One of the reasons why I supported Queens inclusion on this site was their lyrical content, which I think is absolutely superb. A lot of their lyrics have "prog rock" written all over them. Here are just a few examples of songs which I feel show their inclination for fantasy and prog adventurism.

1. My Fairy King Words and music by Freddie Mercury In the land where horses born with eagle wings And honey bees have lost their stingsThere's singing forever Lions den with fallow deerAnd rivers made from wines so clear Flow on and on foreverDragons fly like sparrows thru' the air And baby lambs where Samson daresTo go on on on on on on My fairy king can see thingsHe rules the air and turns the tides That are not there for you and meOoh yeah he guides the winds My fairy king can do right and nothing wrongThen came man to savage in the night To run like thieves and to kill like knives To take away the power from the magic hand To bring about the ruin of the promised landThey turn the milk into sour Like the blue in the blood of my veinsWhy can't you see it Fire burnin' in hell with the cry of screaming rain Son of heaven set me free and let me goSea turn dry no salt from sand Seasons fly no helping handTeeth don't shine like pearls for poor man's eyes Someone someone just drained the colour from my wingsBroken my fairy circle ring And shamed the king in all his prideChanged the wings and wronged the tides Mother mercury mercuryLook what they've done to me I cannot run I cannot hide

1. The Fairy Feller's Master-Stroke Words and music by Freddie MercuryHe's a fairy feller Ah ah the fairy folk have gatheredRound the new moon's shine To see the feller crack a nutAt night's noon timeTo swing his axe he swears As he climbs he daresTo deliver the master stroke Ploughman wagoner will' and typesPolitician with senatorial pipe He's a dilly dally ohPedagogue squinting wears a frown And a satyr peers under lady's gownHe's a dirty fellowWhat a dirty laddie-oh Tatterdemalion and the junketerThere's a thief and a dragonfly trumpeter He's my hero ahFairy dandy tickling the fancyOf his lady friend The nymph in yellow (can we see the master stroke)What a quaere fellow Ah ah ah ah ah ahAh ah ah ah ah ahSoldier sailor tinker tailor ploughboy Waiting to hear the soundAnd the arch magician presidesHe is the leader Oberon and Titania watched by a harridan Mab is the queen and there's a good apothecary manCome to say hello Fairy dandy tickling the fancyOf his lady friendThe nymph in yellow What a quaere fellowThe ostler stares with hands on his knees Come on mister fellerCrack it open of you please

1. March Of The Black Queen Words and music by Freddie Mercury Do you mean it do you mean it do you mean it Why don't you mean it why do I follow youAnd where do you go? Ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ahYou've never seen nothing like it No never in your lifeLike going up to heavenAnd then coming back alive Let me tell you all about itOooh give me a little time to choose Water babies singing in a lily pool delight Blue powder monkeys praying in the dead of night Here comes the Black Queen poking in the pile Fi fo the Black Queen marching single file Take this take that bring them down to sizeMarch to the Black Queen Put them in the cellar with the naughty boys Little nigger sugar then a rub-a-dub-a-baby oil Black on black on every finger nail and toeWe've only begun - begun Make this make that keep making all that noiseOoh march to the Black Queen Now I've got a belly fullYou can be my sugar babyYou can be my honey chile A voice from behind me reminds meSpread out your wings you are an angel Remember to deliver with the speed of lightA little bit of love and joy Everything you do bears a willAnd a why and a wherefore A little bit of love and joyIn each and every soul lies a man And very soon he'll deceive and discoverBut even to the end of his life He'll bring a little loveAh ah ah ah ah I reign with my left hand I rule with my right I'm lord of all darkness I'm queen of the nightI've got the power now to do The march of the Black QueenMy life is in your hands I'll fo and I'll fie I'll be what you make me I'll do what you like I'll be a bad boy I'll be your bad boyI'll do the march of the Black Queen Ah ah ah ah ahWalking true to style she's vulgar abuse and vile The Black Queen tattoos all her piesShe boils and she bakes And she never dots her I'sLa la la la la la la la la la la laLa la la la la Forget your sing a-longs and your lullabies Surrender to the city of the firefliesDance to the devil in beat with the band To hell with all of you hand in handBut now it's time to be gone La la la la forever foreverAh ah ah ah ah

1. Killer Queen Words and music by Freddie Mercury She keeps Moet et Chandon in her pretty cabinet'Let them eat cake' she says Just like Marie AntoinetteA built in remedy for Khrushchev and Kennedy And anytime an invitation you can decline Caviar and cigarettes well versed in etiquetteExtr'ordinarily nice She's a killer queen gunpowder gelatineDynamite with a lazer beam Guaranteed to blow your mindRecommended at the price Insatiable an appetite wanna try?To avoid complications She never kept the same addressIn conversation she spoke just like a baroness Met a man from China went down to Geisha Minah Then again incidentally if you're that way inclined (she's a killer queen) Perfume came naturally from Paris (naturally)For cars she couldn't care less Fastidious and preciseShe's a killer queen gunpowder gelatine Dynamite with a lazer beamGuaranteed to blow your mindRecommended at the price Insatiable an appetite wanna try? Drop of a hat she's as willing as a playful as a pussy cat Then momentarily out of actionTemporarily out of gas To absolutely drive you wild - wildShe's out to get you She's a killer queen gunpowder gelatineDynamite with a lazer beam Guaranteed to blow your mindRecommended at the price Insatiable an appetite wanna try?Wanna try

