Is it me or is prog virtually dead and buried in the United Kingdom?

I'm finding it harder and harder to see, hear or even buy prog in one of the places that gave birth to the form. When was the last time you saw a new prog act (that isn't an offshoot of an establish band) form in the UK?

With the exception of Marillion, even a lot of the established acts (IQ, Pendragon, Jadis, Galahad, etc) have a tough time pulling a big crowd in their native country unless it's part of a festival. Most now appear play abroad to keep the wolf from the door (a startling similarity to the UK Jazz scene of the late 70’s/early 80’s).

 Is it that people just don't want to be in a prog band because they cannot see much opportunity to reach an audience or maybe that the lack of small live venues in the UK (and especially London) stops them from getting that 'first' gig? Possibly the average prog fan in Britain is too old and comfortable to bother going out as the lure of a quiet night in with a beer and a DVD has become overwhelming?

Personally, I think the problem might lie in the fact that there is no progressive grass root level anymore. The counter culture of Britain doesn't seem to see it as exciting avenue of exploration anymore.

All around the world I can see (courtesy of the archives) prog finding new audiences and discovering fresh talent to fuel the music and that is great, as a fan I couldn't be happie. I'd be even happier however to be proven wrong about my assumptions regarding Britain but sincerely doubt it.

UK Prog R.I.P?.

I dont think it's dead in the UK, but it needs a push start!

The challenge:

Making YOUNG people take an interest in writing music that is 'good' it does not have to be 'cool' it has to be 'good' Music that is thoughtful and original in its composition. Music that challenges the listener. For this we need to re-acquaint people with an old concept known as 'The attention span' Too many people young and old want everything now!!! Food delivered to their door. 1000 channels of sh!t 'on the TV to choose from' They also want instant music, it's the old 'Bon Jovi syndrome' of DONT BORE US, GET US TO THE CHORUS!!

The listening masses need to chill and somehjow be educated in how to enjoy music again. The songs dont have to be 20 minutes long, just interesting, memorable and thoughtfully constructed. Radiohead have made a start, I guess, but it aint enough...

I aint got the answers sigod & co, it's YOUNG PEOPLE!!!! WHO HOLD THE KEY. I ORDER EVERYONE UNDER THE AGE OF 25 ON THIS FORUM WITH ANY MUSICAL ABILITY TO FORM A PROG BAND AND PRACTICE YOUR NUTS OFF NOW, AND BRING PROG BACK TO THE MASSES!! DO IT!!!

please...

I wouldn't say it was dead, but it could be in better health.

The problems as I see it are: -

a) prog doesn't get played on the radio (that is, the mainstream radio stations)

b) prog albums are hard to find in the major retail outlets.

c) prog is still derided in most music press.

However, while bands like Pendragon and IQ are still going and producing CDs like "Dark Matter" then there's still life in the old dog.

Blacksword wrote: I dont think it's dead in the UK, but it needs a push start! The challenge: Making YOUNG people take an interest in writing music that is 'good' it does not have to be 'cool' it has to be 'good' Music that is thoughtful and original in its composition. Music that challenges the listener. For this we need to re-acquaint people with an old concept known as 'The attention span' Too many people young and old want everything now!!! Food delivered to their door. 1000 channels of sh!t 'on the TV to choose from' They also want instant music, it's the old 'Bon Jovi syndrome' of DONT BORE US, GET US TO THE CHORUS!! The listening masses need to chill and somehjow be educated in how to enjoy music again. The songs dont have to be 20 minutes long, just interesting, memorable and thoughtfully constructed. Radiohead have made a start, I guess, but it aint enough... I aint got the answers sigod & co, it's YOUNG PEOPLE!!!! WHO HOLD THE KEY. I ORDER EVERYONE UNDER THE AGE OF 25 ON THIS FORUM WITH ANY MUSICAL ABILITY TO FORM A PROG BAND AND PRACTICE YOUR NUTS OFF NOW, AND BRING PROG BACK TO THE MASSES!! DO IT!!! please...

Well said Blacksword.

Most of the classic prog bands were brilliant musicians (Emerson, Howe, Banks etc) - where are all these types of people nowadays?

We need prog guerillas to sneak 'round London one night strategically placing hi-fi systems around the city.  Wake everyone to "....All Good People".....they won't be able to keep prog on the shelves.

Actually, in all likelihood the poor prog freedom fighters would be shot down and prog would become even more vilified than before.  Damn you Uncut magazine!

Dead? Well, it was coughing up blood last night....

Right -- I'll have the dead, unjugged Fish-prog.

Cor! That was really 'orrible!

Moan moan moan -- you're always complaining!

What's for afters?

Blacksword wrote: I dont think it's dead in the UK, but it needs a push start! The challenge: Making YOUNG people take an interest in writing music that is 'good' it does not have to be 'cool' it has to be 'good' Music that is thoughtful and original in its composition. Music that challenges the listener. For this we need to re-acquaint people with an old concept known as 'The attention span' Too many people young and old want everything now!!! Food delivered to their door. 1000 channels of sh!t 'on the TV to choose from' They also want instant music, it's the old 'Bon Jovi syndrome' of DONT BORE US, GET US TO THE CHORUS!! The listening masses need to chill and somehjow be educated in how to enjoy music again. The songs dont have to be 20 minutes long, just interesting, memorable and thoughtfully constructed. Radiohead have made a start, I guess, but it aint enough... I aint got the answers sigod & co, it's YOUNG PEOPLE!!!! WHO HOLD THE KEY. I ORDER EVERYONE UNDER THE AGE OF 25 ON THIS FORUM WITH ANY MUSICAL ABILITY TO FORM A PROG BAND AND PRACTICE YOUR NUTS OFF NOW, AND BRING PROG BACK TO THE MASSES!! DO IT!!! please...

I play keyboards, sing and compose, I'm 14, and I've seriously thought about it (or at least dreamed ). But a band needs more than one member, and I've never met another prog fan in my life.  Except a very good bassist friend of mine, but he lives four hours away from me.  And I've failed to successfully convert my friends, too.  And I don't know any good drummers.  But man, It'd be cool to have a prog band that made it really big!   

On the contrary, I think there's probably been more exposure for Prog Rock this year than in recent memory. At the very top there was Pink Floyd at Live 8, but by far the key event is the Van Der Graaf Generator reunion which was picked up by all the "broadsheet" newspapers.

The old stagers are still going. Yes toured in 2004. I'm hoping to see Greg Lake in a few weeks.

It has to be accepted that prog rock is not part of the mainstream and the newer bands will not get mass exposure. However, the niche which it has occupied since the late 70s is very much alive.

p

Well, I dare to post to this forum, although I'm not British or English native speaker, but I admire British culture and spent my best holidays twice in United Kingdom. Terry Pratchett is among my most favourite writers.

Progressive music started as British music and it defined this style. It couldn't start without British heritage and attitude and will stay British till the end of the world. We owe you everything.

Sadly, the British people don't appreciate it. It was British critics who brought punk rock (be this name damned forever!!) into pedestal, declaring prog artists as dinosaurs. But you may call London as equivalent in musical mainstream to Paris in fashion about clothes, therefore you dictate the passing musical modes. There was punk, then new wave, then new romantic, then Manchester, then brit pop, now he have new guitar revolution. Bear in mind that prog was declared passe almost thirty years ago.

However, UK changes itself IMHO. Could you find people nowadays, who might fancy songs rooting to British heritage like Jerusalem or Jack In The Green? or bother themselves with Beowulf told from Grendel's point of wiev? How many people you know, who may indicate connections between "Firth of Fifth" and T.S. Eliot's "Wasteland" ? (but there is no water... who will heal progressive Fisher King?) I wish I'm wrong.

And can you imagine Harry Potter (which is quite amusing) bringing forth as much musical inspiration as Tolkien's masterpieces? Lord Of The Rings was even filmed in New Zealand.

And stop dreaming about Pink Floyd coming back. They will never do. However, I believe, there exist an obscure British band, who one day compose a catchy tune like "Lucky Man", "Roundabout" or "Market Square Heroes" and will be discovered by someone like deceased people from Charisma (where are they, btw? They lacking is main purpose IMHO for current state of british prog), who will bring them into "Top of the pops" (is it true you have songs like "Christmas all around us" shown in "Love Actually"?) and we will have another prog band in mainstream. There is still hope for Waste Land, Grail is yet to be found. 

Porcupine Tree - a modern english prog band the uk should be proud of. I believe that this band should be an inspiration for young prog listeners to make music, make a band and learn to write songs. The nowaday prog scene in the uk needs more such bands like PT, who are able to move the good old brittish prog forward in a modern way and create something own. The brittish prog isn't dead yet.

Syntharachnid wrote: Blacksword wrote: I dont think it's dead in the UK, but it needs a push start! The challenge: Making YOUNG people take an interest in writing music that is 'good' it does not have to be 'cool' it has to be 'good' Music that is thoughtful and original in its composition. Music that challenges the listener. For this we need to re-acquaint people with an old concept known as 'The attention span' Too many people young and old want everything now!!! Food delivered to their door. 1000 channels of sh!t 'on the TV to choose from' They also want instant music, it's the old 'Bon Jovi syndrome' of DONT BORE US, GET US TO THE CHORUS!! The listening masses need to chill and somehjow be educated in how to enjoy music again. The songs dont have to be 20 minutes long, just interesting, memorable and thoughtfully constructed. Radiohead have made a start, I guess, but it aint enough... I aint got the answers sigod & co, it's YOUNG PEOPLE!!!! WHO HOLD THE KEY. I ORDER EVERYONE UNDER THE AGE OF 25 ON THIS FORUM WITH ANY MUSICAL ABILITY TO FORM A PROG BAND AND PRACTICE YOUR NUTS OFF NOW, AND BRING PROG BACK TO THE MASSES!! DO IT!!! please... I play keyboards, sing and compose, I'm 14, and I've seriously thought about it (or at least dreamed ). But a band needs more than one member, and I've never met another prog fan in my life.  Except a very good bassist friend of mine, but he lives four hours away from me.  And I've failed to successfully convert my friends, too.  And I don't know any good drummers.  But man, It'd be cool to have a prog band that made it really big!

You are potentially part of the future of prog!!  You'll meet musicians as you get older, I'm sure. Always keep your eye on ads in the musuc papers for people looking for other musicians to work with, but most importantly KEEP COMPOSING!! Keep the ideas flowing and keep listening to as much music as you can, learning form the masters but NOT copying them.

Then, move to the UK from Canada and be the saviour of UK prog  

I have located one new UK prog band that has formed recently and that's a group called Strangefish but I haven't heard any of their stuff yes. Apparently they are quite popular with the Classic Rock Society mob up in North England. The last new prog band before that? Possibly Landmarq.

I agree btw Popesta with your evaluation of the big acts and I hope that they inspire younger musicians to take up the genre. Individuals like Syntharachnid are essential to the continued existence of Prog in the UK.

If only I had a million quid, I start up a live venue dedicated to prog...

...but what would I call it?
  

uk prog still meanders underground unsullied by the polluted pap that lies above in the mainstream chart dead sea.   Pendragon, Porcupine tree, Guy Manning et al still producing new exciting Progressive Music, with the old stagers such as Yes &VDGG still showing what it means to have musical ability.

I have always believed that apart from brief flashes of commercial chart excellence that give the great unwashed a clue of what is going on in the 'real music world', that Prog should stay a secret, wonderful pleasure known only to initiated.  It's like having a Van Gogh hanging in your your own living room to view appreciatively alone. I take pride in my musical preference & when colleagues at work say what the f*~k is that noise your'e listening to, whilst singing along to the latest destiny's child cannibalized mish-mash they call pop, I can only smile to myself happy with the knowledge I don't run with the lobotomised pack.

Finally a warning to all budding Prog rock bands or senior members of this august musical society, if anyone dares to fuse Prog rock with Rap -  I will hunt you down like a dog & rip your tongue out.

 thank you for your time

Hi there

I have just had the pleasure of organising the Summer's End Festival in Gloucester and would like to say that I think there is plenty of prog talent out there, new and more established, desperate to get out and play. But (and it is a big but) ...

The single biggest obstacle to the UK prog scene (or lack of it) is the difficulty of getting people out of their homes and into the venues. Without an audience, venue managers won't book prog -  it really is a simple matter of economics. Oasis and Abba tribute bands sell out, prog bands attract thirty if they're lucky; who are they going to book?

Summer's End presented six bands in a first class venue at just £18, yet we sold less than 150 tickets. The response from those who attended has been overwhelmingly positive but if the live prog scene is to develop and grow the audience are going to have to shake off the lethargy and support the bands' efforts!

Sorry if I sound bolshy but I really feel very passionate about this!!

PROGtologist wrote: uk prog still meanders underground unsullied by the polluted pap that lies above in the mainstream chart dead sea.   Pendragon, Porcupine tree, Guy Manning et al still producing new exciting Progressive Music, with the old stagers such as Yes &VDGG still showing what it means to have musical ability. I have always believed that apart from brief flashes of commercial chart excellence that give the great unwashed a clue of what is going on in the 'real music world', that Prog should stay a secret, wonderful pleasure known only to initiated.  It's like having a Van Gogh hanging in your your own living room to view appreciatively alone. I take pride in my musical preference & when colleagues at work say what the f*~k is that noise your'e listening to, whilst singing along to the latest destiny's child cannibalized mish-mash they call pop, I can only smile to myself happy with the knowledge I don't run with the lobotomised pack. Finally a warning to all budding Prog rock bands or senior members of this august musical society, if anyone dares to fuse Prog rock with Rap -  I will hunt you down like a dog & rip your tongue out.    thank you for your time

How about Pain Of Salvation? And rap can be ok when the lyrics aren't the balls they seem to be in morden stuff. Look at Rage Against The Machine!

If prog is dying, it's because not enough young people are made aware of it.

I teach in a school with a sixth form (aged 16 to 18). There are Rush and Pink Floyd fans galore. I lent a student my copy of the Snow Goose. He has since bought Mirage. Another student then borrowed the Snow Goose and today his girlfriend came amd asked me if she could borrow it because she likes it so much. We've had 2112 and Lady Fantasy played on the Common Room CD player at break recently. Other prog gets played too, regularly. (This can be confirmed since some of the students are members of this site!!!!)

What this shows is that young people WILL listen to prog and like it PROVIDED they hear about it. It's up to us to spread the word about prog because the media are so up their own a***s trying to be trendy and cool that they ignore it or, worse still, project a negative image of it.

Hello Sigod.

In May 2004 the UK music magazine Record Collector published a special entitled Prog Then And Now featuring bands like Radiohead, The Coral, Spiritualized, Muse, Air, The Cooper Temple Clause and Gorky's Zygotic Mynci, The Polyphonic Spree, Tool and Super Furry Animals. Most of these bands I don't know but perhaps it gives you some hope. Forget about the great time with the symphonic rock dinosaurs Yes, ELP, King Crimson and Genesis, forget about the wonderful neo-progressive rock movement in The Eighties, spearheaded by Marillion. Nowadays the progrock is regaining respect and emerges in new and creative ways, not always my cup of tea but their is a new spirit!

jaguar wrote: Hi there I have just had the pleasure of organising the Summer's End Festival in Gloucester and would like to say that I think there is plenty of prog talent out there, new and more established, desperate to get out and play. But (and it is a big but) ... The single biggest obstacle to the UK prog scene (or lack of it) is the difficulty of getting people out of their homes and into the venues. Without an audience, venue managers won't book prog -  it really is a simple matter of economics. Oasis and Abba tribute bands sell out, prog bands attract thirty if they're lucky; who are they going to book? Summer's End presented six bands in a first class venue at just £18, yet we sold less than 150 tickets. The response from those who attended has been overwhelmingly positive but if the live prog scene is to develop and grow the audience are going to have to shake off the lethargy and support the bands' efforts! Sorry if I sound bolshy but I really feel very passionate about this!!

More power to you sir. I personally have printed out copies of the poster which you guys made available for download and had stuck 'em up in as many places I could.

It was a great line up and everyone who was involved should be proud of themselves!!

I totally agree with your diagnosis. The majority of people need a 'critical mass' of interest before those who like prog passively, cross over into being active participants.

From what I remember, the next big prog event in the UK is the Progeny festival at the London Astoria on Nov 19th & 20th which has Rick Wakeman, Galahad, Richard Sinclair, Landmarq etc, so I guess it's up to those who care (and are local ) to show up and support these guys.

The alternative to this is staying at home and watching Prog die a long slow death in the UK.

erik neuteboom wrote: Hello Sigod. In May 2004 the UK music magazine Record Collector published a special entitled Prog Then And Now featuring bands like Radiohead, The Coral, Spiritualized, Muse, Air, The Cooper Temple Clause and Gorky's Zygotic Mynci, The Polyphonic Spree, Tool and Super Furry Animals. Most of these bands I don't know but perhaps it gives you some hope. Forget about the great time with the symphonic rock dinosaurs Yes, ELP, King Crimson and Genesis, forget about the wonderful neo-progressive rock movement in The Eighties, spearheaded by Marillion. Nowadays the progrock is regaining respect and emerges in new and creative ways, not always my cup of tea but their is a new spirit!

Eric

Thanks for replying and I hear what you say. I have always rooted for any band or publication that has progressive elements in it's music even (like you) I might not know or indeed, like their music. A new generation should have it's own thoughts and ideas about what progressive music should sound like, it’s only natural as the world is a dynamic place and artists always seek to write about what they know. Many might prefer the traditional elements of the older bands and even 'revivalist' groups like (IMO) Glass Hammer as you have a ready made (albeit, aging) audience for their music.

Still more might head off in the direction of Radiohead or Mars Volta, etc and that is cool as well. However my contention is that the UK might no-longer be the hotbed of progressive music it was simply due to the lack of a grass roots level in the genre. Back in the 80's, the neo-prog movement was a strong and vibrant one and held up the genre from below but these bands are now 20 years old themselves without many signs of a new generation of British prog bands to burst through at the level they once inhabited (i.e. the pubs and bars of the UK).

I just hope I'm way off the mark here and there is a new wave of prog just waiting to break out onto the scene so if you’re out there, please let us all know.

erik neuteboom wrote: Hello Sigod. In May 2004 the UK music magazine Record Collector published a special entitled Prog Then And Now featuring bands like Radiohead, The Coral, Spiritualized, Muse, Air, The Cooper Temple Clause and Gorky's Zygotic Mynci, The Polyphonic Spree, Tool and Super Furry Animals. Most of these bands I don't know but perhaps it gives you some hope. Forget about the great time with the symphonic rock dinosaurs Yes, ELP, King Crimson and Genesis, forget about the wonderful neo-progressive rock movement in The Eighties, spearheaded by Marillion. Nowadays the progrock is regaining respect and emerges in new and creative ways, not always my cup of tea but their is a new spirit!

With respect, most of the artists you have listed there are not progressive in the least. I have hi-lighted the ones that could be considered so IMO. The Super Furry Animals are an 'Indie rock' band, and the Coral are an 'Indie pop' band. If we are to include these artists under the prog umbrella, then we must also welcome Blur, and a whole host of other bands who have occassionally recorded something that doesn't come out of the pop mould. Thats when prog becomes meaningless. When it becomes meaningless it blends into all the other spineless sh!t that dominates the charts, and then IS effectivley dead.

moonlitbay wrote: I think Arena has the same problem (not selling enough tickets in the UK). They are now (end of September) playing three gigs in Norway. Hoenefoss, Bergen and Trondheim. I think it's brilliant, but thats just because now I get a chance to see them live again. I've always thought that this band would have no problem filling venues in the UK..... Have they?

You'd think that Arena would have no problems moonlitbay but I suspect even they might struggle to fill a venue in the UK without significant notice. That's not to say that Area are not a good band but merely that (as has already been stated), trying to get an audience to prog gig can (sometimes) be like pushing and octopus through a window blind (i.e. VERY difficult! ).

I'm not sure if this is because there is a conservative streak running through many concert punters who would rather play safe and see an established act like Yes, ELP (when they tour) or even Marillion who can put on a big show and thrill the crowd with known material.

I saw Kino recently at the Astoria and although it was well attended and the band were playing new material, the Marillion/It Bites connection naturally drew more people to it than if it had been four unknown musicians playing the same music.

Elsewhere in the world, live music is still regarded as a good thing to go out and see and thanks to that one element; new bands of whatever genre have the ability to mature and get to know the world. In turn, the world slowly gets to know them and if they are any good, there is a chance that they can go onto the next level.

I guess it's up to those who care to get out there and try and do something about it.

Hmmmm…