I don't want to live, but I don't want to die either. What should I do?

I am getting so frustrated of being frustrated. What should I do?

(HINT: I DON'T want to become a Christian.)

JOREN:if you are asking these questions with sincerity and cannot find a path then do not close of all your options without first examining them

until recently, i thought as you until i found there was a great difference between the christianity as perceived by the cynic and the hatemonger(easily found, even in these forums) and the christian values as expressed by christ.

choose your path but do not put up the stop sign until you have travelled the path of all options.

like you i do not want to die either(having seen to much death in the past three years )and i ask myself "what is there beyond this life, where wil i be when i close my eyes for the last time?"

it is an important question and worthy of careful thought.

BY THE WAY, I DO HOPE YOU ARE BEING SERIOUS AND NOT  MOCKING,I HOPE MY FAITH IN YOU MATURITY RE THIS ISSUE IS JUSTIFIED

To die.....

I have some philosophical point of view that I try to don't forget.

- To live without thinking of his own dead, life is too short to make a mess on it

- To know that dying is unavoidable (don't fear the Reaper if it is possible)

- His own dead is not terrible (we have never heard a dead complains) but all kind of sufferings are awfull and evidently the death of childrens, parents or friends are unendurable.

- What is there beyond life, I really don't care as it is another story. I don't want that the life beyond life (if that exist) influence my own life.

Joren I am uneasy : it is a game, a joke or it is serious ?

It was not a joke.

I discovered about 4 years ago that I am going to die (once).

When you are a little kid, you think the life you're leading is never going to end.

When I discovered this is not true, that was a slap in the face.

Life keeps on dissappointing me. Getting older is terrible, I am eighteen now, but I already think like an elderly when it's my birthday: "Now I'm going to die a year sooner".

I passed my finals and now It's the holidays. Hooray. It's terrible. I have to have driving lessons and I don't want it. I want to do something nice or creative but I can't find courage or inspiration.

Very often, I feel like an embittered, old man.

Joren,

Strange...

It is strange but my son Thibault has the same point of view but he is only 13 years old.

I have longly discussed with him and discovered 2 or 3 points :

- the fear of death has an obscur origin (you have to discover it by yourself or with the help of your familly or a psychiatrist even you are (I'm sure) not fool

- to say "don't fear the death" don't give a solution to this problem but reinforce it. So I have to stop the discussion with my son but keep the problem in mind

- the best way to find his own meaning of life is to build his own life (job, hobbies, relationships) and to find somebody to love. It is long, it is hard, it is life...

Sorry I would like to say more and to find better words...

My problem with english is very clear now

Joren, if you need to speak more about it in PM don't hesitate

You're going to be a man, Joren and you left childhood.

It is the same destiny for all of us

Welcome to the "Long and Winding Road"

diddy wrote: I don't really fear the death and have no big problem with it. The problem or fear I have is the time when I'm old. The time when you are reliant on somebody because you can't do things alone, you can't eat when you want, you can't do what you want because you are not able to to this things...that's something I don't want. I hate this situation when I'm very ill and don't want to have such a situation for a long time, maybe over years.

yes it is my point of view too but I also fear the death of the people I love, mainly my children...

I understand... both things are very logical. Diddy: I am also afraid that I will be reliant on somebody else when I'm old...  When you get a terrible desease or something like that...

Thanks for your kind words Tauhd!

Some words I'll always remember from Leo Kottke:

"I go around saying 'Huh?' and 'Wow!' and 'I think I'll go hang myself in the closet with a necktie,'" he says. "That doesn't happen very often, but that surprise comes along too. It can be a bad day when it's all a mess and you'd rather be dead. I have met people who claim to never have that thought or get that down and they worry me. If you never feel that way, you're going to sooner or later and if you've had no experience with it, you might be one of those who believe that's something you should actually do, instead of something you just might want to do."

I don't fully accept that there's any real duty, or purpose, given to you when you get here. You're lucky if you find even one thing that gives you the energy and desire to get you out of bed in the morning. Love is a very good reason, whether it's for a partner, for a god, or even for a pet (trust me, my bulldogs keep me going!). Work is good and bad- if you're very lucky, you can find something that satisfies and inspires you, but if you're like the rest of us you can at least find a job that keeps you from thinking too much a lot of the time. Education, travel, and the arts can be involving and interesting enough to keep you moving for a long time- there's always so much to be learned and appreciated.

Nope, it's the search for reasons, even if you never find the right one, that will occupy most of your time and energy. Everything you do and everyone you meet is a seed that could grow unexpected flowers when you least expect it. Keep moving, even if it's in no particular direction, and before too long you'll find yourself somewhere interesting. Even if you never find your own purpose or meaning, you're no worse off than most people- who though directionless still manage to have some worthwhile experiences while they're here.

Oh yeah, and don't spend too much time in forums 

James Lee wrote: Oh yeah, and don't spend too much time in forums

Yes

And don't hear too much CD, there is a life too out music

Best thing to do when life gets you down is write some lyrics - even if you think you're not the poetic type.

I've never been good at writing "happy" lyrics, because I write dark music, and happy lyrics just don't seem to work... I usually thank myself later for having been so depressed when it passes (as it always does).

er, I know that seems a bit self-congratulatory - but I was just trying to make a clumsy point.

I would post some examples - but they're a bit depressing...

Don't be shy

If I write something, it always have something to do with Death or Vegetables (or both)

Actually, that's a great process for helping you look inside and deal with the  life sometimes tosses in the way.

Write your own biography, include your own poetry and lyrics.... whatever. After a few months, go back and read and I'm sure you'll find some insight into how you handle problems and process your thoughts. You may find that perspective is a major stress reliever.  At least that's what my shrink said!!!

Death or Vegetables?

I like to use the approach; Open a novel from the bookshelf at random, then base a lyric around the words on the 1st page. I like to think it gives a kind of literary credibility to my somewhat hackneyed style - and I KNOW others take this approach, MORRISSEY

OK - here goes (100 points if you can tell me the novel from which I have  mutilated the opening lines);

Death and the Vegetables, part I

Spring moves in the air above
And in the ground below
And penetrating all around
Those evil vegetables grow

And "Up we go" and "Up we go"
The chorus fills the air
And so the dark crescendo builds
In allotments everywhere

Green shoots pop! in the moonlight
Leafy tendrils scratch and scrape
Those coiling serpents long foretold
Reclaim their lost landscape

...

I got interrupted, and it's too late for me to continue - any more ideas on this one?

(who knows, I may even set it to music and circulate it!)

Maybe this words I'm quoting from the contemporary Mexican poet, Jaime Sabines, will get you back on the track of the real conciousness. They read as followed: (some of the sense is lost in between due the translation to English, but the point is still the same)

"When you feel like dying / Cuando tengas ganas de morirte

hide your head underneath the pillow / esconde la cabeza bajo la almohada

and count four thousand sheep. / y cuenta cuatro mil borregos

Fast for two days / Quédate dos días sin comer

and you'll see how beautiful life is: / y verás que hermosa es la vida:

beef, beans, bread. / carne, frijoles, pan

Stay without a woman, / Quédate sin mujer,

you'll see. / Verás

When you feel like dying, / Cuando tengas ganas de morirte

don't make such a fuss, / no alborotes tanto,

and just die already". / muérete y ya.

I know it may sound of quite disturbing, but I find in this poem the real meaning of life. Hope you can snap out of this thought that keeps you upset.

Peace,

Land

That's really cool, Land!

Tauhd Zaïa wrote: You're going to be a man, Joren and you left childhood.

No way man! He's sitting right here next to me, and I'm telling you, HE AINT NEVER GOING TO BE A MAN!!!!!!

Oh yeah, he's laughing his arse off right now...

Hey Jrk,

Keep yer hands to yerself......

It's not what it seems!  it was 03:27 in the morning and we were a little corny (if that's the right word)

Joren wrote: It's not what it seems!  it was 03:27 in the morning and we were a little corny (if that's the right word)

Why do you need to justify yourself

But I'm happy that you have found love, Joren ! 

Hey wait a second, I've got a girlfriend alrready!

Joren was merely wearing my boxers.

Joren wrote: It was not a joke. I discovered about 4 years ago that I am going to die (once). When you are a little kid, you think the life you're leading is never going to end. When I discovered this is not true, that was a slap in the face. Life keeps on dissappointing me. Getting older is terrible, I am eighteen now, but I already think like an elderly when it's my birthday: "Now I'm going to die a year sooner". I passed my finals and now It's the holidays. Hooray. It's terrible. I have to have driving lessons and I don't want it. I want to do something nice or creative but I can't find courage or inspiration. Very often, I feel like an embittered, old man.

Maybe this sounds a little morbid. But I really think that knowing you're gonna die may just be the only comfort to this life. I'm not scared of it, and in many ways I look forward to it. Not because I hate life as such, I just feel so old and too sad, and I'm only 18. Also because I'm cusious to see what is gonna happen. 

I can't remember when I first knew I was gonna die. But I don't recall it as something bad. It's kinda comforting knowing that days of constant struggle and dissapointment, with short moments of happiness will end sometime. It's not something I used to think about, really.

I understand what you mean though. But you will find inspiration again. Things change so much, and you just feel like you're not moving along or that you're missing the great things that everyone else seem to experience. (atleast I do)... But as Bill Hicks says 'It's just a ride'... 

I hope you're ok bunbun

Belljar wrote: Joren wrote: It was not a joke. I discovered about 4 years ago that I am going to die (once). When you are a little kid, you think the life you're leading is never going to end. When I discovered this is not true, that was a slap in the face. Life keeps on dissappointing me. Getting older is terrible, I am eighteen now, but I already think like an elderly when it's my birthday: "Now I'm going to die a year sooner". I passed my finals and now It's the holidays. Hooray. It's terrible. I have to have driving lessons and I don't want it. I want to do something nice or creative but I can't find courage or inspiration. Very often, I feel like an embittered, old man. Maybe this sounds a little morbid. But I really think that knowing you're gonna die may just be the only comfort to this life. I'm not scared of it, and in many ways I look forward to it. Not because I hate life as such, I just feel so old and too sad, and I'm only 18. Also because I'm cusious to see what is gonna happen.  I can't remember when I first knew I was gonna die. But I don't recall it as something bad. It's kinda comforting knowing that days of constant struggle and dissapointment, with short moments of happiness will end sometime. It's not something I used to think about, really. I understand what you mean though. But you will find inspiration again. Things change so much, and you just feel like you're not moving along or that you're missing the great things that everyone else seem to experience. (atleast I do)... But as Bill Hicks says 'It's just a ride'...  I hope you're ok bunbun

Yes, maybe it's a good thing... I wouldn't want to live FOREVER

but we have no choise, have we?

(BTW: I'm glad that you're not afraid to die, but don't look forward to it too much, because killing yourself is an awful waste . I mean, you will die eventually, so hang on, you will only hurt other people with commiting suicide)

And, you'd miss out on good stuff like MORE BBQ's and good meat and ofcourse the different kinds of beer there for the tasting AND the day you find out something funny about your dad and your father-in-law.

Did I mention you'd miss out on good beef?

Oh I'm not talking about killing myself. Did it seem like that? I could never do that, even if I did lose all hope. I could never hurt people like that. I could only imagine how awful it would be if someone I loved did that.

I believe in fighting anyway. And I'm my own example that I can succeed, because I've been beyond self-destruction. And I'm fine now

I wont cry the day I'm sure I'll meet Jim Morrison and Janis Joplin though

Belljar wrote: Oh I'm not talking about killing myself. Did it seem like that? I could never do that, even if I did lose all hope. I could never hurt people like that. I could only imagine how awful it would be if someone I loved did that. I believe in fighting anyway. And I'm my own example that I can succeed, because I've been beyond self-destruction. And I'm fine now I wont cry the day I'm sure I'll meet Jim Morrison and Janis Joplin though

It's a pity I don't believe in that... I would sell my genitals if I could shake the hand of Mr. Zappa!

JrKASperov wrote: And, you'd miss out on good stuff like MORE BBQ's and good meat and ofcourse the different kinds of beer there for the tasting AND the day you find out something funny about your dad and your father-in-law.   Did I mention you'd miss out on good beef?

What's that funny thing about your dad and your father-in-law?

They both got old and went to listen to boring music.

Joren wrote: Belljar wrote: Oh I'm not talking about killing myself. Did it seem like that? I could never do that, even if I did lose all hope. I could never hurt people like that. I could only imagine how awful it would be if someone I loved did that. I believe in fighting anyway. And I'm my own example that I can succeed, because I've been beyond self-destruction. And I'm fine now I wont cry the day I'm sure I'll meet Jim Morrison and Janis Joplin though It's a pity I don't believe in that... I would sell my genitals if I could shake the hand of Mr. Zappa!

 That comment really amused me!

Belljar wrote: Joren wrote: Belljar wrote: Oh I'm not talking about killing myself. Did it seem like that? I could never do that, even if I did lose all hope. I could never hurt people like that. I could only imagine how awful it would be if someone I loved did that. I believe in fighting anyway. And I'm my own example that I can succeed, because I've been beyond self-destruction. And I'm fine now I wont cry the day I'm sure I'll meet Jim Morrison and Janis Joplin though It's a pity I don't believe in that... I would sell my genitals if I could shake the hand of Mr. Zappa!  That comment really amused me!

Painful self-mockery indeed!  

Joren wrote: Painful self-mockery indeed!

I shall make you a good price

Tauhd Zaïa wrote: Joren wrote: Painful self-mockery indeed!   I shall make you a good price

Just give me € 12,95 and it's yours! (I've got two anyway )

The thing about depression is,
well you just can't let it get you down,
you have to see the world for what it is

a circus full of freaks and clowns

Joren, If you think it's bad now, wacht maar af.

Seriously though makker, things are so hard to get into perspective at 18. The day I turned 30 (I'm 37 now) wonderfull, subtle things started to happen. For example, hot young babes suddenly noticed me like they'd never done when I was of their own agegroup. I felt suddenly "lekker in m'n vel", after a good many years wondering what the hell it was all about.

If you're looking for the answer.....,the ultimate answer......, to life, the universe and everything...,it's fortytwo.

emdiar wrote: Joren, If you think it's bad now, wacht maar af. Seriously though makker, things are so hard to get into perspective at 18. The day I turned 30 (I'm 37 now) wonderfull, subtle things started to happen. For example, hot young babes suddenly noticed me like they'd never done when I was of their own agegroup. I felt suddenly "lekker in m'n vel", after a good many years wondering what the hell it was all about. If you're looking for the answer.....,the ultimate answer......, to life, the universe and everything...,it's fortytwo.

Thanks for your advice, makker

I guess I'll just wacht af dan

I would love to be "lekker in m'n vel".

Velvetclown wrote: You think too much my friend, I know cos I´ve been there  It´s not good for you.

It is better to think too much than to think too little (like most people on this planet).

... I even wonder if they think AT ALL

dumb all over

a little ugly on the side

Don't never let her know you are smart
The universe is no place to start
You gotta play it straight from the heart
She gwine renunciate you
(That's why you gotta . . . )

Find her finer, sneak up behind her
Wrapped like a mummy till you finally unwind her
Find her blinder, see who designed her
Act like a dummy till you finally grind her

Now maybe you might think this is crude
And maybe you might think I am rude
And maybe this approach I have spewed
Is not the one for you
(Rat-tat-tat-tat ta-da!)

But believe me later on you'll find
As you impress her with your mind
That you would just be left behind
For a wiser fool
(So you might as well)

Find her finer, sneak up behind her
Wrapped like a mummy till you finally unwind her
Find her blinder, see who designed her
Act like a dummy till you finally grind her

I'm NOT trying to get laid. I'm NOT trying to inherit the earth. I'm trying to...

DANCE!  

whatever

Whatever you do, don't think too much. It'll drive you insane as it did with me. It's frustration if you can't do anything about it. Like I can't.

Get laid, inherit the earth ooor dance instead, like you said. I'll try that if it can make me stop THINKING. (I do have a prefrence )

It's hard being happy, when you think too much. If Bill Hicks hadn't died, I'm sure he would have killed himself in the end.

The art of being wise, is the art of knowing what to overlook.

William James