Judas Priest
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: General Music Discussions
Forum Description: Discuss and create polls about all types of music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=118154
Printed Date: February 16 2025 at 22:08
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Judas Priest
Posted By: charles_ryder
Subject: Judas Priest
Date Posted: January 11 2019 at 01:38
When I'm hearing some Judas Priest albums it's seems to me I listen some prog elements, or maybe they'll play something prog related the next moment. I'm alone? Or someone more listen this prog elements? ------------- om mani padme hum |
Replies:
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: January 11 2019 at 02:01
You're alone. They're a heavy metal band...  ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Davesax1965
Date Posted: January 11 2019 at 05:15
|
Yes, got to agree, "heavy metal". All right, they did a few unusual songs like "The Green Manalishi", Peter Green cover, but they're heavy metal. You could include Black Sabbath in the "prog" category as some of their earlier stuff is more "progressive", small "p", but the problem with this site is that prog rock is seen as being a very broad church and things get included which shouldn't be, probably due to the lack of genuine stuff to talk about. ;-) ------------- |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: January 11 2019 at 05:23
|
A lot of heavy metal has some prog influence, because the band members listened to prog growing up. It doesn't make them prog related in any meaningful way. Bruce Dickinson and Steve Harris of Iron Maiden are big prog fans, and legend has it that one of the reasons Harris decided to form a heavy metal band instead of a prog rock band, is because he knew they would get the sh*t kicked out of them in the East End pubs of London, during the punk explosion, if they tried to play prog rock to that audience. Metal was a suitable compromise between punk and prog. You can hear prog rock influences in anything from Manowar to Metallica, but they're still just good ole heavy metal. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: charles_ryder
Date Posted: January 11 2019 at 05:52
 A good legend! Mayby not the only legend but something more real.------------- om mani padme hum |
Blacksword wrote:Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: January 11 2019 at 05:57
|
if I remember right, they were discussed for prog related but rejected. still one of my favorite heavy metal bands.
|
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: January 11 2019 at 06:18
|
They are a heavy metal band for sure but the album NOSTRADAMUS is a good case for prog related. Their medicore attempt at a concept album that takes up two discs but even considering that album prog would be stretching it. I think of it more as art metal. Prog elements don't make a prog album. Which elements are you referring to exactly? Every band has tiny snippets of prog somewhere hiding but not enough to be called prog!  -------------  https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: charles_ryder
Date Posted: January 11 2019 at 08:33
I mean rather some "sense of prog", not the prog elements stricto sensu. And I'm ineteresting has someone the similar sense. Now it's clear to me, and I'm agree: the singular elements of prog doesn't makes the music of the band progressive. ------------- om mani padme hum |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: January 11 2019 at 09:47
|
As stated they would not fit a prog-related category, which I actually hate that descriptor, everyone is "prog-related" especially if you started out in the 70's. Back then you could easily have listened to Judas Priest, Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Pink Floyd, Yes and Genesis and never thought once what the sub-genre was. As you say the sense of prog is there..... Go to the MetalMusicArchives where the Priest lives better.... -------------   
|
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: January 11 2019 at 11:11
|
I'm voting yes on how I understand the question as illustrated and interpret the phrasing of the question. While I would not endorse the inclusion of Judas Priest in Prog Archives and would not describe Judas Priest as a Prog Related band, I hear a Heavy Prog Relation in music off the early Judas Priest albums albums such as Sad Wings of Destiny and Rocka Rolla and a Prog Metal Relation in Nostradamus. So when voting "yes" I'm rephrasing the question from "Isn't Priest a Prog Related Band?" to "Is Priest a Prog Related Band?" (to avoid possible confusion as it's been phrased in the negative form), then to "Does Judas Priest have music with a Prog relation?" I think that JP has music that is comparable to music we have in PA such as Black Sabbath and other music on the Heavy Metal/ Hard Bluesy Rock side that we have in PA (that said, I do think that BS had the stronger case for inclusion). Indeed there is a huge amount of music from the 70s that had Prog elements or a Prog influence without necessarily being considered Prog or Prog Related. Last night I was listening again to Parliament's first album Osmium, and like early Funkadelic, there is a "Progginess" to it (sorry if that P word annoys). I'm reminded of an old discussion where Funkadelic was suggested (not by me) for inclusion, and there seemed to be claims that Funkadelic/ Parliament has nothing to do with Prog or was a completely ludicrous suggestion, which I found rather baffling as P-Funk has music that clearly has a Prog Relation to my ears, which is not to say that it/they should be included in the Archives. There are a great many such cases. |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: January 11 2019 at 11:30
|
If you want the blow by blow discussion I have the thread for you. http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=47114&KW=judas+priest&PID=2793608#2793608" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=47114&KW=judas+priest&PID=2793608#2793608 ------------- 
|
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: January 11 2019 at 12:07
^ That was an interesting discussion. While I didn't add much to it, it did get me to explore more Judas Priest. It's interesting to compare that discussion with this one -- there generally was more "fire" and hard debate in the forums back then. It was subsequently suggested for inclusion several times, this is another of the longer threads: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=82433" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=82433 (this time from 2011).