1. You Take My Breath Away Words and music by Freddie Mercury Oooh oooh take it take it all awayOooh ooh take my breath away Oooh ooh yoooo take my breath away Look into my eyes and you'll see I'm the only one You've captured my love stolen my heartChanged my life Every time you make a move you destroy my mindAnd the way you touch I lose control and shiver deep insideYou take my breath away You can reduce me to tears with a single sighEv'ry breath that you take Any sound that you make is a whisper in my ear I could give up all my life for just one kiss I would surely die if you dismiss me from your loveYou take my breath away So please don't goDon't leave me here all by myself I get ever so lonely from time to timeI will find you anywhere you go I'll be right behind youRight until the ends of the earth I'll get no sleep until I find youTo tell you that you just take my breath away I will find you anywhere you goRight until the ends of the earth I'll get no sleep until I find youTo tell you when I've found youI love you Take my breath take my breath ... away

1. The Prophet's Song Words and music by Brian MayOh oh people of the earth Listen to the warning the seer he saidBeware the storm that gathers here Listen to the wise manI dreamed I saw on a moonlit stair Spreading his hand to the multitude thereA man who cried for a love gone stale And ice cold hearts of charity bareI watched as fear took the old man's gaze Hopes of the young in troubled graves'I see no day' I heard him say So grey is the face of every mortalOh oh people of the earth! 'Listen to the warning' the prophet he saidFor soon the cold of night will fall Summoned by your own handAh ah children of the land Quicken to the new life take my handFly and find the new green bough Return like the white doveHe told of death as a bone white haze Taking the lost and the unloved babesLate too late all the wretches run These kings of beasts now counting their days From mother's love is the son estrangedMarried his own his precious gain The earth will shake in two will breakAnd death all round will be your dowry Oh oh people of the earthListen to the warning the seer he said For those who hear and mark my wordsListen to the good plan Oh oh oh oh and two by two my human zooThey'll be running for to come Running for to come out of the rainOh flee for your lives who heed me not Let all your treasures make you fear for your life Deceive you not the fires of hell will take youShould death await you Ah people can you hear me?And now I know and now I know And now I know and now I knowThat you can hear meAnd now I know and now I know And now I know now I knowNow I know now I knowNow I know now I knowNow I know The earth will shake in two will breakDeath all around around around around Around around around aroundNow I know now I knowNow I know now I know Now I know now I knowNow I know now I knowNow I know now I knowNow I know Wo wo wo wo wo wo wo wo wo Listen to the wise listen to the wise listen to the wise Listen to the wise listen to the wise manLa laLa la la la la laLa la la la la la La la la la la laLa la la la la laLa la la la la laLa la la la la laLa laLa la La laCome here I hear youCome here I hear youCome here I hear youAh ah ah ah ah Listen to the man listen to the man listen to the man listen to the mad man God gave you grace to purge this placeAnd peace all around may be your fortune Oh oh children of the landLove is still the answer take my hand The vision fades a voice I hearListen to the madman! But still I fear and still I dare notLaugh at the madman!

1. Seaside Rendezvous Words and music by Freddie Mercury Seaside whenever you stroll along with me I'm merely contemplating what you feel inside Meanwhile I ask you to be my Clementine You say you will if you could but you can'tI love you madly Let my imagination run away with you gladlyA brand new angle highly commendable Seaside rendezvousI feel so romantic can we do it again? Can we do it again sometime I'd like that Fantastic c'est la vie mesdames et messieursAnd at the peak of the season The MediterraneanThis time of year it's so fashionable I feel like dancing in the rainCan I have a volunteer?Just keep right on dancing What a damn jolly good ideaIt's such a jollification as a matter of fact So 'tres charmant' my dearUnderneath the moonlight Together we'll sail across the seaReminiscing every night Meantime I ask you to be my Valentine You say you'd have to tell your daddy if you canI'll be your Valentino We'll ride upon an omnibus and then the casino Get a new facial start a sensationalSeaside rendezvous so adorable Seaside rendezvous oohSeaside rendezvousGive us a kiss!

