Would you fight for your country..
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Topic: Would you fight for your country..
Posted By: Blacksword
Subject: Would you fight for your country..
Date Posted: August 18 2016 at 03:20
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One morning a letter is delivered to your house. You have been called up to fight in some overseas conflict.. Regardless of your age etc, this is a hyperthetical question. What would your reaction be? Lets assume the penalty for refusing to fight was prison, not firing squad! ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Replies:
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: August 18 2016 at 03:51
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No, I'm both a pacifist and a coward, and I also can't think of anything worth fighting for. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 18 2016 at 04:19
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I'm a pacifist but any attempt at claiming to be conscientious objector would fail miserably because I have spent all my working life either in the defence industry or on the periphery of it, however, that would not stop me from trying. I don't regard the apparent dichotomy of enabling the production of weapons of defence against the reluctance to use them as weapons of aggression as being a moral dilemma that pricks my conscience. In all philosophical moral dilemma arguments I've always favoured 'a third option' as being the only viable alternative - the only morally acceptable result of a war is where no one dies. ------------- What? |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: August 18 2016 at 04:33
Other: If I was 50 years younger, I would think about it, but would probably say no anyway. 
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: August 18 2016 at 05:20
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Good poll, and a difficult question for yours truly, because as a callow yoof, I joined the RAF, not that it lasted particularly long. As I have grown up, I have seen the utter futility, and waste of life, of politically or economically motivated wars. There is a difference between such ventures and genuine threats such as fascist dictators invading you, or mad mullahs threatening your way of life. I think at 51 I am too old to be called up now anyway. If not, then I would plead a reserved occupation. I mean, every society needs a tax inspector in both times of war and peace, surely? ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: zappaholic
Date Posted: August 18 2016 at 05:51
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Vietnam and Lebanon are other people's wars I won't fight unless it's right, corporate wars no more I believe this country's worth my life to help defend I won't fight to help keep the Dow Jones out of the red ~ Nuclear Assault, "Fight To Be Free", 1988 ------------- "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: August 18 2016 at 06:03
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This is a rather tough one and I am grateful to know that this question will linger on the hypothetical plane rather than thumping on my door in real life. As a youth I escaped being forced into military service by being born in 1959 and I still hope that the choice between giving them hell and enduring captivity will stay far from me in my lifetime. I choose the "Other" option. The answer is probably NO. Not because I am a pacifist or a coward, in fact I am a bit pacifist and quite a coward. It is more because, as a domestic pig, I would hate to be dragged in an overseas conflict taking place a few thousand kilometers away from my sty. Oil? Europe has prostituted itself for 41 years because of this. Protect Israel? OK, that would be a worthier cause. Direct threats? My country is suffering more and more from these, our own leaders are not the least of threats.
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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: August 18 2016 at 06:08
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In some government office filed away in a dark cabinet or microfiched on a fading bit of film that never quite made it to the computer age, is my draft card, which I was required to sign when I was 18. On the back, in prominent letters I wrote how I objected to war and signing a draft card in the first place. But although I must have thought I was quite bold for declaring my disavowal of war in all my teenage rebelliousness, I look back and see that they were sentiments cheaply bought, considering I signed the draft card in 1978 when there was no actual war being fought, but it was still required by all red-blooded American 18 year-olds as part of some lingering hangover from Nixon and the Vietnam War. But now, older and quite secure and heading towards possibly collecting my well-earned Social Security benefits (which I may or may not get, given the dysfunction of the government, but which I have dutifully paid for all the 40 years of my working life), I have a slightly different perspective. There are wars and then there are Wars. No war is good, of course, in that from an historical context rarely are there sufficient benefits to society to ever make up for the loss of life, the loss of limbs and the toll on the minds of those still suffering from service. So there better be a pretty damn good reason for declaring war, and looking back over the last century, I would count WWII as the only valid war fought for any reason other than self-aggrandizement, gain, muddled politics, abject stupidity, or a combination of all. And given the aftermath of WWII, they even screwed that up. I would jump to protect my home and family. But that is far different than chasing erstwhile peasant farmers through rice paddies and declaring the world safe for American democracy. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: August 18 2016 at 06:11
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I should probably give my answer as it's my poll. I would fight if there was a direct and proven threat to my country. I wouldn't go to fight in the desert for a geo-political strategy dressed up as a humanitarian interventions, as most of our Middle East entanglements have been in my humble opinion. I'm certainly not a pacifist. If we define [pacifism as the rejection of ALL violence then that includes self defence and the protection of loved ones from the violence of others, but the definition is not that clear and is often used only in relation to 'international disputes' Discuss..? Also, I was quite specific in this poll about it being an overseas conflict, but what if your country was being invaded. Does that change anyones position? ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 18 2016 at 06:25
Well, no. Pacifist and Pacifism is specifically about making peace and averting warfare, and are only applied to all acts of violence in general non-specific terms as a consequence of that. Etymologically they are derived from "to pacify" meaning "to make peace" so any connotations of that are directly related to the belief that war and violence are unjustifiable and that all disputes should be settled by peaceful means. Geography and national boundaries are not relevant here as one can object to fighting on foreign soil without having any pacifistic ideals. ------------- What? |
Blacksword wrote:Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: August 18 2016 at 07:04
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I'd rather eat lead than kill for this country tbh |
Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: August 18 2016 at 07:06
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I don't know about other countries but in the US the draft stopped in 1973. I was drafted and reported to the Induction Center in Los Angeles on August 19, 1969. The poll options are interesting as far as discussion goes but none of them mattered back when young men were being drafted. If you were 1A and received your notice you had three choices; report for duty, go to jail, move to Canada. |
Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: August 18 2016 at 07:28
Yes even if just to protect Israel 
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Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: August 18 2016 at 07:54
| If they are so desperate they have to ask me then we are f**ked already. |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 18 2016 at 08:16
| Only if free music was added on to the Constitution |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: August 18 2016 at 08:50
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No I wouldn't. Unless they give me a lot of stimulants. ------------- 
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 18 2016 at 09:40
Because conscription is a legal thing it obviously varies from country to country so the alternatives offered to conscientious objectors also vary. In the UK conscription ended in 1960 with the last conscripted men being discharged in 1963 - prison was never a choice for those sent conscription orders. Conscientious objectors faced a military service tribunal with four possible outcomes: full exemption, exemption conditional on alternative service, exemption only from combatant duties, or dismiss of the application for exemption. It was only the last outcome that could lead to a prison sentence as those whose application for exemption was dismissed were automatically enlisted into one of the armed services so any further protest or abstention would be treated as disobeying a direct order and subject to court martial. This is one of the few "serious" things I ever talked about with my dad back in the late 60s as he had a somewhat positive view on National Service even though he had a jaded view on authoritarianism and the unfair privileges of rank. In an effort to dissuade any thoughts I may have had about peace and love and all that hippy crap he related the story of how a 'conchie' who had been enlisted at the same time has him was treated by officers and enlisted men - where this kid would be escorted from the guardhouse each morning to muster with the rest of them, was presented with a uniform which each morning he would refuse to pick up before being frogmarched back to the guardhouse, all the while being taunted and berated by the NCOs as a coward and disgrace to Queen and country in a continuous tirade of verbal abuse. My dad's reaction to this was a strange mix of contempt for anyone who refused to fight, contempt for how the guy was continually subjected to public humiliation and a begrudging respect for anyone who stood up for their beliefs. From that moment on he never saw conscientious objectors as cowards, quite the contrary. He told me straight that I'd never be strong enough to cope with that and I would put on the uniform (and I fear he was probably right).
------------- What? |
Posted By: Ozark Soundscape
Date Posted: August 18 2016 at 10:18
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I'm a diabetic so they wouldn't let me in. But even if they would I wouldn't. The USA's military activity of the past 50 years has been questionable to say the least, and a military draft is an absolutely disgusting concept - I could never support a country that had an active one in place. |
Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: August 18 2016 at 11:00
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I don't know, honestly. I don't even really know my own stance on war for certain, much less the specific ones for which I'd be drafted. ------------- https://dreamwindow.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My Music 
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 18 2016 at 11:01
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One of the options that was available to conscientious objectors was exemption only from combatant duties, which included many (many) roles within the armed services such as stores and materiel movements, pay-role, airfield ground-crew and medics, and of course bomb disposal (over 400 Brit conscientious objectors volunteered for bomb disposal during WW2 and no one would question their bravery or call them cowards). Given that the armed services are renowned for forcing square pegs into round holes I suspect that despite having been trained as an apprentice in all aspects of aircraft and airfield electronics since I left school at 16, if I were to be conscripted then airfield ground-crew would be the last place they'd actually put me.
------------- What? |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: August 18 2016 at 11:29
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I wouldn't fight for France, Paris can burn. I just hope the invaders would wait for the Egyptians, the Greeks, the Italians, etc... to get their ancient artworks given bak before bombing the Louvre. |
Posted By: AZF
Date Posted: August 18 2016 at 11:35
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Other. Voted "No" because as far as I can see the governments* are still blackmailed over paedophilia. I'd fight a war to get rid of the Monarchy and bring over half the government to trial, but that's about it. Oh and remember the Serbian conflict yours and our troops were involved in? You must be so pleased to see Slobodan Milosevic being found innocent (after dying in prison). The amount of money, resources and it wasn't as big as Iraq or Afghanistan! If Milosevic is found innocent, you are aware one of these days (Probably a few decades or even a Century away) Osama will be absolved of involvement with 9/11? How inconvenient would that be? I used to say I support the people but not the institutions of this country. But these days, I don't even support them! So I'll take imprisonment over conscription, and luckily my beard will make my incarcerated conversion to "Islam" that much easier on my arse! *= All over the world! |
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: August 18 2016 at 11:42
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In the 2010's and take a bullet in the back from my brothers in arms, no thanks. Normandie in June 1944 par contre...you bet! ------------- |
Posted By: aglasshouse
Date Posted: August 18 2016 at 11:55
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Pacifistic loser. ------------- http://fryingpanmedia.com |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: August 18 2016 at 21:57
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Overseas. No. If there were an invasion of the US then yes, I would defend my country. I suspect at my size and speed I would make pretty easy target practice for any invaders but I would do what I could. Sadly the best they would get out of me is a paper pusher who would be discharged with a nasty paper cut. I wouldn't be much good as a Red Dawn type. ------------- 
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 18 2016 at 23:29
 American's seem pretty good at killing each other without anyone needing to invade them, if we wait a few years we'll be able to walk in and take the colonies back without firing a single shot.------------- What? |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: August 19 2016 at 03:53
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: August 19 2016 at 04:03
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I have a lot of trouble with the poll question "No, I'm a coward", as if pacifism is only for the skittish. I make no claims of bravery, but many, many years ago, in a flash of a moment without even thinking, I jumped in on a group of older teenagers who 'ganged up' on one frightened homeless street kid. I drove them off by swinging a crutch as I had just injured my ankle a few days earlier. A few years later, I adopted the street youth and he remains a loyal son.There are many stories like this from so called cowards. It's not a matter of fear to resist fighting, but principle. America has involved itself with few just wars since WWII, and that will always play a significant roll in the "will you fight for your country" question for Americans. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: August 19 2016 at 04:25
My country slaves me for all I'm worth, I pay taxes, I am part of the 'workforce' and I get peanuts for all the stress and strain - why would I stake my life on the line for a pack of a-holes ?? They couldn't give two sh*ts about me..........  (my 2-bobs worth) |
Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: August 19 2016 at 06:53
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The only way to fight for my country, at this point, would be to fight against its government -------------  Time always wins. |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: August 19 2016 at 10:07
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Good poll, good question & not an easy one... However I'd like to say "yes, I'd sign up to defend my country in the case of a direct threat to the UK", my probable reaction, given my  Luckily, being an arthritic 53 year old, the situation is unlikely to occur, unless of course:  ------------- 
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: August 19 2016 at 11:16
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: August 19 2016 at 11:44
well, as an arthritic 53 year old, that rules out the Stupid Boy for you, Jim. Who would you be?------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: August 19 2016 at 12:24
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I can't even enlist because I'm on antidepressants, so I don't have much to worry about. |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: August 22 2016 at 02:58
However much I'd like to reply Sgt Wilson, I'm more like Pte Godfrey (at least I'm a trained first-aider) -------------
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: August 22 2016 at 11:53
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I served 12 years in the U.S. Marine Corps so although I never served in combat I guess I have to say 'yes' and ignore the modifiers added to that poll option. That said I understand and respect anyone who chooses not to serve or who finds moral, religious or other objecion, as long as they afford the same respect of choice for those who did or do serve. ------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging." Albert Camus |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: August 22 2016 at 12:21
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I never served a day of my life in the military...damn straight I would fight for my country. -------------   
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: August 22 2016 at 18:44
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I'd fight. I'd make more money than I would breaking up fights. |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: August 22 2016 at 19:22
Still in education, eh Rob? God bless you man for your efforts. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: August 23 2016 at 04:09
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: August 23 2016 at 04:53
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Posted By: mechanicalflattery
Date Posted: August 23 2016 at 07:25
| There'd have to be a really good reason. Short of militants actively storming the country, there's not much I'd be willing to pick up a gun for. |
Posted By: AZF
Date Posted: August 24 2016 at 06:38
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One scenario: "Them maniacs have shot up my major city! Well I'm going to sign up and fight them!" *Signs up "Hey wait! Why are you sending me to the Russian border? I want to fight the maniacs!" "Ours is not to question why..." Careful what you wish for! 
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: August 26 2016 at 00:51
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No. While I am a coward, totally sincere, and would say I'm generally a pacifist, I went with other...because I have problems with strong nationalism. It's funny since I'm somewhat an "economic nationalist" but really I'm not very nationalist in the "America f**k yeah!" style It's....where I was born That simple and I had no say in the matter, so I wouldnt risk my life and more so take other lives for simply being born here. Also ya know, stuff like how (sorry if this is controversial, I dont think it'll be here) fighting for the country in reality is being shipped off to kill others. Sadly, the people who die often do so not really protecting our freedom or lives, I feel. Anyway, in a legitimate situation, let's say WWII, I am still not very sure I would volunteer to do it, and let's say we were invaded...a foreign force has landed here and is actively taking over my home town...a truly sincere "defending myself and my people" situation, I am still not sure I would fight. That is the situation though I could ever imagine myself possibly doing it, an honest to god invasion of our country and need to defend those I love. Note: This is more about those I personally love and am close to. Not so much "my country" Though if possible to hunker down and defend, or better yet flee....I'd take it. Like I said, I fully admit I am a coward  |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 26 2016 at 02:54
America has been involved in 94 wars since it became a nation but only one of them involved foreign forces actually 'invading' (though technically those 'invaders' were former landlords stepping in to stop America invading its neighbour in the North) because basically from an invasion perspective America is an island, (albeit an effing big one), with 5000 miles of water on either side that makes it quite hard to attack as long as they keep their nextdoor neighbours sweet. America learnt one thing from that 1814/15 invasion: to defend a big island you need big ships, which is why the US Navy has big ships (well, they also learnt that rockets have a red glare but the significance of that didn't occur to them until 150 years later). The much later attack on Pearl Harbour (which wasn't a 'boots on the ground' invasion) gave two more big ship lessons - if foreigners also have big ships America needs even bigger ships and it would be really good if foreigners don't have big ships at all. All of which means that a military invasion of the American mainland by foreigners is highly unlikely. The biggest threat America faces is itself and at present y'all seem quite content to do nothing about that because of a piece of paper written over 200 years ago. ------------- What? |
Posted By: EddieRUKiddingVarese
Date Posted: October 03 2016 at 01:50
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No, I'm a coward and would plead insanity.............. ------------- "Everyone is born with genius, but most people only keep it a few minutes" and I need the knits, the double knits! |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 03 2016 at 02:00
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With full globalization not too far in the future, the question will be more like 'would you fight for the world against those of its own making--?' ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: HemispheresOfXanadu
Date Posted: October 03 2016 at 15:19
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I'm kinda scrawny, short, have bad eyes and don't take well to being told what to do and not question it. Also a firm believer in keeping my and other peoples' insides inside. EDIT: That does not coumt medical experts who are trained in taking people apart and putting them back together again. ------------- https://twitter.com/ProgFollower" rel="nofollow - @ProgFollower on Twitter. Tweet me muzak. |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: October 03 2016 at 15:34
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also various erotic prolapses |
Posted By: Kingsnake
Date Posted: October 04 2016 at 00:48
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No, I hate borders. I work for the central bureau for refugees. And I love my job, but would rather that my job was not necessary. |
Posted By: EddieRUKiddingVarese
Date Posted: October 04 2016 at 01:31
Peace and love Man no wars dude ------------- "Everyone is born with genius, but most people only keep it a few minutes" and I need the knits, the double knits! |
Posted By: Quinino
Date Posted: October 04 2016 at 05:31
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The concept of borders and nationality is completely strange to me, I identify with Culture and Thinking not with a flag and a hymn (sounds much presumptious but it's as sincere as I can be). Anyway, if my country were involved in a good cause (or against a bad one) I don't know as I would respond. I guess one can't really anticipate how will react in a limit situation, can we? |
Posted By: Davesax1965
Date Posted: October 04 2016 at 05:54
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Well, what does my country do for me ? I'm in the UK. We have a collapsing national health system, stagnant wages, not many workers' right as compared to Europe, Victorian sewage systems, permanently late and overpriced trains, a collapsing infrastructure, rip off shop prices, the lowest pensions of any major European nation, rampant house inflation, and oh yes, we're the richest of the G7 Nations. Have your gun back. ;-) ------------- |
Posted By: EddieRUKiddingVarese
Date Posted: October 10 2016 at 15:51
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Do you think it'd be ok to instead of Fighting just do F**king for your country........ both start with F? You could be Captain F**k! ------------- "Everyone is born with genius, but most people only keep it a few minutes" and I need the knits, the double knits! |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: October 10 2016 at 15:59
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I wouldn't grab them by the pussy for my country
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Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: October 10 2016 at 16:34
------------- A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now) |
Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: October 10 2016 at 17:18
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There was a time when I would (and did) but not now. I will defend myself and my family regardless of who or what the threat is. |