I couldn't get into Big Big Train..(Opinion Piece)
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=107160
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Topic: I couldn't get into Big Big Train..(Opinion Piece)
Posted By: souio
Subject: I couldn't get into Big Big Train..(Opinion Piece)
Date Posted: July 02 2016 at 14:02
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..at first. Genesis was likely my gateway drug into prog, and so since these guys apparently had a similar style, I thought, "why not?". So I decided to listen to The Underfall Yard's title track as I was in the mood for a good prog epic. Only problem was, it didn't feel like it was a band trying to make their own music, I found it was a band trying to make prog for the sake of being prog. A lot of the jams felt like mindless noodling and the sections of the song didn't have much of a flow to them, I found. I also found that there weren't very many memorable melodies, either. I tried a couple of other songs from the same album (since that was the album where they apparently 'got good') and found the same thing. Odd time signatures placed just for the sake of being there, trying too hard to imitate the 70s, etc. Then I read reviews for English Electric Part 1 and it mentioned how Uncle Jack was a bit different, so I decided to listen to it. It was actually a really decent and fairly unique song even with the inspiration present! In fact, it was stuck in my head all day two days after listening to it! I listened to it again the other day, then once it was over I forgot to choose another song and it automatically played Wassail from their EP and I really, really enjoyed that as well! Finally I decided to digitally buy the Wassail EP and realized something about these guys.. to me, when they try to be Genesis or symphonic, their textures are nice, but they can be pretty bland. ..But I think they just might be one of the best Prog-Folk bands I've ever heard. If they stuck to more folk-style, they might be one of my favourite bands (Granted, I haven't heard English Electric part 2 or Folklore yet, so who knows what I can expect!) |
Replies:
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: July 02 2016 at 22:01
| I barely know the band, but indeed the reviews for English Electric were so good that I had to buy the combo "English Electric, Full Power" (parts 1 and 2, plus a few new songs that were later released as an EP, which is not Wassail). However, I really loved this English Electric thing, with many memorable melodies that I loved... and one of the things that I thought was actually the opposite to what you thought from "The Underfall Yard" (which I actually haven't heard, so I don't know if I'll agree with you on that)... but on EE I felt that they used the prog elements in a very organic way, and they were used to suit the songs, without unnecesary prog elements and signature changes just to make it prog. Very nice and beautiful, I guess you should try it out and see if you agree with me. |
Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: July 03 2016 at 01:53
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I've listened to their last 4 albums or so, but not only could I not get into them, a lot of the music just really annoyed me. Too wimpy or something. But I *love* the track Master James of St. George. I never tire of that song, it's pure magic. It's the kind of song that should get regular airplay, - and would, if we were still in the 70s-80s.
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Posted By: Disparate Times
Date Posted: July 03 2016 at 02:27
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Gathering speed is my favorite from them, still it's just ok. ------------- Songs are like tightly budgeted meals Nobodies doing anything new or even real |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: July 03 2016 at 03:09
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To be the best prog folk band, they'd have to get past Strawbs, Horslips and Gryphon (and Tull for a very short period of their long career), but they are exceptional. I like all their stuff, but their more folk based songs like Wassail are truly exceptional. I also like their more commercial catchy stuff like Make Some Noise. They do it so well. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: July 03 2016 at 16:44
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I got into BBT with 2008's The Difference Machine--which I immediately and continue to absolutely adore--it remains my favorite BBT album. (Then vocalist Sean Filkins is not as bombastic as current vocalist.) Then went back into their catalog and purchased Gathering Speed (cool concept, two great songs) and "Reaching for John Dowland" from English Boy Wonders is absolutely stunning. Then Underfall Yard came out. Amazing sound production and compositional skill. The vocal arrangements of newcomer David Longdon are stunning--to this day. I just found myself having trouble connecting with the subject matter: How is it that these little-known English 'heroes' can possibly generate the kind of emotion Dave & Co were displaying in the songs--especially in the singing?? The next albums--which I continue to buy and attend to--have maintained a pretty high standard of sound and compositional display but, again, they sometimes leave me cold--feeling left out of the emotion that these guys (purport) to feel toward their chosen subject matter. Perhaps being English would help more. Still, I rate English Electric, Part I as my 'Best Album of the Year 2012'--and "Winchester from St. Giles' Hill" as my favorite song of that year. Their artwork is amazing. I wish they would do more videos to help people to connect to their songs. ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: Progmind
