What's the quickest way to emigrate?

well, who had serious doubts about that?

first exercise, fueling the fire in the Gulf region

Sadly no, but I have been to Dublin a couple of times, does that count?

 

I remember seeing BJ on HIGNFY years ago and thought he was an idiot then, if someone had said then that he was going to be our PM one day I think I'd have either emigrated then or died laughing.

So the biggest prick in the village is now in charge of the bouncy castle. What could possibly go wrong?

All joking aside, shouldn't there be the utmost concern that such individuals like Johnson, Farage, Trump, Salvini, Le Pen, Kurz, Helme, Orban, Jansa, Wilders,  et al are rising to the top of their profession via democratic means? We need to ask ourselves what is the source of the expedient 'nationalism' that is turning indigenous peoples against each other?

The Donald and the Boris have a few striking similarities: both are native New Yorkers (the Boris has a double nationality) and when they look across the Atlantic, they may see a slightly distorted image of each other.

Now let's wait and see if BJ can redress the sabotage done by Theresa Mole.

We already have a large British community here and the food is superb - as you should all know by now -  at large Mediterranean cooking with great variety (particularly in the fish and shellfish department) plus a typical   local twist of flavors, specially herbs and such.

(we're on the Iberian Peninsula, just below France and next door to Spain, where the food is also not bad at all)

 

Can I stay long enough for this to all blow over?

I was about to post ... just another Trump'et?

I'm not sure Portugal is a good place for jobs and to make a living ... no one in my family is there anymore and we have closed shop in Lisbon, as the house was simply a monument to nothing. 

Well, at least the father and the library were acquired by the government (the children made a total of ZERO cents for it!), so I guess it can not be that bad ... but I doubt I would be able to live there in my retirement ... and even be allowed to write film reviews as I do now (and not have them censored like dad did!) ... from films from the world over ... well, at least over there I might see a few more European films than I can find here ... the choices here are horrible for the most part in Netflix!

Sadly, or fortunately, I have no feeling or desire to return to Portugal or see anything in Europe ... it's like it's all past history and long gone. 

The only weird part is not having a connection to a portion of your life ... it's like it doesn't exist. Wish I could explain that better, but I can't.

You must have been very lucky here in the US. As far as I am concerned, my greatest desire is to go back to Europe to spend the last years of my life. I'd rather take past history than anything this country has to offer - which, in my case, has been next to nothing. Your statement sounds alarmingly close to what you can read in the Futurist Manifesto, which I am sure you know quite well.

Back to the matter at hand, in Naples they have a saying that, in my view, applies perfectly to the current global situation: "Adda passa' 'a nuttata" - meaning "it can't be night forever".

Now I have an image in my head that I really don't want.

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/07/23/boris-johnson-the-next-human-sacrifice-to-the-brexit-machine" rel="nofollow - http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/07/23/boris-johnson-the-next-human-sacrifice-to-the-brexit-machine

 

People are bored of the monotonous consumerist existence of the neo liberal dream.  They want to shake things up a bit.

 

I'm all for shaking things up and seeing where the pieces land.  Maybe it'll be better, maybe it'll be worse, but it'll be less boring, which is why I say bring on Boris and let's have a bit of entertainment

so what is it to be America...   war with Iran? My bet is placed there.  Britain matched up for short term stupidity..  but still a leg up on long term stupidity..  America should do what it does best.. kill great mass quantities on stupid or non existant pretexes and make those that send others kids off to kill and be killed...the rich that much richer....

that is precisely what a complete moron like Trump and his bootlickers and hawks could easily blunder our way into.. a shooting war with them where there was absolutely no need for before his childish spat of tearing up previous agreements only because his predecessor was the one who made it.

Anyhow.. welcome to the club of having a Clown in Chief to go hand in hand off the cliff with our Toddler in Chief. A match made in heaven... and man do I have the popcorn and beer ready.

I forgot to mention the weather in winter is not rigorous and summers generally not too hot, sea water usually around 20C and we can swim in the ocean from March sometimes until late October.

For now admission is free - ending 24.00 TMG Oct 31 !

Right on.   I feel the same way.   Home is home and if you leave you better be happier in your new country because you may not be able to swing coming back.   If you have a good thing goin' on, hold on to it.   Change is okay, but destruction of what you know & love is a terrible thing.

Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
'Till it's gone    -- Joni Mitchell

Let's hope they pull out in time

This guy Boris is interesting--  I know little about him to the extent anyone can know a politician, but he does have an air of Bill Clinton 'cool' to him.