1. Lazing On A Sunday Afternoon Words and music by Freddie Mercury I go out to work on Monday morningTuesday I go off to honeymoon I'll be back again before it's time for sunnydown I'll be lazing on a Sunday afternoonBicycling on every Wednesday evening Thursday I go waltzing to the ZooI come from London townI'm just an ordinary guy Fridays I go painting in the LouvreI'm bound to be proposing on a Saturday night There he goes againI'll be lazing on a Sunday lazing on a Sunday Lazing on a Sunday afternoon

I agree, Proglover, that Queen have some great fantasy lyrics ... although before someone jumps in I should probably say that that's not the only reason I thought they deserve a mention on PA

But while My Fairy King, Prophet's Song and March Of The Black Queen are definitely among Queen's more fantasy-based lyrics (and best prog songs, too) ... I wouldn't have included You Take My Breath Away myself, nor perhaps those two "music hall" songs Seaside Rendezvous and Lazin' On A Sunday Afternoon ... Ogre Battle and Seven Seas Of Rhye are some others I might have added ...

Trotsky wrote: I agree, Proglover, that Queen have some great fantasy lyrics ... although before someone jumps in I should probably say that that's not the only reason I thought they deserve a mention on PA But while My Fairy King, Prophet's Song and March Of The Black Queen are definitely among Queen's more fantasy-based lyrics (and best prog songs, too) ... I wouldn't have included You Take My Breath Away myself, nor perhaps those two "music hall" songs Seaside Rendezvous and Lazin' On A Sunday Afternoon ... Ogre Battle and Seven Seas Of Rhye are some others I might have added ...

Yes, you are very right sir!! I guess I added those songs because I thought they were very cleverly written, although not based in fantasy.

You Take My Breath Away, is such a vocal driven tune, filled with beautiful vocal harmonies, that it just screams prog and intelligent composition. Yet there is something very different about this song. Yes we have all heard love songs before, but there is such desperation, and a complete sacrifice of self that is not found in other love songs. Mercury captures this beautifully.

I have read reviews by some members on this site who maintain, that the music hall inspired songs are more pop. I COULD NOT DISAGREE MORE!!!!!! Vaudeville is NOT POP. The way I see it, songs such as Lazin' On A Sunday Afternoon, Seaside Rendezvous and even Good Old-Fashioned Lover Boy are progressive and indeed prog. All three songs show the craftmanship of Mercury's writing. The thing I like about Queen, is that whatever they do, they approach it intelligently.

But yes you are right...Ogre Battle and Seven Seas of Rhye are indeed perfect examples of Queen's inclination for fantasy.

you're all kidding, right?

italprogfan wrote: you're all kidding, right?

Hey new rule established by ME.....keep negativity outta MY threads....thanks!!

Bicycle bicycle bicycle
I want to ride my bicycle bicycle bicycle
I want to ride my bicycle
I want to ride my bike
I want to ride my bicycle
I want to ride it where I like

You say black I say white
You say bark I say bite
You say shark I say hey man
Jaws was never my scene
And I don't like Star Wars
You say Rolls I say Royce
You say God give me a choice
You say Lord I say Christ
I don't believe in Peter Pan
Frankenstein or Superman
All I wanna do is

Bicycle bicycle bicycle
I want to ride my bicycle bicycle bicycle
I want to ride my bicycle
I want to ride my bike
I want to ride my bicycle
I want to ride my
Bicycle races are coming your way
So forget all your duties oh yeah!
Fat bottomed girls they'll be riding today
So look out for those beauties oh yeah
On your marks get set go
Bicycle race bicycle race bicycle race
Bicycle bicycle bicyI want to ride my bicycle
Bicycle bicycle bicycle
Bicycle race

You say coke I say caine
You say John I say Wayne
Hot dog I say cool it man
I don't wanna be the President of America
You say smile I say cheese
Cartier I say please
Income tax I say Jesus
I don't wanna be a candidate
For Vietnam or Watergate
Cos all I want to do is

Bicycle bicycle bicycle
I want to ride my bicycle bicycle bicycle
I want to ride my bicycle
I want to ride my bike
I want to ride my bicycle
I want to ride it where I like

I have a tricycle myself, so I like to ride my trike

meurglysIII wrote: I like that song

more time-signature and chord changes than in Supper's Ready squeezed in 3 minutes

chopper wrote: I'd agree with you about the early stuff but Lazin' On A Sunday Afternoon and Seaside Rendezvous (which are both good songs) are in no way prog. Yes, they are very well written and the "brass section" is fantastic but that doesn't make them prog IMO. Anyway, I'm bored with discussing Queen now.

HAHAHAHA......Once again I reiterate....those two songs are most certainly prog. I mean what would you call them? You can't call them pop, because Vaudeville is not pop. You could in fact just call them Vaudeville or music hall inspired tunes. But if you are a rock band and, you are clever enough and have the intelligence and the writing ability to compose vaudeville tunes, wouldn't you call that progressive?.....I would!!

I woul add Lilly Of The Valey too :)

but my all time fav is "My fairy king", a jewel!

Proglover:

...And exactly what does a "prog lyric" look like?

The question is rhetorical.  Prog encompasses lyrics of all types - and so does non-prog.  This makes the lyric question vritually meaningless when it comes to determining who is prog and who is not.

