"Retro Prog"
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=121844
Printed Date: December 02 2024 at 00:16
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Topic: "Retro Prog"
Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Subject: "Retro Prog"
Date Posted: December 22 2019 at 18:01
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I know this is broad, but I've seen some criticisms and single star reviews of some retro prog bands/albums saying they are treading the waters of past greats or they're unoriginal. So what are your thoughts? Personally, I love retro prog and don't get some peoples problems. If some of these albums were recorded and produced note for note in the 70s they would likely be held as prog classics. So imo, some criticisms are silly. ------------- The sun has left the sky... ...Now you can close your eyes |
Replies:
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 22 2019 at 18:41
| Could you give some examples? |
Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Date Posted: December 22 2019 at 18:43
Wobbler, Jordsjo, Anglagard, Daal, Anekdoten, are probably the most notable ones, but I think all have their own unique sounds ------------- The sun has left the sky... ...Now you can close your eyes |
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:Posted By: ForestFriend
Date Posted: December 22 2019 at 19:00
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I don't really have a problem with it. I'm not a big fan of the term, though - it seems like a lot of people just look at the number of vintage keyboard sounds they use and dismiss it as retro prog. But if a band starts using hi-gain metal guitar sounds, or electronic synth stuff, wow, they're so new and original! Even though those sounds have been in use since the 80s... I remember people labeling All Traps On Earth as retro prog - although it doesn't quite sound like any one band out of the 70s. Sounds a bit like Anglagard (because they share members...), and even they don't really compose like many bands from the 70s either. They just use some of the same equipment. ------------- https://borealkinship.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My prog band - Boreal Kinship |
Posted By: YESESIS
Date Posted: December 22 2019 at 19:51
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I went with 'Generally don't like it with a few exceptions' and those of course are Spock's Beard and Saga. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: December 22 2019 at 20:21
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Love it. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: December 22 2019 at 22:09
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I can't seem to get enough of it. ------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: December 22 2019 at 22:41
| I don't care if it's retro, modern, classic, etc. If I like the music, the label is not important to me. |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: December 22 2019 at 22:42
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option 1 ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: dougmcauliffe
Date Posted: December 22 2019 at 22:46
I wholeheartedly agree with these sentiments ------------- The sun has left the sky... ...Now you can close your eyes |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: December 23 2019 at 01:27
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Apart from say, the Whirlwind by Transatlantic which I think represents a victory for the memorable over the aural memorabilia served up by the likes of Black Bonzo, Wobbler, Anglagard, the Samurai of Prog, Phideaux, Spock's Beard, Beardfish, Big Big Train, Anekdoten, the Flower Kings etc. Most of whom are but a pale imitation of what was borderline anaemic in the first place. Maybe it's my deep seated and prejudicial aversion to post modernism that makes me balk at much of this music. We no longer, many of us, believe in the idea of musical progress. All the more
reason, perhaps, to savor the music of those who did. (Kelefa Sanneh) ------------- 
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Posted By: Mormegil
Date Posted: December 23 2019 at 06:06
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No issue here . . . ------------- Welcome to the middle of the film. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: December 23 2019 at 06:30
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retro prog is usually very flattering to the ears (I enjoy a good part of it), but let's face it, most of it can't really live up the 70's stuff it's inspired upon. |
Posted By: judahbenkenobi
Date Posted: December 23 2019 at 06:49
I've tried so hard to like Wobbler and All Traps on Earth, but after a hundred spins can't just get over them.  So I wonder if it's the "sub-genre" of "retro-Prog" what I don't like. Because someone in a previous post mentioned Spock's Beard, but I don't find that to be retro. Maybe I would put The Flower Kings in that category, but not everything they play sounds retro. (And I like TFK)
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Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: December 23 2019 at 12:11
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Example of what is not retro prog: Änglagård is to Yes/Genesis as Shostakovich is to Brahms/Debussy Example of what is retro prog: Steve Unruh is to Jethro Tull as Mozart is to Haydn I love ALL of the above artists and their music! ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: December 23 2019 at 12:17
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I like it...most of it anyway....fan of Wobbler and Astra...though they haven't done anything for 7 years. Also like most of the ones above. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 23 2019 at 12:18
| I almost voted for the second option but really I don't think it's fair to say it can't compete with the classics. No other subgenre can either plus it's kind of irrelevant if it can or can't. So number one for me. |
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: December 23 2019 at 12:25
Your album reviews are the best! They're a masterclass in how to write an entertaining and informative review. Everyone here should read at least one of your reviews. Even if I don't always agree with your album reviews, I always enjoy reading what you have to say. Keep up the good work.
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Posted By: mathman0806
Date Posted: December 23 2019 at 12:57
| I am probably somewhere between options 1 and 2. I don't have any issue with bands doing "retro prog." I am not sure I like most of it. I don't hate most of it. I am just neutral obout most of it. For example, I don't find my prog listening to be any better or worse for having listened to Wobbler's "From Silence to Somewhere." |
Posted By: tamijo_II
Date Posted: December 23 2019 at 13:25
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"I like it but it cant compete with the classics" Lovely music those bands you mention, but can't find albums in there that would compete with the best from 70-75, especially considering what technical advantage they got over a 1974 production. ------------- Same person as this profile: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=22524" rel="nofollow - Tamijo |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: December 23 2019 at 13:26
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Option #1, no doubt. ------------- 
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Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: December 23 2019 at 16:57
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I actually don't like the idea of doing "retro" stuff, however I like some of these bands (Anekdoten!) because I don't consider them retro. OK, they borrow some elements from the past and they maybe won't win an innovation contest, which is fair enough, but at the end it's still their own music and can be appreciated on its own terms. Occasionally stuff shouts "retro" at me, and then I can do without it (some Big Big Train comes to mind, although I have heard them do more "autonomous" stuff as well). PS: Voted "other".  |
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: December 23 2019 at 20:50
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Nothing against it, bien au contraire. ------------- |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: December 23 2019 at 22:49
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I like some retro-prog and retro music generally, and some I don't. I used to be rather more disdainful of retro-prog and called it Gorp (regressive progressive rock). I can often like music that evokes music of the past, and some that even tries to convince one that it was made much earlier. I did a topic on retro music pretending to be of the past http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=121359" rel="nofollow - CLICK and was not surprised that others didn't find it interesting. Under the Prog umbrella, I like various retro-folk prog, retro-Krautrock, retro-psychedelic and retro-progressive electronic acts. I like Matt Berry's retro prog nods. I really like some modern retro acts that have a 60s to 70s loungey jazzy, exotica feel to them, and evoke people like Serge Gainsbourg. I'm probably not going to be so into ones that are trying to sound like classic Yes, or much symphonic/ "mainstream" Prog. For me the music of retro acts can sound just as accomplished as that which it is imitating, or evocative of, but that doesn't mean that I will hold it in as high regard as I do value innovation and progression. And in a way, much of my favourite music feels rather timeless, and other music I love for its place in time and can make me feel very nostalgic (even if evokes a time and place before I was born). I can really enjoy music that brings to mind another time, and some of my favourite music can feel both contemporary and retro. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: December 24 2019 at 01:38
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These is an area where people really get their panties in a bunch. One of the ideas of Progressive Rock Music is to make music that has strong comparisons with classical music. ELP , Yes , Tull and Genesis put down the foundation stones of the genre we love. No one made a rule that you couldn't do what they did. Progressive Music on the other hand is a whole different thing. Progressive Rock Music diverged from Progressive Music as early as 1972 in my view ( at least as far as those bands were concerned) . However they were so brilliant at what they did that none actually questions this! Close To The Edge was not really that progressive at all but it now considered the very epitomy of the greatest Progressive Rock Music made! The problem with so many so called Retro artists is not that they are copying (really who gives a sh*t) but more that they simply are not as good at it. I mean they really can't be can they?! The genre was created by musical genius and 100% inspiration. It's laughable to even think that Wobbler could be a valid replacement for Yes at their splendid best. Ludicrous. That said I enjoy a lot of retro prog including stuff that is generally sneered at such as Glass Hammer and some other bands but that's because I'm not hung up on the idea of originality. This has always been a doubtful idea in the first place. Music is something that evolves. It's not something that is invented by a few individuals.
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Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: December 24 2019 at 08:53
| I feel sorry for those who cannot get into "Retro" Prog. First of all, none of these so-called Retro bands sound anything like the greats from yesteryear. The Flower Kings do not sound like Yes. Big Big Train does not sound like Genesis. Secondly, the concept of "progression" needs refining. Most bands, past and present, utilize rock instruments and Western tonality (with chromatic and diatonic scales). Therefore the amount of "progression" possible (given those constraints) will diminish over time. Those acts in the late 60's and early 70's had it easy! Bruford refers to this as slack being pulled from a rope - there was a lot of slack to be picked up in 1969, not as much now. And finally, all music is subjective. What I like may not be what you like. And that's okay!!! You can be wrong about Wobbler and I can be wrong about Magma. |
Posted By: TCat
Date Posted: December 24 2019 at 10:03
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No issue with it as long as it is done well and not overly cheesy. I find the band Cheeto's Magazine to be one that really appeals to me with a mix of Styx at their best and Queen, but also a lot of unique sound. Their album "Amazingous" makes me very happy. One of the best of this past year. ------------- https://ibb.co/8x0xjR0" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: Snicolette
Date Posted: December 24 2019 at 11:42
------------- "Into every rain, a little life must fall." ~Tom Rapp |
Posted By: Upbeat Tango Monday
Date Posted: December 24 2019 at 12:36
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No issue at all. As a matter of fact, it's expected! As I've always said, prog rock is a music genre like any other, with its own parameters of internal logic. It has nothing to do with an artist or band changing styles or creating "something new" (whatever the f*ck that means...this genre is not about fashion of trendsetting) I've heard some *censored* calling Steve Wilson a prog master for releasing a 100% pop album. They don't get it, at all. Metal fans know when a release isn't metal enough, pop fans know when an artist changes genres...why can't prog fans understand this basic concept? Maybe we should start calling the genre Symph rock or whatever sub-label, in order to avoid speaking nonsense with a word that is misused and poorly understood in music, politics and life in general. Progression (regression as well) has nothing to do with linearity in time. Changes are not always progressive, nor are they a ladder, a straight line...Giving more power each day to the church/state will be seen as progressive by dim-witted fanatics, for instance...but I digress. ------------- Two random guys agreed to shake hands. Just Because. They felt like it, you know. It was an agreement of sorts...a random agreement. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: December 24 2019 at 12:41
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As usual, I find myself in agreement with Lewian, so I also voted "Other". When I still wrote reviews I came across albums that were so retro as to border on plagiarism (Wobbler's Rites at Dawn comes to mind), so, as a whole, I am not crazy about bands who reproduce a sound dating from over 40 years ago. However, there are exceptions. One thing that very few people mention is that "retro prog" does not exclusively mean "symphonic". A number of modern Canterbury bands are unabashedly retro - my fellow Italians The Winstons come to mind - and there are also retro Avant and jazz-rock bands. As I tend to like these three subgenres more than straightforward symphonic prog (the classics being the exception), I find their approach more to my taste - but there's no denying that, in many ways, they are as retro as Wobbler and Big Big Train, to name but two.
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: December 24 2019 at 14:57
Yeah, it sounds accurate about the so called Retro artists not being so good at copying. I mean, not all of them, of course. I believe this might be because the original prog bands were not trying to do prog, nor were they following a set formula for their music, they were just doing what they wanted to do. Now, those retro prog artists seem to have to follow certain aspects... they have to be long songs, they have to have long instrumental passages, they have to have odd time signatures, they have to have one or two (or more) epics... and so on. And that often makes their music forced and uninspired. I mean, all those aspects should be at the service of the music, if needed, and not the music at the service of the formula. |
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: December 25 2019 at 21:51
Other. I am, would be, and have been troubled by lack of originality. However I don't think the "waters of the past" have been treaded upon so thoroughly that there is no open territory left. ------------- A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now) |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: December 26 2019 at 03:54
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For me it boils down to the individual artist and how exactly they wield inspiration and certain wellknown musical gestures. I find the most recent Wobbler album to be almost like an ode to Yes ca 1973 and a damn fine one at that. I almost never think of Wobbler when spinning that album but must remind myself once in a while that it indeed isn’t Yes playing. Conversely, an act like Phideaux who has worn his influences on his sleeves ever since he started out never really sounds like any other artist than himself. Sure I pick up on different sections that sound like Floyd and so forth, but I am never in any doubt as to whom I am listening to. A combination of his vocals and melody phrasings over either the guitar or piano that does this imo. Two very different forms of ‘retro-prog’ and I rather dig both. It’s when the music turns formulaic and sterile where I turn away. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: December 26 2019 at 04:15
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AAMOF, the retro thing exists in all areas of rock (not just prog) and even in jazz The 80's were filled with 50's & 60's revivals (Stray Cats, FYC, the "new romantics", Bevis Frond, etc...) without being too "retro", but Lenny Kravitz was the first one to really go "retro", even taping his albums on 70's consoles. In jazz, there are still people doing Bop music ala 50's (good'ol' Marsalis), but jazz was all too often about purists anyways. Then there is the so-called "spiritual jazz" (that includes Shabaka Hutchings and Kamasi Washington) is total retro of late 60's and 70's jazz somewhere between Pharoah, Alice Coltrane and McCoy Tyner. In prog, the Swedish trilogy AnglaBerkDoten started the retro thing.
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: December 27 2019 at 01:51
The only band I've ever heard doing the retro thing as well as the seventies bands is Elephant9. One of the great issues with modern prog for me is that the drummers are not as good (although in many cases they are good and acceptable nevertheless) . Elephant9 have bucked the trend. When I first heard them I thought I was listening to a young Carl Palmer on the drums. That is an extreme rarity. |
Posted By: thief
Date Posted: February 23 2020 at 23:56
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Which bands are retro prog? If it's Wobbler and co., I'm fine with it. Would rather listen to Wobbler than 80s-00s Neoprog, I guess that's enough praise.
Agree 100% with a rope thing.
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 24 2020 at 00:18
| ^ yeah makes sense, there hasn't been any great innovation in rock music since the seventies but what I actually like about the 90's on beyond is that there are bands that will embrace several musical influences and not just one or two. The hilarious aspect of the thing though is that unless one of those influences is Yes, ELP or Genesis then it's not prog! |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: February 24 2020 at 02:16
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I like a few bands
Spocks Beard TFK Karmakanic Magic Pie Magenta Presto Ballet The Watch Anekdoten The Tangent Airbag
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Posted By: LAM-SGC
Date Posted: February 24 2020 at 04:00
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I love retro. A lot of the current Swedish bands I like, several of them being friend's bands, have done it in the right way in my view, and have recreated the true underground feel of 67-73 by combining psych, hippy, hard rock, space, acid music. My fav at the moment is a Swedish retro band called Lykantropi, who sound and look like a mix of Jefferson Airplane, Fairport Convention, Jethro Tull and Uriah Heep. Another great current 70s retro band is Hällas. Big Elf of course. |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: February 24 2020 at 12:15
| Finnish Sammal is ok, but mostly I love much more the original sixties/seventies prog. |
Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: February 24 2020 at 12:50
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Music that's pleasant to my ears is what I'm looking for. Whether that's a modern band aping the past or something fresh and new (as new anything can be in rock music today) then it matters not. I like what I like. ------------- We all dwell in an amber subdomain, amber subdomain, amber subdomain. My face IS a maserati |
Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: February 24 2020 at 13:56
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The reproduction of epic bombastic prog has got to be the future! Go "one beyond your show"...Im still waiting for the ten hour epic of epics... ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: Mirakaze
Date Posted: February 24 2020 at 15:24
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I listen to a lot of contemporary music but very little of it is symphonic prog. I'm not a fan of the Flower Kings, Transatlantic or Spock's Beard. I think Änglagård, Wobbler and All Traps On Earth are pleasant enough but I don't go out of my way to listen to them; I can't put my finger on what it is exactly but it just seems to me like there's a certain spark missing in their music. |