Global Climate Change Camp
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=120668
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Topic: Global Climate Change Camp
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Subject: Global Climate Change Camp
Date Posted: August 03 2019 at 08:35
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Scores of celebrities and the rich have arrived in Sicily for a Google conference. They came in 114 private jets and a flotilla of super yachts. As the party drew to a close on Thursday, newspaper columns and social media were awash with criticism for the three-day, billionaire-packed event — which saw more than 200 of the world’s richest and most famous names take private jets to the Italian island and stay on mega yachts while also talking about stopping climate change. 114 flights from Los Angeles to Palermo, Italy, where Camp guests landed, would spew an estimated 100,000 kilograms of CO2 into the air. Katy Perry, Obama, Orlando Bloom and DiCaprio were among the guests. Logic- Either these celebrities believe in Global Warming, or they don't. What were they thinking? If they don't believe, then the answer is obvious. They're narcissistic elite, believing they can fool you, while partying like there's no tomorrow! If they believe in Global Warming, then why fly pollution spewing private jets to a Google Global Warming Conference? If they passionately believe the Earth is in danger, then what are they thinking? Can they be that shallow and tone deaf? Are they psychopaths? Which is it? Do they believe in Global warming or NOT? https://pagesix.com/2019/08/01/googles-extravagant-climate-change-camp-mocked-as-party-for-entitled-fools/ |
Replies:
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 03 2019 at 10:36
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One can believe in lots of things and still act in a way that is detrimental to one's beliefs/ cause. Perhaps, they might have video-conferenced instead as that would have less environmental impact, but that might not so easily have reached the people they wanted to get on board. For me being vegan would be morally virtuous, yet one will find me eating cheese and meat. I may be a hypocrite and immoral, but that doesn't mean that I'd be diagnosed with psychopathy which refer to specific psychological traits. I worry about anthropogenic climate change, but I still drive a Honda Civic that runs on petrol, I still pollute and buy throw away plastic products despite once starting on a campaign against plastic packaging. And I had children despite worrying about overpopulation, I guess I'm a sh*t. |
Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: August 03 2019 at 12:56
| It really is hard to beat a liquid hydrocarbon fuel for heating value. If you drive electric, it depends on how your electricity is generated. If it is derived from nuclear okay but you now have to deal with all of those spent fuel rods. If it is from coal or natural gas, then you are just moving the emissions to a different place, although natural gas is cleaner because methane is packed with hydrogen. Wind is intermittent. Even with biofuels, you have to be careful with how intensive you are growing the plants. Hey, that fertilizer, pesticide, and fuel to harvest must come from somewhere. And, you've got to worry about removing oxygen from the biooil because it makes it lose heating value, as well as being corrosive and unstable. So, it is a difficult issue with no real silver bullet, but rather a basket of options depending on your locality, and driving a Honda Civic is a pretty conscientious choice methinks. I also own one. I also try to eat less meat (at one point I was eating no meat but then I moved to a place that knows how to cook meat), and eat more vegetables. Beans, beans!! Video-conferencing is a great idea, too. I do that with my band mate. I think you're on the right track. |
Posted By: AZF
Date Posted: August 03 2019 at 13:17
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Are the figures for the carbon footprint of the military available? That is the biggest kick. All media about how much one baby and one flight does and still a piss against the moon compared to the Jets and Tanks on training exercises alone let alone active duty. This "lower your standard of living to save the environment" message has clearly been set to make unequal as the well off will try and always bring it down to percentages. There is something in reducing footprint and we'd be first to complain at flytipping etc, but if it's humanity saving the planet, every part of it has to play it's part. As no land is being distributed this isn't happening. All talk and whatever actions may come (too late anyway) it will not affect the attendees or their immediate families. |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: August 03 2019 at 15:02
I'm wondering if they believe it. Me? I don't necessarily believe the Earth is heating in a dangerous way. Antarctica recently set a record for the most ICE EVER! Where I live...Having coldest summer since 1973. Isn't carbon good for forests and plants? The Earth has been much warmer in far past, then it is now. There are temperature cycle 400 years and longer. Even if Global Warming is bad and man has caused it ALL, how do we know the government won't steal carbon tax dollars. Me? I ride a bicycle. I spend about 1500 miles a year in a car. That's it.
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AZF wrote:Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 03 2019 at 15:24
^ "The coldest summer since 1973", ...no need to study long range weather patterns over decades and centuries, one year is all you need.  ------------- Help the victims of the russian invasion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
Posted By: ForestFriend
Date Posted: August 03 2019 at 15:50
Water is great for you too, but it's not so good for your health when someone is holding your head underwater. ------------- https://borealkinship.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My prog band - Boreal Kinship |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: August 03 2019 at 16:09
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At first I thought this article was a hoax, but this event has been reported by a variety of sites. Global warming is quite a trendy theme, so Google organized an event about it and invited a bunch of celebs to tinkle tinkle over it, a banal travesty of Bilderberg, which some of Google's top level mucky-mucks have seen from the inside. 114 of those celebs were setting the jets for a fashionable chat about how to save the world, most of them without any capability to handle the subject, in the beautiful surroundings of Agrigento or Segesta. The good news is: what these people add to global warming, even if it involves a 5-digit number of tons of CO2, is negligible. Yet I think I am growing a tiny bit of respect for Gretel Thunberg, who tends to practise what she preaches.
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 03 2019 at 18:37
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I spent ten years in college learning biology and ecological issues before i came to the conclusion it's all rigged. If you trace back the educational system in the US and Canada it emerged from the Prussian model of thought control which was the proto-model of Nazi-ism. The elites of the world decided a long time ago that they would actaully destroy the environment so that they could usher in a new world order under the guise of saving the planet from environmental catastrophe much as they have the ultimate false flag of a hostile alien invasion up their sleeves. The whole climate change issue has become nothing more than a profit driven carbon based money making scheme. I've met my share of souless millionaires who are playing this game. If one is to actually delve into the research it becomes apparent quite quickly that it's all a sham. Not that the climate is changing but how it is being sold to us, the public. But of course investigative research means dealing with unconfortable emotional responses, time away from alcohol and other drugs of choice and actually wrapping one's mind around the possibilities that evil not only exists but has the upper hand in the world at all levels. Denial of reality is always much easier than admitting one has been duped. Been there, done that, moved on. All the better for it.