They can be a Heavy Metal band and have a Prog Relation, and the evidence of the many threads suggesting Judas Priest for PA inclusion suggests to me that the OP is not alone, but perhaps I'm misunderstanding your position and/ or you were just being sarcastic (I've been told that I don't get irony, ironically, when I was responding to someone ironically in a self-deprecating manner). It's hard to read people online in a sufficiently nuanced and charitable manner sometimes, and I try to be liberal-minded when it comes to such discussions (i.e. keep an open mind). |
Posted By: Squonk19
Date Posted: January 11 2019 at 15:36
Never thought of them as remotely 'prog' at the time I saw them at their heavy metal peak in the 70s/80s - although certain tracks from Sad Wings of Destiny and even later on with Nostrodamus had proggy leanings. Can I nominate 'United' as the least proggy song of all time  I think I'll start a thread on the progressive majesty of Lieutenant Pigeon's 'Mouldy Old Dough'  ------------- Living in their pools, they soon forget about the sea. |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: January 11 2019 at 15:39
|
Like the pic of them above....they must have had a sale on leather jackets one size too small. ;) ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 11 2019 at 18:00
damn.. a literal greatest hits thread of many of our dearly departed forum greats.. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: January 11 2019 at 19:04
It's called progression man, people find other krapp to do........My question is why did they never come back? I miss TheProgtologist..... -------------
|
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 11 2019 at 19:11
|
well in all honestly Jose.. you've been around long enough to know this.. this forum isn't what it used to be and is rehashes (like this thread) of topics done many many times over the years. pluse there is my theory on the state of prog today and the disintegration of what we once had as far as a prog community.. it really has fragmented and this site is not the meeting place or ground zero of prog it once was. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: January 11 2019 at 19:17
I know...  ....and I agree with you unfortunately. -------------
|
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: January 11 2019 at 19:28
|
I want somebody to explain WHY they think Judas Priest is prog related. NOT that Metallica is here so why not them etc. Details! Which elements of Judas Priest qualify? Personally i own every friggin album and find zero reason to even consider them. Yes, they are a classic heavy metal band, but prog? REALLY? ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: January 11 2019 at 19:49
|
Possibly the quintessential (if not best) heavy metal band. They practically define that genre. Prog related is pushing it, though they did have lots of songs with dramatic pacing and multiple sections beyond verse/chorus/bridge. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 12 2019 at 06:06
|
I brought it up then and still applies now... debating prog related is missing the whole point. proto-prog... not your daddies prog.. but the kiddies prog... proto prog-metal. They were the template for that whole offshoot of classic prog. Compare the Priest and Yes, K.C. or ELP and yeah.. it is silly.. compare them and their legacy of prog to the greats of prog metal and you might see the reason why some were so inclned to add them to the site. this site bordered on the edge of really being a source of information and education... and boy did we have some battles here between the conservative and progressive views of what this site should be.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: January 12 2019 at 06:26
|
I don't think the OP wanted to suggest the addition of Judas Priest to the database - somethingum that has been suggested (and shot down) multiple times - but the presence of prog elements in their music. If you listen to the band's first four albums, these elements are undeniable. With the release of Killing Machine/Hell Bent for Leather in late 1978, JP took a definite heavy metal direction, cemented by British Steel two years later. Anyway, while they were influential for the development of progressive metal, I believe Black Sabbath's influence to be much greater in regard to progressive rock. At least half of the modern bands in the Psych/Space category would not exist without Black Sabbath. |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: January 12 2019 at 06:43
True. That's why i added Sad WIngs Of Destiny to my list of albums that were fundamental in creating progressive metal. Still though, i don't think that's what the prog related tag is for. Neither the proto, no? http://rateyourmusic.com/list/siLLy_puPPy/albums-that-were-fundamental-in-creating-progressive-metal/" rel="nofollow - https://rateyourmusic.com/list/siLLy_puPPy/albums-that-were-fundamental-in-creating-progressive-metal/ ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: January 12 2019 at 07:07
| About as prog related as Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Uriah Heep etc. |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: January 12 2019 at 13:13
I agree, as I said the sense of prog is there in some of their songs for sure. Should they be listed on this site, prolly not. Should some of their songs, yes.....(runs and hides)  .-------------
|
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: January 12 2019 at 13:42
Not sure i'd totally agree. Uriah Heep had two bona fide prog albums. Zeppelin had prog songs like Stairway To Heaven and Deep Purple had full blown classical / rock hybrids in the 60s, Now Sabbath is about as prog related as Priest i will agree. Slightly prog leaning at moments but never really went all the way like the other bands did. Might as well expand the definition. From now on, any artist that has breathed the same air as a progger is in the club ------------- https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: January 12 2019 at 16:00
|
Sorry if I'm repeating myself somewhat: Some Prog elements/ qualities or leanings is all it needs to answer the question in the affirmative in the way that I interpret the OP. This doesn't imply that JP should be included in Prog Archives as a Prog Related band, or fits those criteria, and I didn't think that was the purpose of this thread. To me, however loosely, early Judas Priest made Heavy Prog-related music (it is at least related in its relationship to rock). I would say the Judas Priest is more closely related to Progressive Rock than, say, The Andrews Sisters, but I would argue that The Andrews Sisters has some relation. It's a question of degree. Stairway to Heaven doesn't strike me as a Prog proper song, it has similarities, but Prog and what we musically relate to Prog can be in the ear of the behearer.
I get some sense of Prog in some of the music. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: January 14 2019 at 00:56
No sarcasm. I regard them as a heavy metal band. Their prog influence is evident here and there throughout their catalogue, but they wouldn't be suitable for inclusion here under, say Prog Related. The emphasis is too much on metal. I feel the same about Maiden, although IIRC, they are listed here for some reason. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Davesax1965
Date Posted: January 14 2019 at 02:36
|
Sorry, doing slightly varying arpeggios is ..... well. It's not prog. ------------- |
Posted By: LAM-SGC
Date Posted: January 14 2019 at 11:28
|
That's what heavy metal sounds like. "prog" (whatever that is) does not have a monopoly on sounds and styles. Similar sounds and effects exist across all musical genres. I wish people would stop talking about "prog" influences and sounds, what you hear in Judas Priest is heavy metal sounds, effects and influences. |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: January 14 2019 at 11:39
|
For me "prog" and "metal" are siblings, yonger siblings of "psych" and children of styles that predates psych, like beat, mods, and baroque pop -------------  
|
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: January 14 2019 at 12:24
It looks like we may have interpreted the original post differently. While I don't think that Judas Priest should be included in PA anywhere (not that I'd be totally opposed to the idea as I personally don't care that much either way), I didn't think that was the intention of this topic. To me it was enough to vote yes if you noticed some prog relation in the music of Judas Priest, and I do and, it seems to me, clearly many others do to or else Judas Priest wouldn't have been suggested various times over the years. I notice a prog relation in the music of a tonne of bands and artists that I would not endorse for Prog Archives inclusion. To me it seems clear just by reading what others have said in various threads here over the years that the OP is not alone, unless I'm somehow totally misunderstanding his feelings and other peoples feelings, and possibly even my own. Who know what lurks in the hearts of men, other than the shadow. I have a very liberal mindset -- I don't accept anything as 100 percent certain, and am open to new evidence and ideas. Perhaps I got everything wrong, I can't read other people's minds and I can't trust my own (assuming I have one). EDIT: I think that I may have misinterpreted you. When you said "you are alone", I assumed that you meant that no one could share the same perspective or hear the music like the OP does, which logically one could not know or even assume to be true, but instead I think that you just meant that you do not hear things the same. He is alone in regards to you not sharing the same perspective. I should have thought of that before -- comprehension can be challenging online and offline and these days I need more time to parse/ unpack/ grok what people probably mean, but I've always been prone to such error when not carefully pondering what people say or write, and sometimes I'm too literal-minded. |
Posted By: charles_ryder
Date Posted: January 15 2019 at 23:35
Sorry if I expressed my idea indistinctly, and people needs to use the hermeneutics to understand it.  I meaned very simple thing: prog for me is not the long compositions with arpegios and atonal sounds. Rather it's for me is the certain mood or feelings, maybe the legacy of psych, as Icarium said. And when I listen some Judas Priest things I feeling this mood. I'm wonder, maybe I'm not alone on this Earth. Here not need neither Gadamer nor Jaspers cause I meaned literally what I mean.
------------- om mani padme hum |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: January 16 2019 at 01:24
| The debut is at best "Aproximative Rock", but Sad Wings is as close as they got to prog. |
Posted By: albeldo
Date Posted: January 16 2019 at 10:36
Posted By: rubenleonmx Date Posted: March 09 2024 at 19:25
Posted By: Hrychu Date Posted: March 09 2024 at 20:54
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson Date Posted: March 09 2024 at 22:23
Posted By: Saperlipopette! Date Posted: March 09 2024 at 22:33
Posted By: Hrychu Date Posted: March 09 2024 at 23:46
Posted By: Saperlipopette! Date Posted: March 10 2024 at 00:08
Posted By: Hrychu Date Posted: March 10 2024 at 00:24
Posted By: Hrychu Date Posted: March 10 2024 at 00:30
Posted By: Hrychu Date Posted: March 10 2024 at 00:40
Posted By: Saperlipopette! Date Posted: March 10 2024 at 01:49
Posted By: Hrychu Date Posted: March 10 2024 at 08:07
Posted By: Saperlipopette! Date Posted: March 10 2024 at 08:27
Posted By: rushfan4 Date Posted: March 10 2024 at 09:12
|
| Print Page | Close Window
Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com Copyright ©2001-2014 Web Wiz Ltd. - http://www.webwiz.co.uk |