My question is who would be your "big six" bands that started releasing material after 1979. 

(The post 70's prog era.) 

First guess, though I think this will be a lot more spread out than the 70's.

Marillion

IQ

Dream Theater

Spock's Beard

Dream Theater

Djam Karet

After Crying

Pineapple Thief

Anekdoten

Really, really hard to pick only six.

Big Big Train

Frost*

The Aristocrats

Thank You Scientist

Riverside

Others....

Mike Keneally

Echolyn

Sanguine Hum

Thieves' Kitchen

Haken

Spock's Beard

Dream Theater

Anathema

Anekdoten

Airbag

Anubis

Anglagard

Arena

... to be continued.

My personal list would probably be something like...

Cardiacs - Talk Talk - Swans - North Sea Radio Orchestra - Tortoise - Porcupine Tree.

If I think of an "official big 6" defined by innovation, influence, impact, and some kind of centrality to prog, Porcupine Tree would still be there. Cardiacs and Talk Talk tick all boxes except centrality (what ever that is); even Tortoise and Swans don't seem to be too far off. Anyway, I'd probably not vote against one of Dream Theater or Opeth, Anekdoten, IQ. I love iamthemorning and After Crying, but they're probably also not so central to the genre. Marillion is accepted grudgingly. I'm somewhat surprised Mars Volta, Tool and Radiohead haven't been nominated yet, but fair enough, they won't tick centrality either, except Mars Volta may, just about. I'd like to see post/math rock represented and if you don't want Talk Talk or Tortoise, Goodspeed You Black Emperor, Sigur Ros, and Battles could also be contenders. Mr. Bungle is also super awesome.

There's a sad single sentence commentary on prog, post-1980.

Top 100 Albums (2nd sort by # of rankings)

Porcupine Tree / S Wilson - 5

Opeth - 5

Marillion - 3

Riverside - 3

Cardiacs - 3

Dream Theater - 2

Rush - 2

Anglagard - 2

Pain Of Salvation - 2

Phideaux - 2

Porcupine Tree / S Wilson - 10183

Opeth - 6199

Dream Theater - 5737

Marillion - 5368

Rush - 4762

Riverside - 4110

Anglagard - 2738

Pain Of Salvation - 2362

Phideaux - 1788

Big Big Train - 1751

Marillion

IQ

Spock's Beard

Porcupine Tree

The Flower Kings

Ozric Tentacles (I'm probably the only one on here with them on here for this list)

Honorable mentions:

Glass Hammer (though I'm not much of a fan)

Big Big Train

Anglagard

Anekdoten

Echolyn

Pendragon

Arena

Riverside

Dream Theater

Opeth

Dream Theater

Fates Warning

Spock's Beard

The first five come very easily but I had to think about Opeth a bit. They cover the bases of a heavier prog approach and also are Swedish and there needs to be at least one band from the region. I would dismiss Anglagard's claims because they only have one important album.

Marillion

IQ

Dream Theater

Spocks Beard

Porcupine Tree

Opeth

IQ

Ayreon

Marillion

Dream Theater

It Bites

Frost*

These would be my choices, as I love them all and know them well.  There are others I don't know, or don't know as well, which would undoubtedly compete with them.  Transatlantic come close, maybe Big Big Train. Arena, Pendragon......

Oh, nearly forgot Devin Townsend!  He's definitely pushing that top 6!  Seeing him tomorrow night in the Cardiff Uni Student's Union (5 mins walk from work!)

 

Saleswise/popularity-wise, this would appear to be it.

Those would look a lot like my lists.

I'm not seriously proposing Cardiacs as they are too left field for most of the people here, but at least they have 3 top 100 post 79 albums (36, 62, & 71). Flower Kings for all the love have zero top 100 albums. I have a had time thinking a band can be Big 6 with zero top 100 albums. They only have 1 album with more than 600 ratings and none with more than 1000. Opeth on the other hand have 5 top 100 albums and 7 with more than 1000 ratings.

My actual list is

Marillion

Riverside

of which I'm actually only a fan of Anglagard & PT.

I misread the OP, Rush had a lot a great albums post 79 whereas all the 70's Big 6 don't have much post 79. I'd probably throw in Riverside.

I don't think it's fair to exclude TFK from a modern big six list just because they don't have any albums in the top 100. Neither do Spock's Beard I don't think. Most albums that make the top 100(probably at least 70 percent) are from the seventies so there's not much to chose from and many of the more modern ones are metallish because they tend to be the most popular(ie Opeth, DT and even later PT). 

I filtered the top 100 down to albums from 80 forward, they still don't have an album that makes it. Spocks Beards highest rated album comes in at 100 on that 80's forward top 100. I just checked the top 250 post 1980 albums and there isn't one Flower Kings album in that list. Lowest rating in top 250 is 4.09, top FK album is 4.06 and that's the latest one, the other highest rated album is 4.04.

