Iran missile strike
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Topic: Iran missile strike
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Subject: Iran missile strike
Date Posted: January 11 2020 at 17:13
| Thoughts on Iran's admitting to shooting down passenger plane. Sad. |
Replies:
Posted By: hugo1995
Date Posted: January 12 2020 at 15:54
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big blunder, very embarrassing. They spent the last 30 years complaining that USA is barbaric because they shot down one of their passenger planes, then they did the same thing themselves. By that logic, they deserve to be ridiculed for the next 30 years. Also side note: Trump blasts 1 terrorist. Iran ends up: Wasting their missiles on nothing. 50+ people die in a trample at the funeral. Shoot down a passenger jet on high alert. Massive blunder. All that aside, they probably blame Trump for the passenger jet as they were on high alert because of him. I won't be surprised if they retaliate again. ------------- interests: Moon Safari, Gilgamesh, Egg, ELP, Soft Machine, Gong, Opeth (Everything pre watershed), Brighteye Brison, The Flower Kings |
Posted By: TCat
Date Posted: January 12 2020 at 18:24
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Soleimani was responsible for the deaths of many Americans. He might not have been the one to kill them, but he gave the orders, he was in charge, he is responsible. He has been doing this for years, yet no one wanted to take him out. Why is that, I wonder? Does it have something to do with "intelligence"? Does it have something to do with checks and balances? Today, Mark Esper listed off all of the US deaths that Soleimani was responsible for since he was in charge and gave the orders, and all of the "collateral damage" from those killings were his responsibility. Trump gave the order to kill Soleimani and he did it by "following his gut". Esper was correct about blaming Soleimani, but he also needs to carry that one more step further and say that Trump is responsible for the terrible chain of events that happened from his gut feeling, including the "collateral damage" that resulted from it. He didn't just kill one terrorist, he killed all of the people that have died from his command. He is just as responsible of this "blunder", including the killing of all of the innocent people on that jet, as the Iranian generals that "blundered" along with him. I don't sympathize with anyone that promotes war, hatred and killing, whether its Iran, North Korea or the US. Anytime it happens, the impact is always more than just the incident itself, and everything that results from war-like actions are the responsibility of those that are in command. Those that give the commands are responsible and should take the blame for what happens, its as simple as that. ------------- https://ibb.co/8x0xjR0" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 13 2020 at 00:40
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Trump isn't responsible for the passenger jet . However Trump is not someone who is going to help resolve the general problems in the region but then neither could Obama or anyone else imo. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: January 13 2020 at 01:33
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I've given up trying to understand the Middle East situation generally. It's far too complex. It was bad enough before the Iraq war, and since then there are no clear lines in the sands. The west works with terrorists to overthrow dictators, but the terrorist factions also fight each other because they are enemies. None of us are really qualified to have an opinion, and to place trust in someone like Donald Trump to untangle this is frankly demented. Bush lit the fuse and threw the bomb into the powder keg. Hillary and Obama got in there and kicked the flaming wreckage about a bit and poured some petrol on the mayhem. Then America elected a disordered narcissistic clown, with the mind of a child, as the solution. You ultimately reap what you sow. A lesson often forgotten. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: TCat
Date Posted: January 13 2020 at 09:41
^Well said. ------------- https://ibb.co/8x0xjR0" rel="nofollow"> |
Blacksword wrote:Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: January 13 2020 at 10:58
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Agreed. The Middle East is complicated. It generally boils down to oil and the "powers that be" struggling against each to extend their "spheres of influence" over the region, and thus the oil. Some of this can also be attributed to the flawed Sykes-Picot plan of dividing up the former Ottoman territories in the region and of course there is the Sunni-Shiite split. But yeah, oil. ------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
Posted By: jayem
Date Posted: January 17 2020 at 14:05
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A lot of what happens there is related to Israel: those who won't promote annihilating zionism are called traitors or hypocrites by others who despise the "dogs" who tell that to them. As for sanctions on Iran it's a risky game, I've read https://www.ecfr.eu/article/commentary_after_the_jcpoa_the_world_needs_germany._but_where_is_it " rel="nofollow - this article on how Germany could play a major role there ------------- http://www.digger.ch/?lang=en" rel="nofollow - Support mine-clearing ! https://bandcamp.com/machinechance/?lang=en" rel="nofollow - bandcamp collection |
Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: January 17 2020 at 14:59
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^ Your link did not work for me? |
Posted By: jayem
Date Posted: January 17 2020 at 16:06
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I haven't inserted it porpertly. Here it is https://www.ecfr.eu/article/commentary_after_the_jcpoa_the_world_needs_germany._but_where_is_it" rel="nofollow - https://www.ecfr.eu/article/commentary_after_the_jcpoa_the_world_needs_germany._but_where_is_it ------------- http://www.digger.ch/?lang=en" rel="nofollow - Support mine-clearing ! https://bandcamp.com/machinechance/?lang=en" rel="nofollow - bandcamp collection |
Posted By: Davesax1965
Date Posted: January 18 2020 at 04:15
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Put it in context. 460,000 deaths as a result of the Iraq war. That's just Iraq, not Afghanistan. Or Syria, Iran or anywhere else the US is interfering. And the Americans wonder why the Middle East is somewhat irritated by them. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War" rel="nofollow - https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War ------------- |
Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: January 18 2020 at 10:45
| Context^.....The invasion phase began on 19 March 2003 and lasted just over one month, including 21 days of major combat operations, in which a combined force of troops from the United States, the United Kingdom, Australia and Poland invaded Iraq. |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: January 18 2020 at 10:52
Agree.....That whole region is one big bowl of heaping, steaming elephant dung, the pile keeps getting broomed all over the place. Previous US administrations did no worse or better, most ignored these individuals like Soleimani, clearly his list of actions called for action against him.........as Trump says "these are just bad, bad people...". You know that certainly could be a childish way of describing someone like that, but the whole world understands what it means. -------------   
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Posted By: Davesax1965
Date Posted: January 19 2020 at 03:23
Thanks for the bold type, don't think I'm going all nationalist and excluding the UK as well. The Context should also note that the UK electorate detested Tony Blair for getting us involved in Iraq. Bigger context. Since a bunch of nutcases flew two planes into the Twin Towers, a horrific action causing huge loss of life, the US has responded in a horrendous manner and killed an approximated 460-480,000 people in the Middle East (including 244,000 civilians) to try to quell an external terrorism threat which doesn't exist. They also spent an estimated 7 trillion dollars during the time and the net result is ? Nothing. Most US citizens are convinced that their country is a force for good in the world and the fact - that's fact above - is just ignored. Inconvenient truth. It just goes on and on and on and on, like Vietnam, another failed ideological war, or even the "war on drugs". There is no end to it. The world is sick of it. Unlike Vietnam, there is no mass internal dissent or protest and, as a result, a government presided over by perhaps the worst leader in US history - facing impeachment - gets away with carrying on with it. US nationalism seems to preclude any US citizen criticising the actions of their government in terms of foreign policy, it's all USA USA USA time. The collapse of the USSR lead to the US becoming the worlds' only superpower, and without a superpower enemy, the US military seems to have spent some time considering who to fight next and what the new cause is. In invading sovereign nations willy-nilly on the pretext of "terror", they seem to be behaving in the worst manner of, say, the British Empire or even the Soviet Union invading Afghanistan. And that's just foreign policy, never mind foreign economic policy. The US has utterly squandered any good will it received from the international community as a result of 9/11. What a detestable mess. Returning to the shootdown incident. It's a tragedy. Iran idiotically didn't close it's airspace at the time of the missile strikes. How foolish and regrettable. More dead.
The bigger picture is that - tragedy that it is - it's an unfortunately small tragedy when weighed against the bigger picture, not only of never ending war and dreadful civilian casualties but the tragedy of a nation such as the USA sliding into the worst excesses of Empires. For what ? ------------- |
Posted By: Davesax1965
Date Posted: January 19 2020 at 03:25
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More context. Shame on the UK for backing US policy up. ------------- |
Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: January 19 2020 at 11:05
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Shame on human beings for the fact that the history of humanity is really the history of war. A paradigm shift is way overdue but a close look at any gov't makes it seem miles away. This US citizen has never thought of the US as a "force for good". |