Are Italian bands lumped into RPI or RPI?
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Topic: Are Italian bands lumped into RPI or RPI?
Posted By: Zeph
Subject: Are Italian bands lumped into RPI or RPI?
Date Posted: August 27 2020 at 13:48
| Among the bands from Italy in the archives, a lot of them are genred as RPI. I haven't listened to a lot of them, but would you say most of them actually fit the RPI sound or do many fit better in other categories? |
Replies:
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: August 27 2020 at 13:52
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It's largely symphonic, but Italy had a rather congenital prog scene so it is categorized as a regional art form rather than simply European prog. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: August 27 2020 at 14:00
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^ Yep. Once upon a time it was called Italian Symphonic Prog so the vast majority in RPI are symph bands. Once the change was made, some non-symph bands were added, but numbers wise can't compete with what ISP once was. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Sacro_Porgo
Date Posted: August 27 2020 at 14:15
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I think when you listen to enough of it though you do start to notice a few different common threads running between most of the Italian groups. A preference for either more impassioned operatic vocals or for more restrained atmospheric vocals perhaps. Certain melodic and harmonic tendencies which seem much more common with RPI groups than other prog groups. As with anything there are many exceptions, but I think the Italian scene in the early 70s at least did a good job of making itself distinct from other prog of the day. ------------- Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :) |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 27 2020 at 14:19
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^ Good answer, the Italian prog bands can have a unique style. This is also often true in jazz and RnB. I really like the Italian's sort of hyper rushed feel for funk rhythms, it is unique to them. Italian soundtrack music is also a category all its own. ------------- Help the victims of the russian invasion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 27 2020 at 14:21
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The Italian Progressive Rock category is quite strange -- indeed, most are on the symphonic Prog side, and I too remember when it was called Italian Symphonic Prog. While we have other categories with a regional reference, Canterbury Scene (which includes Canterbury Sound or Style) and Krautrock, both of those not only refer to a region, but also a sound. It's said that RPI does too despite any diversity, and Italian acts will be found in many categories, but RPI is the only one that only included acts from the home country. One will find Italian Krautrock and Canterbury Sound bands, but one won't find German RPI or Canterbury-based RPI. And we have Indo-Prog/Raga Rock inspired by Indian music. As a non-Italian, I've felt that various bands from Spanish-speaking (and Portuguese-speaking countries) sound very similar to notable names in RPI, but they aren't found in RPI. Some have called for an Andalusian Prog category, a Spanish and Portuguese Prog category, a French Prog category, one could make a case for a sort of Japanese Prog category, and Americana Prog etc. Which is not to say that I;m against the category, I love so much RPI, but I wish it was recognised as more of an international style and so similar bands from other countries were lumped in with it -- that RPSI, Rock Progressivo Sinfonico Italiano, sound. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: August 27 2020 at 15:24
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Most RPI may be described as melodic Symphonic prog, usually with Italian lyrics. Long ago, the subgenre was named Italian Symphonic Prog. However, there are some exceptions: Area may fit as well in JR/F or RIO (weren't they filed as JR/F originally?), Homunculus Res comes close to Canterbury (weren't they filed as Canterbury originally?), Ingranaggi della Valle don't sound as standard RPI and Battiato transcends all categories. But some non-RPI Italian bands are also interesting and most of these are under Eclectic: Areknamès, Daal, Profusion and - last but not least - Akt. Another cool fact: there are no non-Italian RPI bands, whereas there are quite a few non-German DPR (Deutsche Progressive Rock aka Krautrock)-bands. ------------- 
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: August 27 2020 at 16:06
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There's oodles of Italian bands that are not in RPI - mostly modern ones, but also a few of those that were active in the Seventies. Personally speaking, I was surprised (and not in a good way) when I saw Homunculus Res listed as RPI. Knowing their output quite well, I'd prefer to see them in Canterbury or even Crossover. On the other hand, the main reason why Area and Battiato are in RPI is historical, as they are among the most important representative of the original "pop italiano" movement. In any case, I'd recommend reading the subgenre introduction for a more thorough overview. As the OP is new to the forum and probably does not know me, I am Italian (though I've lived in the US for the past 12 years), and old enough to have been there when the Italian prog scene began. As a matter of fact, RPI bands such as PFM, Banco, Le Orme, Delirium and New Trolls were my introduction to prog.
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Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: August 27 2020 at 19:16
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OP: Great discussion topic! HOMUNCULUS RES for Canterbury! (How did The Winstons--a trio of Milanese pop stars--get Canterburied with only one Canterbury sounding album (out of two) when HR has not one, two, or three, but four! full-on Canterbury albums!!!??? AREA for J-R Fusion! They're better at J-R Fusion than the Mahavishnu Orchestra! ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 27 2020 at 19:58
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I certainly think of Homonculus Res as Canterbury Sound (reminds me somewhat of Picchio dal Pozzo), but I don;t know all the band's albums. And I think of Area as Avant Jazz Prog. I think it fits both JRF and Avant Prog. It's one of my very favourite bands. If it was up to me I'd move both methinks, even if Area is there for historic reasons. But I'm not on those teams and I guess they had their reasons with all of those. I've requested that teams move bands before (speaking directly with teams), and it has happened in those cases. Easy enough for collabs to make a case in team threads. As for Battiato, another favourite of mine -- depends on the album. Experimental, Electronic, Avant Prog, more Crossover.... He is quite eclectic. RPI is so eclectic that it doesn't altogether work for me as a category, and again that unlike Krautock and Canterbury which has acts from various countries (including ones from Italy), it has none that I can see not from Italy. It's not one scene or sound, and is rather too regional for me. Not complaining, though. I like plenty in the category, but it can be hard to figure out the standards of inclusion and exclusion -- it's hardly an exact science, and all of them could fit other categories. Of course one can't expect perfection or even a huge amount of consistency (can be a problem with having many teams with members on different teams, and not everyone understanding/ knowing well much music from every category in PA), and many acts could fit various categories. I do understand the ideas behind having RPI. Lots of my Italian faves are not in RPI such as: Franco Leprino, Picchio dal Pozzo, Pierrot Lunaire, Perigeo, Dedalus, Sesation's Fix, Stormy Six, Aktuala, Opus Avantra, Arti e Mestieri, Automat, Orchestra Njervudarov etc. I do love so much music from Italy in and out of PA. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: Zeph
Date Posted: August 28 2020 at 03:51
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Thanks for all the insight and thoughts. I think the language was a barrier when I first tried RPI, but I recently read a post in here which suggested it could be a positive thing since you don't understand the lyrics, and a lot prog lyrics are pretentious and not very good. When I saw LogoS' new album getting good reviews I gave it a try, and what an album it is! Since then I've tried some more and I can like this genre. I have been a fan of symphonic prog for a long time. I thought of this topic after coming across multiple RPI albums where a reviewer disagreed with the genre it was placed. Homonculus Res certainly brings Canterbury to mind, which coincidentally is another regional genre. I will however agree that many bands, not exclusively RPI, blends genres in ways that makes categorizing challenging. Especially if they change sound through the lifespan of the band. All of Pink Floyd's albums are put into Psyc/Space, but the difference from Piper to Division Bell is quite big. One could argue on a website for progressive rock, where the definition of progress is something that is evolving or changing, that the logic of categorizing bands and not albums is somewhat flawed. One important reason that I love prog is the variety. The overarching term "prog" has such a huge diversity under its wings. This is seemingly a shared sentiment in here since I see many bands being praised for trying something different, and likewise scorned for doing the same thing over and over, or sounding too much like their predecessors. This is also true for all entertainment I spend time on, like TV-series, movies, books etc. I can't stand most superhero movies since they fall into the same clichés and tropes, without any excitement about what will unfold. Game of Thrones/ASOFAI was constantly taking unpredicted twists and turns. Any form of entertainment or experience which brings something new or different is far more engaging to me. I don't listen strictly to genres as such, but it is helpful to give bands (or albums) tags for categorizing. It can also be a barrier, the way "RPI" has been a barrier for me to get into Italian prog. Has the option been considered on PA to give albums genre labels and not follow the label of the band? |
Posted By: Awesoreno
Date Posted: August 28 2020 at 12:16
| ^ Oh boy, HAS it. |
Posted By: Zeph
Date Posted: August 30 2020 at 13:44
Hehe, I see. What are the arguments to not? |
Awesoreno wrote:Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: August 30 2020 at 13:50
there are no arguments against it, but there are thousands of bands and albums in the archive, a sysyphus task to do right now. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: August 30 2020 at 14:09
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Impossible to do without the approval/collaboration of the owner, which is very unlikely to be forthcoming. I've been a member of this site for 15 years, and I know a lot of people would be in favour, but unfortunately the site is not ours. |