for me, although i did enjoy the album cover
I really wish Roger had recordings so that he could release a live album from this tour. Clapton might be one of the few guitar players that could really do justice to Gilmour's original solos. I remember hearing some bootleg songs at some point, all with rather poor quality, but I particularly remember a great version of Nobody Home, which is not one of my favourite songs from Floyd, actually, but he did add some wonderful solo that really made the song better. I actually got to hear a version of Wish you were Here with Clapton himself singing it (how I wish I could get a good quality version of that).
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: January 04 2021 at 06:12
Roger Waters' Discography & Videography
1970: Roger Waters & Ron Geesin - Music from the Body - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzBFgnyNqkU4_SkT0r5fX3jp" rel="nofollow - 1979: Pink Floyd - The Wall - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nE3dmeYl_9Jgv2CT0aqufkDcyB6BBMcGM" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nE3dmeYl_9Jgv2CT0aqufkDcyB6BBMcGM
1983: Pink Floyd - The Final Cut - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFEDE25F4A684239E" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFEDE25F4A684239E
1984: Roger Waters - The Pros & Cons of Hitch Hiking - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzCSxYXG4-UGwf6xf5D0Ic0B" rel="nofollow - 1986: Roger Waters - When the Wind Blows (soundtrack) - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzBQz_2la6-iVC_xvhYzcwXC" rel="nofollow - 1987: Radio Waters - Radio K.A.O.S. - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzDd-pCqs48b5fXYeRE-CTyp" rel="nofollow - 1990: Roger Waters - The Wall - Live in Berlin - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzCEJqdCG4pOSGquuasY0Nao" rel="nofollow - 1992: Roger Waters - Amused to Death - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzDLMqo_y4kLs_rppAZeLxML" rel="nofollow - 2000: Roger Waters - In the Flesh - Live - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzBqNIjL2ow_fGPDpwFasTL0" rel="nofollow - 2005: Roger Waters - Ca Ira - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lN1_1cC7SPRFct9GprFWnNvLDspc7M214" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lN1_1cC7SPRFct9GprFWnNvLDspc7M214
2010: Roger Waters - The Wall - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzDf96-4C_NiubT6tYYWe31" rel="nofollow - 2017: Roger Waters - Is This the Life We Really Want - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzA0ryrVBckGqBgGLylzzF5d" rel="nofollow - 2020: Roger Waters - Us + Them - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf-Mb-ADrb0" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf-Mb-ADrb0
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: March 12 2023 at 01:58
Pink Floyd Niagara performing Another Brick in the Wall
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: March 12 2023 at 03:26
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
Roger Waters' Discography & Videography
1970: Roger Waters - Music from the Body (with Ron Geesin) - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzBFgnyNqkU4_SkT0r5fX3jp" rel="nofollow - 1979: Pink Floyd - The Wall - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nE3dmeYl_9Jgv2CT0aqufkDcyB6BBMcGM" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nE3dmeYl_9Jgv2CT0aqufkDcyB6BBMcGM
1983: Pink Floyd - The Final Cut - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFEDE25F4A684239E" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFEDE25F4A684239E
1984: Roger Waters - The Pros & Cons of Hitch Hiking - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzCSxYXG4-UGwf6xf5D0Ic0B" rel="nofollow - 1986: Roger Waters - When the Wind Blows (soundtrack) - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzBQz_2la6-iVC_xvhYzcwXC" rel="nofollow - 1987: Radio Waters - Radio K.A.O.S. - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzDd-pCqs48b5fXYeRE-CTyp" rel="nofollow - 1990: Roger Waters - The Wall - Live in Berlin - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzCEJqdCG4pOSGquuasY0Nao" rel="nofollow - 1992: Roger Waters Amused to Death - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzDLMqo_y4kLs_rppAZeLxML" rel="nofollow - 2000: Roger Waters - In the Flesh - Live - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzBqNIjL2ow_fGPDpwFasTL0" rel="nofollow - 2010: Roger Waters - The Wall - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzDf96-4C_NiubT6tYYWe31" rel="nofollow - 2017: Roger Waters - Is This the Life We Really Want - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzA0ryrVBckGqBgGLylzzF5d" rel="nofollow - 2020: Roger Waters - Us + Them - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzA2Zc9tq6ZskT3S5bkDsGaL" rel="nofollow -
http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=9393
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: March 12 2023 at 03:49
^ Better late than never with the 38-video playlist for Roger Waters' opera. Thanks for reminding me.