-------------  https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: twseel
Date Posted: August 03 2019 at 23:46
As for Sillypuppy, I still was planning to respond to your post in the other thread but I haven't been home in the past few days, would it be alright if I quote your response from there to this thread later for further discussion? So far neither of you are telling me any new talking points so it should be fun. ------------- 
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Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: August 04 2019 at 02:50
Correct, prepare to be called a conspiracy theorist, downvoted, and criticized by people whose entire arguments are built around appeals to authority (versus thinking for themselves and working it out), moving the goal posts, and arguing mutually exclusive concepts as compatible. My degree and continued education is in philosophy, and I'm not using hyperbole when I say the majority of people walking, voting, and reproducing have no understanding of epistemology (how we know what we know, and how to actually prove that knowledge is valid), how to actually test the veracity of claims, and thus simply conclude someone else with money is doing the right research/has the answers. People do not understand how to reason anymore. The world is infinitely more complex and "rigged" than the average person will avail themselves the genuine reason to perceive clearly, let alone accept and admit on a deep emotion level (I.E. the part that actually matters and creates change on the personal level). You know the person you're "debating with" has no leg to stand on when they start throwing ad hominem attacks, violating reason while simultaneously claiming truth, and/or refuse to acknowledge the root assertions and presumptions from which they are (most often cluelessly) trying to logically reason. My main point being, if there were (and there definitely are, folks) conspiracies running rampant, the average person is so mentally out of shape they can't tell an apple from an orange when it comes to the application of critical thinking and reasoning, they are the last person in line to have ANY say as to what the hell is going on, for real, in this insane world. Armchair quarterbacks don't actually have experience on the field. It's so easy to trick people using basic psychology; this is why most things are written at an 8th grade level, people are dense and need sh*t spelled out (literally) for them for marketing to have any efficacy. The average IQ is 100. You think those same people are going to have the intelligence and gumption(let alone the focus) to question mainstream scientific claims, and have well structured research to back up their counter claims? Most people can't even take control of their diet and fitness on a regular basis - and that directly impacts their daily lives, health, and longetivity. You think they give a sh*t about longterm, deep thinking-based questions and solutions...and then actually ACT on them and implement them? I'm reminded of the time I sold phones one summer between gigs: Everyone is using phones all day, and there are actually people, despite using their phone all day, whom still manage to lock themselves out of the phone they are staring at all day, and not understand how or why. This is not a joke. Then, they actually have a person on staff, being paid by the hour, to "solve" the problem of already-clueless and inept people being somehow worse than they already are. That makes MONEY, though. LOTS OF MONEY!!! It also reinforces the illusion of demand for stupid sh*t, because inept people are in abundance, and the more products and services that distract them from thinking straight for more than three seconds, the better! People screaming "The science is settled!!!" are the least scientific, directly assisting in the continued propagation of bullsh*t arguments and philosophy, and are the most corrosive to the advancement of any sort of future society, of which, I'm gradually losing hope of any sort of positive outcome for. So, you're spot on, SP.
------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: August 04 2019 at 03:20
Ahem. I suggest you read this: Sea ice surrounding Antarctica reached a new record high extent this year, covering more of the southern oceans than it has since scientists began a long-term satellite record to map sea ice extent in the late 1970s. The upward trend in the Antarctic, however, is only about a third of the magnitude of the rapid loss of sea ice in the Arctic Ocean. The new Antarctic sea ice record reflects the diversity and complexity of Earth’s environments, said NASA researchers. Claire Parkinson, a senior scientist at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center, has referred to changes in sea ice coverage as a microcosm of global climate change. Just as the temperatures in some regions of the planet are colder than average, even in our warming world, Antarctic sea ice has been increasing and bucking the overall trend of ice loss. “The planet as a whole is doing what was expected in terms of warming. Sea ice as a whole is decreasing as expected, but just like with global warming, not every location with sea ice will have a downward trend in ice extent,” Parkinson said. Since the late 1970s, the Arctic has lost an average of 20,800 square miles (53,900 square kilometers) of ice a year; the Antarctic has gained an average of 7,300 square miles (18,900 sq km). On Sept. 19 this year, for the first time ever since 1979, Antarctic sea ice extent exceeded 7.72 million square miles (20 million square kilometers), according to the National Snow and Ice Data Center. The ice extent stayed above this benchmark extent for several days. The average maximum extent between 1981 and 2010 was 7.23 million square miles (18.72 million square kilometers). The single-day maximum extent this year was reached on Sept. 20,
according to NSIDC data, when the sea ice covered 7.78 million square
miles (20.14 million square kilometers). This year's five-day average
maximum was reached on Sept. 22, when sea ice covered 7.76 million
square miles (20.11 million square kilometers), according to NSIDC. This year, Antarctic sea ice reached a record maximum extent while the Arctic reached a minimum extent in the ten lowest since satellite records began. Why are these trends going in opposite directions? A warming climate changes weather patterns, said Walt Meier, a research scientist at Goddard. Sometimes those weather patterns will bring cooler air to some areas. And in the Antarctic, where sea ice circles the continent and covers such a large area, it doesn’t take that much additional ice extent to set a new record. “Part of it is just the geography and geometry. With no northern barrier around the whole perimeter of the ice, the ice can easily expand if conditions are favorable,” he said. Researchers are investigating a number of other possible explanations as well. One clue, Parkinson said, could be found around the Antarctic Peninsula – a finger of land stretching up toward South America. There, the temperatures are warming, and in the Bellingshausen Sea just to the west of the peninsula the sea ice is shrinking. Beyond the Bellingshausen Sea and past the Amundsen Sea, lies the Ross Sea – where much of the sea ice growth is occurring. That suggests that a low-pressure system centered in the Amundsen Sea could be intensifying or becoming more frequent in the area, she said – changing the wind patterns and circulating warm air over the peninsula, while sweeping cold air from the Antarctic continent over the Ross Sea. This, and other wind and lower atmospheric pattern changes, could be influenced by the ozone hole higher up in the atmosphere – a possibility that has received scientific attention in the past several years, Parkinson said.