so how is MMEB bubblegum then?

In opposition of more intelligent pop like rock, new wave, synthpop etc.

But as the users of this forum are strongly against anything that resembles popmusic (prog is actually popmusic), they like to bash all bands that score hitsingles.

So, Queen, ELP, Manfred Mann's Earthband etc. are all crap and bubblegum.

are you serious?

Can't be because it's simply not true. 

having watched a bit, I can say there's no such thing as bubblegum prog. 

if people call out prog bands that are easy to listen to as bubblegum, go ahead, whatever...

quite a few negative threads around these days, guess some enjoy that. :(

 

 

Just out of curiosity, are you really a prog nut?  haha ha.....

what's a prog nut? 

Calling one band better than the other and just bashing whole genres is very childish.

I must admit I quite like this thing called bubblegum-pop. But only to some extend. Same goes for deathmetal and rapmusic. Because too much of a good thing is never good.

All music is created to be enjoyed. So why not enjoy it?

I think in secrecy people who create these negative threads are actually liking these genres and bands but are afraid to admit it, because they want to appear as intellectuals.

There's nothing so ignorant and stupid than bashing bands and genres you supposedly don't like.

It reads like the same story as Punk, Glamrock and Eurohouse.
Is seems all the 'made-up' genres followed eachother, up until this day.

 But in the days of bubblegum, progrock did not exist yet. I think the greatest counterparts were psychedelic rock and rhythm and blues.

Careful you don't hurt yourself coming off that high horse.

Yeah. I just fell into my own trap. A part of being a snob is calling other snobs snobs.

You haven't lived until you've chewed a piece of ABC gum in 9/8

You are right.

That's why I shouldn't be on forums in the first place. I always do that.

But it's some sort of addiction, I guess.

Also I turned in my sense of humor a long time ago.

As far as Rush is concerned, they should have written Moving Pictures 2 instead of Signals if they wanted to line their pockets. They could have done that. They chose not to. You can say a lot of things about Rush's 80s output but "cash grab" is not one of them. Yeah, the albums did well but if they truly wanted to cash in, they could have gone the Journey/Foreigner/Van Hagar route. They didn't do that.  

And to call The Police or The Fixx bubblegum or garbage is beyond me.

"Owner of a Lonely Heart."  

At the 40th Anniversary concert in Chicago, there were many families including parents and their young "tween" daughters.  

When OOALH was played, said tweens gave out a collective squeal of delight = the definition of bubblegum.  

Howe, on the other hand, looked like he had just eaten a rabbit poo sandwich as soon as he started to play that song.  (Tip o' the hat to Lazland for the "rabbit poo" analogy). 

no, this is how some people named the Sammy Hagar years with Van Halen. Obviously "Van Hagar" is meant to be a derogatory term. 

You wouldn't be the first person to abandon Rush after MP. Yes, Signals, and subsequent albums were quite different than Rush's 70s output and they went pretty heavily into synths, as many, many 70s rock bands did in the 80s. Bigger hair, more synths, more power ballads, more music in general from bands in the 70s that rocked and now in the 80s were venturing from rock to a more adult contemporary sounding music. No question about that but again to say that Rush went that way in order to line their pockets is simply wrong. 

To be fair - I'm offering that as an explanation to attempt to exonerate the Rush trio - I can forgive the output due to greed - they are only human....Mind you if you are saying that they went that way because they thought it was better.....how come they didn't do any track longer than six minutes?? - They could have done a couple of nostalgic releases surely?

Sure. Owner of a Lonely Heart sounds just like it was written for the Archies or the Monkees in the 60s/70s.

Good lord, if we actually think that Owner of a Lonely Heart is an example of bubblegum rock then I just don't know what to say anymore. I think people need to brush up on the bands that are considered to be bubblegum and exactly the type of music they were producing. 

Exactly. Well said.

I just think your premise that the music they produced in the 80s was primarily motivated by greed is flat out wrong. Yes, every band wants to be successful and make money. However, as I said, if Rush really wanted to go that route, they should have made another album that sounded like MP. THAT'S where the money was. 

All I can tell you is what I have seen and read in countless interviews, books, and Beyond The Lighted Stage. In all of that one theme has always come through. Rush has always moved forward and they always thought that their latest release was better than the last. (something that I don't always agree with) They may explore some similar themes and sounds from album to album but they never make the same album again. I would have loved it if they had made another Farewell To Kings or Hemispheres but that's not what they are about nor have they ever been about that. Rush doesn't really do nostalgia. The closest they got to that would be the album, Feedback. They have also stated in interviews why they stopped making longer songs. (although their last three albums contain some songs that break the 6 minute mark) 

I think the name for the band "2018 Fruitgum Corporation" ... would be appropriate!

Here is your answer. A veritable Electric Light Orchestra clone. Complete with slick pop sweetness and adventurous compositional constructs. Enter the BUBBLE GUM ORCHESTRA

https://rateyourmusic.com/artist/bubble_gum_orchestra" rel="nofollow - Bubble Gum Orchestra Albums: songs, discography, biography, and listening guide - Rate Your Music

http://www.mwe3.com/reviews/BGO-OOTW/" rel="nofollow - CD/DVD Reviews

From Wikipedia: 

The 90125 Yes was essentially an engineered product, fusing Yes West with Anderson.  OAALH was a radio single that appealed to the bubble-gum audience, which gave Yes a much needed financial boost.  Other examples could include Asia (Heat of the Moment), GTR and a handful of other AOR prog bands in that era.  

Not that all of the music was bad, but it was crafted for commercial success and aimed squarely at the little girl market.  

Barclay James Harvest released an instrumental glam/pop/bubblegum song 1n 1972 called 'Breathless' under the moniker of 'Bombadil'... listen to those glitter band hand clap/ foot stomps..

Apparently when 'The Wombles' were making hit singles such as 'remember you're a Womble' (ahem.. yes..) it was Mike Batt who had been producing Steeleye Span at the time so they ended up producing some of the musical backing...

T Rex were definitely a teeny bop pop band verging on bubblegum.. and my wife will take a frying pan to me for saying it... yeah, glam I suppose like early The Sweet'... yet some of those songs are so so catchy and of course the early Tyrannosaurus rex phase was more interesting by far (but a lot less lucrative)

I just asked a YouTube prog guru: Can you rank best to worse The Banana Splits next??

Yes and Rush already had big hitsingles. They just tried something different and more modern when they entered the 80's.

Trevor Horn was a producer and he helped Yes with their 80's albums but so was Tony Clarke who helped the Moody Blues and Rupert Hine who helped The Fixx and so on and so on.

Even the Beatles had a fifth member (can't remember his name).

Asia and Yes weren't aiming at preteen-girls, I think they more aimed at rock-fans. They wanted to be arenarock-bands like Journey and Boston and Chicago.

Okay. I can agree to disagree. It's fine. I just can't consider 90125 to be anywhere near what I consider to be true bubblegum pop/rock. Just because music may be, as you say, an engineered product doesn't mean it's automatically analogous to bubblegum.

I think the band was surprised at the success of the album, it was not even supposed to be a Yes album. But I guess with 4 former Yes members, it made sense to call themselves Yes. I wonder had the band been called Cinema, would it have been as successful? 

A lot of bands/artists mentioned here are just an easy listen indeed, but that does not make them bubblegum. 

(the video posted above explains what bubblegum music is, it's pretty clear, so I'll say it again, no offense, there's no such thing as bubblegum prog). 

Not at all!  Such image crafting was a feature of music back in that era (late 1970s through early 1980s). 

90125 as a whole was not bubble-gum, but the single OOALH was.  It was formulaic and derived specifically for radio play, something Squire had longed to do for many years, returning to the earlier roots of Yes, which had more of a pop sensitivity.  

Asia similarly had image crafting - I am sure that they were seeking to harvest the AOR audiences for successful bandts like Journey, but John Wetton was transformed from "signing bass player" of King Crimson and UK into "hunk bass player and front man."  Pete Cetera, bassist and frontman from Chicago underwent the same transformation, and journeyman rocker Peter Frampton's visage graced the bedroom walls of many young ladies (I saw this at the houses of my friends, whose younger sisters had rooms dedicated to Frampton!).  

Genesis continued with the bubble gum formula, very successfully.  At this point in their careers, I think old-time prog musicians decided that making complex music for fans like us was a losing proposition, financially.  

So, bubblegum prog did exist and even flourish for a while.  

I think all those bands started to follow a pop formula. Pop is not always bubblegum. I think that's where we are having our disconnect. You seem to want to equate all image crafting as bubblegum. I just don't see it that way. Just because John Wetton was singing Heat Of The Moment and had adopted a more commercial sound and look doesn't automatically make that song, bubblegum. Just because a song is formulaic and derived specifically for radio play doesn't automatically make it bubblegum. 

It was not a term referenced for any other types of pop rock, rock, or prog rock....so Bubblegum prog is a misnomer .

What is being talked about here is more commercial prog rock.....and by that definition any band who had a radio friendly song/hit would be doing bubblegum prog rock....which imho is not Bubblegum  music .

I do not believe that Yes or Asia or ELO were writing these songs for teenyboppers and young girls but they were writing them to be more commercial to perhaps sell a record or two. That's not Bubblegum imho and the definitions on various web pages clearly show this . To call it bubblegum prog is playing fast and loose with the original intention of the term.

Sigh....where;s Dean when you need him?

;)

Thank you!  I only know what I've witnessed, having spent time in the recording industry and as a practicing musician.  

Music producers always aim for the dispensable income stream, and the young are a prime target.  This was parodied in the movie "This Is Spinal Tap," when the band was humbled for their draw to young, teen-age boys!  That demographic built and sustained many bands including Kiss, and made them rich.  I don't think serious audiophiles were collecting their LPs . 

When I think of "bubblegum," I think of music that might be played at a teenage girl sleepover party.  OAALH was one of those songs, as were some songs by Frampton, Asia, Genesis/Phil Collins etc.  Maybe I'm stretching the definition of "bubblegum" a bit, but that is how I witnessed it at the time.  

I doubt if they were playing much King Crimson at those parties.

LOL!  I enjoy all sorts of music, and much popular music was cleverly composed and performed, despite insipid lyrics.  

When I was growing up, I practically lived at a friend's house, and he had a bunch of younger sisters who were into their brand of pop music and bubblegum.  Back in those years (early 1970s in USA), popular bands included the Partridge Family, Bay City Rollers and others.  (my friend and I would hunker down and listen to Led Zeppelin, Humble Pie and eventually Yes and ELP).

Here, have some!  The clothes, haircuts and stage vibe were all aimed directly at the little lassies!!  

What? No flowers in your hair?

The shame! The total shame! 

I thought that most of America, at least in a college town and big city (we were in Madison, WI), were less into these things, than some more serious music. Many bands got the attention in Chicago, that Madison did not get, but I only remember Madison as having Herman and the Hermits ... not many others. Madison was too hip (huge university town!) for these bubblegum things, and the girls at West High (smelly witches in hair coloring!) did not like Chicago, or Jimi, or Janis, because they were anti-establishment. Those same girls also went around saying they were wirgeens, and were not as clean cut as they made out to be. At least, in our case, us rebels and liberals and against the war, we stood up and were not as hippocritical about many of those personal things.

The only thing I thought was bad about many of those songs and bands you mention, is that they were quite obviously ignoring what was happening, not only around the country, but also around the world. 20 some years later, one of those folks had the gall to say that they had the more important thing going by trying to center people, than all that political divisiveness that took place. It was, undoubtedly a great example of the very rich in America not giving a damn ... and all I can think is ... CCR singing and screaming that song! 

Mind you, at Madison West High, there were a lot less "lassies" into that kind of bubble gum, than getting laid and having fun at a party on campus! I can't imagine Chicago being so cardboard'ish!

Thanks, you beat me to it!  

Listen closely to even the most cloying of popular music...there is nearly always something musically redeeming to it, or else it wouldn't have made it past the many professional musicians, engineers and producers who have a say in what gets released. 

Rick Wakeman played keys on this song, which I enjoy a great deal....also, the young lady dancing is wearing perhaps the shortest skirt I've seen in years! 

Never did, actually. Even in Brazil, I already had been into Maria Betania (Brazilian Joan Baez before her, but much harder hitting!) and into Beatles and Rolling Stones and Ray Charles. The "softest" I ever got was "I Can't Stop Loving You" by Ray, an album I loved dearly.

When we came to the States, it was Bob Dylan on the 3rd day here (Blonde on Blonde) and the bloomfield/Kooper albums, which I do not know which ... around October 1965. After that it was all about the station in Madison, including things like Doors, and other bands once an hour, until a couple of years later, when FM hit it big, and Madison was at its forefront. History seems to suggest that Madison's university (of Wisconsin) was at the forefront of it. And they were playing full sides of Moody Blues, Procol Harum, Bob Dylan, and the hipper stuff. 

It was during that time that I knew that the bubblegum stuff was not for me, and neither was the hit factory thing, making it look like a fake song was number one, when it wasn't ... it really was propaganda, same as today. There is no "#1" because these do not measure the sales from the many websites at all, to have any good idea of what is really selling or not.

When we went to California (1971) it was all FM radio in Santa Barbara, mostly the one station that started from nothing and went to number 1 in 3 months, because of its incredible freedom and variety of music, which also helped Space Pirate Radio get its start.

 

I just HAD to check this thread out to find out what on earth  Bubblegum Prog is all about. Maybe Glencoe are Bubblegum Prog.  I've just suggested them for inclusion in the Crossover Prog section.

Kingsnake wrote:

That was fascinating. I never heard of some of those acts. Damn catchy stuff for sure

Edit: Actually I don't really think any of those are bubblegum. In fact I can't really think of any because(to me at least)the term bubblegum prog is a bit of an oxymoron.

I think bubblegum has a certain quality though and not just anything pop. Bubblegum typically was a certain syrupy "sunny" kind of sound from around 1966 to about 1972 or so. A lot of stuff in the charts then was pure bubblegum. 

Yeah but since no such thing exists in prog then the closest thing is progressive pop. So if that doesn't qualify then bubblegum prog just doesn't exist. If you're comparing to the sunshine pop of the 60s then i cannot think of one single example because the whole point of prog is to NOT be bubblegum pop.

 

Kate Bush bubblegum?

Wuthering Heights? I retracted this. There's not such thing as bubblegum prog. I was only speculating the closest possible candidates.