HIFI CABLES
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: Tech Talk
Forum Description: Discuss musical instruments, equipment, hi-fi, speakers, vinyl, gadgets,etc.
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11073
Printed Date: November 24 2024 at 10:25
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: HIFI CABLES
Posted By: oliverstoned
Subject: HIFI CABLES
Date Posted: September 03 2005 at 06:33
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Good cables are very important in a good system.
There are two family of cables: Interconnect and power. 1)Interconnect Among Interconnect, there are modulation cables, used to link sources to the preamplifier or integrated amp. Then there are speakers cables to link speakers to amplifiers. 2)Power cables The aim of good power cables is to preserve the power cable from various perturbations. 3)Brands and models. If you're looking for budget cables, one brand: QED. Their entry-level products are excellent. Neutral, equilibrated and musical. If you have a bigger budget, turn on american brands: Synergetic research, Cardas, Transparent (the best for interconnect), Kimber, Nordost... QED 
CARDAS 
NORDOST 
Digital one: 
TRANSPARENT CABLES 
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Replies:
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 03 2005 at 06:37
SHUNYATA (Top power cable, designed for digital)
NORDOST POWER CABLE 
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 03 2005 at 06:40
WBT connectics
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Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: September 03 2005 at 07:16
| I don't doubt that cable quality is important, but I also believe its importance is overhyped. At least one retailer recommends that you allow 10% of your hi-fi budget for cables. To me this is a cynical marketing ploy, you either need good cables or you don't. I also question the difference in terms of perceptible performance between a cable costing say £20 and one costing £200. |
Posted By: proger
Date Posted: September 03 2005 at 07:19
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tahnks about in info and the pictures! good man ------------- ...live for tomorrow... |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 04 2005 at 07:05
As log as you've not heard a "big" cable, it's normal to have some doubts. There are expensive cables which doesn't work, and cheap who does. That's why i made the selection you see up. There are all good and bring a dramatic improvment on a good system. 10% of the budget is not enough in my opinion. I have myself 700 doollars modulation cables and this is not because they look nice, but because they bring a huge improvment which is a simportant as the elements itself. |
Easy Livin wrote:Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 04 2005 at 07:05
Thank you for you support Feel free to ask more |
Posted By: proger
Date Posted: September 10 2005 at 13:31
yes i will  ------------- ...live for tomorrow... |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 11 2005 at 06:30
you're welcome
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 11 2005 at 10:33
Power filter (Transparent)
Interconnect cables (Transparent) 
Digital and modulation 
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Posted By: the dragon
Date Posted: September 12 2005 at 05:02
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I'm looking for a new system (ampli NAD 352 + CD NAD 542 + Tablette ProAC 2000) in short time. A friend of mine reccomend VdH D-102 III or, better, Thunderline as modulation cables (I need less than 1 meter). Both are easy to find here in Rome but price is quite hot. Are they a good choice? ------------- Still alive... |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 12 2005 at 06:07
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Your Nad choice for electronics is great. I don't know Proac tablette, i suppose there are good, but i will check, asking to a friend.
You need standfloors for your speakers, are they provided with the speakers? If not, turn on Atacama Nexus 7, there are cheap (120€ for the pair) and excellent and will fit perfectly with your little speakers. You have to screw it on your standfloors. It may seem barbarian to do, but it's essential in order the speakers doesn't vibrate. Then, you must fill it with sand. About cables, i don't know that precise model, but Van den hull is a good brand which does musical cables. If you find it too expensive, you can turn on the QED cheapest model. Does your speakers accept bi wiring? it's ESSENTIAL to bi wire. |
Posted By: Lindsay Lohan
Date Posted: September 12 2005 at 06:12
God Oliverstoned what does your HI-FI equipment really cost?  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Fjuffe/?chartstyle=sideRed - [IMG - http://imagegen.last.fm/sideRed/recenttracks/Fjuffe.gif - |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 12 2005 at 06:39
"Only" 10000 € for the moment  , but i have only CD and Tape, Vynil and tuner sources are missing me.
I expect to invest 4000€ or 5000 dollars for my turntable, as i want to put a moving coil and a pre-pre on it. I admit it's a dangerous drug! |
Posted By: the dragon
Date Posted: September 12 2005 at 07:02
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No, standfloors are not provided. I know the brand Atacama as very good and no expensive. Good news for the Tablette, they accept bi-wire. For QED cables, it seems to be not a popular brand here: maybe i'm wrong, i will make a better search. Thanks a lot for your friendly advices.
------------- Still alive... |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 12 2005 at 07:13
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It's a pleasure to help you!
I swear QED cables are unbeatable in low prices! but Van den hull is a good brand. You can choose a cheaper model in their choice. You MUST bi wire, so it's mean to buy either by wired designed cables with babana plugs mounted on it like the "Qed original biwire" pictured below, which is a good choice because their "Airloc" plug is good: 
Or if too expensive, turn on meter cable (Van den hull or qed) and buy enough to bi cable. You'll simply solder the extrtemities with WBT silver solder, if possible. 