“The winds really play a big role,” Meier said. They whip around the continent, constantly pushing the thin ice. And if they change direction or get stronger in a more northward direction, he said, they push the ice further and grow the extent. When researchers measure ice extent, they look for areas of ocean where at least 15 percent is covered by sea ice. While scientists have observed some stronger-than-normal pressure systems – which increase winds – over the last month or so, that element alone is probably not the reason for this year’s record extent, Meier said. To better understand this year and the overall increase in Antarctic sea ice, scientists are looking at other possibilities as well. Melting ice on the edges of the Antarctic continent could be leading to more fresh, just-above-freezing water, which makes refreezing into sea ice easier, Parkinson said. Or changes in water circulation patterns, bringing colder waters up to the surface around the landmass, could help grow more ice. Snowfall could be a factor as well, Meier said. Snow landing on thin ice can actually push the thin ice below the water, which then allows cold ocean water to seep up through the ice and flood the snow – leading to a slushy mixture that freezes in the cold atmosphere and adds to the thickness of the ice. This new, thicker ice would be more resilient to melting. “There hasn’t been one explanation yet that I’d say has become a consensus, where people say, ‘We’ve nailed it, this is why it’s happening,’” Parkinson said. “Our models are improving, but they’re far from perfect. One by one, scientists are figuring out that particular variables are more important than we thought years ago, and one by one those variables are getting incorporated into the models.”For Antarctica, key variables include the atmospheric and oceanic conditions, as well as the effects of an icy land surface, changing atmospheric chemistry, the ozone hole, months of darkness and more. “Its really not surprising to people in the climate field that not every location on the face of Earth is acting as expected – it would be amazing if everything did,” Parkinson said. “The Antarctic sea ice is one of those areas where things have not gone entirely as expected. So it’s natural for scientists to ask, ‘OK, this isn’t what we expected, now how can we explain it?’” Note the passage I bolded; it appears to be the most likely explanation to me. But of course research still continues. -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 04 2019 at 07:15
While i whole-heartedly believe in the scientific process, many have turned it into a religion which is now called scienticism where the Rothchild / Rockerfeller funded big league scientists are the new high priests that we bow to. The separation of science and spirituality is actually sort of a new phenomenon that was ramped up in the western world especially with Darwin's theories in order to justify European colonization and conquering the "inferior ones." All the dumbing down has been systematically planned by the black magicians who rule the world. A better term for black magician would probably be dark psychologist but it has been said that they do indeed summon demons to do their bidding through complex rituals and blood sacrifices which dates back to antiquity actually. The problem with science these days is that it is a one dimensional discipline and therefore only really studies one onion peel layer. This has begun to change with quantum mechanics and far reaching scientists like Rupert Sheldrake whose morphogenic field theories resonate with me. Yes, everything is manufactured to keep humanity at a lower frequency which is well below the 1% who fully understand the occult principles of natural cosmic law and they use every weapon they have to keep us apathetic, unhealthy and uninterested in taking back our power. Unfortunately it really does take years to understand how everything works and the more questions answered results in a hundred more unanswered but there is really no other reason to live other than to decipher the mysteries of the universe that have conspired to give us consciousness at this location in this period of time. ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: August 04 2019 at 07:54
You've got it. It's refreshing to know another PA member gets it. Thank you for taking the time to articulate and share, there's not enough serious discussion about this stuff in my honest opinion. ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 04 2019 at 08:17
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^ I haven't chimed in on these complex issues on PA because i'm slowly working on my own website and will be producing my own podcasts. Still trying to get my act together for recording my own music as well. Life is filled with one curve ball after another. The only thing i can seem to accomplish on a consistent basis is writing music reviews! I'm an insatiable student of this stuff. Probably studying 4 hours a day on average by watching videos, reading etc. This is certainly an interesting time to be alive as we are seeing the defeat of the dark forces or at least a retreat. There is by no means a guaranteed outcome which is why i've had to step up out of the shadows as a perpetual student of life and start realizing i've accumlated enough knowledge to be a teacher of sorts. We no longer have the time to luxuriate in our own little worlds without sharing the gifts we were given. Mine happens to be a gift of language skills that i can articulate clearly. I'll certainly let you know when i have my site up (hopefully this year). It will cover all this stuff and more with links and videos and the like :) ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: twseel
Date Posted: August 04 2019 at 10:32
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Okayyyy I'm butting out of this one. What do blood sacrifices and brainwashing have to do with the plain simple and obvious link between CO2 emissions and changing weather conditions? How have you even tried to contradict any of that? -------------
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Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: August 04 2019 at 10:58
Why is that a bad thing? Why should we pay trillions of dollars to stop it? Plants need CO2 like we need Oxygen. Plants like it. The ice caps have melted completely before. The Sun is getting brighter over time and will continue to brighten for billions of years. Should we tax the sun? China leads the world in spewing carbon. No attempt has been made to stop China. The USA lowered it's carbon emissions. The Earth's ice caps were completely melted
from:
-The early Ediacaran period (about 620 million years ago) to the late Ordovician (about 445 million years ago), -The early Silurian period (about 444 million years ago) through the Devonian period (about 350 million years ago) -The early Triassic period (240 million years ago) through the early Miocene epoch (until about 15 million years ago) |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 04 2019 at 12:40
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^ Well I certainly wouldn't want you looking after anything that lives or breathes, CO2 is good to a point, but excessive amounts are not good to say the least. ------------- Help the victims of the russian invasion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: August 04 2019 at 13:28
CO2 atmosphere rates have been much higher in the past. Five times as much when dinosaurs roamed the earth. Somehow, the earth made it to this point. Do you stay awake at night, worrying about CO2 and Russia? Do you?
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 04 2019 at 13:53
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The CO2 aspect of climate change is a TOTAL SCAM! Media saturation to propogate elite agendas to create a new world order. Watch this Washington state hearing in the Senate by Dr Don Easterbrook. Scientific data is useless unless you understand a) who's funding it b) the long term agenda c) the critieria for its relevance If you have a long enough attention span to watch this hour and a half video check it out. Scroll to the bottom of this site. http://anticorruptionsociety.com" rel="nofollow - https://anticorruptionsociety.com
------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 04 2019 at 15:43
 and we have decided you are a person we have to keep an eye on, you apparently know way too much and we can't let the public know what you know. ------------- Help the victims of the russian invasion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: August 04 2019 at 15:45
Alright. Easy Money has a sense of humor! Still, I agree with silly puppy.
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Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 04 2019 at 15:46
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^ Of course you do, no surprise there. ------------- Help the victims of the russian invasion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 04 2019 at 15:47
I have informed "the elites" that they need to watch this thread, keep posting at your own peril.  ------------- Help the victims of the russian invasion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 04 2019 at 18:49
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^ The elites are going down because we refuse to buy into their nonsense any longer. You can invite them all to their going away party. You may want to change to the side of actual evidence and save yourself from the pitchfork societies! ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: twseel
Date Posted: August 04 2019 at 23:33
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Posted By: twseel
Date Posted: August 04 2019 at 23:35
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The problem with all this 'science is a scam' stuff is that these scientists did nothing but professionally analyze publicly known data, and you could do exactly the same work and check their figures if you want to and think you are able too in a reliable way. Or do you not trust the thermometers used? -------------
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Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 00:50
It is not hard to trust the thermometers more than their users. Even in our little country where the professionally analyzed data are being manipulated when they are inconvenient or not usable to impose a doctrine. The temperatures in De Bilt, from 1 January 1901 to 31 August 1951, have been "homogenized" with a difference up to 2 degrees or so in summertime. This is total crap, there were no reasons to believe that the circumstances changed on 1 September 1951 according to the metadata. It is said that the data used for the Paris Agreement have also been adjusted to fit the needs of the political agenda. Opportunistic pseudo-science is widely practised these days. -------------
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 02:05
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I dislike the world of celebrity and Hollywood at the best of times. Hollywood is a nest of overpaid pedophiles, and opportunists with friends in very high places. I suspect, not one of these coke sniffing, c**k suckers gives two flying sh*tes about climate change. It's all about 'virtue signalling' for their own gain. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 02:16
------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 03:23
This may result in https://new.blog.cloudflare.com/terminating-service-for-8chan/" rel="nofollow - termination of the Cloudflare service for PA and the re-implementation of the captcha's when they mistake PA for an alt-right site  .-------------
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 06:45
Did you watch the video? It explains a lot. ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 06:48
 ------------- Help the victims of the russian invasion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 06:56
Nah, that would never happen... Oh wait.. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 07:10
All presidents are fake. At least since JFK. Too much focus on the current buffoon fails to recognize the larger patterns of how the system works. Keep in mind there are two systems at play. The bifurcation of the nation into a republic and a doppelgangerl corporate entity was carried out with the Act of 1871 and most Americans have unknowingly become contractually entangled with the corporate entity and in the process waiving their constitutional rights. If you don't understand this concept then you pretty much understand nothing of how the nation really works. ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 08:55
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Criticism of science and particularly science reporting (and understanding) is often very justified, but putting something alternative in its place convincingly is very hard. Ultimately if we want to make up our own mind rather than blindly believing in "authorities" we'd need to read the literature, separate the credible from the crap and ultimately do our own experiments. Oh, and we shouldn't forget that observations and results are one thing and interpretation quite another, and that while we may wonder about the supposed "objectivity" of science we ourselves cannot be objective either because there's no observation without observer and therefore without observer's perspective and bias. I have worked in science for a long time and my impression is that while people like siLLy puPPy surely have a point and nothing should be just believed uncritically, I hardly can be more easily convinced by the likes of Rupert Sheldrake or people doing 90 minutes videos telling us it's all a scam and the truth is out there to be found for those who are just open minded enough to... ditch some supposed authorities for some others. Things that can be observed are often hugely complex and contradictory, all is influenced by personal or group interests, very true that, but being prepared to watch a 90 minutes video or spending 10 years at university or even half a lifetime will not get anyone to the "true bottom of things"; I'm rather with those scientists who at the age of 85 start their presentations with "I have worked on XXX through most of my research career and the main thing I have learnt is how little I understand about all this. Here is a round-up of my most recent level of ignorance." These guys exist and listening to them we can learn the most. And maybe also that science itself will hopefully always have some of those who question the supposedly established consensus and go different ways. And the power of science is really the amount of informed chaos and controversy it hosts, and for this reason I still will stick with it for a bit longer. It is in fact true that science also hosts some tendencies to suppress controversy, and this is what we have to fight (for which reason I'll probably give siLLy puPPy's podcasts a try if I'm told where to find them) rather than switching one "see the truth" religion for another.
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Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 09:24
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1. I recognize that Record high Antarctica ice and coldest local summer since 1973 doesn't mean that Global Warming isn't real. 2. Suppose Global warming is true. 3. Suppose the SUN isn't the main reason. And the CO2 is the main reason. 4. Suppose Global warming isn't good or neutral, but BAD for the earth. Even though, multiple times, the Earth has had 500% more CO2 in the atmosphere in the past. I can suppose all those things. But I can't suppose that politicians and Globalists will solve the Global Warming issues with Our Tax Dollars. The Green New Deal would cost USA 150% of the current Dept. 32 Trillion dollars! Taxes would triple or quadruple. That's the SCAM!
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Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 10:02
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^ You're rushing to a lot of conclusions there. Just because one is concerned that dumping poison in the air and water might be harmful to our well being does not mean that one has to support any 'new green deal', or any other particular agenda. Solutions exist for those that make them happen, find a better solution. ------------- Help the victims of the russian invasion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 11:38
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I think reforestation is probably one of the better ideas I've seen in recent years in tackling climate change. Of course, this would need to be part of a multi-pronged solution. But it might gives us more time to deal with the more complicated problems of energy and fossil fuels. https://science.sciencemag.org/content/365/6448/76" rel="nofollow - https://science.sciencemag.org/content/365/6448/76 ------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 11:43
Sadly the pinheads that voted him in are very real.  ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Quinino
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 12:36
There you are - a glimpse of hope ?!!
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Posted By: twseel
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 12:39
The thermometer was relocated in 1951 and new extra climate measuring tools were added to correct for very local deviances and make the temperature measurements more representative of the average temperature of the air in the whole region, and thus more valuable and useful. The older data were then corrected with the average deviation they found from the pure temp measurements in these new combined data, knowing from other sources that those climatalocal factors had been constant. This way the correction makes the older data less detailed than the newer but it does make the trend over these two data sets combined way more reliable. Also, they've been doing this since well before climate change was a popular issue. -------------
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Posted By: twseel
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 12:45
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Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 14:51
Modifying data according to trends is nothing but data manipulation and, as far as I am aware of, measured data are always preferrable over manipulated data. I don't care for cover stories in which political agendas are wrapped, and even less when the source does not burp up a message about this relocation on the day mentioned. The thermometer was relocated on 17 May 1950 and replaced by some more electronic stuff on 29 June 1961 and on 26 March 1993. On 25 September 2008, some instruments have been relocated 200 m. Nothing happened on 1 September 1951, but before this date, the temperatures have been gretelthunberged and afterwards, they have been left intact suddenly. Not exactly what I'd call a trend. The temperature measurement modifications lack any scientific substance and therefore should be discarded as poppycock. These manipulations popped up instantly, some four, maybe five years ago when a certain Charlie Charlatan, or whatever his name is, became dr. Charlie Charlatan. http://projects.knmi.nl/klimatologie/metadata/debilt.html" rel="nofollow - Here are the metadata I referred to. As an encore, I give the details of a weather history page I made, for 27 June 1947, until a week and a bit more ago the highest max temperature in De Bilt  .For non-Dutch speakers: gemeten = measured, gemiddeld = average, waarden = values. (When the temperature is not manipulated or the manipulated temperatures are equal to the measured ones, a portrait of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._H._D._Buys_Ballot" rel="nofollow - Chris Buys Ballot appears):
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 16:31
Are you seriously calling CO2 poison? ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 17:16
If you're too goddamned lazy or lackadaisical to watch a bleeping video then i really don't want to engage in any kind of dialogue with you at all. Assuming everything is a conspiracy without investigating is the epitome of ignorance. Get it? Igornace comes from the same word that makes IGNORE. You IGNORE the info and make conclusions without even studying it. You and your ilk are the problem. Not CO2 Explain briefly he says. Yep, if it's not a 30 second soundbyte then tune it out. Forget doing the hundreds if not thousands of hours that it takes to understand complex issues on a macro- multidimensional level. That would take time out of your drinking time. Nah, easier to reamin in the dark. Ignorance is bliss until it's deadly.
------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 17:18
 ------------- Help the victims of the russian invasion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 17:20
Nope, that's why i asked. Your reply insinuated that you were taking that stance in response to OMPH's CO2 comments which is one often pushed by many. ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 17:22
------------- Help the victims of the russian invasion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 17:30
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^ First of all keep in mind outside of music i have nothing better to do but study things like linguisitcs, science, the occult and aspects of the legal systems, therefore i think like a lawyer and in your one short three sentence reply to Omph's post one could infer many different directions those words were intended. Since her only reference to emissions was CO2 then it is logical to conclude that your response to dumping poison in the air MAY be in response to that. That means it's a possibility and that is why i asked to find out where you stand. Kapish? ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 17:32
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Wrong again my friend, I was referring to pollution, hence the word CO2 does not show up as you imagined it, kapish? ------------- Help the victims of the russian invasion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 17:41
Then use the word pollution and there won't be any ambiguities. More specifically which types of pollution which in reality is a rather nebulous term. ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 17:45
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Sorry, boss man, I'm the one that chooses my words, not mr dictator puppy. ------------- Help the victims of the russian invasion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 17:59
A friendly suggestion is all it is. You can use any words you want but if you want to be understood better than maybe a change is what the doctor ordered. ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 18:02
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Wrong again, I'll be understood better if I choose the words I think best and don't take advice (or orders) from someone I probably would not want advice from in the first place. ------------- Help the victims of the russian invasion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 18:05
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Then you shouldn't get all dismayed when i ask you a question to clarify then, should you? ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 18:08
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wrong again, I'm not the least bit dismayed, you obviously needed help, so I'm trying to help. ------------- Help the victims of the russian invasion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 18:20
If you're not dismayed why use the dismay emoji? Hmmm, i don't think i want your help. ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 18:23
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I think you misunderstand the emoticons too, but that's a trivial issue. If you did not want my help, why did you ask for it? ------------- Help the victims of the russian invasion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 18:31
------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 18:32
I didn't. I asked you to clarify. And you did. Can we move on now? ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 05 2019 at 18:34
Move on when you want to, you don't need my permission. ------------- Help the victims of the russian invasion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: August 06 2019 at 03:03
------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: August 06 2019 at 06:45
Just to give this conversation some balance (and these are shorter if attention span is an issue): ------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: August 06 2019 at 07:00
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Oh, and part 3... ------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 06 2019 at 11:02
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^ i've definately come across those before but i just watched all three in order to refresh my memory. First of all whoever is claiming to be Dr Keith Strong doesn't have any credidentials to examine which would allow someone to judge their credibility of being able to talk on the subject at hand. There are no references as to who funded the videos, who provided the info, data etc. Easterbrook on the other hand is quite well known and has no problem putting his reputation and his own name on the line: About Don Easterbrook Dr. Easterbrook received BS, MS, and PhD degrees in geology from the University of Washington and taught for 40 years at Western Washington University where he has conducted research on ancient and recent global climate change in western North America, New Zealand, Argentina, and various other parts of the world. He has written a dozen books,185 papers in professional journals, and has presented 30 research papers at international meetings in over 12 countries. In the past decade, he has published five books and 35 peer–reviewed papers in professional scientific journals. Dr. Easterbrook's professional service includes chairman of the 1977 national meeting of the Geological Society of America (GSA); president of the Quaternary Geology and Geomorphology Division of GSA; Associate Editor of the GSA Bulletin for 15 years; U.S. representative to the UN International Geological Correlation Program; and Director of Field Excursions for the 2003 International Quaternary Congress. He has received awards for ‘Distinguished service to the Geological Society of America’, ‘Lifetime Achievement Award’, and Honorable mention by the American Men of Science as one of “The Most Influential Scientists in North America.” He has been featured in articles on climate change in the New York Times, and has appeared on national networks shows at MSNBC, CNN, CBS and FOX. Dr. Easterbrook's research activities related to climate change include causes of climate change, correlation of glacial fluctuations, the Pacific Decadal Oscillation, climate, and solar variation, temp changes using oxygen isotope data from the Greenland ice core, effect of CO2 on climate change, and geologic history of climate changes. http://myweb.wwu.edu/dbunny/" rel="nofollow - http://myweb.wwu.edu/dbunny/ Here are several more videos of his debates on climate science so that one was by no means an anomoly. http://www.heartland.org/multimedia/videos/don-j-easterbrook-iccc-12-panel-1b-climate-science" rel="nofollow - https://www.heartland.org/multimedia/videos/don-j-easterbrook-iccc-12-panel-1b-climate-science I honestly don't understand why this page shows up correctly in the preview page but simply goes to another. Copy and paste into a browser to get the actual page.  Keep in mind that video was limited to CO2. There is no doubt that there are many other threats to the environment. I could go on ad infinitum about these topics but many things dude rebutted (and he is far from the only one who has tried) were mixing apples and oranges. Two things are almost certain: 1) No one really knows for sure as to what is going on in absolute detail. Our records are pitifully clumsy and our time on this planet is a blip on the radar of history. 2) there are many factors to all the changes and focusing on CO2 is to ignore the others. There are many scientists who believe the melting of the Arctic and Antarctic are due to volcanic activities. http://www.nathab.com/blog/under-the-ice-in-antarctica-and-greenland-more-future-warming-and-a-past-cooling-down/" rel="nofollow - https://www.nathab.com/blog/under-the-ice-in-antarctica-and-greenland-more-future-warming-and-a-past-cooling-down/ There is much evidence that it is the sun and other external sources given that the entire solar system is undergoing similar changes. That does not mean humans aren't playing an impact of course. It just means we don't know exactly how much. These issues seem to be more emotionally driven than based on logic and careful interpretation of what data does exist. And you can totally go elsewhere. Yes humans are causes changes but not all of us. The military and industrial complexes are the ones to blame for human caused changes as they manipualte the weather patterns of the world for political reasons. Without getting into the motivations (which you can learn about through whistleblowers like John Perkins who wrote the excellent "Confessions of an Economic Hitman," you can simply look at the many weather modification patents that have been accruing for decades and come to your own conclusions. Sure they just go to the trouble to invent these things for no reason! Suuuuuuure! http://patents.google.com/?q=weather&q=modification&oq=weather+modification" rel="nofollow - https://patents.google.com/?q=weather&q=modification&oq=weather+modification In the end, nobody including Easterbrook has all the answers. The complete dismissal or complete acceptance of any one culprit would be a mistake IMHO. It's all about finding an equilibirum that allows the biosphere to exist without a propensity of instability. However this has been and always will be a volatile planet with many aspects of the multi-dimensional universe that will elude our limited perceptions and with that in mind we must simply adapt to the forces that dictate our reality.
------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: August 06 2019 at 13:17
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^Here is Keith Strong's credentials: https://www.linkedin.com/in/keith-strong-5362b489/" rel="nofollow - https://www.linkedin.com/in/keith-strong-5362b489/ https://scicolloq.gsfc.nasa.gov/Strong.html" rel="nofollow - https://scicolloq.gsfc.nasa.gov/Strong.html The source of these videos is Keith Strong's own YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/drkstrong" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/user/drkstrong But since we're talking about credentials, doesn't Easterbook's association with the Heartland Institute set off red flags in your head? It sure does in mine.
Is it apples and oranges when Strong shows clearly that Easterbrook is cherry-picking data in his graphs? It's curious how so many of them stopped in 1998. Several times Strong shows graphs over a longer period of time that show the exact opposite of what Easterbrook claims. This was the guy who predicted global cooling was just around the corner. 18 years ago!
I think this explanation from NASA is pretty straightforward that it isn't the sun. Further, we should be in a cooling period based on current sunspot activity. Instead the warming trend continues. https://climate.nasa.gov/faq/14/is-the-sun-causing-global-warming/" rel="nofollow - https://climate.nasa.gov/faq/14/is-the-sun-causing-global-warming/
That's not what that article says.
I'm mostly in agreement on general terms here. However, the body of evidence on anthropogenic climate change seems pretty solid to me. It's enough in my view to warrant doing something about it now before it gets much worse. ------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 06 2019 at 13:24
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Re Easterbrook's Heartland Institute, they seem to be regressive on other issues as well: In the 1990s, the Heartland Institute worked with the tobacco company Philip Morris to attempt to discredit the health risks of secondhand smoke and to lobby against smoking bans.[ ------------- Help the victims of the russian invasion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
Posted By: ForestFriend
Date Posted: August 06 2019 at 14:03
The truth is, there's big money on either side... Living in Oil Country, I see a lot of money going into the pushing the other side too. Thing is, I notice around here people on the anti-pollution side (there is more than just CO2 going in the air, so lets not dwell on that silly argument) tend to cite academic papers, while the pro-oil side tends to cite web pages that aren't so academic, and usually have a message on the bottom like "this information collected by [oil company]"... Hmmm... Let's face it, we're in a capitalistic society where time=money. If people can't find a way to make money off of something, they won't invest their time into it. If people are making the world a better place because they can make money off of it, we should applaud the system for working, rather than criticizing the people. It's better than people getting rich through human trafficking. ------------- https://borealkinship.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My prog band - Boreal Kinship |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 06 2019 at 14:24
------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 06 2019 at 14:26
Totally agree with all of this which is why individuals like me who are merely investigative sleuths are quite rare. I have no interest in any particular outcome. I just want to know the truth insofaras it can be known. ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: August 06 2019 at 16:20
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To quote the Vorlons from Babylon 5..." Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth.'" I suspect that the truth isn't completely on one side at all but more in the middle somewhere. But regarding 'climate change', I find it very hard to think that humans are not affecting the climate and atmosphere on earth since the beginning of the Industrial Age. We have been pouring garbage into the air and water and on the earth itself for at least 200 years...we certainly must have affected some patterns and environmental aspects by now. Whether or not it's causing the level of change some think it must be causing more than what the naysayers think. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 06 2019 at 16:36
Well put. Keep in mind i've only been debunking CO2 as the culprit behind the changes. The reason i feel this is important is because it takes the focus off the things that REALLY ARE doing the most damage to the Earth's biosphere. Humans are definately causing the sixth mass extinction. Without a doubt. However if we want to solve these problems we need to focus less on recycling and fictitious schemes such as a new green deals through the likes of the governments of the world and rather learn how dark psychologists have tricked we the people of the earth into giving consent to our indentured servitude. This requires leaning natural or cosmic laws that govern morality much like physics dictates the laws of gravity, electromagnetism etc. The occult hierarchies have known these principles for millennia and have chosen to use them to dumb us down into slaves. It is impossible to delve into TRUE solutions of envirnomental destruction without tackling these more personal metaphysical principles therefore envirnomental destruction is a symptom of collective aggregate cosmic moral laws being ignored. ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: August 06 2019 at 17:42
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My main point? I don't believe Politicians can solve Global Warming by taxing workers for trillions of dollars. Is there anyone who believes politicians can solve Global Warming? Do you believe politicians will become filthy rich handling trillions of CO2 tax dollars?
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 06 2019 at 17:45
 ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: DamoXt7942
Date Posted: August 07 2019 at 02:14
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I understand there are various opinions for (or against) global climate change, but please discuss it with respect for others. Thanks a lot. ------------- http://www.facebook.com/damoxt7942" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: August 07 2019 at 02:20
I'd say Nee to that (Neen has become a bit old-fashioned lately). I think the whole CO2 scam is based on the fact that the surface temperature of Venus with its carbon dioxide atmosphere is about 480°C. But Venus is a bit closer to the sun and its atmosphere has a pressure of 90 bar at surface level. -------------
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Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: August 07 2019 at 05:40
------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: August 07 2019 at 08:02
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China emits more C02 than America and EU combined. How would increasing American's CO2 taxes stop China from emitting CO2? Remember, China gives millions to democrat and republican members of congress. https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2018/07/01/china-emits-more-carbon-dioxide-than-the-u-s-and-eu-combined/#52f1c1ec628c
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 07 2019 at 08:15
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^ unfortunately you have to explore past the scant links and videos i presented to come to these conclusions. That video by Easterbrook was a public hearing not designed to really be on the internet. It would be nice if someone made a comprehensive comparison between the different claims with all the data cited and how it was obtained. Personally i don't "believe" anything per se, i simply operate under a spectrum of probabilities and those change as new verifiable data is presented and then there's always doubt in if it's accurate or tainted or whatever. It may seem i have overcomplicated this but dealing with Earth sciences is very much like dealing with a human being. Everything is connected. The nervous system and the endocrine system work in tandem. Same with the climate, geology and other subtle planetary functions that we haven't even named yet. Unfortunately these rabbitholes take you into the world of metaphysics since the driving force of anthropogenic changes is clearly based in psychology. To understand NASA you have to listen to whistleblowers who have spilled the beans about the black budget projects and that is beyond the scope of this thread. I plan on compiling all this info on my own website so no need to get too deep here however as it stands now i'm just not convinced that CO2 is the major culprit in planetary climate change at least not at the dangerous levels it is purported to be and for sure there are NO POLITICIANS who will solve this. Government is slavery. ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 07 2019 at 09:17
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I think Don Easterbrook and the Heartland Institute would be about the last place to get un-biased information. They are just defenders of corporate interests and industrial pollution for short term profit (expensive clean up comes later). Defending tobacco corporations is about as low as it gets in corporate defense. Easterbrook did not defend the tobacco tycoons, but that is the kind of work Heartland does and endorses, anything for profit. ------------- Help the victims of the russian invasion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 07 2019 at 09:34
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^ certainly can't defend anything the Heartland Institute has done. Presented his video simply as a source of info that many others also share. If i had time i'd do a better job at presenting a more thorough case study of why i've come to my conclusions. I'll save that for my own website but you are correct to bring that up because involvement in any shady institution raises red flags and dilutes the message. ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 07 2019 at 11:52
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When it comes to man's pollution and its effect on the earth, you basically have two different camps: 1) politicians like trump and many others, and the corporate interests they represent, for instance oil and coal. 2) meteorologists, in other words people who were so interested in climate as a young person that they decided to make it their living and they are so competent in this endeavor that they can actually make a living at it. Its not politics that attracts people to meteorology, its an interest in how the world works. Personally I find the second group to have a lot more integrity regarding this issue. ------------- Help the victims of the russian invasion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
Posted By: NutterAlert
Date Posted: August 07 2019 at 12:08
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what a strange thread.... I feel sorry for the Earth, the goldilocks planet, maybe the only planet with life on it (although the moon has life now the Israeli's have crash landed a load of Tardigrades there). You'd have thought in such an amazing place the inhabitants would live in peace and harmony I subscribe to Douglas Adams "B Ark" plan... but they would have to be a f**king enormous vessels to fit in the extremists, brexiteers, murderers, rapists, nationalists, racists, hairdressers, telephone sanitisers, marketing executives and all politicians.... then the Earth would be a happier place and the Tardigrades would breathe more easily ------------- Proud to be an un-banned member since 2005 |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: August 08 2019 at 02:29
Great! I absolutely agree! However, there's one problem: the reality of human behavior when under stress. If your mortgage payment, children's financial future, and your personal debt/financial freedom hinged on not losing your job...how much would you prioritize stretching/obscuring/going along to get along to avoid being homeless...? Those "very vested interests" you're appealing to go both ways. Everyone loves to claim humans are selfish, but everyone conveniently forgets that goes both ways. People do insane sh*t to protect their money on both sides of the coin. I'm not asserting this is objectively happening, but to present it in a dichotomy like that and act as if one is a clearly more rational path to "truth" is, well, irrational in its own premise. ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: August 08 2019 at 10:00
I'm a statistician. This puts me in the nice position to have collaborated with scientists from many fields (not climate science though). Statistics is hard, even for statisticians, and it's quite essential for science. I have seen much wrong statistics in science, and that doesn't even touch the issue of the trustworthiness of the data. One thing that I wanted to add is that science is essentially a social, collaborative and communicative endeavour. The idea that one person can get to the bottom of things on their own can't work. The amount of established scientific knowledge is huge. Ultimately we can't make all the observations and evaluations on our own. What we believe relies always to a big extent on trust. We trust some sources and informations and discard others, or we can't find anything to believe. Science is also paradoxical. On one hand science relies on critical thinking and on the rejection of dogma, but on the other hand it is impossible to get at the level of proper understanding what goes on without accepting some things that a single person can't check on their own. So science needs to encourage controversy, but there needs to be a limit in order to make it possible to move forward, find out something new, draw consequences. The human nature will always get in the way of proper science; people can make money and get famous if they claim the right things. Science is vulnerable to meddling interests and also to plain human stupidity, psychology and egoism. However, science is huge and many people contribute to it, and science has always the potential to call out a manipulator. Within science, we need to fight for this and cannot take for granted that it will happen, but I don't think a one-man-band from outside has good chances to do better. We need to listen and to encourage controversy but at the same time we will always try to build on what's already there, and it is no surprise that people who do that sometimes react dismissive to those who attemptto tear down what is seen as fundamental. I have seen my fair share of corruption and egoism in science, but usually in such cases there is dissent, and often that dissent may win or at least survive. My perception from the inside is very, very different from the idea that this is all guided by some more or less hidden world elite. Science gets things wrong, at least temporarily, but it still has some mechanisms to correct itself or at least allow pluralism until things are sorted out. By the way, I'm not an expert of Rupert Sheldrake's work, and I was probably too negative in my earlier posting. He has some very interesting stuff, and I do realise that some people try to defend their position by discrediting him, often in unfair or stupid ways. However to positively establish his morphic resonance ideas he won't succeed as a "loner against the establishment" and rightly so, because science is communicative and he needs to be convincing. He needs to get through to those who are open enough, and in science you will find them (if what you present is convincing enough). I have by the way similar experiences pointing out the weak statistical arguments behind some of the key works that were used to convince the world that homeopathy is no good. Many scientists don't like that (homeopathy is among the top belief systems to be branded "pseudoscience") and I had to deal with a good number of ignorant counterarguments, all by otherwise intelligent scientists. People would try to convince me that positive studies that I had seen either don't exist or are methodologically flawed without having read them. However, that homeopathy is criticised unfairly doesn't make it true, and you can find as much ignorance on the other side. |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: August 08 2019 at 11:39
I simply don't know enough about CO2 to say what it's current and future impact is but I don't think that proposing global warming and climate change is some kind of hoax by scientists as many right wing conservatives think. I have no doubt we are affecting the planet....but how much and when will it be too late is certainly open to question. I do think we need to look hard into the matter without bias from either camp. Regarding the 'dark psychologists' , 'occult hierarchies' , and 'metaphysics', and 'cosmic moral laws'.......that is an esoteric ( 'out there') approach and one I don't think is very amenable to basic discussion...at least on an everyday level since most people are simply not up for such 'deep issues'. While such esoteric things certainly affect the human condition, depending on one's philosophy/ideology, I'm not sure in the immediate time frame it can be of help to solve the pollution issues facing us now. I think I understand what you are driving at ( I have spent some time in the past delving into various occult and metaphysics) though I suspect some would think you are falling down the rabbit hole by invoking such strange aspects.  ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: August 09 2019 at 18:35
(Sorry if the euphemisms seem condescending; "dark psychologist" just seemed to be ripe for nicknames) ------------- https://dreamwindow.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My Music 
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 09 2019 at 20:31
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^^ I'll try to keep this short since i can easily go on a tangent :) Fiendish Freuds works for me! (good 1! HI 5 ;) Climate change is related to dark psychology because the drive to keep the power differntials in place results in keeping technologies centralized so that those who have been in power can remain so. Dark psychology has to do with hypnotizing humanity to forget the cosmic laws of the universe. Natural law is the universal, non-humanmade, binding and immutable conditions that govern the consequences of behavior. Natural law is a body of universal spiritual laws which act as the governing dynmaics of consciousness. Historically those who have held the secrets of spirtual laws have kept them from the masses in order to give them a power differntial over the majority of humanity and have used these to reign with impugnity. The methods of centralized power control are the polluting forces of the planet that are destroying it. All solutions such as free energy and the like have been invented long ago therefore science is not the issue at hand. It is the power differential that disallows greener technologies from being implemented. These power differentials result from one side, the elite, believing they are superior and sent here to control us, therefore disillusion and greed are the driving forces of consciousness (thus dark or evil or service to self) The other side of the equation is the majority of humans that buy into the systems of control ie. governments, corporations etc that have been calling the shots. This results from a sense of inferiiority. The dark psychologists are masters of wielding these mind games and creating "daddy" issues for the masses who need to look to a higher power to survive because the majority lacks the vital knowledge of these univeresal principles. It is therefore imperitive for the survival of the planet for the masses to understand the occult laws and principles that have been kept from them in order to balance out the power differential into one that is an even playing field and only then can we implement the more sustainable ways of living on this planet. In short, climate change and other environmental issues are a SYMPTOM of this psychological and spiritual war that is coming to a final showdown therefore the solution is to de-occult the world so that the masses can take back their power which will result in a restructuring of all systems. I apologize if my years of research condensed into short rants doesn't resonate. It's not exactly easy to condense a wealth of connecting the dots into a few blurbs. Hopefully i gave you somewhat of a clue where i'm coming from. This is why i don't chime in too often on topics like this but it is becoming more essential than ever that humanity breaks free from the clutches of those who have steered us for waaaaaay too long. ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 09 2019 at 21:00
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^^ btw natural law can be an ambiguous term. In the true sense it means respecting free will and the rights of others. Rights are actions that do no harm to other sentient beings. It can all be boiled down to a single commandment. DO NOT STEAL. Do not steal another's life (kill), another's security (rape or trespassing), another's property (theft), etc. This furthermore connotates a universal cause and effect known as the wheel of karma however it is very prevelent that those who allow themselves to be controlled are also using their freewill in this case to avoid responsbility but are still karmically responsible for the actions they carry out whether they understand it or not much the same as if you jump over a cliff that the laws of grivity will dictate your fate regardless of belief, intent etc ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: August 10 2019 at 03:34
I'm with you on a lot of this just PLEASE TELL ME YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING MARK PASSIO ON YOUTUBE. ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: Tillerman88
Date Posted: August 10 2019 at 03:45
Sorry but "hypnotising humanity" does not apply to those allowing themselves to be controlled (unless you intended to mean unconsciously allowing themselves to be controlled.) Would you please explain this incongruence? . ------------- The overwhelming amount of information on a daily basis restrains people from rewinding the news record archives to refresh their memories... |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 10 2019 at 06:59
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[/QUOTE] I'm with you on a lot of this just PLEASE TELL ME YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING MARK PASSIO ON YOUTUBE. [/QUOTE]
I do keep up with Mark. I don't buy into every aspect of his philosphy. He's far too 3D for my tastes but nevertheless he is a gifted orator who does do a lot of the info he espouses justice. Keep in mind what he's saying is nothing new under the sun, he's simply recycling mystery school teachings of which i've studied myself. To be honest, i came to many of the same conclusions before ever coming across Passio's works. I have been following countless dozens of spirtual teachers, whistleblowers, esoteric scientists, mainstream figures etc for years. Passio has made me question a lot of my own assumptions but i question many of his as well. One of the things i dislike about him is his contempt of anyone questioning some of his philosophies particularly when it comes to things like violent revolution and the likes. Don't write the dude off by all means. His teachings perfectly line up with many others of the same. Not sure how much you check him out but i've viewed probably most of his output but like i said he's just one person i follow and i never agree with anyone in total. Having said that, the natural law principles are probably his best contribution for teaching human morality that i've come across. It doesn't matter if you approach it from the Chrisitan point of view, Hinduism, The Law of One: Ra or any other esoteric texts. It all points to the same golden rules. I do like how he's broken it down for easier digestion for the masses. Also i share his affinity with true anarchy, a term very few actually understand. Also as a ten year priest of the Church of Satn, Passio offers a perspective of the dark underworld that few have experienced. When compared to others such as multigenerational Satanic ritual abuse victims like Jay Parker, Cathy O'brien and many others, there's a lot of common ground. When someone refers to the "illuminati" or the cabal that rules the world, they are really talking about a cult. This cult has a belief system that worships Lucifer. There are literally countless out there who have narrated similar tales even deeper in this cult than Passio himself so not sure why you find his works so out of the ordinary.
------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 10 2019 at 07:04
Certainly does. You don't think hypnotism can't be voluntary? For anything to work in the universe, EVERYTHING must be voluntary. That seems to be one of the tenets of cosmic law. Hollywood and the entertainment business is the perfect example. They put out a product to distract the masses from what's really going on and further studies into the esoteric wisdom that isn't really occulted at all but rather just difficult to learn. The way it is all framed is to point the immature into the system of control where the power differentials reign with impugnity. You could look at it as "unconsciously" but at a higher level of what is YOU, there is a form of consent even if your conscious mind doesn't understand it. This is a form of dark psychology. Creating a rift between the higher self and the individual. ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: 2dogs
Date Posted: August 10 2019 at 08:15
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It’s a strange world. The laws of physics seem to be inviolable but not so much the laws of probability. ------------- "There is nothing new except what has been forgotten" - Marie Antoinette |
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: August 10 2019 at 10:13
How exactly does climate change keep technologies centralized? It seems to me with solar and wind power and alternative building methods it's doing just the opposite. P.S.: As for the rest of the mystical new age stuff, I don't wish to engage. ------------- A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now) |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 10 2019 at 10:53
That, my friend, has to do with the patenting process. Anything over a certain efficiency rate is immediately classified as a threat to "national security." Eschewing the spiritual aspects of reality there is much to be gleaned from just legal mumbo jumbo and whistle-blower testimonies. For example in the USA the system bifurcated with the Act of 1871 which effectively created a united States corporation that has taken over through sophisticated contractual agreements. Add to that, the nation went bankrupt in 1933 and has existed under declarations of emergency ever since which means the constitution of the republic has been suspended ever since. That's why whenever an inventor actually creates something that will save the environment that it immediately gets pushed out of the news and disappears. Sorry to say that solar and wind under the system we now have will not save us. ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: August 10 2019 at 10:59
------------- https://dreamwindow.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My Music
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Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: August 10 2019 at 15:08
No new technology needed. It doesn't take much energy to heat or cool a straw bale house, for instance. I do have a problem with Capitalist inertia that fails to promote such alternatives, but I regard this as an invisible hand problem, not a top down conspiratorial thing. There is a problem, as always, getting good (sometimes old) ideas to market. The problem is subject to the traditions and expertise of laborers in the building industry, building codes, and marketing of alternatives. ------------- A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now) |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 10 2019 at 15:21
You have to look at a bigger picture to understand where i'm coming from. No new technology needed correct because free energy, anti-gravity devises and much more already exist only limited to the military industrial complex. You need to understand what the word "conspiracy" means better. Take some time and look it up. The main problems are 1) the monetary system which is a can of worms beyond the scope of this conversation and 2) back to psychology. Many humans demand more resources than they need to survive or fulfill their happiness. This is because higher spiritual knowledge has been kept from them which makes them feel cut off from the universe. We need to get the balance back. I won't even get into the rebalancing of the sacred feminine or the right / left brain imbalances that the elites keep from us. Remember that this is a war against psychopaths. Genius ones. To understand anything i've typed in this whole thread, you have to understand the thought process of a psychopath. Think of why Harry Potter and his friends took Snapes' dark arts class. Not to become a Satanist but to learn the ways for self-defense. We're facing a similar battle. ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |