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John Zorn's Alchemists

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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=109591
Printed Date: March 06 2025 at 16:14
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Topic: John Zorn's Alchemists
Posted By: Thatfabulousalien
Subject: John Zorn's Alchemists
Date Posted: December 04 2016 at 23:50
A thread for all that love his music. 

His extremely diverse career has put out some very extraordinary masterpieces:















But there's way too much to list for an opening post, but you get the idea.

His music in some projects are very proggy, some bands are grindcore jazz, Klezma, surf rock, CLASSICAL, you name it! Beer


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Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.

https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325



Replies:
Posted By: DeadSouls
Date Posted: December 05 2016 at 11:09
My favourites are:

Masada - Live in Sevilla 2000
Filmworks XIII: Invitation to a Suicide
The Dreamers
O'o

Pretty much in the soft side of his music. Smile


Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: December 05 2016 at 12:03
Afficher limage dorigine


Posted By: Thatfabulousalien
Date Posted: December 08 2016 at 18:39
I don't know how many people here like classical music but Zorn's work; Chimeras is a masterpiece I highly recommend

-------------
Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.

https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325


Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: December 08 2016 at 19:14
Electric Masada - At The Mountains of Madness is damn awesome. One of the greatest live albums IMO.


Posted By: Thatfabulousalien
Date Posted: December 08 2016 at 22:21
Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

Electric Masada - At The Mountains of Madness is damn awesome. One of the greatest live albums IMO.


I completely agree, I love that live album.
Also the famous new York concerts with Naked City (easy to find on YouTube) are incredible performances!!

-------------
Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.

https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325


Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: December 09 2016 at 10:05
Another fan here. I prefer his more out/noisy/difficult recordings (like Naked City, Painkiller, Simulacrum, etc), but stuff like A Vision In Blakelight, The Goddess, Transmigration Of The Spirit... is quite wondrous.

Hard to keep up with everything he releases though. :p


-------------
Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.


Posted By: The Bearded Bard
Date Posted: December 12 2016 at 13:48
This is the only album of his I'm familiar with. Playful trad jazz interpretations (though they verge on avant jazz in places) of well-known Christmas tunes, plus a couple of self-composed tracks. Mostly instrumental, great fun. Recommended.


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Posted By: Thatfabulousalien
Date Posted: December 19 2016 at 17:07
IAO is amazing!!! Beer



-------------
Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.

https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325


Posted By: Thatfabulousalien
Date Posted: December 19 2016 at 17:10
My favorite Zorn albums are the following (In no specific order)

Radio
Chimeras
Mount Analogue
Simulacrum
The String Quartets
Astronome
IAO
The Alchemist
Songs Without Words
Hen To Pan
Fragments, Prayers and Interjections 
Grand Guignol
At the Mountains of Madness
Spillane
Angelus Novus
Guts of a Virgin
The Gift
Hermetic Organ (2 or 3, they're all amazing though)
Classic Guide to Strategy 
Anything from the original Masada band


-------------
Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.

https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325


Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: December 19 2016 at 17:38
^ Thanks for the list. I know only fragments of his output, there's much here to explore


Posted By: Thatfabulousalien
Date Posted: December 19 2016 at 17:41
Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

^ Thanks for the list. I know only fragments of his output, there's much here to explore

Cheers! Smile

I'm a bigger fan of contemporary classical music than any other genre, so that stuff is definitely among my favorite in Zorn's discography. Moonchild and the mystical series is also very close to the kind of aesthetics I love but obviously as a Zornian (Zorn fanatic), I have a very broad range in my musical tastes.

His recent organ trio group Simulacrum is certainly up the prog metal alley Embarrassed


-------------
Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.

https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325


Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: December 19 2016 at 18:19
Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

Electric Masada - At The Mountains of Madness is damn awesome. One of the greatest live albums IMO.

Whenever I want to listen to something more berserk and heavy than most metal bands, this is the one I reach for, I always get a silly grin whenever it gets insanely crunchy.


-------------
Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/


Posted By: Thatfabulousalien
Date Posted: December 19 2016 at 18:54
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

Electric Masada - At The Mountains of Madness is damn awesome. One of the greatest live albums IMO.

Whenever I want to listen to something more berserk and heavy than most metal bands, this is the one I reach for, I always get a silly grin whenever it gets insanely crunchy.

I enjoy the hell out of that one too, the playing is some of the tightest I've heard but at the same time it's so loose and free Handshake

Also, I think that version of Metaltov may have eclipsed the original Naked City version Shocked


-------------
Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.

https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325


Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: December 19 2016 at 19:01
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

Electric Masada - At The Mountains of Madness is damn awesome. One of the greatest live albums IMO.


Whenever I want to listen to something more berserk and heavy than most metal bands, this is the one I reach for, I always get a silly grin whenever it gets insanely crunchy.


Yeah, this along with a few other things e.g. certain Flying Luttenbachers stuff, satisfies my "avant but brutal" itch very nicely. My wife has pretty adventurous musical tastes (grew up on thrash and enjoys Magma, KC, etc) but this falls firmly into the realm of sh*t she will not tolerate.


Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: December 19 2016 at 19:05
Originally posted by Thatfabulousalien Thatfabulousalien wrote:

Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

^ Thanks for the list. I know only fragments of his output, there's much here to explore


Cheers! Smile

I'm a bigger fan of contemporary classical music than any other genre, so that stuff is definitely among my favorite in Zorn's discography. Moonchild and the mystical series is also very close to the kind of aesthetics I love but obviously as a Zornian (Zorn fanatic), I have a very broad range in my musical tastes.

His recent organ trio group Simulacrum is certainly up the prog metal alley Embarrassed


I wonder if you've run across the Australian avant-garde composer Antony Pateras? Really enjoy his stuff.

The Simulacrum album with Kenny Wolleson added on vibes, The Painted Bird, is one of my fave albums this year and has sparked a resurgence of my interest in what Zorn has been doing.


Posted By: Thatfabulousalien
Date Posted: December 19 2016 at 19:11
Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

Originally posted by Thatfabulousalien Thatfabulousalien wrote:

[QUOTE=Mascodagama]


I wonder if you've run across the Australian avant-garde composer Antony Pateras? Really enjoy his stuff.

The Simulacrum album with Kenny Wolleson added on vibes, The Painted Bird, is one of my fave albums this year and has sparked a resurgence of my interest in what Zorn has been doing.

I surprisingly haven't Confused but I'll check him out Thumbs Up 

The Aussie composer I'm most personally familiar with is probably Carl Vine but the majority of my favorite classical music came out of the Darmstadt school + Webern. 

Btw, is there a thread for classical music discussion here? 


-------------
Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.

https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325


Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: December 19 2016 at 19:47
Originally posted by Thatfabulousalien Thatfabulousalien wrote:

Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

Originally posted by Thatfabulousalien Thatfabulousalien wrote:

[QUOTE=Mascodagama]


I wonder if you've run across the Australian avant-garde composer Antony Pateras? Really enjoy his stuff.

The Simulacrum album with Kenny Wolleson added on vibes, The Painted Bird, is one of my fave albums this year and has sparked a resurgence of my interest in what Zorn has been doing.


I surprisingly haven't Confused but I'll check him out Thumbs Up 

The Aussie composer I'm most personally familiar with is probably Carl Vine but the majority of my favorite classical music came out of the Darmstadt school + Webern. 

Btw, is there a thread for classical music discussion here? 




Pateras is fairly obscure, I think. Which doesn't indicate any high level of knowledge on my part, I should add, I just randomly happened on his stuff somehow.

There is a thread about the symphony on the General Music Discussion board which resurfaces from time to time, started by a poster Presdoug who is quite knowledgeable. But other than that not a vast amount of classical discussion that I've noticed.




Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 10:05
Originally posted by The Bearded Bard The Bearded Bard wrote:

This is the only album of his I'm familiar with. Playful trad jazz interpretations (though they verge on avant jazz in places) of well-known Christmas tunes, plus a couple of self-composed tracks. Mostly instrumental, great fun. Recommended.

This is an odd one to be the only album of his that you know. Tongue but I do like to listen to it around this time of theyear.


-------------
Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.


Posted By: Thatfabulousalien
Date Posted: January 02 2017 at 23:13
Templars in sacred blood is another masterpiece, I can't believe I forgot to mention it!!! It's another absolute favorite Big smile




-------------
Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.

https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325


Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: January 06 2017 at 07:17
Originally posted by Thatfabulousalien Thatfabulousalien wrote:

My favorite Zorn albums are the following (In no specific order)

Radio
Chimeras
Mount Analogue
Simulacrum
The String Quartets
Astronome
IAO
The Alchemist
Songs Without Words
Hen To Pan
Fragments, Prayers and Interjections 
Grand Guignol
At the Mountains of Madness
Spillane
Angelus Novus
Guts of a Virgin
The Gift
Hermetic Organ (2 or 3, they're all amazing though)
Classic Guide to Strategy 
Anything from the original Masada band

I have started picking up a few of these.  So far, Mount Analogue is outstanding.  Parts of it remind me quite a bit of some of the more avant-garde output of Blue Note Records in the sixties, particularly the albums featuring Bobby Hutcherson on vibes / marimba and Joe Chambers on drums. The resemblance may be coincidental - or indeed exist only in my mind! - though I've no doubt Zorn is familiar with this oeuvre. But the piece as a whole seems entirely individual to me.




Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: January 06 2017 at 09:58
What a fascinating career Clap 


Posted By: Terrapin Station
Date Posted: January 06 2017 at 12:08
Some Zorn I love, some I hate, and there's a lot of in-between.  That's very rare for me.  I usually don't think that artists vacillate a lot in quality, and there's not a lot of music I hate in general, but definitely some Zorn I've hated.  I find Zorn a bit frustrating because of this.  If I were to dislike everything he does I could just ignore him, but I like some stuff enough that I feel a need to hunt for the gold in his work.  The sheer volume of stuff that he puts out makes this more frustrating.  Since I only strongly like a minority of his work, he reminds me of Buckethead in that, and I find myself thinking, "Man, try not releasing an album every week, so that you have more time to well-develop your material and achieve better consistency.  You can discard some of those ideas."  He's not quite as bad as Buckethead in this, at least.--Buckethead I just completely gave up on.  I'm not sifting through 500 "Pike" albums just to try to find a few good tunes.

The Big Gundown is probably my favorite album of his that I'm familiar with . . . some of the Naked City stuff is probably second, although sometimes the balance with Naked City is too far on the jokey grindcore stuff.  I don't mind a couple of those tracks, but too many of them just starts to seem like filler to me--so obviously the Torture Garden album wasn't that good of an idea in my opinion.  The bottom line with me is that I like quirky stuff--obviously as a prog fan I would, but ideally I still want tunes with some semblance of traditional push-pull techniques with melody, harmony, rhythmic patterns, sectional structures, some catchiness, etc.

At any rate, Zorn's almost always interesting from a conceptual angle, at least, but that's not sufficient for me to like something.


Posted By: DeadSouls
Date Posted: January 06 2017 at 14:31
Things I've been enjoying lately:

Filmworks I - 1986-1990
A Dreamers Christmas
Naked City Live, Volume 1 - Knitting Factory 1989 (This is the only Naked City album I can listen to, it's free of annoying vocals)


Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: January 06 2017 at 16:55
Originally posted by Terrapin Station Terrapin Station wrote:

Some Zorn I love, some I hate, and there's a lot of in-between.  That's very rare for me.  I usually don't think that artists vacillate a lot in quality, and there's not a lot of music I hate in general, but definitely some Zorn I've hated.  I find Zorn a bit frustrating because of this.  If I were to dislike everything he does I could just ignore him, but I like some stuff enough that I feel a need to hunt for the gold in his work.  The sheer volume of stuff that he puts out makes this more frustrating.  Since I only strongly like a minority of his work, he reminds me of Buckethead in that, and I find myself thinking, "Man, try not releasing an album every week, so that you have more time to well-develop your material and achieve better consistency.  You can discard some of those ideas."  He's not quite as bad as Buckethead in this, at least.--Buckethead I just completely gave up on.  I'm not sifting through 500 "Pike" albums just to try to find a few good tunes.

The Big Gundown is probably my favorite album of his that I'm familiar with . . . some of the Naked City stuff is probably second, although sometimes the balance with Naked City is too far on the jokey grindcore stuff.  I don't mind a couple of those tracks, but too many of them just starts to seem like filler to me--so obviously the Torture Garden album wasn't that good of an idea in my opinion.  The bottom line with me is that I like quirky stuff--obviously as a prog fan I would, but ideally I still want tunes with some semblance of traditional push-pull techniques with melody, harmony, rhythmic patterns, sectional structures, some catchiness, etc.

At any rate, Zorn's almost always interesting from a conceptual angle, at least, but that's not sufficient for me to like something.

Sounds like you are not an alchemist then. Wink

Just some fun of course. I certainly don't blame anyone for not liking Zorn (in any facet really). Smile


-------------
Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.


Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: January 06 2017 at 16:59
Originally posted by DeadSouls DeadSouls wrote:

Things I've been enjoying lately:

Filmworks I - 1986-1990
A Dreamers Christmas
Naked City Live, Volume 1 - Knitting Factory 1989 (This is the only Naked City album I can listen to, it's free of annoying vocals)

Absinthe doesn't have annoying vocals either.


-------------
Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.


Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: January 06 2017 at 17:00
Also, really starting to love the Simulacrum releases. Both The Painted Bird and 49 Acts... will be making my top 20 list from last year.

-------------
Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.


Posted By: Thatfabulousalien
Date Posted: January 06 2017 at 17:03
Originally posted by Man With Hat Man With Hat wrote:

Also, really starting to love the Simulacrum releases. Both The Painted Bird and 49 Acts... will be making my top 20 list from last year.

I fell in love with the first Simulacrum when it came out, the Painted Bird and Inferno are also incredible. Great you like it!!! Big smile


-------------
Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.

https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325


Posted By: Thatfabulousalien
Date Posted: January 06 2017 at 17:07
I forgot to mention this album, which is another of my favorite Moonchild albums:



Aside from (the masterpiece) Astronome, you can't go wrong with this one. It's it's more song-structured and the vocals are text (aka lyrics). Astronome is still the shining achievement for me of the series though. 


-------------
Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.

https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325


Posted By: Thatfabulousalien
Date Posted: January 23 2017 at 23:00


-------------
Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.

https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325


Posted By: Thatfabulousalien
Date Posted: January 30 2017 at 01:20


-------------
Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.

https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325


Posted By: Thatfabulousalien
Date Posted: April 01 2017 at 23:55
New Zorn you need to hear:





-------------
Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.

https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325


Posted By: socrates17
Date Posted: April 09 2017 at 14:50
I love most Zorn:  Masada, Electric Masada, Bar Kokhba, Cobra, Naked City, Locus Solus, The Big Gundown, Duras: Duchamp, Spy v Spy: The Music of Ornette Coleman, The String Quartets, Filmworks.  He's SO prolific that I haven't scratched the surface of his classical music or Filmworks, yet nearly everything I hear, I enjoy.

I  was lucky enough to see him a few times, since first running into him working the counter at Soho Music (everybody's got to start somewhere).  I saw the premiere of The Big Gundown at the Brooklyn Academy of Music.  Also, with Naked City and Masada at The Knitting Factory & doing solo and quartet improves with Fred Frith at The Kitchen.


Posted By: Thatfabulousalien
Date Posted: April 09 2017 at 14:56
Have you heard the Masada/Book of Angels?

A whole other world of his creative output, it's a lifestyle in itself (with quite a large religious and historical element)

-------------
Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.

https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325


Posted By: Thatfabulousalien
Date Posted: April 09 2017 at 14:59
Also, with the classical area of his work, you can't go wrong with the Cartoon S/M CD. It's got string quartets, chamber orchestra and a genre hopping solo piano piece. Very different from his more spiritual/occult-charged current works (which are also mindblowing)

-------------
Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.

https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325


Posted By: Thatfabulousalien
Date Posted: April 27 2017 at 05:12
New Zorn string trio:



....which appears on the new album called "There is no more Firmament":










-------------
Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.

https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325



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