I think the first thing to do is break with the policy as formulated in this resolution.

Primitive and weapons heavy.... a bad combination. 

Iraq was only a rogue state as far as obeying US orders. From what i understand, Saddam was installed as a US backed puppet and only once he got it in his head to take matters in his own hands was he officially deemed a rogue leader. In the case of Saudi Arabia, the US has been cozying up for decades with the oil rich royalty with our current prez making the latest appearance. There is nothing Saudi Arabia is carrying out at the moment without the blessings of the cabal that has taken over the US intelligence agencies and many parts of the government. Ther is literally a civil war happening beneath the scenes at the moment. 

I think the US is the biggest rogue state in the world these days. Undeclared wars for decades, IMF loans forced upon developing nations, CIA sponsored overthrowing of democratic leaders of other nations, etc. If anyone cares to dig deep into the untold history, the US has been THE quintessential rogue nation since WWII. Saudi Arabia is allowed to appear as if it's rogue in order to focus the attention away from the true miscreants but it's not hard to learn through declassified documents and Freedom of Information Act requests exactly what has been going on. Check out Oliver Stone's Untold History of the United States and it really only scratches the surface.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Untold_History_of_the_United_States" rel="nofollow - The Untold History of the United States - Wikipedia

"But he's a killer," O'Reilly said to Trump.

 

Agreed on the above but not the bold part: Regardless how he may see himself, Oliver Stone is a movie producer and not a historian. He tells stories that need to be slightly altered for added dramatic effect and THAT disqualifies him from being a holder of the truth (Pravda in Russian). He has made quite a few twists to the history of the USA that are fantastic and biased. But mostly, his ‘opinions’ on the USSR are patently misguided and daubed with numerous coats of rosy paint, his semi-acknowledgement of Stalin as a great leader and war strategist is LAUGHABLE: his numerous blunders (Finno-Russian war, the purge of the Red Army as well as a series of tactical errors) are there for anyone to see and read. A true historian researches BOTH sides, in order to determine the dynamics of all protagonists, in order to better understand the decisions, circumstances and consequences of their actions. Unbiased hopefully, which is not an Oliver Stone trait.  He is also quite the Russophile, beaming in Vlady's presence! Scratching the surface IS the problem......

No one can blame Putin for what happened before he was even born. Of course Stalin takes the cake as most murderous thug. Russian military power in comparison to the US is what i meant. When it comes to Putin we need to focus on Russia since the break up of the Soviet Union. Most Westerners have NO idea the hardships endured by the average citizens of all the former Soviet block countries after the dissolution. Also never reported is exactly how many times Russia has tried to create peace with the US but the fact is that the corporate elite who control our government at the moment NEEEEED an enemy and they are doing everything in their power to make Russia seem more dangerous than it is. I would never excuse any wrongs committed by any nation, i'm merely saying that the Russia hype is extremely exaggerated regarding 'national security' of Western countries. 

Oliver Stone's movies have given him a bad rep and no doubt he didn't get everything right in his movies that he had total control over. The difference is that The Untold History Of The United States is ENTIRELY based on declassified documents from the US government itself. The series was a collaboration with historian Peter Kznick and the series was fact checked multiple times by Showtime before it was aired. It is an airtight case for being 100% factual. I'm somewhat of a Russophile myself, that meaning i'm fascinated by its history and place in the world, not a defender of everything it does

Err..All I can say, it is not pretty (Poland air tragedy, Malaysia air shoot down, intimidation of all the former satellites). 

Are you disagreeing with something? Not really clear. Everything you say rings true to me. I'm simply pointing out that the US and other Western powers have been just as destructive to other nations and exceeded anything Russia has ever done. The US is the only country to have dropped atomic bombs on another country. The US has hundreds of military bases across the world. The US controls NATO to a great extent. Etc. I've dug deep into the wells of knowledge about my own country and compared to Russia, has committed countless more war crimes against humanity. The CIA has also been masters of media manipulation since WW2, so yes what you say about Russia is so true but also true of the US, the UK, France and anyone else who can get away with it 

Actually anything can be faked. I agree. That's why i find whistleblower testimonies to be some of the most reliable guages of figuring something out. 

There is alway a silent THIRD option.....

Very well said  

I'm only rooting for Russia in the sense that i think it's necessary for their to be more than one super power. The US has gotten away with far too many crimes against humanity for far too long. I don't know where it's all heading but it is a good thing for empires to have to think twice before prodceeding with their ridiculous behaviors. I've been all over the Eastern Europe and i love the people but like everywhere else find the governments to be the problem 

I've very much thought about this. If the US controlled Siberia, every single square kilometer would be deforested with the indingenous peoples elimated and i could only go on and on and on. Despite Russia's legitmate evils committed, it has also been a viable counterforce to some of the evils of Western hegemonic ambitions as well. I shudder at the thought of ANY nation ruling the world. 

I would argue that our democratic transparency is nothing more than an illusion. I'm not sure where you live but here in the USA our "democracy" didn't ensure the election of Gore in the year 2000. It was hijacked by the Supreme Court. It didn't prevent the illegal occupation of Iraq (not to mention Vietnma, Korea etc) and the untold millions of deaths. It didn't prevent the CIA backed coup d'etats of Honduras, Libya, etc. The truth is that the whole "democracy" is nothing more than a charade. A clever crafted puppet show to keep the masses entertained. I could go on for hours as i've been digging for years into deep state secrecy. There is a thing called the black budget here. That is a blackhole of secrecy that is paid for by the taxpayers but isn't even accountable to Congress as it's completely classified no one knows for sure what it does. I have heard hundreds of hours of whistleblower testimony about these things. As far as Russia, i think of its role similar to Golem's in Lord of the Rings. It is coming to the table with totally twisted intentions but will unknowingly be a major player in making sure the ring of power ends up in the fiery pits of Mordor. Like i said, i could go on for days about this stuff but i'm over it. I'd rather write another music review instead :P

Thanks :) Puppy hugs from a black sheep (or labrador retriver!) of the American family 

If there's so little transparency in American Government, then how did you arrive at the facts you stated above? Your gripe is with transparency after the fact. However, you still know the facts. Do you really think that's possible with our counterparts in Russia? As I said, Russia is the worst of two evils, not the better.

Primitive but rich b*****ds........

This isn't even really something to debate, we know it. Besides the financing...they actively export Wahhabism which is a source of extremism itself. 

BUT intl relations sucks...they dont just supply us with oil and buy our arms, but they have been a source of stability in the region, and as more states fall out of our favor we've been forced closer and closer. As it's been pointed out here, they really aren't a stable force but I'm not sure how long we have known this. By this point we're kinda stuck. There is no easy way out. 

I always hoped that as we wean off oil it would provide a natural chance to drift from the Saudi's but things never go so easy

Edit: Oh the situation has become even worse thanks to ISIS now. Because the fight against ISIS while a global effort, is basically a complex proxy war just underneath. We are allied with SA and it's even harder to break because we have to "fight" these other actors as well. It's a mess of the grandest proportions. 

 

We did not need a Edward Snowden to know these facts. Or the fact that Repubs are involved in Gerrymandering, actively involved in blocking Black voting, etc, which is public knowledge without any insider leaking needed.

 

Or the extreme case where James Comey views both parties as corrupt and investigates  both and publicly states so. I've seen more info brought into the light simply because it's leaked or is right in front of my face. So much for deep state paranoia. There's enough info floating about that can dishearten one without thinking of possible but unsubstantiated deep state conspiracies.

In this particular discussion i'm focusing on the negatives because that's what needs to be changed. If you're sick with stomach pains, do you focus on how good your toes feel? Of course i'm aware of what IS good about the world, but all that is at risk with the reckless behaviour of the power hungry dementors of doom at the helm. As far as learning about clandestine covert operations, it is absolutely essential that whistleblowers who are invovled behind the scenes expose wrongdoings in the government / corporate / military sector. And lastly, you should separate individuals like us from the general public. We apparently dig deep to understand these things on a deeper level, but crap don't change until the greater public understands what's going on, therefore Edward Snowden was absolutely essential for his role in all the leaks.

Really good indeed, thanks ;)

 

But like some of us stated above, I think that most people would have to dig deep to understand these things on a deeper level... Some countries from Central and Eastern Europe , as well as the whole Latin America are today the best examples of how far their regimes are from achieving some positive changes......