Sorry, but I don't buy your entire line of reasoning here...

Peace.

I think that conjouring up an atmosphere of a far away land populated by mythical folk is fairly standard lyrical fare for prog of the 1970s - not every song, but many bands strolled down that hooded and wooded path once or twice. It's a fairly reasonable stereotype - one that both Queen and Spinal Tap fondly ripped the pea soup out of...

Queen eh? Can't live with them, can't live without them

maani wrote: Proglover: ...And exactly what does a "prog lyric" look like? The question is rhetorical.  Prog encompasses lyrics of all types - and so does non-prog.  This makes the lyric question vritually meaningless when it comes to determining who is prog and who is not. Sorry, but I don't buy your entire line of reasoning here... Peace.

OH Good Lord Maani.....DO YOU EVER BUY MY LINE OF REASONING?????????.....I'll answer that, NO!!!!!..........By the way your response does not surprise me in the least. I didn't expect you of all people to TRY to say a positive thing about Queen or my writings....SO MOVING ON!!!!!

The main point here is, the songs are extremely cleverly written. I remember Freddie Mercury saying one thing in regards to how the band approaches their music...he said..."we always try to attack music in a very intelligent way...intelligent music is GOOD music"......I could not have said it better myself. Is that not ONE of the things which seperates prog from ordinary pop/rock music?...Itelligence!!

And yes,......Lyrics are a HUGE part of prog rock, lyrical content has always been important. I would think you would know that.

Oh by the way....are you giving out any more warnings, or was that just for me???

chopper wrote: Proglover wrote: chopper wrote: I'd agree with you about the early stuff but Lazin' On A Sunday Afternoon and Seaside Rendezvous (which are both good songs) are in no way prog. Yes, they are very well written and the "brass section" is fantastic but that doesn't make them prog IMO. Anyway, I'm bored with discussing Queen now. HAHAHAHA......Once again I reiterate....those two songs are most certainly prog. I mean what would you call them? You can't call them pop, because Vaudeville is not pop. You could in fact just call them Vaudeville or music hall inspired tunes. But if you are a rock band and, you are clever enough and have the intelligence and the writing ability to compose vaudeville tunes, wouldn't you call that progressive?.....I would!! "You could in fact just call them Vaudeville or music hall inspired tunes." Yes - that's exactly what I would call them. They are very clever pastiches of music recorded around 50 years in the past (at the time) - how does that make them prog? They may be "progressive" in being intelligent and writing clever songs, but then that would make Abba prog as well.

This is the problem that many people are not seeing. Many of you talk about prog music as a pure genre......IT IS NOT A PURE GENRE!!!!! Prog music is and has always been a hybrid...PERIOD!!.....It draws on already pre-existing forms of music and combines them with rock. There is somewhat of an oxymoron when calling this music progressive. Prog rock is NOT progressive.....but rather "prog" is a title given to a certain type of rock which combines classical, jazz, avant garde, and folk elements to rock......so I ask this question....combining vaudeville to rock is not prog????????????????????????............People lets get serious!!! .....Combining Vaudeville to rock, is just as "progressive" as combining classical to rock, or jazz to rock, or folk to rock, OR ANY OTHER THING TO ROCK....that is really what prog is about. FUSION....mixing genres

And as far as a pastiche is concerned.....ALL OF PROG ROCK IS A PASTICHE!!!! It is not in any way a pure genre...and from a philosophical and theoretical point of view (too heavy to get into right now), I doubt whether progressive rock really exists.

Proglover:

What "warning" are you referring to?  I am completely in the dark here..

Re "lyrics are a huge part of prog rock," tell that to Tangerine Dream, Can, Gong, Soft Machine and dozens of other prog bands who don't even use lyrics.  As for the bands that do, I suppose that lyrics add to the prog quality of the compositions - but they are by no means a truly "critical" element.  Indeed, if you were to take, say, a couple of Genesis albums, a couple of Yes albums, a couple of GG albums, a couple of KC albums et al, and remove the vocal tracks entirely, you would still have brilliant prog music.  Indeed, that is one of the reasons why we all appreciate the instrumental sections of extended prog songs so much: because they focus entirely on the music, and how well it is composed, arranged, played, produced, etc.

Don't get me wrong: I love most prog lyrics, from Gabriel's allegories to John Anderson's mystical writings, from Peter Sinfield's paranoia to Ian Anderson's quasi-Celtic and "rural" ramblings.  But it is simply a gross overstatement to say that lyrics are "a huge part" of prog.  They are one element, and perhaps a "fun" one, but not a "critical" one.

As for "intelligence" somehow setting prog apart from "ordinary" popular music, as true as that may be in many cases, if it were true "across the board" then The Beatles would be the first band added to any prog site, since they probably brought more "intelligence" to popular music - i.e., to a vastly wider audience by sheer dint of their global fame - than any band in history.