Did you filter out the prog metal?

He could also only look at bands beginning with Sp or Fl...

So, in alphabetical order:

Dream Theater

Marillion

Porcupine Tree/Steven Wilson

Radiohead

Talk Talk

I realize it's cheating but at least TFK make it in. I think if you look at their peers who are under the same category they probably do pretty good. There's a lot of people on  here who think TFK are derivative(same could be said for SB)but they do have more ratings than a lot of newer bands. I think during the 90's and early 2000's they were one of the key bands carrying the torch. I admit I may very well be behind the game so it's quite possible that they aren't currently viewed as important as they once were. Still, I think they are an important band in prog's history and haven't been as forgotten as some other bands. I could say the same for Ozric Tentacles though but there's a lot more people on here who are fans of or even know about TFK than OT. 

I prefer OT over TFK. For me, it was about first impressions. I heard a couple of OT songs on a prog radio show in the early 90's and it stuck. I got the albums Strangitude and Jurassic Shift. Both of which I still play. With TFK, I got a recommendation in '98 or '99 and got Stardust We Are. I thought it was well played but something about it didn't stick with me. Rarely have played it since. Every few years, I see it in my CD case and give it a try. 

Nogbad_The_Bad wrote: I agree with your top 3 and would argue you can't leave out Opeth given their 5 top 100 albums and 7 albums with more than 1000 ratings.  5th and 6th would be up for grabs for me.

Ozrics are actually a good example, I like them a lot, they've got a bunch of albums in the high three's and a couple in the low 4's and most have several hundred ratings. Similar case to TFC's & SB. Personally I'd never put them in a Big 6 as they are pretty niche.

P.S. Änglagård may have only three important albums (as opposed to the "one" somebody mentioned), but their members have contributed to some other amazing albums and bands. 

P.P.S. If Steven Wilson were connect to or were to replace Porcupine Tree, that would be okay, too.

Steven Wilson/Porcupine Tree

Marillion

Dream Theater

Opeth

Big Big Train

1) Marillion

2) Talk Talk

3) Tori Amos

4) Spock's Beard

5) Swans

6) Dream Theater

Hmmm. Riverside look good when going through lists and ratings, but I haven't heard any enthusiasm about them here on the forum or elsewhere (although I might not look in the right places), as for the other five. So I think they should be replaced. I'd bring in Cardiacs instead. 

Take out IQ (not that there're bad) and insert Big Big train, you've got it.

Anglagard's only important album is Hybris albeit a monster. The more recent album was just a poor copy of it and showed zero progression in 20 odd years. All Traps On Earth though was a brilliant album and if released as Anglagard that would be different.

Personally I would love to include Par Lindh Project as the first 3 albums are all great ( and different) . But it would be a stretch admittedly.

The case for IQ is strong and they have endured incredibly well. The latest is one of their very best but you also have The Wake , Ever and The Road Of Bones on top of that.

The Flower Kings are important and I am going to see them on Sunday so I like them to some extent but the lack of any truly signature albums bothers me. Stardust We Are and Unfold The Future are okay but there is just too much filler for my liking. 

If we have a top six prog musicians post 1979 (and ignoring the fact that Kaipa were going in the seventies!) then Stolte would be in there.

Roine Stolte

Nick D'Virgilio

Jordan Rudess

John Jowitt

Mikael Akerfeldt

Steven Wilson

 

I had them just outside the top six based on rankings, they should certainly be in the discussion.

AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: A prog website(such as progressive ears) with users that doesn't use this website won't have the ratings on here as a reference on here so they obviously would not agree with the criterion you guys are using. But in my admittedly stubborn opinion these are the bands that should be on there: TFK,SB, OT, PT, IQ and Marillion. For me prog metal would be a separate list. If Opeth do a few more less metal and more prog rockish albums they could easily go on the list too. BBT and Pendragon should also be considered contenders. I won't deny the importance of the bands on the above lists and you guys are doing it very methodical so your lists are probably more definitive but hey we all have our own opinions.  Oh yeah, I forgot Anglagard. They are definitely a contender. It's too bad it can only be six bands. I like Djam Karet too but they are probably even more forgotten than Ozric Tentacles.

Don't you think such a list should represent the variety of prog genres? One can do separate lists for all kinds of stuff, but a "big six" from my point of view would make more sense if it'd represent a wider spectrum including let's say prog metal and the like, math/post rock, and what went on in RIO from 1980. Do we have bands that started post 1979 that cover remotely as much ground as the very eclectic King Crimson or Jethro Tull, say? If not, it surely shouldn't all be Neo or Symphonic...

I was going to point out the same thing, if the genre was limited to bands like TFK, SB, IQ, Marillion, PT I would be extremely bored very quickly but that's my personal tastes for ya.