I think it's very important to biwire in your case, as i think that the Tablette has a low efficiency. This will had dynamic, quickness and image. |
Posted By: the dragon
Date Posted: September 12 2005 at 07:25
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You are right, 87 db.
------------- Still alive... |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 12 2005 at 07:40
Not easy to fed... how much watts does the Nad amp do? |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 12 2005 at 07:52
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Are you sure about the speakers choice ?
I would see well of pair of cheap (but very musical) Mission with a bigger boomer (16.5 cm for the M32i model pictured below ) and a higher efficiency (90db). Bigger boomer equals more low, which means more matter, thickness, image… Your Nad would drive it like a flower. Mission M32i (you can get it around 300€ for the pair!!) 
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Posted By: the dragon
Date Posted: September 12 2005 at 07:53
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80. But if NAD is the great brand that we know, they are real. I can also consider the big brother 372, the effort is not inhuman, but the room is not so big (6x4) and his 150 watt could be... dangerous.
------------- Still alive... |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 12 2005 at 07:59
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Ok, i think the 80Watts will be sufficient to drive correctly (in bi wire mode)these little greedy speakers.
You can add a subwoofer to go further. |
Posted By: the dragon
Date Posted: September 12 2005 at 08:18
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Subwoofer you say? I'm not so sure... I prefer to remain in the Holy Path... Plus I'm not a great devote of home theatre and film on DVD, mainly because I'm a bit sat TV addicted...
Mmmmm... ------------- Still alive... |
...Posted By: the dragon
Date Posted: September 12 2005 at 08:30
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I've seen only now your post about Mission. Mission is a very very popular brand here, and you can find these speakers quite everywhere at a resonable price. Yes I know they are cheap and the Tablette don't (about 1000/1100 Euro), but a friend of mine has a pair of Tablette 50 (not actually the 2000) and I like very much as they sound. ------------- Still alive... |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 12 2005 at 08:59
I was like you! i believed that a subwoofer is not musical and makes boom-boom. But there are musical ones, intended only for music, 2 channels systems. (i don't do video and i hate multi channels systems) The effect is: -a huge opening of the image, 3d effect.You don't hear from where the music comes (because the extreme low is propaging on a omnidirectional way, contrary to speakers ). -A real sub features at least a 38 cm hp, which is the minimum to reproduce extreme low. Bass amps feature 38 cm loudspeakers, so when you hear a bass on a sub, it' s like the bass player is in the room. -It enhances low but also high!! it's softens the highs, moreover! it adds much dynamic, precense, details... As soon as you try it, you can't do without!! especially with a pair of stand speakers! Here's mine (Magnat omega 380) Featuring a 200 watts amp. (The speaker is below, oriented towards the ground) 
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 12 2005 at 09:03
Yeah i supposed that Proac Tablette has a quite transparent and detailed sound aesthetic. That's good, but don't do the classic mistake to put all your budget in the speakers and forget accesories. You 'll need a few more things in order your system works fully. I especially think about vibration canceller and power filtering. These two issues musn't be neglected. |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 12 2005 at 13:48
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Vibration cancellers accesories:
Here are ceramic cones that i strongly advice you ! Put that under your electronics (CD, amp) and it will change everything... 
Fadel/Amethyst (teflon/steel balls on stell base and teflon up) 
You can add carbon kevlar plate, which are extraordinary. And here's the best vib canceller(the plate is in magnetic levitation) 
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Posted By: the dragon
Date Posted: September 13 2005 at 05:39
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Ok for the ceramic cones... but vib canceller in magnetic levitation is too far for me... and probably it cost more than the entire NAD + ProAc system You own the Relaxa Two Plus in the picture above?
------------- Still alive... |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 13 2005 at 06:05
Yes, you’re right, Relaxa is as expensive and it’s not for you yet, considering your (future) system. No, I don’t own any Relaxa plate for the moment, my best friend has two: one under his linn LP12 turntable and another under his Counterpoint SA5000 preamplifier. I use myself a combination of ceramic cones under carbon/Kevlar plate and between the device and the plate, I put a set of Amethyst. This combination is quite expensive (about 500 € for the whole) but it’s the best I know after the Relaxa. To come back to your system, 2 sets of ceramic cones (100€ each) will add a dramatic improvement . If too expensive for you, best put one set of 3 cones under the CD, which is more sensitive to vib than the amp and put cheaper steel cones under the amp. Another essential tip is to put your CD on a stable and steady support (or directly on the floor if it’s hard floor), to put the ceramic cones below and to put the CD horizontal in the two dimensions with a plumb level. To reach horizontality, you can use little pieces of HARD wood that you put between the ground (or support, shelf) and the cones. Avoid soft matters which trap the vibrations. The harder the matter, the best the vibes flow. You can also put a heavy weight on your cd to cancel vibes (like a granit piece) This tip is also working for many devices, like speakers, subwoofer (I’ve put 100 kg of weight on my subwoofer). The horizontality tip is also working for loudspeakers. If you do all that, this will makes “boooom” |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 13 2005 at 08:07
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Last but not least is to work on power alimentation.
It includes many things. -First, avoid multiplugs. -Avoid to plug your devices on the same plug than your computer, TV or any other device. -Better plug each device directly on a wall plug. In your case, that’s easy, you got only 2 devices to plug. -Better use plug with earth plug. -You have to check that the phase and neutral are not reversed (very easy with an electric screwdriver) If yes, it ruins the sound. -Then you have to get good power cables. I use myself Eupen IMU13 which are cheap and good. There are the cheapest on the market, but not the worst-45€ for the cable- and really good!! I don’t know if it’s available in Italy. A good power cable remove harshness, gives softer highs and purest, cleaner sound. But I can advice you others products if you like. -The next step is to get a good power isolation filter. You put it between the wall plug and your cd and it makes “boom”: it removes half of the harshness, add softness in the highs…you can even double-filer (that’s what I do on digital). You can filter all devices, but to filter amps, you need 1 KVA to 5 KVA power filters…there are big! For cd, you only need 50 watts… -Then the ultimate step is to install dedicated power lines direct to the home/apartment electric counter. It avoids devices to pollute themselves. BTW, digital must be separated than the rest of the system, cause it generates much electric pollution. |
Posted By: the dragon
Date Posted: September 13 2005 at 09:23
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Wow, I'm sure that if I wish to buy your HiFi system I need to the national defence budget... But actually i'm not an audiophile, i think of myself like a music lover: i like a song for the song itself, the melody, the lyrics: i don't care if the sound is cristal clear (for now...). Maybe i haven't the right ear. There are many things that i must learn, i think In fact my actual budget is 3000 Euro: then i must to consider first the main component and then the rest (but if i understood something about your advices, you consider vital all the component, right?): but, if i enjoy the game, an add on to the budget isn't a great problem. Now I need some time to digest your advices and make a plan to fit all the system in my room and my spaces... btw: your friend own a Counterpoint SA5000 preamplifier: is a legend or is THE best? ------------- Still alive... |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 13 2005 at 11:26
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Wow!3000 € let you some margin for accesories, considering that the electronics (Nad) are cheap!!
I'm a music lover myself, and the magic of hifi is that you will rediscover INSTRUMENTS (not details) you have never heard on pieces you have heard hundreds of times. You don't need gold ears, these are not subtle differences. A good sytem let the music and emotion flows. May i suggest you others (analog)sources, (considering your budget)like a Denon tuner (the best in small budget tuners) and a Rega 3 turntable? Counterpoint sa5000 is not exactly the best preamp ever. You have Mark levinson which is the absolute must. But yes, it's among the best (i think it's the third) and it features an excellent phono stage. I wish to have one as it's a Ferrari in term of performances and musicality. Yes, it's fantastic! 
Yes, all the things i told you are essential, but note that some are free (like the horizontality tip, the power phase, you can put concrete piece  or a dictionnary on your cd -not too expensive- )
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 13 2005 at 11:31
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...and if you want to go further, these are serious options to consider:
Jolida 302 instead of the Nad -another world- (it's mine) 
Magnat Omega 380
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 13 2005 at 11:35
Denon tuner-very cheap and musical
Rega planar 3 Will beat big digital 
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 13 2005 at 12:47
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...i don't want to confuse you, but with such a budget, you can also reconsider the choice of the CD source
Nad is an EXCELLENT choice. Their CD are neutral and very musical. If you buy one, you'll be very happy anyway. But considering your budget, why not turning on something a little more dynamic like a Naim CD5? (you can get this for 500€ on occasion).The Naim's sound aesthetic is very good for rock! On a musical level, it has matter, weight, it's soft in the highs but quick and has dynamic (more than Nad). It images quite well and it's present. And it's very musical of course! On a technical side, their drawer system is very well and reliable, it's made of a piece of stell or something close, contrary to most plastic drawers, even on high end machines. It's manual so it avoid some polluting circuits. And it looks very nice. 
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 13 2005 at 13:09
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..to sum up, you have to go step by step.
I don't tell you to buy all in one time. Choose quietly your elements and don't neglect interconnect cables, which will allow you to reach a minimum level of transparency. You can buy the Van den Hull in modulation cables that your friend adviced you. In speakers cables, my advice would go for "Qed Silver anniversary bi wire" (with plugs). It's the middle-level of the brand. You must bi wire. 
Then after a few days/weeks of listening, when you will be used to your sound, try the vib cancellers...power phase, power cables. You'll climb a step each time... To the musical nirvana.... |
Posted By: the dragon
Date Posted: September 14 2005 at 10:03
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You uses so exquisite words that I suspect that you are an HiFi seller... Yes, ok, in the next weeks i must pass from the planning phase to the executive plan... Tank you again for the advices, see you on the site.
------------- Still alive... |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: September 14 2005 at 12:59
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Thank you. Don't hesitate to PM.
And a last advice: don't be afraid to buy on occasion. You can buy a naim CD5 in a serious shop without much risk. |