You seem to think that my disagreeing with you - or even having a different opinion based on my own knowledge and understanding - is a "personal" thing.  It is not, so please try to refrain from taking it that way.  We are having an...intelligent (hopefully ) discussion/debate.  You need not react as if I had thrown an ashtray at you...

Peace.

Queen never where really progressive in they're lyrics, and as Maani pointed out, that's not important really, it's the underlying music that makes a band progressive.

Snow Dog wrote: I have to say that I entirely agree with Maani's points!

and mine, don'you agree with that (I need a sucking up emoticon)

tuxon wrote: Snow Dog wrote: I have to say that I entirely agree with Maani's points! and mine, don'you agree with that (I need a sucking up emoticon)

About your last point? Yes I agree with you!

Although I don't agree with you that Queen are Prog, but the argument is old now and I'm beginning not to care anymore! I'll never refer to them as prog anyway ( and neither will millions of Queen fans I suspect)

maani wrote: Proglover: What "warning" are you referring to?  I am completely in the dark here.. Re "lyrics are a huge part of prog rock," tell that to Tangerine Dream, Can, Gong, Soft Machine and dozens of other prog bands who don't even use lyrics.  As for the bands that do, I suppose that lyrics add to the prog quality of the compositions - but they are by no means a truly "critical" element.  Indeed, if you were to take, say, a couple of Genesis albums, a couple of Yes albums, a couple of GG albums, a couple of KC albums et al, and remove the vocal tracks entirely, you would still have brilliant prog music.  Indeed, that is one of the reasons why we all appreciate the instrumental sections of extended prog songs so much: because they focus entirely on the music, and how well it is composed, arranged, played, produced, etc. Don't get me wrong: I love most prog lyrics, from Gabriel's allegories to John Anderson's mystical writings, from Peter Sinfield's paranoia to Ian Anderson's quasi-Celtic and "rural" ramblings.  But it is simply a gross overstatement to say that lyrics are "a huge part" of prog.  They are one element, and perhaps a "fun" one, but not a "critical" one. As for "intelligence" somehow setting prog apart from "ordinary" popular music, as true as that may be in many cases, if it were true "across the board" then The Beatles would be the first band added to any prog site, since they probably brought more "intelligence" to popular music - i.e., to a vastly wider audience by sheer dint of their global fame - than any band in history. You seem to think that my disagreeing with you - or even having a different opinion based on my own knowledge and understanding - is a "personal" thing.  It is not, so please try to refrain from taking it that way.  We are having an...intelligent (hopefully ) discussion/debate.  You need not react as if I had thrown an ashtray at you... Peace.

ummm.....Gong and Can never used lyrics????.....I would check their discography again my friend. My first response to you was in jest, I was joking......Secondly...when I say that lyrics were a huge part of prog rock, that in no way means that I feel that lyrics are the Most important part of prog rock, I simply meant that lyrics are indeed integral, and they are....this ALSO, DOES NOT MEAN that I feel the instrumental music is less prog. I am a HUGE lover of instrumental music, even more so than vocal music....once again, it just means that I feel that when lyrics are used they remain a integral ingredient to the music.

And the warning that I am referring to.....oh maani, oh dear maani....is when you sent me a private message scolding me for using "bad" language on the site. I took issue with this because I constantly see people use "bad" language on this site all the time....and I wrote you back saying...."I hope that EVERYONE and ANYONE who has EVER used 'bad' language on this site gets the same warning"......

tuxon wrote: Queen never where really progressive in they're lyrics, and as Maani pointed out, that's not important really, it's the underlying music that makes a band progressive.

Tell that to Jon Anderson.....tell that to Ian Anderson.....tell that to Peter Gabriel......Tell them that their lyrics mean NOTHING and are not that important. That is crazy talk my friend.

And many of you are Hypocrites.....all of you who hate Frank Zappa because of his so-called "offensive" lyrics. Well my friends, if lyrics are not that important why cant you look past the lyrics and focus on HOW FRICKIN' AMAZING HIS MUSIC IS!!!!......Why??....because your language is filled with double talk that's why.

AND ONCE AGAIN I REITERATE.....if you truly believe that lyrical content is in NO WAY tied to PROG ROCK THEN YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR DAMN MIND!!!!!!!

tuxon wrote: why don't you use your energie to add some of Queen's albums that still need inclusion. (greatest hits 1, 2, 3, Queen Rocks, some live albums, and some more) and focus on that instead of trying to alienate me.

I'm not trying to alienate you. I don't want to alienate anybody.

Proglover wrote: tuxon wrote: why don't you use your energie to add some of Queen's albums that still need inclusion. (greatest hits 1, 2, 3, Queen Rocks, some live albums, and some more) and focus on that instead of trying to alienate me.  I'm not trying to alienate you. I don't want to alienate anybody.

You're doing a bloody good job though!

Snow Dog wrote: Proglover wrote: tuxon wrote: why don't you use your energie to add some of Queen's albums that still need inclusion. (greatest hits 1, 2, 3, Queen Rocks, some live albums, and some more) and focus on that instead of trying to alienate me.  I'm not trying to alienate you. I don't want to alienate anybody. You're doing a bloody good job though!

