Can Nationalism stop Globalization?
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Topic: Can Nationalism stop Globalization?
Posted By: SteveG
Subject: Can Nationalism stop Globalization?
Date Posted: April 24 2017 at 12:52
Can the recent rise of Nationalism, on both sides of the Atlantic, actually put a stop to Globalization?
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Replies:
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: April 24 2017 at 12:56
No.
/thread
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Posted By: mechanicalflattery
Date Posted: April 24 2017 at 13:51
Nothing can/will stop globalization unless all of society breaks down. Whether this is a good thing is a separate question entirely, but it should be fun watching cultures and nations become steadily more homogeneous and interrelated.
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Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: April 24 2017 at 14:14
no
------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: April 24 2017 at 15:40
If you don't believe it can, they have already won.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 24 2017 at 16:45
^ bullsh*t..
those that feel threatened by it can fight and they are.. and you can win little battles (Trump and Brexit).. but still never have a chance to win the larger war against globalism, multiculturalism and all that jazz.
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 25 2017 at 03:14
No.
Globalisation is not a choice. It is an incurable disease and it's bigger than any president or prime minister. What we are seeing right now is a 'blip' Old people are rebelling and trying to pull things back to the days of nation states and protectionism, but young people are more politically aware than ever and are very pro-globalisation. They are the foundation of our globalised future, and there will ultimately be no going back until there is centralised global government, one currency and no borders.
------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: April 25 2017 at 04:01
So, all of these efforts are just putting off the inevitable. Seems like a waste of time and effort then.
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 25 2017 at 04:18
It IS all a waste of time and effort. People still think the solution to all our problems lies within a system of politics where the players relentlessly serve their own interests and those of their corporate backers. People thought Trump was different despite being a multi billionaire globalist businessman. But people won't be told. Now he's basically threatening WWIII probably just to give the arms industry a boos, and those who sung his praises as he campaigned are acting all surprised and upset. I despair. People are either thick or just plain nasty. As a collective species we'll get what we ultimately deserve. Whatever that is.
------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: April 25 2017 at 04:21
Not sure. I fear it can't.
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: April 25 2017 at 08:29
Nope. Nation states are doomed to meet the dinosaurs and since most separations of human interest are based on national identitiy, i say adios amigos. It's been a nice ride
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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: April 25 2017 at 10:43
One currency, one government and one rule of law! Nice ideal but open to the worst control mechanisms ever. Did we not already have Ein Fuhrer, Ein Volk, Ein Reich ? That failed thankfully. Then we had the "Socialist paradise" aka USSR and that went nowhere. One Global Order, to guide mankind's fate and like the EU , if you do not obey, you are ostracized and pilloried. Go to your nearest zoo, open all the cages within the zoo compound and what will happen? Prosperity? Harmony? Love? Peace? I hope so but I doubt it, unfortunately.
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Posted By: twseel
Date Posted: April 25 2017 at 13:59
Perhaps people aren't interested in total globalism? Stereotypes in general haven't weakened much, mostly they have gotten thicker and more colourful, it seems the tribal mindset is inevitable and now backlashing against the explosion of the internet etc. Not that I feel that way but plenty of young folks have adopted the 'cherish our culture' mentality just as well, and so this is surely gonna affect, and is already affecting international politics in more than just a select few well-known cases. There is a shift going on where the Western world is showing its weaknesses and the rest of the world is losing their last grains of respect for our way of life as they slowly catch up with us with concurring ideologies; from our perspective it makes more sense to be a nationalist now than when we were in phases of unstoppable growth and influence, as the values we have adopted to reach this growth are showing their specific flaws and the only thing the proud, baffled regular Joe from the West will conclude from this is that his values just haven't been enforced hard enough, it's the only way for him as he has seen its success, and he can not imagine them being suppressed out of the market by vastly different faraway societies. I dunno, just brainstorming here...
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 25 2017 at 15:17
In answer to the OP, I doubt it.
By the way, cultural globalization has concerned me.
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: April 25 2017 at 15:35
^Why? I can imagine some valid reasons what why in your case?
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 25 2017 at 17:04
While there are positive aspects of cultural globalization (or globalisation depending upon how one likes to spell) regarding the exchange of ideas around the world, the acceptance of people from around the world, and cultures can evolve in positive ways when exposed to other cultures, I have been concerned about cultural erosion and used to be particularly concerned about consumerist culture's effect. When I lived in Japan I refused to eat at McDonald's, for instance. As a traveler I appreciate differences between places and peoples (of course one finds subcultures in cultures too). Not that I expect the world to become culturally homogeneous (one doesn't even find cultural homogeneity within groups of people with the same ethnic and national identity from the same region). That globalization can bridge differences can certainly be a good thing and as I said, the global exchange of ideas is important, but I like various ideas of a fairly distinct cultural identity.
I think when I studied Sociology my biggest fear was that cultural globalization would really equal much the same as Americanization, especially in that it would be the adoption of American consumerist culture, including fast food culture, Hollywoodization etc. across the world, but that was decades ago.
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: April 25 2017 at 20:45
^Oh, with this I can agree. The risk of "Americanization" (or ultra consumerism) at the expense of local culture and values is a risk and downside of globalization. I think cultures are resilient and people's characteristics and personalities are stronger but at least a partial erosion is unavoidable.
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Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: April 25 2017 at 22:13
tszirmay wrote:
One currency, one government and one rule of law! Nice ideal but open to the worst control mechanisms ever. Did we not already have Ein Fuhrer, Ein Volk, Ein Reich ? That failed thankfully. Then we had the "Socialist paradise" aka USSR and that went nowhere. One Global Order, to guide mankind's fate and like the EU , if you do not obey, you are ostracized and pilloried. Go to your nearest zoo, open all the cages within the zoo compound and what will happen? Prosperity? Harmony? Love? Peace? I hope so but I doubt it, unfortunately. |
Not necessarily. It could very well end up with no government, no rule and no law! It is a matter of WHEN not if we have a major solar flare that wipes out our entire electrical grids due to the weakening of Earth's magnetic shields. My experience is that when people are the best when things are at the worst. Hopefully that will be the case when the inevitable occurs :)
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 26 2017 at 02:56
tszirmay wrote:
One currency, one government and one rule of law! Nice ideal but open to the worst control mechanisms ever. Did we not already have Ein Fuhrer, Ein Volk, Ein Reich ? That failed thankfully. Then we had the "Socialist paradise" aka USSR and that went nowhere. One Global Order, to guide mankind's fate and like the EU , if you do not obey, you are ostracized and pilloried. Go to your nearest zoo, open all the cages within the zoo compound and what will happen? Prosperity? Harmony? Love? Peace? I hope so but I doubt it, unfortunately. |
Democracy is dying on its arse, and reveals repeatedly the stupidity and selfishness of the electorate. The future lies in global dictatorship, with regional senators and councils. Any nation that doesn't comply will be taken down. That process started in the early years of this century. We're now moving on to the big players; Russia, China and their proxy's etc..
Basically it's easier to destabilise and fail a nation than it is to install a stable and fully functioning pro western government, and sell Big Macs and MTV to their people. Many folk point out that Libya and Iraq are worse off now without their respective previous dictators in power, but I suspect it was never the intention to bring about peace in those countries, but merely to depose opponents of the globalist vision and then use the ensuing chaos and terrorist threat as an excuse to maintain a presence in the region to secure access to oil, the sale of weapons and the erosion of liberty back home in the name of security; preparing the people to accept as normal restrictions on travel and communications.
------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: April 26 2017 at 05:51
So long as there is a need for extremists to impose their "values" there won't be a utopian type globalisation.
Nationalism is the refuge of the frightened bigot. This may not stop globalisation but cause more fragmentation. Our world leaders are range from the quite good (Trudeau) to the abysmal (45). Some are the usual average standard (May) others might be less predictable (as we watch what happens in France).
Next step the dissolution of the EU? Economically still a good idea but fragmented by prejudice and fear. These issues are fanned by self interested politicians rather than addressed in a responsible way. Ironically speeding up the pace for a global ... structure?
Religious extremism and it's extremist opposition is the real unpredictable element.
I hope it doesn't bugger up the Champions League too much. That would be a bad thing...
Like nuclear war... or living with that threat all over again. Well done those guys. Thanks a bunch.
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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: April 26 2017 at 17:22
It's completely bizarre to see something totally nonexistent mere decades ago described as an impossible to reverse given facet of life... how long do you think people have been around?
edit:a typo
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 26 2017 at 17:44
Globalization in various forms has been going on for a very long time, pretty much since man first left the Savannah, though at times it was better called colonization and colonialism.
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Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: April 26 2017 at 18:20
I hope Nationalism can slow down Globalism. The Globalism endgame isn't pretty unless you like neo-feudalism.
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Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: April 26 2017 at 22:00
Whether it is a good thing or not, the economy is no longer a national thing. Supply chains stretch across the planet, nationalism cannot stop that.
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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: April 27 2017 at 00:01
Logan wrote:
Globalization in various forms has been going on for a very long time, pretty much since man first left the Savannah, though at times it was better called colonization and colonialism. |
Up until extremely recently it was impossible to uproot your family and entire existence unless you were incredibly rich. Let's not mistake the experiences of a tiny handful of explorers and militaries for the human condition. Forget the opposite side of the world, Romanians wouldn't be able to make it to Ukraine. Different nationalities have been distinct for almost 40000 years.
A Person wrote:
Whether it is a good thing or not, the economy is no
longer a national thing. Supply chains stretch across the planet,
nationalism cannot stop that.
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IMO every country should at least strive for self-sufficiency, what are you going to do if e.g. you go to war with china and every single piece of technology or communication equipment in your country was built there? I'm in signals in the army reserves and frankly something like that is alarming
Another example, what's the point in Alberta extracting crude, piping it to the USA to refine, then buying it back when you could build another couple refineries here?
Or why do you have to go to a farmers' market to buy garlic that isn't grown in http://lmgtfy.com/?q=china+soil+toxicity" rel="nofollow - contaminated chinese soil ?
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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: April 27 2017 at 00:04
Basically what I'm saying is just because you can pay peasants you will never meet a pittance to make sh*t in a factory with suicide nets, doesn't mean it's good for a single person
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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: April 27 2017 at 00:08
People talk about "The West" as though mass electronic communication and the ability to travel around the globe in a day without a serious risk of dying have always been part of the fabric of human society.
I don't think they're being disingenuous. You take fast travel and instantaneous communication for granted if you don't think about them. But it wasn't too long ago that merely moving from Virginia to Kansas meant you were likely to never, ever be seen or heard from ever again. So it's just absolutely insane to suggest that universal globalism and everyone living everywhere is core to Western civilization; the idea wasn't even thinkable before the mid-20th century. You can drive for eight hours in Europe and cross five language zones because that's how little mobility people used to have.
The idea that our territory didn't really belong to us because capitalism and our values give everyone the right to pick up all their sh*t and move to wherever General Electric is offering a job is such an obviously modern phenomenon that it's insulting my intelligence to say it's in any way core to Western civilization.
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Posted By: twseel
Date Posted: April 27 2017 at 01:03
I hope Dean or someone will examine those posts further, but for now let me just add as a brief summary, if we, the West are not competing well enough with China, it's not because we're not being ourselves enough, it's because we're not COMPETING well enough. If we don't keep firing up our economy like the Chinese are doing now instead of sitting back and taking peace with our achievements and just blabbing about how our saggy lifes are just a bit less comfortable with this 6% minority of foreigners, we will lose/go to sh*t with isolationism just as well as with globalism. You don't achieve wealth by just being a good sport, y'know.
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Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: April 27 2017 at 03:46
Triceratopsoil wrote:
A Person wrote:
Whether it is a good thing or not, the economy is no longer a national thing. Supply chains stretch across the planet, nationalism cannot stop that. |
IMO every country should at least strive for self-sufficiency, what are you going to do if e.g. you go to war with china and every single piece of technology or communication equipment in your country was built there? I'm in signals in the army reserves and frankly something like that is alarming
Another example, what's the point in Alberta extracting crude, piping it to the USA to refine, then buying it back when you could build another couple refineries here?
Or why do you have to go to a farmers' market to buy garlic that isn't grown in contaminated chinese soil? |
Most people don't care about being self-sufficient, and every country is being run by people who don't. The best thing you can do is be self-sufficient yourself, hunt and gather your own food, don't use money, have as little to do with the society as possible and hope they don't find you when the war comes.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: April 27 2017 at 04:04
I'm honestly at a loss on this topic. America was the leader in globalization with NAFTA, CAFTA, etc., while covertly focusing on fracking (while ignoring every possible pollution responsibly), in order to be self sufficient in regard to oil and natural gas. So it seems it's that when it's convenient not embrace globalism, that's the way to go. Go figure.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: April 27 2017 at 09:17
Triceratopsoil wrote:
It's completely bizarre to see something totally nonexistent mere decades ago described as an impossible to reverse given facet of life... how long do you think people have been around?
edit:a typo
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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: April 27 2017 at 23:15
twseel wrote:
if we, the West are not competing well enough with China, 888 |
Labour and environmental laws, no those have nothing to do with it, if only we worked harder this wouldn't happen
who are you, jeb bush?
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Posted By: twseel
Date Posted: April 28 2017 at 01:08
Triceratopsoil wrote:
twseel wrote:
if we, the West are not competing well enough with China, 888 |
Labour and environmental laws, no those have nothing to do with it, if only we worked harder this wouldn't happen
who are you, jeb bush?
| Did you read my whole post? Of course we don't HAVE TO, and it WOULD be a decline in moral, but the international market doesn't care. If they're cheaper and more efficient, we will lose market shares and we don't control their government or their people so there isn't much we can do about that except for changing our social/moral standards or accepting our loss in the international market.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 28 2017 at 07:11
A Person wrote:
Whether it is a good thing or not, the economy is no longer a national thing. Supply chains stretch across the planet, nationalism cannot stop that.
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exactly
Businesses win.. the consumer wins... besides cutting through the
crap...the root of Nationalism is not economic.. the economic negatives
which are far outweighed by the positives and are often a smokescreen
for politicians (and those that support them or pandered to by the
politicians) for the real problem those who dislike Globalization have
with it. Cultural and racial integration..
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: April 28 2017 at 07:52
Can National Socialism stop globalization?
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 28 2017 at 08:00
Trump gives em' hope doesn't he...and again... it isn't economics that drives them or what the undercurrent was that elected Trump.. smokescreens man.
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: April 28 2017 at 09:00
What an ugly flag design...
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: April 28 2017 at 09:43
^And scary!
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: April 28 2017 at 10:09
^I recently saw a documentary on those guys, specifically the NSM. They are more pitiful than scary.
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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: April 29 2017 at 23:44
There's no such thing as neo-nazis that aren't pathetic, because they have no sense of roots or community. Their efforts are 100% worthless and misguided
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