2005: Roger Waters - Ca Ira - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lN1_1cC7SPRFct9GprFWnNvLDspc7M214" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lN1_1cC7SPRFct9GprFWnNvLDspc7M214
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: March 22 2023 at 05:06
Never mind the politics, here's the music.... The second-best song from The Wall album, given a heartrendingly beautiful reworking by Roger Waters in 2022.
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: March 22 2023 at 09:35
A scene from Alan Parker's The Wall, starring Bob Geldof as the leader of a far-right neo-Nazi movement. Is Roger Waters anti-Semitic? No comment.
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: March 22 2023 at 11:29
I consider Waters a top ten Rock composer. Up there with Dylan, Bowie, and Neil Young.
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 22 2023 at 12:00
Regardless of its execution, I think that The Pros And Cons was a brilliant concept. And I think it was Waters last brilliant concept. The rest has been beating a dead horse. The same social topics and commentary, but with a different famous guitarist. Too bad he lost his muse.
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: March 22 2023 at 14:31
I guess, mr. RW gets quite another treatment in this thread than in the other. I've tried to make it fair.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: March 22 2023 at 14:48
David_D wrote:
I guess, mr. RW gets quite another treatment in this thread than in the other. I've tried to make it fair.
Agreed. It's One of the Few places where RW gets fair treatment, bearing in mind this thread is all about the music with just a light sprinkling of politics.
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: March 22 2023 at 15:13
SteveG wrote:
Regardless of its execution, I think that The Pros And Cons was a brilliant concept. And I think it was Waters last brilliant concept. The rest has been beating a dead horse. The same social topics and commentary, but with a different famous guitarist. Too bad he lost his muse.
For sure, Pros and Cons was a brilliant concept. Effects me emotionally every time I experience it.
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: March 23 2023 at 03:20
Dylan, Bowie, Neil Young....sorry, but to me, they're way behind Waters.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: March 23 2023 at 11:48
David_D wrote:
Dylan, Bowie, Neil Young....sorry, but to me, they're way behind Waters.
Yes, whereas Roger Waters' political views are often met by The Wall of indifference, he's One of the Few artists whose music will live on forever in The Endless River of time, long after Roger's gone to that Great Gig in the Sky.
1983: Pink Floyd - The Final Cut - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFEDE25F4A684239E" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFEDE25F4A684239E
Roger Waters - Two Suns in the Sunset: The final and best song from The Final Cut album, given a dramatic reworking here for the 2020 Us + Them tour.
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: March 23 2023 at 11:55
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
....Roger Waters....., he's One of the Few artists whose music will live on forever in The Endless River of time, long after Roger's gone to that Great Gig in the Sky.
very poetic
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: March 23 2023 at 12:26
As always Pauls ratings are at odds with everyone else and the real nature of things..
PA ratings-
Waters and Geesin 2.83
Pros and Cons 3.07
Radio Kaos 2.97
Amused To Death 3.93
Ca IRA 3.33
Is This the LIfe 3.73
Stravinskys Soldiers Tale 3.09
Final Cut (listed as a Floyd lp) 3.19
There are several lps by Dylan ,Bowie, and Young I would play and own over anything solo by Waters....
now Pink Floyd early lps would be a different matter. Could care less about his politics ..just talking the music here.
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: March 23 2023 at 12:49
dr wu23 wrote:
As always Pauls ratings are at odds with everyone else and the real nature of things..
PA ratings-
Waters and Geesin 2.83
Pros and Cons 3.07
Radio Kaos 2.97
Amused To Death 3.93
Ca IRA 3.33
Is This the LIfe 3.73
Stravinskys Soldiers Tale 3.09
Final Cut (listed as a Floyd lp) 3.19
There are several lps by Dylan ,Bowie, and Young I would play and own over anything solo by Waters....
now Pink Floyd early lps would be a different matter. Could care less about his politics ..just talking the music here.
The Times They Are a-Changing..... There was a time not so long ago when I would've preferred Bob Dylan over Roger Waters, but that was before I listened to all of Roger Waters' solo albums on ProgArchives, especially his amazing 5-star Live performances, just like the one below - one of my all-time favourite Prog_Rock concerts.