Date Posted: July 03 2016 at 17:34
Agree with BrufordFreak in everything!!, I prefer Big Big Train with Sean Filkins as vocalist, my fav album it´s The Different Machine followed by Gathering Speed |
BrufordFreak wrote:Posted By: POTA
Date Posted: July 04 2016 at 14:45
Sean is truly a very good vocalist. More power and better range than Longdon while having a similar sound. Gathering Speed is one of my favorite albums from any artist period. I think the band's textures and arrangements are finer in the Longdon era, with more memorable tracks. The Wide Open Sea is arguably my favorite song of all time. Then tracks like Kingmaker, Summoned by Bells, East Coast Racer, The Underfall Yard, and Judas Unrepentant are wonderful. Regarding OP's post, I have never gotten then sense of them creating prog for the sake of prog at all. And I also have never considered them a Genesis copycat or Genesis "evolved" as I've heard many say. I think people say that mostly because of the vocal similarities. |
Posted By: infocat
Date Posted: July 04 2016 at 15:31
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I don't have any BBT with Filkins, but I have Filkins highly rated solo album from a few years back. I honestly figured he was an instrumentalist trying his hand at vocals, because I found his vocals to be truly weak..... ------------- -- Frank Swarbrick Belief is not Truth. |
Posted By: javajeff
Date Posted: July 04 2016 at 15:31
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Sean Filkins is an excellent vocalist, and his BBT albums and solo work is outstanding. However, I think that David Longdon has emerged as the face of BBT, and he brings a level of emotion that is unsurpassed. I think the new albums are just stellar, and they are making outstanding music. I would call their music very mature, intelligent, and sophisticated. I think they are more organic of a band that rely on subtleties with excellent song writing and compositions. Big Big Train has become a favorite of mine, and I hope they keep this momentum going. |
Posted By: POTA
Date Posted: July 04 2016 at 15:46
I have two words for you: Powder Monkey |
Posted By: Duke of Rother
Date Posted: July 15 2016 at 14:00
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The vocals pre Filkins are a real shame - nice playing but I find them pretty hard to listen to. Filkins is ok and he has grown on me a fair bit but Longdon's a real star with a great range and tone. His contribution to the song-writing has been enormous too. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 16 2016 at 07:43
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For me Big Big Train is what Genesis could have been if they hadn't dedicated to making commercial music. If you don't like them there are plenty of other prog artists out there making great music. Move in and don't dwell on it. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 16 2016 at 08:51
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 16 2016 at 08:57
model trains rule.. Just think over what today's video game generation is missing out on...------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: essexboyinwales
Date Posted: July 18 2016 at 04:17
English Electric Full Power is undeniably one of the best albums that I own  Some of the songs are just beautiful: Swan Hunter, Edgelands - Summoned By Bells - Upton Heath, Curator Of Butterflies being my favourites.I know it's kind of a compilation, but it doesn't feel like that to me, as I didn't get the two separate EE albums, just waited for the double album. Previous to that, I had The Underfall Yard and although I liked it, it didn't make me rush out to buy anything else, including EE1 and EE2 (obviously!) Now I really must get Folklore.... |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: July 18 2016 at 04:25
| For those that 'can't get into' BBT, I feel sorry for you. Has your soul been sold to the Devil ?? |
Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: July 18 2016 at 04:36
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I think you'll find, Tom, that for everyone who enjoys BBT for their vintage flavours, lush qualities and pleasing harmonies, someone else might find them bland and wishy-washy and too comfy like an old rug to cuddle up in. Not my personal opinion, mind you, but I could completely understand if someone were to find their music just those things. |
Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: July 18 2016 at 04:56
| I heard the Underfall Yard and both English Electric a few times and it's entertaining for a while but I always get bored after 20 minutes or so. There are so many bands out there that I find much more interesting, I don't even worry about that. |
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: July 18 2016 at 04:59
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Essential one afaic ------------- |
Posted By: Rosscoe
Date Posted: July 18 2016 at 05:29