Oh I'm sure there have been and will be several Lewinskis.

now that's a really interesting perspective.. and on the face of it I agree wholeheartedly.

where I don't is thinking destruction and (re)creation apply on such a limited.. or singular scale. It very much does on a larger scale though. Your point is an apt one but on that larger scale. Your empire went into the toilet.. just as ours blossomed...  and ours is soon to get deep 6'd.. and who do you really think is going to take center stage after we step off it.  it sure isn't going to be you all...

that said..  unless I'm missing something..  that Phoenix arising from the ashes makes for a pretty picture and nice positive thought.  However from what I'm seeing and reading going on there.. there is going to be no Phoenix.. nor any ashes.  There really is no path forward.  There is likely going to be no Brexit...  no agreed one.. nor bailing without a agreement. So where is that going to leave you.. right where you started and where we are here as a nation.. stagnating and slowly falling from the pages of history. All while bickering and infighting about it.  Like it it will likely be a slow and drawn out one.. not a spectacular implosion. And the jury is very much out is there is any real chance your country or mine here has the foresight and political will to make the changes that will be needed to remain where we are.. us the head honcho.. and you guys our loyal sideckicks..

my two cents.. as always..

The point being, WTO is gonna go extinct.  The two emerging market heavyweights, China and India, who were interested in building coalitions in WTO to protect their interests, are themselves more interested in blocs now.  You can create enormous value inside the bloc and those on the outside will be hung out to dry.  Sounds brutal, but this is how it's going to be.  And all this is going on even as Britain is hellbent on ruining a good thing and throwing its lot in with the, wait for it, WTO.  But it won't be THAT.  It will instead be a bear hug of the USA but not on terms very good for the UK.  Why do I say this?  Because, without the EU, UK will need USA far more than the other way round.  Particularly as things stand now, Trump will sweet talk his loyal sycophant Johnson into parting with goodies including, perhaps, the grand prize, the NHS.

Perhaps, one way to look at this is as a last pang of arrogance from those who romanticised the British empire and for the country, already a pale shadow of what it used to be at the height of Pax Britannica, to be brought down on its heels one last time.  But I cannot help but think about those who understood these dangers and opposed and continue to oppose Brexit for all these and other reasons and what are they to do; much the same, if you will, as me sitting in India and shaking my head as some of the sheep now bleat in agony at the soporific budget unveiled by the brave reform warrior that is Modi - well, you didn't use the vote wisely when you had the chance so why whine now.  

What the events rolling through the planet over the last few years bring home with brutal clarity is that democracy is but the tyranny of the majority at the end of the day. 

Britain is shaped like a cock? Damn, girl! What kind of cocks do those German boys have over there? 

SLURP ON THE UK!!!

rogerthat wrote: ^^^ I will add to this an interesting aside.  Our commerce minister, a capable and qualified man unlike *cough cough*, is going around delivering a do or die sermon to various industry sectors.  That we'd better join some or other trading bloc and see some short term bleeding or stay out of it and go into terminal decline.  He didn't say this in as many words but this was the gist.  He predicted that most everyone (every nation that is) would have joined some or other bloc in the next 10-15 years paving the way for borderless movement of goods for all practical purposes.   The point being, WTO is gonna go extinct.  The two emerging market heavyweights, China and India, who were interested in building coalitions in WTO to protect their interests, are themselves more interested in blocs now.  You can create enormous value inside the bloc and those on the outside will be hung out to dry.  Sounds brutal, but this is how it's going to be.  And all this is going on even as Britain is hellbent on ruining a good thing and throwing its lot in with the, wait for it, WTO.  But it won't be THAT.  It will instead be a bear hug of the USA but not on terms very good for the UK.  Why do I say this?  Because, without the EU, UK will need USA far more than the other way round.  Particularly as things stand now, Trump will sweet talk his loyal sycophant Johnson into parting with goodies including, perhaps, the grand prize, the NHS. Perhaps, one way to look at this is as a last pang of arrogance from those who romanticised the British empire and for the country, already a pale shadow of what it used to be at the height of Pax Britannica, to be brought down on its heels one last time.  But I cannot help but think about those who understood these dangers and opposed and continue to oppose Brexit for all these and other reasons and what are they to do; much the same, if you will, as me sitting in India and shaking my head as some of the sheep now bleat in agony at the soporific budget unveiled by the brave reform warrior that is Modi - well, you didn't use the vote wisely when you had the chance so why whine now.   What the events rolling through the planet over the last few years bring home with brutal clarity is that democracy is but the tyranny of the majority at the end of the day.

perhaps the MEGA folk haven't read what No Deal what really entail... but it appears enough in charge have.

A very sobering read btw... for those that think that Phoenix and cute unicorns arise from putting guns at your head and puling the f**king trigger haha

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/07/27/this-is-what-no-deal-brexit-actually-looks-like" rel="nofollow - http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/07/27/this-is-what-no-deal-brexit-actually-looks-like

^ If you will truly be happier elsewhere, then that's what's important.   It's just until you make that move, you won't know.   But you will miss the place you know in ways you don't fully grasp until it happens.

 

I was joking.

  very VERY similar to what have going on here.  Ours here of course is not merely a poltical transformation but one driven by a social transformation here. Though I often joked that Trump was a temporary bedwetting instead of the attempted suicide that is Brexit the long term effects of Trump here might just prove more profound than the likely failure of the Brexit process there.

As I've riffed on repeatedly though.. there is some hope here.  What really is needed in both countries is a big doze of reality and rising about the collective sludge of partisan politics. I think we do have a candidate here for President that can blow up the status quo and turn that slow transformation into a full blown political revolution .. and that is a true appeal to the working class. A dose of reality .. long overdue as to what .. and WHO.. reallly ill them and that will be what this country needs perhaps to break this awful cycle of spinning our tires in the mud and going nowhere that we have been in, and seems like you all are in.

the article I posted yesterday did seem to break things down pretty clear.

the EU is not budging .. nor should it or will it.  The WA is what it is .. take it or stay it.

doesn't seem to be any chance in hell of an about face .. so a negotiated Brexit is likely dead as a door nail

'no deal' ..  not happening. Enough of the ruling class understand it is indeed national suicide to do thus they won't nor will allow Johnson to do so even if he truly believes that is the best way forward. The EU shouldn't push the UK out if Oct. 31st comes around and the UK still has not found a solution. Now what they would do?  I'd be really curious to see what people think they might do.

that leaves 2 solutions.. general elections and/or a 2nd referendum which again Johnson has ruled out but as the article notes..  he may simply have ZERO choice. It sure doesn't seem the Tories will gain a majority without the DUP or the new Brexit Party which again will not allow a negotiated Brexit under what the EU will accept.

a 2nd reforendum? Seems the most likely... but also perhaps the most damaging to Johnson and his ilk.

thoughts from any who know this better than I?

as far the US... good God man. I've pretty much addressed your bafflement over the hundreds of pages of those threads since Nov 2016.  But a quick summation of your thoughts...

Trump and his election were a fluke..  one that can happen again in 2020.. but a fluke all the same.  The country has not moved rightward (ie the jarring shift you see from Obama to Trump).  Romney got 47% of the popular vote in 2012 and got crushed..  Trump got 46% and won.  What changed was not the country moving right.. but in fact moving LEFT!   The problem .. the fluke as it were. .were not those that voted for Trump.. but the millions of Obama voters that did not vote for Hillary.  In particular the 600 thousand Obama voters in 2012 that Hillary lost in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. They didn't vote for Trump, they either sat the election out or voted 3rd party as a protest against both. This leftward shift is part of the political realignment going on here and playing out here.  

Yeah, our new PM is really cool.

Still remember that when Brexit was decided, Bojo was favourite to become PM, but decided not to stand? Instead he let somebody else try to do the messy job that he probably knew he couldn't do. No proper reason for that was given at the time (some said that this was because Gove stabbed him in the back but that's ridiculous - surely he could have won the post without the anyway unpopular Gove as an ally). Actually he did his best to sabotage May while at the same time keeping her in her job (when it came to her Brexit deal, he always voted against her - when it came to her staying as PM, he supported her). 

So now he has the job. What has become better for him since 2016, how has it helped him to first leave the job to May and let her fail? Maybe he thinks that people would be more keen on no deal now that May demonstrated that a deal cannot be done? Or maybe he thinks that he can get some rather cosmetic deal changes out of the EU to sell a slightly updated deal as his own which wouldn't have been accepted before the May disaster? Chances are he hoped that May could get some deal done and he could inherit the PM post from her in post-Brexit Britain without having to do the dirty work himself. This hasn't played out, but I can imagine that he still has a plan - for himself that is. What is it? Any chance for himself to get through this looking reasonably good (I'm not speaking of the country here obviously )?

