MikeEnRegalia wrote: What's so brilliant about the ending of Octavarium? Both Scenes and 6DOIT disc 2 have MUCH better endings.

yea well 6doit got a better ending but i think it is really one of the best...if they only had kept the flute outro part ...But i just love symphonic stuff with a orchestra, cant help it

GFoyle: Their music is quite complex and difficult to play. I'm a musician and I know how difficult it is to stand on stage and jump around and interact with the audience even when you play SIMPLE songs. I agree that they're a bit "stiff" ... I really like Zappa in that regard. They interacted much with the audience and at the same time played very complex music.

Please don't call them w**kers just because they play complex stuff. They do that, most of their fans like it, and if YOU don't like music like that then do yourself a favor and DON'T GO THERE. Or at least don't expect it to be different and then complain about it afterwards.

GFoyle: Their music is quite complex and
difficult to play. I'm a musician and I know how difficult it is to stand on
stage and jump around and interact with the audience even when you
play SIMPLE songs. I agree that they're a bit "stiff" ... I really like Zappa in
that regard. They interacted much with the audience and at the same time
played very complex music.

Please don't call them w**kers just because they play complex stuff.
They do that, most of their fans like it, and if YOU don't like music like
that then do yourself a favor and DON'T GO THERE. Or at least don't
expect it to be different and then complain about it afterwards.

GFoyle wrote: Jumping around and being energetic on the stage is one approach of making a good live show and I understand that DT's music is not perhaps the most suited for it. Nobody stops DT members interacting with the audiance between songs though... I think there are multiple way of being a good live act, I just didn't DT was any of them.

Then you should not go to a King Crimson show.

GFoyle wrote: I never said that I didn't like their music, I didn't pay good money to sit there and listen to them almost three hours to just bash them. Just the damn solo's annoy me and especially in a live show they are very apparent. I WAS expecting that though, it is just "funny" that is all.

Well, then DON'T GO THERE because DT is all about solos and complex song structures. People go to these shows because of these aspects. Surely DT aren't JUST that - but it's their main "asset".

GFoyle wrote: btw. guitar solos IMO do not make music complex

 true ... fortunately DT aren't just about guitar solos. The point is that they're all virtuosos on their instruments, and they all get their spots.

GFoyle wrote: maidenrulez wrote: Well are you saying that it is a bad thing that Petrucci is allowed to play guitar solos in the songs? I mean almost every prog band got guitar solos and i dont think petrucci uses longer time on them compared to other bands... Most prog bands have instrumental passages, I don't think most prog bands have guitar solos at least not in that extent.

i do really think that 99% of the time petrucci is concentrating on making the best possible music. But he is a remarable guitar talent...why hide it? I mean as forexample a football player you sure want to show off your best sides every time.

cobb wrote: Petrucci is a perfectionist. I think it was portnoy who said, He plays about a million notes in a show, but if he doesn't get that one note right, the whole night is ruined (not an exact quote, but near enough). He was refering to the feedback note that starts train of thought.

Yup as said in my previous other thread i think DREAM THEATER can get a bit "stiff" and clinical and it gets to the point where it is just about concentrating on getting everything exactly the same as the studio version instead of enjoying themselves

Maybe they're not the most personable people, I know I'm not, so I have no problem with this.

And GFoyle, do you like bebop and bebop-derived jazz, by any chance?

I agree with you GFoyle. Being in Australia i have not had the opportunity to see Dream Theater live in person so it's really hard to guage them fairly, but i have seen a couple of DVDs and clips and they don't seem to be an interesting live band at all.
I really don't get how people can just say it's because the music is so complex al the time either. I mean come on DT's music isn't THAT complex. Ok the have intricate little runs here and there, but there are PLENTY of moments for the band to get into it or just even move around the stage or something, but i've never seen them do it. It makes their music come across as more of a gimmick to them or a chore rather than something they enjoy. However, as i said, i've never experienced them live, so i can only go off video footage.

Again, being in Australia i haven't had much opportunity to see any decent big name bands, but i have seen Opeth, and while they aren't the most active band in the world either, they still get into it and interact really well with the audience. Hell, they even played along with chants in the audience when they came down here.

My friends and I saw Opeth in Cleveland (Damnation tour) and they did way too much "interacting with the audience".  The lead singer just wouldn't shut up between songs.  He'd talk for 5 minute stretches on stuff between every song and it was just so frustrating.  It seemed like such an amateur production.

GFoyle wrote: I was there too and I wasn't that impressed. They played well and a lot of good songs (song Octavarium in full was a big plus) but as a live act they are boring as hell. LaBrie's "moves" were like blast from the past, reminded me of somebody like Jon Bon Jovi, LOL. How Petrucci has been able to squeeze in those instrument-masturbation solos in 95% of their songs in just amazing... in a bad way. They also had this "big band" syndrome that they didn't really interact with the audience much at all and felt to me very "distant". Maybe I am comparing it to too much to the great gig by OPETH saturday... Didn't really change my opinion of the band at all, still okay but not great. 7/10.

Dream Theater aren't supposed to be a visually interesting band to watch. They are musically very interesting, and when I went to watch them during GIGANTOUR, they were exceptionnaly good on a technical point of view. For James LaBrie, he looked very retarded with his moves i must admit. Dream Theater not interacting with the fans is totally normal, if you consider that they all have to be very concentrated on the music. And I thought that they interacted very well with the public with their music.

DT rule!

I can't believe that people here are criticising their choice of what type of music they want to play????? less solos and cut out material???? I suppose that you'd like all bands to operate via phone in poll. Don't like it don't buy it. Don't like the shows don't go. I've seen DT 6 times and they are my favourite band live. There are many bands I don't like but I don't feel the need to go and post negative comments about them, I focus on what is good in music and what I like.

DT will always get slated by certain types because of their success. They have enjoyed great success within their genre because people LIKE WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

Nuff said.

MysticDream wrote: Wow, where to start.... Dream Theater ABSOLUTELY interacts with the audience and haves fun during their concerts. Of course their music is pretty complex so they have to be concentrating a lot of the time, but when I saw them on GIGANTOUR, they were anything but stiff. Labrie was all over the stage, Portnoy threw his sticks out during the songs, and was tossing them to Labrie back and forth while playing, Petrucci definetly had some rocking headbanging going on, they sing "To those who understand I extend my hand, to the doubtful I demand EAT MY ASS AND BALLS" instead of "TAKE ME AS I AM".....that doesn't sound too stiff to me.

I can only go on the DVD's that ive got of them as i havnt had the opertunity to see them live yet but they really seem to try and work up the crowd through their music more than telling anecdotes. And at the end of the day arnt you going their to watch them perform some of the most complex music out their, not to see some bloke stand around on stage talking to you wilst three or four others stand around tuning up instruments.

I can only go on the DVD's that ive got of them as i havnt had the opertunity to see them live yet but they really seem to try and work up the crowd through their music more than telling anecdotes. And at the end of the day arnt you going their to watch them perform some of the most complex music out their, not to see some bloke stand around on stage talking to you wilst three or four others stand around tuning up instruments.