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I bought English Electric Full Power on a whim, because Amazon thought I would like it (and the reviews were very good!) and I was blown away - eventually. I knew right away I liked it, but it took a number of listens before I realised how much I loved it. If you asked me right now I would rate it as my favourite album of all time. Consequently, I have obtained the Underfall Yard, Wassail and pre-ordered Folklore (I have never pre-ordered an album in my life before). The Underfall Yard is my least favourite LIke some others, I find the title track a bit long and disconnected, but perhaps I juast don't know it well enough. I haven't got round to listening to anything pre-Longdon, since his voice is one of the things I really like. Would be happy to hear everything they've done, but have to prioritise the £££. I think they are a wonderful band, but I can see how they are too 'nice' for some people. But some bands are best enjoyed a song at a time amidst a shuffle and others through a whole album. For me, a BBT album is sublime, but there are other acts I enjoy but become a bit much after 30 minutes. Maybe for some, the best way to enjoy BBT is to take it in bits. But I do believe that most prog fans should give them a try at some point.
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Posted By: zachfive
Date Posted: July 22 2016 at 01:57
This sums up my experience with the band. Musically I enjoy them very much. I just feel the vocals are sung in this style where each word is sung with this kind of prolonged grandeur that becomes very wearisome and leaves little room for vocal melody. |
Posted By: Duke of Rother
Date Posted: July 22 2016 at 23:57
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Interesting comment zachfive. I have often said myself that David Longdon improved them hugely because of the vocal melodies he introduced to the songs. Pre Longdon the music was very good but the vocals almost seemed unrelated to what else was going on. Filkins was ok, but before him the vocals were at times, bloody horrible. |
Posted By: Cambus741
Date Posted: July 23 2016 at 06:17
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I have never managed to get into them either |
Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: July 23 2016 at 08:51
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I have listened to some of their stuff but ultimately I find them too backward-looking. It's the kind of music that delights me with its high quality when I come across it in random places of which I wouldn't expect really good music. I can listen to them very well and appreciate them, but I don't find the kind of spark of fresh originality (or the kind of magic that some music has that speaks to me personally) in their music that I need to really get interested. |
Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 08:25
| I have enjoyed Big Big Train's music since I first encountered them with The Underfall Yard but nothing really clicked ---- until Folklore came out. I'm hooked!!! My favorite record of 2016 (so far.) |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 09:42
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They remind me of The Watch and Citizen Cain ie Genesis...but a tad too much for me to be comfortable. To these ears they are straddling the fence of plagiarism. Great musicians though but I'd much rather spin any Genesis album from the 70s before I turn to BBT. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Duke of Rother
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 10:00
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Straddling the fence of plagiarism? Words fail me. |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 10:09
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Sorry I don't mean to be...yeah well mean. I just find the constant back n forth between Gabriel/Collins vocals, the duetting rhythm guitars and mellotron as well as the carbon copy Hackett leads all lead back to Genesis. I have yet to come across a tune of theirs that didn't sound like Genesis. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: POTA
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 11:43
| Besides the vocals, there are very few songs that sound like Genesis to me. I really don't get the comparison. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 21:09
| Having in mind English Electris (full power), which is the only one I know (I'm just waiting for Folklore to arrive) I don't really find the vocals so similar to Genesis... it's rather the pastoral feel of the music and the instrumental sections... even if they have more instruments to build up. Of course, there's just about none of the theatric and goofy aspects Genesis was fond to add to their albums. Actually, I find that Big Big Train (or at least EE) remind me of Genesis much more than, for example, Marillion (of whom I really find little similarity except for the vocals... and well, the fact that they are prog too). |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 25 2016 at 22:57
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I've enjoyed them since Underfall Yard and almost raided their back catalog and now have everything since that I know of. Sorry if that wasn't an opinion piece. I have found that getting into an artist sometimes just boils down to the right thing coming across your ears and mind at the right time. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: July 26 2016 at 03:32
| They do recall 'classic' Genesis, but do not really sons like them. Only in influence. Greg Spawton is a true, modern-day, Prog music composer. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: July 26 2016 at 03:33
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 26 2016 at 04:25
OtT, but I've never liked their name. Big Bad Train would have been better! 