2020: Roger Waters - Us + Them - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf-Mb-ADrb0" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf-Mb-ADrb0
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 23 2023 at 12:52
suitkees wrote:
@moshkito: Yes, good - and elaborate - points regarding the PF soundtracks. I agree with most (if not all) of what you say, especially also regarding The Wall. This one stands out, also because film and music were so much conceived together. And the music remains good even when it stands alone, although I also regret they didn't keep everything for the album.
...
Hi,
In my book, TW is actually a continuation of something that PF had started in 1971 or so, when they were playing sound vignettes in between songs, and my thoughts always were that these were there so the synthesizers (for example) could be setup correctly for the next piece. It's hard to say, and both Roger and Dave will not say anything about it, because they will feel that their talent in composition, specially in TW is lessened. In my mind, their visuals CAME ALIVE with TW, and were kinda started with DSOTM and they were made more important in the next two albums and tours, what with a big pinky loose around London! And then in the stadiums, where fans (at Anaheim in LA) were fighting for pieces of the pig when it exploded, and Roger got mad (it's on the bootlegs loud and clear!).
But I agree, the conception of the film with the music, was exceptional and the story was nice, although incomplete ... how Vera Lynn is mentioned and then the stuff that shows in TFC appears, ought to explain that TW was cut up ... and some of the visuals that showed up in TFC on TV were in the original version of TW ... which was almost 20 minutes longer. I think the record company wanted to make sure all of it fit in 2 LP's and 4 sides ... thus the cutting, since a triple album would still be missing what would be 20 minutes, and probably too much for the FM radio at the time in America.
It was a case, for me, of the visuals they used at the start, right after Syd, and how they ended up creating a story they could put together ... which became TW. But it had started with DSOTM and then WYWH and then finally ANIMALS.
As for the PROS AND CONS album, it's not one I listen to much anymore. I thought that EC was a bad match for the album, and someone like Jeff Beck would have been considerably better and he showed it later in AMUSED TO DEATH. EC was too much into the "blues" at that time to be able to get out of them and help make the album better and much more within what RW, or even PF, had done before.
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: March 23 2023 at 13:14
moshkito wrote:
suitkees wrote:
@moshkito: Yes, good - and elaborate - points regarding the PF soundtracks. I agree with most (if not all) of what you say, especially also regarding The Wall. This one stands out, also because film and music were so much conceived together. And the music remains good even when it stands alone, although I also regret they didn't keep everything for the album.
...
As for the PROS AND CONS album, it's not one I listen to much anymore. I thought that EC was a bad match for the album, and someone like Jeff Beck would have been considerably better and he showed it later in AMUSED TO DEATH. EC was too much into the "blues" at that time to be able to get out of them and help make the album better and much more within what RW, or even PF, had done before.
1984: Roger Waters - The Pros & Cons of Hitch Hiking - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzCSxYXG4-UGwf6xf5D0Ic0B" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzCSxYXG4-UGwf6xf5D0Ic0B
The Pros and Cons of Hitch-Hiking still remains my favourite Roger Waters studio album, and here's one of the reasons why...
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: March 23 2023 at 13:32
The only RW solo album I currently have is Pros and Cons. I'm rather lukewarm about it though. There's a few good moments but overall I find it rather boring.
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: March 23 2023 at 13:44
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
The only RW solo album I currently have is Pros and Cons. I'm rather lukewarm about it though. There's a few good moments but overall I find it rather boring.
1984: Roger Waters - The Pros & Cons of Hitch Hiking - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzCSxYXG4-UGwf6xf5D0Ic0B" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzCSxYXG4-UGwf6xf5D0Ic0B
I still rate Roger's Pros & Cons album higher than Pink Floyd's first seven albums, although that maybe has something to do with Linzi Drew hitching a ride on the album cover.
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: March 23 2023 at 15:06
That was an actual woman? I thought it was just a drawing of a naked blonde chick. ;)
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: March 23 2023 at 15:27
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
That was an actual woman? I thought it was just a drawing of a naked blonde chick. ;)
Yes, Penthouse editor and former Page 3 girl Linzi Drew is one of England's best-known glamour models and she once had a relationship with adult-film actor Ben Dover (not his real name).
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: March 24 2023 at 06:57
I'm curious about your moniker, Cindy.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: March 24 2023 at 08:30
dr wu23 wrote:
As always Pauls ratings are at odds with everyone else and the real nature of things..
PA ratings-
Waters and Geesin 2.83
Pros and Cons 3.07
Radio Kaos 2.97
Amused To Death 3.93
Ca IRA 3.33
Is This the LIfe 3.73
Stravinskys Soldiers Tale 3.09
Final Cut (listed as a Floyd lp) 3.19
There are several lps by Dylan ,Bowie, and Young I would play and own over anything solo by Waters....
now Pink Floyd early lps would be a different matter. Could care less about his politics ..just talking the music here.
Perhaps. However, Collage's 2022 album "Over And Out" was not in the Collaborator top 200 albums. Yet it's #5 in PA ratings...with the most votes of any band in the PA's 2022 top ten. Does that mean the Collaborator's top 2022 album list is at odds with everyone else and the real nature of things?
PA rating
Nah, just the way of things. I wholeheartedly agree with your Dylan, Bowie, and Young opinion.
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: March 24 2023 at 10:05
omphaloskepsis wrote:
Nah, just the way of things.
I understand.
I really liked your last post in the other RW thread, I'll even say, it's one of the very best there.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: March 24 2023 at 10:14
omphaloskepsis wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
As always Pauls ratings are at odds with everyone else and the real nature of things..
PA ratings-
Waters and Geesin 2.83
Pros and Cons 3.07
Radio Kaos 2.97
Amused To Death 3.93
Ca IRA 3.33
Is This the LIfe 3.73
Stravinskys Soldiers Tale 3.09
Final Cut (listed as a Floyd lp) 3.19
There are several lps by Dylan ,Bowie, and Young I would play and own over anything solo by Waters....
now Pink Floyd early lps would be a different matter. Could care less about his politics ..just talking the music here.
Perhaps. However, Collage's 2022 album "Over And Out" was not in the Collaborator top 200 albums. Yet it's #5 in PA ratings...with the most votes of any band in the PA's 2022 top ten. Does that mean the Collaborator's top 2022 album list is at odds with everyone else and the real nature of things?
PA rating
Nah, just the way of things. I wholeheartedly agree with your Dylan, Bowie, and Young opinion.
Well..there are always exceptions and that must be one of them.....funny thing that several lps are rated higher than that Collage lp yet they are ranked lower on the 200 list,...how does that work? And I was referring more to Paul's habit of overating everything he likes. Collabs are more than one person and certainly know prog music better than Paul.....no offense intended Paul.
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: March 24 2023 at 10:34
^ No offence taken. I naturally overrate the albums I like and underrate the albums I dislike. After all, no one's ever going to criticise me for overrating King Crimson, Van der Graaf Generator or Gentle Giant's albums. Right now, I'm busy listening to and overrating all five of Comedy of Errors' excellent albums, when it'd be a Shakespearean tragedy to give them any less than five stars.
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: March 24 2023 at 11:55
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
^ No offence taken. I naturally overrate the albums I like and underrate the albums I dislike. After all, no one's ever going to criticise me for overrating King Crimson, Van der Graaf Generator or Gentle Giant's albums. Right now, I'm busy listening to and overrating all five of Comedy of Errors' excellent albums, when it'd be a Shakespearean tragedy to give them any less than five stars.
Progarchives, perchance you wonder at Paul?
But wonder on till you feel nothing at all. Paul's ratings make truth plain.
This Comedy of Errors' album is so beyond excellence that it make reality insane!
And King Crimson albums are not underrated...thus sayeth Paul.
Gentile Giant! Why dust thou bruise me with your medieval delivery?
And Van der Graaf Generator's electricity schizophrenically from your hollow metal skull
I've listened to you and listened to you! But I hear nothing at all.
Berated, what Paul says is underrated even though it's all for show
...thus sayeth Paul. And away we doth go!
...all's well that ends well...especially if your a sperm whale.
and Paul makes me smile...makes it all worth while.
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: March 24 2023 at 14:43
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
^ No offence taken. I naturally overrate the albums I like and underrate the albums I dislike. After all, no one's ever going to criticise me for overrating King Crimson, Van der Graaf Generator or Gentle Giant's albums. Right now, I'm busy listening to and overrating all five of Comedy of Errors' excellent albums, when it'd be a Shakespearean tragedy to give them any less than five stars.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: March 24 2023 at 14:46
omphaloskepsis wrote:
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
^ No offence taken. I naturally overrate the albums I like and underrate the albums I dislike. After all, no one's ever going to criticise me for overrating King Crimson, Van der Graaf Generator or Gentle Giant's albums. Right now, I'm busy listening to and overrating all five of Comedy of Errors' excellent albums, when it'd be a Shakespearean tragedy to give them any less than five stars.
Progarchives, perchance you wonder at Paul?
But wonder on till you feel nothing at all. Paul's ratings make truth plain.
This Comedy of Errors' album is so beyond excellence that it make reality insane!
And King Crimson albums are not underrated...thus sayeth Paul.
Gentile Giant! Why dust thou bruise me with your medieval delivery?
And Van der Graaf Generator's electricity schizophrenically from your hollow metal skull
I've listened to you and listened to you! But I hear nothing at all.
Berated, what Paul says is underrated even though it's all for show
...thus sayeth Paul. And away we doth go!
...all's well that ends well...especially if your a sperm whale.
and Paul makes me smile...makes it all worth while.
Wow!
Have you seen https://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=129673" rel="nofollow - Poetic Pieces for the Mind and Spirit ?
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: March 24 2023 at 16:47
^ May I quote this poem of yours, Cindy, in the thread I mentioned?
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: March 24 2023 at 20:21
^Sure
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: March 25 2023 at 04:06
David_D wrote:
I really liked your last post in the other RW thread, I'll even say, it's one of the very best there.
and very bravely too, Cindy
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: March 25 2023 at 04:07
omphaloskepsis wrote:
^Sure
thanks
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: March 25 2023 at 12:03
omphaloskepsis wrote:
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
^ No offence taken. I naturally overrate the albums I like and underrate the albums I dislike. After all, no one's ever going to criticise me for overrating King Crimson, Van der Graaf Generator or Gentle Giant's albums. Right now, I'm busy listening to and overrating all five of Comedy of Errors' excellent albums, when it'd be a Shakespearean tragedy to give them any less than five stars.
Progarchives, perchance you wonder at Paul?
But wonder on till you feel nothing at all. Paul's ratings make truth plain.
This Comedy of Errors' album is so beyond excellence that it make reality insane!
And King Crimson albums are not underrated...thus sayeth Paul.
Gentile Giant! Why dust thou bruise me with your medieval delivery?
And Van der Graaf Generator's electricity schizophrenically from your hollow metal skull
I've listened to you and listened to you! But I hear nothing at all.
Berated, what Paul says is underrated even though it's all for show
...thus sayeth Paul. And away we doth go!
...all's well that ends well...especially if your a sperm whale.
and Paul makes me smile...makes it all worth while.
I'm flattered! You're One of the Few who's ever written me a poem.
1983: Pink Floyd - The Final Cut - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFEDE25F4A684239E" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFEDE25F4A684239E
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: March 25 2023 at 17:26
1986: Roger Waters - When the Wind Blows (soundtrack) - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHcPTPk2B4oyVVKA-cNwccoKqQ6h7YGFZ" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHcPTPk2B4oyVVKA-cNwccoKqQ6h7YGFZ
When the Wind Blows An animated film about an elderly couple's ultimately doomed attempt to survive a nuclear holocaust. Not a happy families Disney movie then, but ideal subject matter for a gloomy Roger Waters soundtrack.
Folded Flags - the final cut from the album
Posted By: David_D
Date Posted: March 25 2023 at 17:39
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
I'm flattered! You're One of the Few who's ever written me a poem.
And it's quoted and supplied with some nice text in another thread too.
------------- quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: March 26 2023 at 02:24
1987: Roger Waters - Radio K.A.O.S. - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_koI10jUmXAaS4Dr1TJKWk8NW4l9cWbrv4" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_koI10jUmXAaS4Dr1TJKWk8NW4l9cWbrv4
Roger Waters' second solo studio album, based on a fictitious US radio station, where Roger does for American radio what Gerald Ratner did for jewellery sales.
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: March 27 2023 at 10:14
Posted By: ledzepfan63
Date Posted: May 05 2023 at 08:48
roger waters should retire
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: May 05 2023 at 08:58
ledzepfan63 wrote:
roger waters should retire
Well, Roger certainly deserves a comfortably numb retirement after such a long and distinguished career stretching back over half a century, when Pigs (on the wing) might fly before ever seeing him perform with Pink Floyd again. Welcome to the Roger Waters appreciation club.
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: May 28 2023 at 10:32
1987: Roger Waters - Radio K.A.O.S. - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_koI10jUmXAaS4Dr1TJKWk8NW4l9cWbrv4" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_koI10jUmXAaS4Dr1TJKWk8NW4l9cWbrv4
The second single from Roger Waters' second album, where Roger extols the virtues of Hollywood's Sunset Strip, although he'd rather be in Wales, apparently.
Posted By: bardberic
Date Posted: May 28 2023 at 23:35
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
ledzepfan63 wrote:
roger waters should retire
Well, Roger certainly deserves a comfortably numb retirement after such a long and distinguished career stretching back over half a century, when Pigs (on the wing) might fly before ever seeing him perform with Pink Floyd again. Welcome to the Roger Waters appreciation club.
Yeah, pigs will fly with Jewish symbols on it next to Communist symbols and Dollar Signs. Oh wait that was last week.
This week he flew a pig with a Jewish star on it in Berlin while he was dressed as a f**king Nazi with a picture of Anne Frank juxtaposed with a dead journalist who he believes the IDF killed, surrounded by banners in the style of the Third Reich. In BERLIN. Go to Hell, Waters! You'll find lots of Nazis, with whom to fit in there.
See, pigs have flown and he still hasn't performed with Pink Floyd. But he's still a motherf**ker.
A motherf**ker under criminal investigation by German authorities that is...
A geriatric, senile Varg Vikernes it seems.
Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: May 29 2023 at 02:02
^ You sound as intolerant and as indecent as RW...
-------------
The razamataz is a pain in the bum
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: May 29 2023 at 04:47
1987: Roger Waters - Radio K.A.O.S. - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_koI10jUmXAaS4Dr1TJKWk8NW4l9cWbrv4" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_koI10jUmXAaS4Dr1TJKWk8NW4l9cWbrv4
Roger Waters' second album ended with a simulated nuclear attack, but his record company told him it was far too bleak and depressing and needed a more upbeat ending. No kidding!!! So Roger came up with "The Tide is Turning" instead - the third single from the album. Okay, so it's not exactly the most uplifting of songs, but it's about as upbeat as you're going to get in Roger's gloomy view of the world.
Posted By: bardberic
Date Posted: May 29 2023 at 12:51
suitkees wrote:
^ You sound as intolerant and as indecent as RW...
What, so I'm supposed to tolerate his antisemitism and intolerance towards me and my people?
If he's going to proudly boycott me, then I'm not ashamed to boycott him. That's how these things work!
Call me as intolerant as you want (as justified as I may be in this case); in any case, nevertheless, I am not under criminal investigation for inciting hatred. Roger Waters is, however. Serves the b*****d right.
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: May 30 2023 at 14:23
1992: Roger Waters - Amused to Death - http://https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_ka1U3tes8Atdy1A_8oxGbPw7qVyg2qhIQ" rel="nofollow - http://https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_ka1U3tes8Atdy1A_8oxGbPw7qVyg2qhIQ
Roger is not amused! Roger Waters' third album explores more doom and gloom themes, ranging from World War One, the Gulf War and the ever-present threat of nuclear armageddon. It's a typical Roger Waters album then, although there's something strangely endearing about Roger's curmudgeonly outlook on life. After all, who else but Roger Waters could make a Radiohead album sound cheerful by comparison.
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: May 30 2023 at 15:19
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
1992: Roger Waters - Amused to Death - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzDLMqo_y4kLs_rppAZeLxML" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLikNHjJ_cxzDLMqo_y4kLs_rppAZeLxML
Roger is not amused! Roger Waters' third album explores more doom and gloom themes, ranging from World War One, the Gulf War and the ever-present threat of nuclear armageddon. It's a typical Roger Waters album then, although there's something strangely endearing about Roger's curmudgeonly outlook on life. After all, who else but Roger Waters could make a Radiohead album sound cheerful by comparison.
I'm amused at my second favorite Waters album. Roger certainly composes deep thoughts, imports important issues, tissues occasionally wiping see water out of the corners of my watering eyes. Eye shadow disaster! Mascara massacre.
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: May 30 2023 at 16:57
^ At least men never have to worry about eye shadow disaster, or mascara massacre - apart from in the New Romantic eighties era.
Steve Strange - strange by name, strange by his androgynous visage.
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 30 2023 at 20:42
RW should toddle off to that retirement home for incurable tyrants and kings sooner rather than later. Shame, a genius mind behind DSOTM just loses the plot. Brain Damage? Art imitating life or is it vice versa
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: May 31 2023 at 07:15
1992: Roger Waters - Amused to Death - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_ka1U3tes8Atdy1A_8oxGbPw7qVyg2qhIQ" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_ka1U3tes8Atdy1A_8oxGbPw7qVyg2qhIQ
Cheer up, Roger, it may never happen.
Posted By: telefunk
Date Posted: May 31 2023 at 11:45
He seems to have completely lost it. Go live in Russia if you love Pukin!
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: May 31 2023 at 11:50
The only good thing about the pros and cons album is the cover. I won't go so far as to say I hate it. I just think about 80 percent of it is really boring. I just can't get into it. It's also the only RW solo album I have.
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: May 31 2023 at 16:19
"I pay attention to the music...not the lyrics." How many times have I heard progheads say that one in reviews, posts, and in conversation? Well, I pay attention. I love the English language. I've read oodles of Joyce, Shakespeare, Fielding, Conrad, ect...
Best progressive rock lyrist ever? In my opinion, it's a toss up between Waters and Ian Anderson. It's hilarious how many folks misunderstand Water's words. When Water's writes "Welcome to the machine", he's not advocating for Fascism. He's using the literary devise of sarcasm to mock Fascism and show his contempt for all things totalitarian.
Back in the day, most folks got it. They'd seen the movie The Wall. Two score and four years later they don't get it.
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: May 31 2023 at 17:05
I thought welcome to the machine was about the business of music and its venal capitalists
------------- Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: May 31 2023 at 17:17
Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:
I thought welcome to the machine was about the business of music and its venal capitalists
Yes, that's part of it. The Machine is any Powerful Human Agency that takes advantage of those who don't have access to power. When Waters wrote "Welcome to the Machine" his daily experience was with the music industry. So he wrote what he knew. Yet, Waters saw Totalitarian Power existed in many places outside the music industry.
Waters channeled Orwell's Animal Farm to mock totalitarianism. Mocking totalitarians is a major theme running through the majority of Roger Waters' lyrical compositions. Sure, Orwell wrote about farm animals. Yet, Animal Farm was about much more than animals reorganizing a farm. Just so, when Waters references Dogs, Sheep, and Pigs...he actually meant humans. Imagine that?
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: May 31 2023 at 17:45
I thought it was a Scottish thing where you have been adopted into the clan, be it the clan MacDonald, the clan MacDougal, the can MacRob. or in this case the clan MacHine and they were wondering about his whereaboots before realising the he was having a bite to eat at the house o the nice lass wha livit doun the lade.
Welcome ma son welcome tae the MacHine where have ye been? it's alricht we know where ye've been... Ower at Miss MacMillan's tastin her delicious cullen skink again, richt?
------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts
1970: Roger Waters & Ron Geesin - Music from the Body - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kYi_W9V4PGdQqF16qM1-aXK1eKrH7tQAs" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kYi_W9V4PGdQqF16qM1-aXK1eKrH7tQAs 
1977: Pink Floyd - Animals - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHTo__bpnlYVrog7mExJ_e_h9WfH9FYzB" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHTo__bpnlYVrog7mExJ_e_h9WfH9FYzB 
1990: Roger Waters - The Wall - Live in Berlin - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyGHs2yXwu1Sg4DXha46hfqGs6LarGe8w" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyGHs2yXwu1Sg4DXha46hfqGs6LarGe8w 
SteveG wrote:
(and who cares?) - and your rating would be mine. This one is very close, in style and quality, to the Pros and Cons (more than to everything else PF, with The Wall of course coming not far beyond in being more Waters than PF...).