Not necessarily. The big six list represents who is the most popular and influential(but mostly most well known)and as such the most well known is primarily from the symph prog genre. Yes, Genesis, ELP, PF, etc. There's no zeuhl, rpi, avant, rio, etc in there. The same thing with most of the second tier lists on here. If we tried to be more diverse then you would have lesser known bands which is all well and good but isn't fair to the bands who have had more impact so it's like you are deliberately spreading things out just to be fair. That list would be something like: Genesis, Henry Cow, Hawkwind, Le Orme, Uriah Heep, Soft Machine, etc. That would be all well and good but then it would leave out some very important(actually some of the most important bands). So, in my opinion it's best to have separate lists for each subgenres if we want to accentuate diversity within the prog rock genre.

Obviously six bands can't represent everything, and obviously a compromise has to be struck between innovation and influence, popularity, and covering a wide range. I wouldn't agree with "mostly most well known" - no band should be "big 6" that is purely derivative, no matter how much they sell and what probablity "the person in the street" has knowing them. The first "big 6" are a bit too Symph oriented maybe but PF have done psychedelic, Yes, Genesis and ELP have done Crossover, KC and JT really have done lots of things. Overall much is covered even without the likes of Henry Cow and Le Orme. 

no way is Symphony X second tier when everyone knows who they are in the metal community, and they're well respected.

AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: ^Symphony X are definitely not first tier prog metal. Fates Warning aren't even first tier. First tier would be Tool, Dream Theater, Opeth and Queensryche. But if symphony X were first tier then we would have to list a bunch of other bands too.

As far as popularity is concerned, DT, Opeth and Tool are more popular than Symphony X. SX are also important as they have influnced many other bands (Adagio, Artension, Pagan's Mind, Kamelot to name a few).

I've been listening to progressive metal since the 90s and an important band was Shadow Gallery. But with their vocalist passing and releasing one more album (10 years ago), they became a cult band these days.

Pain of Salvation blew everyone's mind, mine included late 90s. I wish they were more known. They are influential, too.

Queensryche were great and important for a while, but after 1994, they were average, even mediocre at some point, to godawful (Dedicated to Chaos). They were lucky to start over with Todd and they are doing well now.

As for Fates Warning, they should have been huge, they were influential (even DT admited to that).

Yeah, I was going to mention Shadow Gallery. I also meant to mention Voivoid. Crimson Glory, Watchtower and Savatage should be mentioned as important early prog metal bands too. 

Yeah, Queensryche were important then dropped off but I was going more by over all album sales which ultimately doesn't really mean a lot. As far as influential what about Rainbow and Ygwie Malmsteen? Would there be neoclassical without them? Maybe not Rainbow though although they were important in the development of prog metal I suppose.

Opeth

Riverside

Phideaux

Anekdoten 

Beardfish

That's a good list if you are deliberately jumping over the 80's and 90's(with the exception of Anekdoten and maybe Opeth who were around back then). With the exception of Porcupine Tree none of those bands are more important than Marillion, IQ, Anglagard, The Flower Kings or Spock's Beard especially from a historical perspective but Opeth certainly rivals PT these days in terms of influence and popularity. 

If you go by Rate Your Music's top ratings it would seem more like this:

The Mars Volta

Rush

Tool

Porcupine Tree

Opeth

and i can't argue with that

other worthy candidates though

Dream Theater

Anglagard

Univers Zero

Cardiacs

i didn't read through all of the above so not sure if anyone has mentioned it this way

If it says "big six", I'm thinking a bit popular, known and also influential.

Marillion/IQ

Anglagard/Spock's Beard/TFK

Dream Theater

Tool

Porcupine Tree

GY!BE/Sigur Ros/Explosions in the Sky

I've also heard people say The Mars Volta aren't really Neo-Prog when I've included them in my Neo-Prog polls.

@AFlowerKingCrimson - who says TMV are not progressive? Anyway, the two other classification for them are experimetal rock (does them justice I think) and post-hardcore (don't know much about this genre).

@Psychedelic Paul - you're still trolling with TMV being neo-prog? Aren't you bored yet? Everyone else is. Just check how many people disagreed in your neo-prog threads. 

It's okay to disagree with me. It's all good fun. Having disagreements over prog is all part of what makes Prog Archives such a great place to be.

If I were the only one disagreeing, that would not be a problem, but I'm not, many disagreed.

That is why I think you are trolling with your neo-prog threads. If not , it means it's a situation in which you think you are right and everyone else is wrong or you simply do not know (or understand) what neo-prog is.

You’re right, but its a list of six of my personal favs. 

Well to some there's a difference between prog and progressive. Yes, Genesis, KC, SB, PT, ELP, Rush, PF, etc is prog. Progressive might be stuff that is not typical prog rock. Maybe more experimental or stuff that is more literally progressive as opposed to bands who are trying to sound like old prog. TMV are very progressive but not typical prog if you know what I mean. Kind of the same way that krautrock, post rock, electronic and fusion are progressive but not prog rock(or Prog rock with the capital p).

I get your perspective but the "Neo Prog" sound, as governed here on PA, is, to my mind & ears, one of the easier ones to distinguish! The problem comes when you hear bands that are obviously inspired by and/or imitating in a "retro-" style but not using the lush, romantic soundscapes used by Trick of the Tail/Wind & Wuthering Genesis--like ELP, Camel, Yes, VDGG, Gentle Giant, or Crimson imitators. Technically, these should also be "neo progressive" bands--or perhaps "retro-prog" bands--but are not often classified as such. What is an innately discerning, language-using human being to do?  

Roine Stolt (Kaipa, The Flower Kings, Hasse Bruniusson, The Tangent, Transatlantic, Karmakanic, The Sea Within, et al.) 

Steven Wilson (Re-mastering of so many old classics, producer, engineer, & mastering of many modern releases, Porcupine Tree, No-Man, Jansen/Barbieri/Karn, Bass Communion, Blackfield, Storm Corrosion, six solo studio albums, et al.)

Mikael Åkerfeldt (Opeth, Ghost, Storm Corrosion, Devin Townsend, O.S.I. Insahn, Bloodbath, Katatonia, Edge of Sanity, et al.)

Francesco Zago (founder of AltrOck/Fading Records, Yugen, Not a Good Sign, Spaitklang, Empty Days, et al.)

Omar Rodríguez-López (four At The Drive-In albums, nearly 50 solo albums, 14 The Mars Volta releases, John Frusciante, and engineering help on many others)

Mariuz Duda (10 Riverside albums, Indukti, five Lunatic Soul releases)

I would argue for the first five without question and then leave it up to you to decide from among the other three as who belongs in a "Big Six"

Good point(s)! Though I'm ignorant as to what Mike Portnoy has done other than DT and Transatlantic.

A lot of stuff. For prog Neal Morse Band and Flying Colors. Also, sons of Apollo(more prog metal though). I'd have to look it up myself to discover what else but I know he has done other stuff(but I think mostly metal and rock; I think I(we)covered most of his pure prog stuff).

I agree with both of your posts on this.....to me IQ and some others are symph prog ....never really understood the neo prog genre that much. Most of the neo prog I own sounds like just a newer version of symph prog.

I like his hard rock project with Richie Kotzen - The Winery Dogs.

I like Flying Colors.

I don't like Sons of Apollo though, very bland and generic.

As I've said before, Neo-Prog to me is a chronological definition, meaning any post-1970's prog bands, but I don't mind at all if PA members disagree with that definition. It doesn't mean I'm right and everyone else is wrong. Far from it. It's just a difference of opinion that's all. That's just the way we used to categorise prog when I used to edit my own music site. We had just two primary genres for Prog-Rock:- Progressive Rock and Neo-Prog, divided between classic 1970's prog bands in the Progressive Rock section and modern post-1970's prog bands in the Neo-Prog section. I'm not necessarily saying that was ideal or correct, but it made things a whole lot less complicated. In total though, across the whole music site, we had 20 primary genres and 200 sub-genres of music, so we weren't exactly short of music genres to choose from. If I was running the site now though, I'd add most of the prog sub-genres that are on Prog Archives.  For a specialist prog site like ProgArchives, I think it's wonderful to have all of these additional prog categories here on PA, some of which I'd never even heard of before I arrived here last September. I used to think RIO was Prog-Rock from Brazil, but I know differently now.

 

 

 

Neo prog started as New Symphonic prog. back in the eighties only the likes of ELP, Yes , Genesis were still recognised as 'prog' so IQ, Marillion , Twelth Night and Pallas were the new prog bands (or Neo to make it sound a bit fancy) . There wasn't any other prog imo. 

The 90's brought a raft of retro symphonic bands such as Par Lindh Project , Anglagard and Anekdoten who were coming more from an 'art rock' back background rather than the stylistic approach adopted by the eighties prog bands. There is a clear difference but its all putting things in boxes as usual! Generally it could all be considered Symphonic as M27Barney suggests.

I also think that music freed itself up to some extent post 80's. The eighties was dominated by MTV and corporate interest. 90's and onwards a lot of people in music just did what the f**k they wanted. It was and still is largely very healthy but there are still bands that will follow the Yes, Genesis approach to the letter and therefore those can be clearly identified as Neo Prog. It can be tricky though defining a band like Big Big Train who apparently sit in the internal limbo of Crossover Prog never to be recognised as a fully grown up prog band. I'm not sure what they did to deserve that but hey ho.