Well as we all know I am evil, and deserve to die.....why don't you guys kick me off the site......oh wait...I gotcha...GREAT IDEA proglover......

I love it....when people attack me....No one has a problem!!!.....but as soon as I defend my self or express my opinion I get attacked and ganged up on.....

If you hate me...I don't give a damn, I'm not here to make friends, I dont care what you think about me..I am going to say what I want, when I want, and how I want.

"I dont care what you think about me..I am going to say what I want, when I want, and how I want."  Proglover

And a darn good thing, too!

You know...it seems that so many people just LOVE ME on this site ( get the hint of sarcasm)......you guys should either do one of TWO things.....learn to accept me OR Kick me off the site.

Make me King OR Crucify me.....the ball is in your court.

I use to get really hurt when I would receive nasty responses.....but now, I get a kick outta making you guys angry....and the best part is....I don't even try!!!...HAHAHA!

I wanted to be a member on this site to express myself to people who I THOUGHT would understand me...after finding no one else to indentify with my love of progressive rock, I felt that perhaps I could receive shelter in this supposed haven....yet my being on this site has been extremely uncomfortable for me, as I find that the members (not everyone of course) of this site are indeed even more closed minded, elitist, and hateful than those I've tried to escape.

SO NOW.....this becomes sport to me.....believe it or not I have always tried to be thoughful and respect of people's opinions, while still holding strong to my own. Perhaps I learned that it just is not possible to do both.....So now, once again this becomes sport to me...I no longer know the meaning of the word TACT...if you guys thought you hated me before....LOL......you ain't seen nothing yet....

Proglover:

You said: "keep negativity outta MY threads....thanks!!"

You then went on to say:

"I didn't expect you of all people to TRY to say a positive thing about Queen or my writings."  Not just negativity, but unnecessary sarcasm.

"Oh by the way....are you giving out any more warnings, or was that just for me???"  More sarcasm, as well as bringing in something that has nothing to do with this thread.  Indeed, a "private message" is just that: private.  You have thus also betrayed the trust inherent in that privacy by bringing this into the public sphere.

"oh maani, oh dear maani."  More unnecessary sarcasm...

"And many of you are Hypocrites."  Truly a "positive" statement if ever there was one...(and, yes, I am resorting to sarcasm here, so that must make me a hypocrite too).

"I'm not trying to alienate you. I don't want to alienate anybody."  As Snow Dog pointed out, you are nevertheless doing a good job.

Now consider the following comment by you in this light: "Well as we all know I am evil, and deserve to die.....why don't you guys kick me off the site......oh wait...I gotcha...GREAT IDEA proglover......I love it....when people attack me....No one has a problem!!!.....but as soon as I defend my self or express my opinion I get attacked and ganged up on.....If you hate me...I don't give a damn, I'm not here to make friends, I dont care what you think about me..I am going to say what I want, when I want, and how I want."

You are not evil, nor has anyone suggested so.  You do not deserve to die, nor has anyone suggested so.  Nobody is looking to kick you off the site, nor has anyone suggested so.  No one has "attacked" you or "ganged up on you" here: other people have simply expressed different opinions to your own.  No one hates you here, nor has that been suggested by anyone.

Indeed, your complete lack of understanding of interacting with people in cyberspace was made clear when you assumed that my restatement of your comment - "I dont care what you think about me..I am going to say what I want, when I want, and how I want " - and my own comment in response ("And a darn good thing, too! ") was meant sarcastically rather than honestly.  Your presumption is wrong.  I was, in fact, supporting your right to not care what other people think about you, to say what you want, when you want and how you want.  But for some reason, you chose to read it as both sarcastic and unsupportive.

What do you say now?

Your final diatribe is of a piece with your inability to accept other people's opinions, despite your protestations to the contrary.  Apparently, anyone who disagrees with you is either a hypocrite, or is somehow personally attacking you, or hates you, or wants to see you thrown off the site.

Where is all this hostility coming from?  There is not one post on this thread that would lead a casual, uninvolved observer to believe that any of your paranoia or negativity is warranted.

You need to calm down, my friend: take a few steps back, take a few deep breaths, and re-assess your attitude and approach here.  You have every right to your opinions, and to be passionate about them.  However, so does everyone else.  And if all you see when they offer those equally passionate positions is "attack" and "hate," then you are not giving them the same courtesy that you are expecting for your own opinions.

Peace.

maani wrote: Proglover: You said: "keep negativity outta MY threads....thanks!!" You then went on to say: "I didn't expect you of all people to TRY to say a positive thing about Queen or my writings."  Not just negativity, but unnecessary sarcasm. "Oh by the way....are you giving out any more warnings, or was that just for me???"  More sarcasm, as well as bringing in something that has nothing to do with this thread.  Indeed, a "private message" is just that: private.  You have thus also betrayed the trust inherent in that privacy by bringing this into the public sphere. "oh maani, oh dear maani."  More unnecessary sarcasm... "And many of you are Hypocrites."  Truly a "positive" statement if ever there was one...(and, yes, I am resorting to sarcasm here, so that must make me a hypocrite too). "I'm not trying to alienate you. I don't want to alienate anybody."  As Snow Dog pointed out, you are nevertheless doing a good job. Now consider the following comment by you in this light: "Well as we all know I am evil, and deserve to die.....why don't you guys kick me off the site......oh wait...I gotcha...GREAT IDEA proglover......I love it....when people attack me....No one has a problem!!!.....but as soon as I defend my self or express my opinion I get attacked and ganged up on.....If you hate me...I don't give a damn, I'm not here to make friends, I dont care what you think about me..I am going to say what I want, when I want, and how I want." You are not evil, nor has anyone suggested so.  You do not deserve to die, nor has anyone suggested so.  Nobody is looking to kick you off the site, nor has anyone suggested so.  No one has "attacked" you or "ganged up on you" here: other people have simply expressed different opinions to your own.  No one hates you here, nor has that been suggested by anyone. Indeed, your complete lack of understanding of interacting with people in cyberspace was made clear when you assumed that my restatement of your comment - "I dont care what you think about me..I am going to say what I want, when I want, and how I want " - and my own comment in response ("And a darn good thing, too! ") was meant sarcastically rather than honestly.  Your presumption is wrong.  I was, in fact, supporting your right to not care what other people think about you, to say what you want, when you want and how you want.  But for some reason, you chose to read it as both sarcastic and unsupportive. What do you say now? Your final diatribe is of a piece with your inability to accept other people's opinions, despite your protestations to the contrary.  Apparently, anyone who disagrees with you is either a hypocrite, or is somehow personally attacking you, or hates you, or wants to see you thrown off the site. Where is all this hostility coming from?  There is not one post on this thread that would lead a casual, uninvolved observer to believe that any of your paranoia or negativity is warranted. You need to calm down, my friend: take a few steps back, take a few deep breaths, and re-assess your attitude and approach here.  You have every right to your opinions, and to be passionate about them.  However, so does everyone else.  And if all you see when they offer those equally passionate positions is "attack" and "hate," then you are not giving them the same courtesy that you are expecting for your own opinions. Peace.

....Oh why am I constantly being misunderstood on this site???....Ok let me take this one step at a time

1. When I said....."oh maani, oh dear maani"......I was not in ANYWAY being sarcastic or mean spirited. I'm sorry that you read it that way. I was trying to be nice
2. When you applauded me when I said..."I don't care what you think about me. I'm going to say what I want, when I want, how I want".......I DID INFACT appreciate what you did, and no I DID NOT view it as attacking or being unsupportive. Infact I have no idea where you got that assumption. I never even responded to that because there was no need to. I thought it was a nice gesture and I let it BE.
3. My issue with bringing your private message to me into the public light was because quite frankly I thought that your message to me was uncalled for, especially since I've seen worse from other members on this site.
4. I got news for you....when people tell me....to go f**k off, or call me a pompous asshole, or imply that I'm stupid, or call me fanatical for liking Frank Zappa as much as I do....THAT IS ATTACKING!!!!!!............And further more I don't have to take it

I see that we will NEVER see eye to eye...and that is fine with me, but I am quickly losing patience.

Yes, I did call people on this site hypocrites....you know why???.....BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE ON THIS SITE ARE HYPOCRITES!!!

If you want to believe that I am some tyrannical maniac who loses his head with NO provocation whatsoever, that is your business.....like I said, I could care less what you think about me.

YES I do indeed combat people's opinion with my own....BUT I WOULD NEVER ATTACK PEOPLE ON A PERSONAL LEVEL, unless of course provoked......I do at times go after people's opinions as they do mine, which I have no problem with....but when it gets personal thats when I have a problem....It does in a way piss me off that no one sees my point of view....why must I be the crazy one??.....But like I said...whatever.......life goes on maani....as will I

peace

Brilliant, keep em coming.

sits back and enjoy's the view

Proglover:

If you step back and read through this thread, you will find that your last, highly defensive post came almost immediately after my supportive comment.  What else could it have been a reaction to?  True, Cert had made a somewhat ambiguous joking comment after it.  But there was nothing else that your most recent diatribe seems to have been a response to, if looked at by someone just now reading through this thread for the first time.  If it was not related to my supportive comment that you claim to have understood was supportive, what then were you responding to?

As for your comment that "I got news for you....when people tell me....to go f**k off, or call me a pompous asshole, or imply that I'm stupid, or call me fanatical for liking Frank Zappa as much as I do....THAT IS ATTACKING!!!!!!............And further more I don't have to take it."

First, no one here, on this thread, has told you to go anywhere, or called you anything, or implied anything (indeed, the reverse is true, since you have implied that others are hypocrites), or called you fanatical, or attacked you.  Indeed, you have spent more time attacking yourself than anyone has attacking you.  Second, if things are happening in other threads, don't "bring them with you"; no one here has said one word about Zappa, so why bring that up.

As an aside, if you feel someone is attacking you, the proper thing to do - if you had read the guidelines - is to ignore it, and not engage that person, but rather to contact me via PM and let me know the member and the thread name.  It is then my job to assess what is happening and, if a personal attack has in fact occurred, to warn the member by PM to refrain from such attacks or they will be ejected from the site.  That is why there are guidelines.  That is why there is a procedure for the enforcement of those guidelines.  That is why I was made a member of the admin group: to help create and enforce the guidelines of the site.

Finally, as for your comment that "My issue with bringing your private message to me into the public light was because quite frankly I thought that your message to me was uncalled for, especially since I've seen worse from other members on this site."  Again, if you feel that other members are "getting away with" something that you are being warned about, it is my job to determine that: contact me by PM and let me know the member's name and the thread name and I will determine what steps, if any, need to be taken.  In the meantime, you have betrayed the only real "trust" that can be established on the site; the use of private messaging.

Your defensiveness is palpable.  It is also entirely unnecessary.  As I noted to you, you need to take a couple of steps back, take a few feep breaths, and re-assess your attitude and approach here.  Because if you have few supporters, it is not because people don't like you or want you thrown off the site.  It's because you are doing nothing to instill a sense of comraderie, equality or trust.

Peace.

maani wrote: Proglover: If you step back and read through this thread, you will find that your last, highly defensive post came almost immediately after my supportive comment.  What else could it have been a reaction to?  True, Cert had made a somewhat ambiguous joking comment after it.  But there was nothing else that your most recent diatribe seems to have been a response to, if looked at by someone just now reading through this thread for the first time.  If it was not related to my supportive comment that you claim to have understood was supportive, what then were you responding to? As for your comment that "I got news for you....when people tell me....to go f**k off, or call me a pompous asshole, or imply that I'm stupid, or call me fanatical for liking Frank Zappa as much as I do....THAT IS ATTACKING!!!!!!............And further more I don't have to take it." First, no one here, on this thread, has told you to go anywhere, or called you anything, or implied anything (indeed, the reverse is true, since you have implied that others are hypocrites), or called you fanatical, or attacked you.  Indeed, you have spent more time attacking yourself than anyone has attacking you.  Second, if things are happening in other threads, don't "bring them with you"; no one here has said one word about Zappa, so why bring that up. As an aside, if you feel someone is attacking you, the proper thing to do - if you had read the guidelines - is to ignore it, and not engage that person, but rather to contact me via PM and let me know the member and the thread name.  It is then my job to assess what is happening and, if a personal attack has in fact occurred, to warn the member by PM to refrain from such attacks or they will be ejected from the site.  That is why there are guidelines.  That is why there is a procedure for the enforcement of those guidelines.  That is why I was made a member of the admin group: to help create and enforce the guidelines of the site. Finally, as for your comment that "My issue with bringing your private message to me into the public light was because quite frankly I thought that your message to me was uncalled for, especially since I've seen worse from other members on this site."  Again, if you feel that other members are "getting away with" something that you are being warned about, it is my job to determine that: contact me by PM and let me know the member's name and the thread name and I will determine what steps, if any, need to be taken.  In the meantime, you have betrayed the only real "trust" that can be established on the site; the use of private messaging. Your defensiveness is palpable.  It is also entirely unnecessary.  As I noted to you, you need to take a couple of steps back, take a few feep breaths, and re-assess your attitude and approach here.  Because if you have few supporters, it is not because people don't like you or want you thrown off the site.  It's because you are doing nothing to instill a sense of comraderie, equality or trust. Peace.

I can't believe what I just read....I am so done.............

chopper wrote: Wow, this is getting a bit heavy now guys. ProgLover - how come everyone who doesn't agree with your opinion is (quote) "out of your damn mind"? Just one final question - if, as you say ProgLover "ALL OF PROG ROCK IS A PASTICHE!!!", what is it a pastiche of exactly?

......I am done....my opinions do not matter.........

Proglover wrote: italprogfan wrote: you're all kidding, right? Hey new rule established by ME.....keep negativity outta MY threads....thanks!!

and sarcasm

Proglover:

On the contrary, your opinions do matter.  However, so do everyone else's - equally.

Peace.

maani wrote: Proglover: On the contrary, your opinions do matter.  However, so do everyone else's - equally. Peace.

I do not know why I am responding because I promised myself I would no longer respond to any of these posts...but I would just like to say one thing....which people don't seem to understand

I respect people's opinion...I have never had a problem with opinions that conflict with my own.....I DO however have a problem with personal attacks.....

In any event all my words are in vain....and I am sick to death of trying to defend myself. SO lets put an end to it.....you guys were right, and I was wrong.....moving on!