Ayreon: The Human Equation V’s Yes: GFTO
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Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12348
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Topic: Ayreon: The Human Equation V’s Yes: GFTO
Posted By: AfanSpur
Subject: Ayreon: The Human Equation V’s Yes: GFTO
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 03:23
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I noticed on the front page thatAyreon's THE was at 51 and Going for the one by Yes was at 56. This to me seems a quirk of the archives. I was wondering how many people actually prefer the Human equation over Going for the one with Awaken et al.? ------------- There stands Olias to outward to build a ship Holding within all we hope to retain The frame will be so built to challenge the universe Clasped with the skins of the fish of the plain |
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Posted By: Cygnus X-2
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 03:24
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It's just a list... you don't have to follow what it says. ------------- 
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Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 03:35
| Going For the One is nowhere near the same league of brilliance as The Human Equation. I'd consider GFTO one of the weaker Yes albums, whereas THE is one of those undeniable classics in modern music. |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 04:29
| GFTO is one of my favourite Yes albums, only surpassed by Close to the Edge and Relayer. THE is nowhere near it, but that's just my opinion. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 05:25
The Human Equation is an absolute highlight of modern prog. It surpasses many Yes albums ... GFTO included. BTW: Into the Electric Castle is even better IMO. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
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AfanSpur wrote:Posted By: cobb
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 05:44
You talking about the same album that contains Awaken, Turn of the Century and Wonderous Stories? |
Posted By: RaphaelT
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 06:39
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GFTO is a classic and there is no point arguing about that. The list is made on basis on average of notes given by the reviewers, who tend to be overenthusiastic to modern music. On the other hand they try to make every effort to make a critical review of a classic album, not caring if it is not based on their subjective opinions, which are not always just. ------------- yet you still have time! |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 07:04
Every rating is subjective ... how can you know that your point of view is the right one?. Isn't it possible that some of the modern albums in the top 100 are indeed as good (or even better) than many of the classic albums? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 07:11
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------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 07:22
^ what's funny about it? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: CrazyDiamond
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 07:56
The Human Equation is better than GFTO, it rules!  ------------- 
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Posted By: lovecraft
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 08:06
These lists are just plain crazy really Comparing long standing classic GFTO with anything by the cheesemeister Ayreon is surely a joke and so on |
Posted By: Ed_The_Dead
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 08:16
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What Are You people insane (Well, yes, You actually are I don't like Yes, but I love Ayreon... Others like Yes, hate Ayreon.... But the thing is that the albums where created in totally different times & give You totally different music... Comparing will only create hate ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ed_the_dead/?chartstyle=asimpleblue5"> 
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Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 08:23
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I think that Lovecraft has summed it up rather ably... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 08:25
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------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 08:25
His post started fairly reasonable ... but he lost me somewhere around "cheesemeister". ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Ed_The_Dead
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 08:26
Well.. Why don't we start another "Delusional Old Farts vs Young pseudo prog wannabees" thread? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ed_the_dead/?chartstyle=asimpleblue5">
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 08:27
Good idea ... Old fools vs. young idiots. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 08:30
ok, lets take away cheesemeister, and substitute the meister of contrived, emotionally sterile, ludicrous concept which could have been written by a 15 year old after his first all night hash party.... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 08:32
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 08:35
excuse me, but if you can listen to Awaken without all your hairs standing up on end and a shiver running down your spine, then then you should be pronounced as clinically dead... ...The day Ayreon write something a tenth as emotive and beautiful as this, I will dance around the streets of Hereford naked, with a carnation between my clenched buttocks... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 08:36
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Ed_The_Dead
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 08:37
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^In my book You should've allready done that at least 3 times... Yes NEVER moved me... but thats just taste... those damn distorted guitars blasted all the brains from my head ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ed_the_dead/?chartstyle=asimpleblue5">
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Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 08:48
You're right Mike, as you know, I have always had it in for Ayreon... ...and its only partly because most of the fundamental ingredients I look for in prog are accutely missing in Ayreon's music (If Yes were the texture of Silk and Velvet, Ayreon would be polystyrene...) It's also only partly because I get this strange sense that somehow the whole never comes remotely near the capability of the sum of the parts. The fact is, its also partly because I begrudge the fact that members of Shadow Gallery, Symph X and other great great bands get sidetracked for months on end down this thankless side alley.... INSTEAD OF RELEASING THEIR OWN ALBUMS.. Forgive me...I'm just having a bad morning... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Ed_The_Dead
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 08:51
^ You had Yer morning coffee? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ed_the_dead/?chartstyle=asimpleblue5">
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Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 08:54
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That's the problem Ed....it was drinking chocolate this morning!!! ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Ed_The_Dead
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 08:57
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Maybe Yee still asleep! Go and wake up, take a shower, drik some coffe, eat a nice full english breakfast (With no meat, of course ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ed_the_dead/?chartstyle=asimpleblue5">
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Posted By: Progzilla
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 09:15
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I find The Human Equation to be brilliant. Some of you apparently do
not like the concept and therefore regard the whole album as rubbish.
If you think it's just about a man in a coma whose friend has an affair
with his wife, you obviously didn't understand anything. That's just
some of the events taking place. The album paints a wonderful imagery
with emotions, each portraid by excellent vocalists. And more
importantly, the musical arrangements are awesome. Anyway, T.H.E. really is a gem for many people on this forum, believe it or not. The sooner you realize that many members here love progmetal, often even more than some classic prog albums, the sooner we are spared from idiotic remarks like the ones here about Ayreon. Going for the one, now that happens to be an album that's second from the top in my stash of unopened cd's that I'm going through. Can't wait to start listening to it. Like Ed_the_dead said, it silly comparing GFTO and THE, I'm going to enjoy both! There!  ..now where's my morning cup of coffee?!?!------------- Currently listening to: - Andromeda - Pagan's Mind - Kamelot |
Posted By: Logos
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 09:31
It's good.. but not that good!! |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 09:32
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It doesn'T surpass CttE ... but GFtO (IMO). ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Ed_The_Dead
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 09:34
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Its awesome! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ed_the_dead/?chartstyle=asimpleblue5">
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Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 10:07
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erm...you are talking about a guy who has the entire catalogue of Dream Theater, Fates Warning, Queenryche, Evergrey, Shadow Gallery, Threshold, Symphony X, Vanden Plas, Pain Of Salvation & Poverty's No Crime, with a bit of Blind Guardian thrown in for good measure...I also like Nightwish, Ark, and the Tool I have heard.... ...as you can see, I'm not exactly closed minded about Prog Metal Progzilla, and it doesn't mean that my views about Ayreon are idiotic. I have tried them several times and they always have and probably always will leave me STONE COLD... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Ed_The_Dead
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 10:10
The only perscription is: MORE COFFEE!!! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ed_the_dead/?chartstyle=asimpleblue5">
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Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 10:14
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^^^I'd better move straight on to the whiskey, Ed!! ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Ed_The_Dead
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 10:21
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------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ed_the_dead/?chartstyle=asimpleblue5">
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Posted By: Progzilla
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 10:25
I know that you like prog metal too, fandango, don't worry. I wasn't talking to you specifically, except for your cheesemeister comment, which is now actually quite funny, now that I got my cup of coffee, some exercise and a shower. ------------- Currently listening to: - Andromeda - Pagan's Mind - Kamelot |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 10:27
 ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Ed_The_Dead
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 11:06
I had a shower, a nice breakfest (in fact I eat constantly all day today ), 2 hours of maths & pchysics & My Daily dosage of Prog but I still think that guy was/is a moron! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ed_the_dead/?chartstyle=asimpleblue5">
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Posted By: RaphaelT
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 11:09
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Progmetal is a trend, which brought fresh power to progrock, thus enriching it. T.H.E. is a real masterpiece, a real gem. However, respecting the right to have subjective opinions about music, I think we should agree, that bunch of English progressive bands from the 70s (Pink Floyd, JTull, Genesis, Yes, ELP and many others) created the genre called as progressive rock and has earned right to due respect. Therefore I suggest we should agree that all their good albums are our classics, since they created something what we may call "progressive idiom". Otherwise our discussions would be nothing but anarchy. Therefore I see no contradiction in liking T.H.E. very much and at the same time "worshipping" GFTO as a good YES album (not as great as CTTE or Relayer of course, but there is no argument like that "I'd rather listen to T.H.E. because GFTO is not the best Yes album. It's not logical). And for those who like prog metal and do not like YES: there is no account about tastes of course, but IMO Yes is prog itself, and you are making yourself blind to one of the most important aspects of prog. A bit complicated, but I'm starting a legal job on Monday. ------------- yet you still have time! |
Posted By: Ed_The_Dead
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 11:12
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^ You gonna be a politician? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ed_the_dead/?chartstyle=asimpleblue5">
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Posted By: nimrodel
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 11:17
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Human Equation is better. there is only one or two good songs in goin for the one. my opinnion. ------------- We want... a shrubbery! |
Posted By: RaphaelT
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 11:35
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No, but I agree it sounded conciliatory, which is similar to politicians' speeches, in which they say many words, but no real content, in order to make everyone feel they founded something interesting about themselves. However I didn't want to be rude and write opinion of progmetal fans, who are in fact metal fans in disguise and who offend my beloved Yes. I know this is unfair and unjust and generally not true. Dla twojej osobistej informacji, Ed The Dead, po prostu jako prawnik czasami muszę coś zagmatwać w tekście. ------------- yet you still have time! |
Posted By: RaphaelT
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 11:37
The point is, it is quality of songs that matters in prog, and I believe I share the common view, that single Awaken, which is special, beats thousands of progressive songs, including everything on T.H.E. and many other Ayreon's songs. And I don't agree that there is only few good songs on GFTO. Name the weak ones. ------------- yet you still have time! |
Posted By: nimrodel
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 11:43
but if album have many weak songs the album cant be very good.. in my opinnion the weak songs in going for the one are: Going For The One, Parallels and Wonderous Stories. which means that the 3/5 of the album is weak. ------------- We want... a shrubbery! |
Posted By: RaphaelT
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 11:54
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Exactly what I thought!! You don't like simple rock'n'roll and single hits, do you? But try to think about them in this way: GFTO starts as straightforward rock'n'roll, which was their intention because everyone described Yes, especially Jon as "pompous" - but in the end they deconstruct this scheme, esp. thanks to Rick's keyboards. Parallels - clever use of pipe organ makes very powerful sound and it rocks!! It's the use of non-rock instrument to create rock power!! And great author David Macan (Rockin' the Classics) give "Parallels" as epitome of polyphonic harmony (it's seven voices, incl. all instruments), along with masterpieces of Moody Blues and Gentle Giant. And "Wondrous Stories" is lovely short song, wonderfully played and great intro to "Awaken". Now give me similar examples from T.H.E. (Day Two, in which Arjen copies "On The Run" by Pink Floyd does not count). ------------- yet you still have time! |
Posted By: nimrodel
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 12:00
do you mean weak songs in human equation:Day Fifteen: Betrayal, Day Six: Childhood and Day Two: Isolation... but its a concept album so its hard to name any weak songs... ------------- We want... a shrubbery! |
Posted By: Logos
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 12:13
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This is not a matter of opinion..
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Posted By: RaphaelT
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 12:13
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No, I meant the songs on T.H.E. which have similar positive qualities, as the weak songs from GFTO I described above. And you've made fair point. T.H.E. is a concept album, which makes it very difficult to compare to GFTO. As I mentioned before, I like both albums. ------------- yet you still have time! |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 12:14
I find your attitude surprising! I thought you were above this kind of bashing Fandango. You don't like them so ergo, they are rubbish.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 12:53
I can't agree with you... ...I'm not a big Camel fan...I think that Andy Latimer is a super guitarist, and can understand why people like them, but I wouldn't give them a regular listen. For different reasons, I'd say the same about King Crimson. Not so with Ayreon; they are so synthetic, derivative and preposterous, they are laughable, and frankly are living evidence of all the overblown, pompous self importance that prog has been (often unjustly) accused of by its detractors for many years. Frankly, my views on Ayreon are nothing new Snowie, and you of all people shouldn't be surprised that I find Going For The One so superior in every way, that even mentioning them in the same thread is frankly bad taste... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: mr.burns
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 12:54
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This is really hopeless,another ones taste is not something thats up for discussion.Its like a wise man once said"There`s two things you dont critiscise,a mans choise of work and a mans choise of woman" ------------- Father Ted: Sheep like all wool-bearing animals, instinctively travel north. Where it's colder, and they won't be so stuffy. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 13:01
I know your views on Ayreon and after listening to The Universasl Migrator, I can't understand them at all! It is a superb album! As far as comparisons to GFTO go, Its not a sacred cow for heavens sake! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 13:27
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^^^ I was lent 'Into The Electric Castle' a few years ago by a guy who went to the CRS gigs in Rotherham, which I didn't like very much for the reasons I have given (Rock Opera my foot)....but I recently gave them a 2nd chance and The Universal Migrator is even worse, if that's possible... Also, I realise that GFTO isn't a Sacred Cow, but I also remember saying to you before, that if anyone asked me to pick one single track to explain to someone why I loved prog, it would be Awaken...it's quite possibly my all time fave...which is why I just can't believe its being bashed in favour of Ayreon!!! ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Ed_The_Dead
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 13:32
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Well... I don't remeber this album i particular, but You should belive it is possible ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ed_the_dead/?chartstyle=asimpleblue5">
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 13:35
Awaken is a terrific piece of music, I'm not bashing Yes! But your comments on Ayreon are even more extreme! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 13:38
Pure idiocy. You should do yourself a favour and watch the Star One DVD. You'll find that Ayreon (and Arjen in particular) are very down-to-earth musicians. Why do you have to be so over the top with your bashing? Remember: THE is quite high in the top 100. Please don't insult the Ayreon fans more than necessary. You don't like them, many others do ... get over it. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 13:47
Hey, the thread asked if anyone honestly liked The Human Equation more than Going For the One, I did so I said so. If that means I'm going to laughed at, what was the point of starting this thread? Find the people who like The Human Equation so that we can all ridicule them? Also, I don't think trashing the lyrics is really a valid complaint when you're defending a band whose lyricist is Jon Anderson. |
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 13:47
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I don't like The Human Equation at all, quite boring if you want to know my opinion, but the same can be said about Going For The One, aside Awaken which is reasonably good the album is not up to Yes standards prior to that album, same is true for ayreon, I like most of the albums prior to THE (Into The Electric Castle is my favourite). anyway, my ratings for both albums is about three stars, were GTFO will get 4 because of Awaken and THE will get 2 because of the lack of one stand out track ------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: lovecraft
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 13:56
Not sure that it is scientifically possible for me to agree with anyone more. I remember the one time someone played me Into The Electric Castle....jaw droppingly dreadful in every respect, but hey, its horses for courses |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 16:24
Thank you Lovecraft...at least I'm not the only one not going mad around here... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 16:26
Yeah, 'Down to Earth' musicians who get you to file their one album under Space Metal... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Ed_The_Dead
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 16:27
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Fandango! How's the drinking going? You like Ayreon a bit better? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ed_the_dead/?chartstyle=asimpleblue5">
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 16:32
Space Metal really fits, what's the problem? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: horza
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 16:37
i like both - i treat lists as suggestions only and check out bands i'm interested in , if i had to choose one over the other it would GFTO  ------------- Originally posted by darkshade: Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot. |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: October 01 2005 at 16:38
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I think I've said enough, and shall leave this thread alone now....the last thing I want to do is upset people whose musical judgment I otherwise respect... Terrific set of album covers you've got there Mike.... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: Thufir Hawat
Date Posted: January 10 2006 at 21:49
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I prefer “Going for the One” to “the Human Equation” even though it is a very unique and strange album. ------------- "I can't see through my eye lids" |
Posted By: gdub411
Date Posted: January 10 2006 at 21:55
| The Human Equation is better than any Yes Lp. Now the rest of Ayreon's catalog is tripe including Into the Electric Castle. |
Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: January 11 2006 at 21:19
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Every rating is subjective ... how can you know that your point of view is the right one?. Isn't it possible that some of the modern albums in the top 100 are indeed as good (or even better) than many of the classic albums? [/QUOTE] I agree, and lots and lots of subjective reviews produce an objective average rating... |
Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: January 11 2006 at 21:20
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now that's blasphemy.... |
Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: January 12 2006 at 12:49
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I prefer by far The Human Equation... ------------- Follow me on twitter @memowakeman |
Posted By: Paulieg
Date Posted: January 12 2006 at 13:13
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Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: January 12 2006 at 13:57
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Ditto ------------- |
Posted By: gdub411
Date Posted: January 12 2006 at 16:53
I couldnt agree more. Into the Electric Castle is over-rated. While it is well made and has a great cast to perform it, it just comes off as emotionless and cold to me. The Universal Migrator is just horrible and The Final Countdown is just silly and cheesy. With that said, The Human Equation is great. Ayreon finally got it right on this one. Even bad bands can get it right once...eh? Fortunately for me, i had purchased this one 1st, or else I might have been in the same opinion about it as you are. |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: January 12 2006 at 17:16
Thanks Greg.. I will say that your view is possibly the most reasonable one offered, and some time I just may check out THE, and try and give it a fair hearing..... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |