Last great Canterbury related album?
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
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Topic: Last great Canterbury related album?
Posted By: Rick1
Subject: Last great Canterbury related album?
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 01:16
| I read somewhere that National Health's 'Of Queues and Cures' was the last, great Canterbury album of the 1970s. I want to put that one to the test with the learned membership of Prog Archives. |
Replies:
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 01:21
| I would have to disagree with the premise, I think that were many great Canterbury Scene related albums that came later than all of these, and I think that the Canterbury Sound is still going strong. |
Posted By: Rick1
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 01:25
I continue to be a fan of the scene up until the present day (my last pre-lockdown gig was the excellent Soft Machine). I have seen many of these musicians post-1970s but their recorded output tends to be patchy and sporadic - much as I love them and I keep returning to their 70s prime.
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Logan wrote:Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 01:36
Well, the output may be patchy and sporadic (with many), but that doesn't mean that there haven't been great Canterbury Scene and CS related albums throughout the decades. For a big name in the Canterbury Scene, I've loved a lot of Robert Wyatt's albums throughout the years. By the way expect some of your choices to be picked on as to whether they are Canterbury scene related enough to warrant representation. |
Posted By: Rick1
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 01:41
I am a Wyatt fan too (along with Ratledge, one of the key members of the scene I have not seen live) but I also tried to give the poll some integration with the late 70s timeframe. Maybe I should create an alternative poll to capture post 70s output...
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 01:51
Or edit your initial post to make your intent clear since neither the title nor your opening post seem to indicate this late 70s timeframe. When you say "Last great Canterbury related album?" that indicates the latest possible album that could be considered great. I would totally disagree with what you read somewhere -- the "I read somewhere that National Health's 'Of Queues and Cures' was the last, great Canterbury album". I'd be interested to know the source if you can recall, and if it's someone whose opinion should matter to me or is a respected authority. I read lots of things that I feel have low merit, and claims that are not backed up well with strong research or good arguments. |
Posted By: Rick1
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 01:56
Edit made. The quote came from either the Bill Martin or the Paul Stump books. Both scholarly and authoritative (and published in the 90s).
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Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 01:57
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HC ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 02:01
Maybe those books have needed updating too. 
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Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 02:06
I didn't know the band U.K were part of the Canterbury Scene. 
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Posted By: Rick1
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 02:13
That first album is often considered related due to Bruford and Holdsworth...
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 02:16
I guess that's what he means by related. I find the UK, the Camel (despite having Richard Sinclair on the album), the Henry Cow (I consider early Henry Cow to be Canterbury Sound related at least) additions to be unusual choices -- especially when choosing to make such a short list. |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 02:18
Okay, thanks for the info.  I was tempted to vote for Camel's "Breathless", because that's the only album I've actually listened to in the poll, but maybe I'll give U.K's debut album a listen first before I cast my vote.
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Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 02:20
I've always considered Camel to be a Guildford Scene band.
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 02:21
^ That makes a lot more sense.
Or listen to the ones generally considered to be Canterbury Scene even if you don't generally like Canterbury Scene/ Sound music. Just a thought. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 02:25
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I can see Rick1's point of ending the poll at the close of the 70's.
If Leg End clearly sounds Canterburyesque, WC certainly doesn't at all. It's a near-pure RIO (ala UZ & AZ) album, IMHO. Not sure Camel should've been included either (UK, I can see why) ===================== As for my choice, I hesitate between Heap and Queues. (It might've been useful to state the date of release, though)
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Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 02:29
I have a strong feeling that I'll like National Health's second album when I eventually get around to listening to it, because I reviewed their debut album recently and gave it four stars.
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 02:33
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I wouldn;t have minded, it was just that the 70s timeframe was never mentioned. I still don't think that last great Canterbury Scene or Canterbury Scene related album came out in the late 70s, and I would question certain additions. I'm actually confused now with the edits, did the book claim that "National Health's 'Of Queues and Cures' was the last, great Canterbury album" as originally stated or that it was "the last, great Canterbury album of the 1970s." |
Posted By: Rick1
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 02:40
| Lol! I have opened a hornet's nest with this one...I expected nothing else from the good folk of Prog Archives. I tend to use Calyx - Aymeric Leroy's excellent Canterbury website - as a reference point for what is considered Canterbury related so my choices are conditioned by that. |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 02:54
I think I'm recognising my own ignorance when it comes to Canterbury Scene music, so maybe that makes me wiser.
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 03:16
Calyx is very good -- I used to visit that a lot. PA's Canterbury Scene page is very useful too as is the album chart: http://www.progarchives.com/top-prog-albums.asp?ssubgenres=12&syears=&scountries=&sminratings=1&smaxratings=0&sminavgratings=1&smaxresults=250&x=63&y=1#list" rel="nofollow - CLICK And rateyourmusic etc. By the way, I could imagine that the book might well have made that claim without the 1970s addition, and it's not that non-sensical (especially if it came out in the 90s). I might disagree, but I have a longer lens to look back on and a different perspective. In other words I could imagine that you were very correct when you said "I read somewhere that National Health's 'Of Queues and Cures' was the last, great Canterbury album". So sorry for wanting to uphold the value of post-1970 Canterbury Scene and Related albums. It is so subjective. By the way, sticking with the 70s, I would have included Mother Gong's Fairy Tales from November 1979. But you know, the more I think about it, I could see why someone would think that 1978 was the last really great (which might read as classic) year for Canterbury Scene music even if many albums I love came out later. National Health with the debut (my favourite National Health album) and Queues and Cures were both very significant releases. Even though I definitely prefer National Health's earlier album, I'll go with Cures (we could do with more cures, and less queues). Western Culture is my favourite on the list, but I don't think of it as either Canterbury Scene or Sound ad I think it makes more sense given the premise (comparing to your book source) to vote for one that I think Canterbury Scene, and I do go with that pick.
Not only is the recognition of one's own ignorance important, but knowing when not to pursue certain knowledge shows a certain wisdom too. :) There are some things that I'd rather not learn about or experience, and would not I think be of much value to me or even detrimental. There's only so much time. Listen to what interests you, but try to keep an open-mind even if you need to close those ears sometimes for your own well-being. :) |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 03:35
Very much this
 . Some new "Canterbury sound" albums are outstanding, if one bothers to look outside the Seventies. In any case, I wouldn't call either Western Culture (which is a masterpiece, though not exactly easy listening) or UK's debut Canterbury - certainly not in terms of sound. Camel's Breathless has a stronger claim, IMHO. |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 04:08
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U.K. ST. ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 05:22
Classic days - Of Queues and Cures for sure. But there are many great albums from this sub-genre since then and even in very recent times. |
Posted By: Rick1
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 06:26
See discussion earlier in thread.... |
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 07:03
| From this list, Health. One of the best bands and best albums ever made. |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 07:28
Have to agree in both cases, Canterbury is still alive though in a lesser form, UK's debut is a long long way from Canterbury (Jobson doesn't do whimsy), Henry Cow's only Canterbury related album is Leg End. I'd probably pick something by The Muffins or Antique Seeking Nuns from the more modern stuff. Of those offered I'll pick Western Culture as it's top 10 all-time for me (though purely RIO/Avant), just ahead of the superb Of Queues and Cures. Henry Cow > National Health > Gilgamesh > Gong
------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 07:49
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Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 07:51
Same here. I never thought of them as Canterbury.
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Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 07:54
He should have probably put that in the title. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 08:04
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Misleading title as there have been just as many great Canterbury-related releases in the last 10-20 years.
Of the ones posted, only Gilgamesh and National Health retain any resemblance to the musical styles that started it all (early Soft Machine, Caravan, Uriel, & Egg). ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: geekfreak
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 08:12
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Henry Cow ------------- Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake." Music Is Live Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed. Keep Calm And Listen To The Music… < |
Posted By: progmatic
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 13:31
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Voted UK but don't think of them as Canterbury AT ALL. Same with several other choices here. Gilgamesh or National Health should get the votes. ------------- PROGMATIC |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 13:36
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UK's and Camel's albums are the best, but neither is Canterbury scene. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 13:50
I'll save my vote for Camel in the Guildford Scene poll.