Never heard of it, or read it, believe it or not. I'm strictly independent and will not side with any "political", "social" alliances that are created to provoke people and destroy artists.

All in all, the only history that matters is the one of NOW and what is called HERE AND NOW ... since the past is, supposedly, something that helps you develop a perspective on your own life, which is another illusion for your imagination.

THE ONLY THING that can create any illusion that might affect your perspective, is about the ability that you might, or might not, have to look inside at your dreams and visions ... something that society works hard to ensure that you can not do, so you do not have a connection to the "father" (as it were!!!) ... and thus, confused, you are always at the mercy of idealism's that are ridiculous and malicious in nature.

They are what Arthur C. Clarke called "The Overlords" ... but, sadly, we don't read anymore and worse than that ... we don't care enough anymore, when some mascara and screaming is more important for a thread, than the discussion of valuable music and the arts!

 and a never too early for me  

bingo.. and why I think he has boxed himself seemingly into a corner with that one plan in mind. And that likely could be?

To hope or push the EU into doing the dirty work for him and giving him a way out of this mess for himself politically .. a 'no deal' exit.. yet when the sh*t hits the fan. Where can he attempt to lay the blame..  and in that he would be right for them being stupid enough to fold when they hold 5 aces in their hand...

It was the EU's fault.. not mine..

I suspect he will blame it all on Teresa May if it all goes t*ts up.

I'm sure the question has arisen there.. sure has here.. why? Why now did he take this when it could have been his in 2016.  If anything it would have made more sense to have passed now.. than it did then.  I mean he might be a politician.. but that does not make one stupid. They do possess in large part an animal cunning geared to their own political advavncement.. and survival if need be.  I do think there is something to the post earlier.  Boris may well have a plan out of this.. otherwise he would be forced to go back on promises made.. and as often noted.. inject reality into a situation where fantasy still holds large sway.

If the sh*t hits the fan.. blaming May isn't going to save him...  the only real place blame could be laid for economic and systematic collapse would be the EU thus I think he will try to force them to kick the UK out thus .. and rightfully so to be perfectly blunt placing the blame on them... not that it really would matter to most of course .. but again he is a politician..disconnected from our realities in large part...so what happens to the peons is really of little concern in their personal political calculus. 

I agree with micky. It's not that people couldn't wait for him to take over. He is currently only elected by 90,000 Tory members, that's some 0.2% of the country. Some have big hopes, but probably more are appalled and think (rightly) that his role has been largely negative already up to now. As was correctly written in one of the linked articles, he has already made big promises and has severely restricted his space for manoevre. Many are out to eat him alive if he screws up. The only thing I can imagine is that the failure of May can make it easier for him to sell whatever he has on offer (and be it no deal) to an increasingly desperate parliament. But has he anything even remotely convincing to sell? I don't see that. I'm pretty sure he will first try to renegotiate the deal. He won't get much out of the EU but he may get something... we shouldn't forget that a number of EU countries are ruled by people of his kind who may think helping him will be to their own advantage at some point (for example Italy's government is full of EU sceptics and even enemies, there's Poland, Hungary...). Otherwise he'll probably try no deal. Still I don't see anything emerging behind which he can get a majority in parliament.

Oh wait... if he doesn't get one, there may be general elections (which he can blame on others if he doesn't get whatever or no deal through parliament), and he may trust in his campaigning abilities and Corbyn's fading popularity to win an absolute majority or maybe in coalition with the Brexit party. Nothing safe though, he may have already pissed off too many.

I really doubt it...  I've read quite a bit of the suspicians of what drives Brexiteer politics and is not simply getting Brexit.  Ie keeping the issue alive is good for them politically... I doubt any kind of WA gets through with the present government.. and that same is not going to allow a instigated 'no deal' withdraw so perhaps again he hopes the EU bails him out and doesn't extend the deadline thus a crashing out which he could rationally spin to blame them.. for not giving him enough time to fix this.  I really can't see the EU doing that. which again brings us to.. where it is at now..  no path forward but the one those in charge don't want..

new elections or a 2nd referendum

anyhow.. back to the more interesting at the moment stuff..

Vompatti wrote: Congratulations to all Britons, finally you have a leader who might actually get some things done!

 

haha...there will be no precise pissing from Boris, he is piss the country all up the wall

We have had some shocking PMs: Lord North who lost America... to the American's, in 1776, a bit careless; Neville Chamberlain who thought Hitler was actually quite a nice and misunderstood man and waved a bit of paper to prove it... 

In the future (if such a thing exists after these moronic leaders) British school history lessons will include some colossal total clusterf**k that Barmy Boris has inflicted on this country.

Certainly Corbyn wasn't like that in the past. Well, one can say many things against Corbyn, but on Brexit I can very well understand his not-really-here-not-really-there position. True, he has changed his mind about what exactly to do a few times, but ultimately it was always clear that he was never passionate about either the EU or Brexit; probably he belongs to those who think that a European Union could be good in principle, but the way it is currently run runs counter to what he'd like - but then this isn't worse than having a Tory government at home (the things Corbyn dislikes most about the EU have been supported or were even started by British governments at the time). So he has some flexibility there and not really a clear stance on his own, which I find OK given that it wasn't him or his party who started the whole damn thing. Obviously the fact that he doesn't have any enthusiasm either way makes him unpopular with most voters these days. That's just tough luck for him, but I wouldn't hold it against him. Actually I can even imagine that with a majority behind him he could have negotiated a soft Brexit/customs union compromise that could have worked OKish, I mean better than anything that the UK might be facing now. 

 

Yes, he might waste £40 million on a bridge across the Thames or £300K on some water cannons that don't get used.

The EU isn't likely at all to allow it by failing to extend as they can afford to be patient and let this go to its inevitable conclusion. a new general election to break the stalemate unless the WA is somehow approved..... and BJ can't do it as Commons won't let it happen

so how does a 'no deal' realistically happen.. that is more a question that hasn't been answered either here or in anything I've read.. than a statement.

If I had water cannons I would most definitely use them.

Hell yeah... never had the chance to blast someone with a water cannon but have been on the receiving end .. the night we nearly burned Stillwater down after beating OU in football for the first time in nearly 30 years. What a night that was. I may even have a couple of kids I don't know of kicking around.  Good thing I was feeling no pain..because that might have hurt.

Blacksword wrote:   but on reflection he is not a leader. A bloody good MP, but not a leader,

I'm pretty much 100% with you here.

Johnson is not much different from Trump. They even look alike.

but Trump.. forget about.. i'd be just as happy to puke that bottle back up all over his shoes and go home sexless.. it happens even to best of us.

I really haven't seen much of the fairer sex of UK poli's ..  now we do have some lookers here.. yes we do...but  hopefully for our UK friends they have a bit more ..umm...inspirational figures than Thatcher or May.. 

I clicked... then saw the headline of the article you posted.. and immediately clicked out.   As I've alluded to often in the American Politics Thread I am extremely picky in where my get my information, opinions and analysis and avoid like the plague obviously slanted or bias sources of information. That headline screamed.. axe to grind..  and I have no time for stuff like that. 

my opinion...  that is Britain's problem.. and likely the least of a good many problems they have to say nothing of Brexit and how they either implement the 'popular will' and not become a literal 3rd world nation, a vassal state beholden to its far more larger and powerful powers around it  or escape Brexit and political chaos that will likely result from giving a big middle finger to those that voted for it.

^ Great point about an 'axe to grind'.   I too found the article lacking in any real insight or objectivity.   He chose who he wants to work for him from a pool of less than desirable people just like most politicians do.   Many don't even seem to know how government really works.   In the US if a conservative hired someone who is pro-choice or has made pro gun control statements, they get flack for it and the bowels of government continue to move because someone has to do the work.

Probably one of the few pieces of insightful wisdom you've posted in years

you've got some catching up to do then 

  amen to that.  I really have become a stickler for objectivity in poltiical articles. Oh it does exist but one has to look for it. Most of the major media outlets it has become less about delivering the 'news' but more messages tailored to their audiences. Business and ratings matter more than delivering the 'news' per se.

Oh yeah FAUX is by far the worst and most notorious but they aren't alone. I didn't stay on the linked article for any longer than it took to see the headline but assume with that kind of lack of any even veneer of journalistic norms.. it probably was some article that some loser in mama's basement wrote. Oh sure Ompha loves his/her right wing stuff and throws it in any post they make.. but don't suspect there aren't more than few leftie wackos out there living in semi detached bubbles of the reality of their own choosings. Perhaps they are right on BJ's cast of carnies... but .. well.. hahah..  who really cares i guess. Look at our we have here...  sheesh..  

As usual, John Oliver has a funny take on this...