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Posted By: geekfreak
Date Posted: August 11 2016 at 22:31
good point...hmmm not a big fan but what I have heard I love... ------------- Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake." Music Is Live Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed. Keep Calm And Listen To The Music… < |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: August 12 2016 at 06:09
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Hi, Just got "English Electric Part 2" and it is very enjoyable. Comparing this to Genesis is unfair, as we're talking some 40 years in between and a completely different place and time, and BBT is not Genesis, any more than Genesis was BBT. I kinda think that the work by BBT fits more into an area like "symphonic", as the pieces are well organized within a musical context that fits things like the Moody Blues used to do, in my weird book of ideas. And their material is very well defined and you could say that this is a mature band, and not a beginner's attempt at creating something. It might not be the top 5 ... but it is very nice stuff that deserves to be in a collection of very good music. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: August 12 2016 at 06:21
This is so strange, specially coming in a progressive forum ... so all music has to be about melody now? And progressive music, in its original forms, was more about experimenting and creating new feelings and musics, and not necessarily "melody", when at the time, a lot of things that did not exactly follow the "melody" line, was considered "anti-music". I'm missing something! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: August 12 2016 at 08:49
Indeed. They didn't mention anything close to what you're saying. You're basically putting words in other people's mouths (again). Maybe we need to draw you a picture or give you a little taste of your own medicine? Yes? Here's a bit you yourself wrote to a member who'd just started a thread about Can: 'You know what this feels like? The blog on the Krautrock space, for me ... people looking for long trips, but none of them are good enough or satisfactory. In some cases, for me, they have no soul behind them ... it feels like a DAW with some notes only!' So what you're saying is that all new music made in the Krautrock vein can't be good? They only use DAWs and have lost the connection with the real trip and should preferably refrain from making music in the future. (Yes I am putting words in your mouth and I hope they taste horrible) Oh no I almost forgot! You hate it when folks write negatively about music and you also hope that we can give the new guys on the block a fair shot....erm....but only when it benefits your own agenda it seems. OTHER members/people should stop talking negatively about music altogether whilst you are free to do the exact same? Gotcha! It all makes sense now. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: August 13 2016 at 01:37
I did not specify that one could NOT create a piece of music on a DAW. It was more a comment about notes being added/subtracted to make a piece of music, that supposedly has the feeling that ... some of the original stuff did. The idea, is, which I think you missed, that a lot of the "krautrock" stuff was not "composed" ... it was just done, mostly free form, and most often .. LIVE. You know what is weird? Seeing things being added to my words that were not there at all, and making it look like it was a negative, when it wasn't. A lot of music came out of the "anti-music", or the equivalent forms in "anti-film", or "anti-literature" ... in that era. I didn't invent any of it, but I happen to enjoy it.
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: August 13 2016 at 02:12
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Thank you for underlining my point. Now whilst you seem perfectly ok with other people putting words in your mouth, we're still quite a few in this world who feel that it is a thing best left to politicians and other such buffoons. I for one would very much like it if you stopped it altogether on PA. I recall other members mentioning this to you time and again. Now let's get back on track shall we. I listened to Folklore last night and rather enjoyed it (and yes I still hear Genesis oozing through my speakers). The drums in particular were a treat. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: timothy leary
Date Posted: August 13 2016 at 08:49
| So few albums these days which I want to hear the whole album and Big Big did not make any of them. |