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 13:56
Save your breath, Drew  . There's no life (or no prog) beyond the 1970s!Anyway, another vote for Of Queues and Cures, an absolute masterpiece.
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Posted By: Upbeat Tango Monday
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 20:31
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National Health ------------- Two random guys agreed to shake hands. Just Because. They felt like it, you know. It was an agreement of sorts...a random agreement. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 21:23
Not sure if you read through the thread, but originally the OP just said "I read somewhere that National Health's 'Of Queues and Cures' was the last, great Canterbury album. I want to put that one to the test with the learned membership of Prog Archives." I suggested editing the OP to make his time-frame clearer as that came up in a later post. I didn't think he'd be adding that "...of the 1970s" to what he remembered having read. I think such discussions are better done not as polls. If the question had been, "What do you think is the last great Canterbury Scene or Canterbury Scene related album of the 1970s?" then my approach would have been different. I actually wouldn't have opened it up to non-Canterbury Scene albums if we are questioning the National Health claim about Of Queues and Cures being the last great Canterbury Scene album that he read somewhere. and he "want[s] to put that one to the test with the learned membership of Prog Archives." Including ones not considered Canterbury scene seems quite irrelevant to the claim. And if doing such a poll, I think it screams for an "other" option. The claim certainly is quite different when one adds "of the 1970s" (as was edited in later), and I wish I could read the source material. By the way, Cuneiform records and the PA bio for National Health both start with the claim that "National Health was one of the last of the great "Canterbury-style" progressive rock bands." And of course the topic title still asks the question "Last great Canterbury related album?" And if I disagree that 'Of Queues and Cures' was the last great album of its ilk, I don;t think it need matter if the claim said of the 7Os or not in answering the question "what do we think is the last great Canterbury related album?" |
Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 21:31
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Taken as a bunch of albums, my vote goes to Another Fine Tune You've Got Me Into. One of the tastiest jazz-fusion albums out there. ------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385 |
Posted By: Rick1
Date Posted: July 23 2020 at 02:16
Blimey. I apologise for posting this poll. Please, can everyone go back to deciding whether or not Rush is better than Jethro Tull? I thank you.
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: July 23 2020 at 02:55
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I was just clarifying, no need to feel bad about how it went. And feel free to disagree. It just bred some confusion due to the way you prepared the topic. For my part, I tend to think of these polls as primarily an accessory to discussion, discovery, sharing ideas, and debating to some extent. I know that my intent has very often been misunderstood when I've made topics or posts even when I've gone to great pains to go into great details, try to present a coherent mission statement or argument, and try to cover all the bases. Such topics might take an hour or more to think about and write, but still people might not get my intent and I would go down the seems to require further clarification, and more, and more route. It can be frustrating, but 10,000 words later every one is tired and moves on. Hopefully we do learn from each other, and our perspective might shift as we debate/discuss. The most important to me is that we all try to actively listen to and understand where the other is coming from. It's no fun if conversation is at cross-purposes, but it can take some work and compromise to get on the same page. The most boring of topics often are the least controversial. And you won't find me deciding if Rush is better than Jethro Tull. I prefer Tull, but am not really a fan of either and I'm tired of the "better" type topics. I'd rather do a deep dive into Canterbury Scene music (maybe I'll learn about some Canterbury Sound bands that I haven't heard of) than talk about either of those acts. For some they're not really after conversation and like making or participating in polls for other reasons. Perhaps I'll bump one of my Canterbury Scene polls. Criticice my choices and approach if you think it irrational or demonstrates ignorance (constructively, please). Sometimes it will; hopefully I learn how better to do it next time. EDIT: I bumped my poll topic, and I do hope you take the time to participate even if you question my choices or approach (I often make mistakes other than my usual typos). I did that as part of a series and also went outside of the Canterbury Scene box across my polls to include a wider variety of music and more acts. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: July 23 2020 at 02:56
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Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: July 24 2020 at 07:52
Absolutely! Way underrated too. Magic sound with all that Fender Rhodes loveliness. A showcase at the very least. ------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385 |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: July 25 2020 at 13:29
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All good lp's ...went with Nat Health , and I never thought of UK as 'Canterbury'. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |