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Topic: King Crimson's Mellotrons (2014)Posted By: cstack3
Subject: King Crimson's Mellotrons (2014)
Date Posted: September 16 2015 at 02:33
I'm a huge fan of the Mellotron, and was delighted to see King Crimson deploy these sounds at the Chicago concert (Vic Theater, 26 September 2014).
One aspect that struck me was the way that various band members, particularly drummers, evoked Mellotron sounds from some hand-held digital device. It was stunning! However, at that time I wasn't sure what trickery they were using.
I've found out that they used an i-Pad app, please see:
Bob Fripp is quoted as saying "We no longer take Mellotrons on the road. Instead we take this iPad app."
I just downloaded the app tonight on my wife's i-Pad and am blowing my brains out at 2 am, playing the introduction chords to "Watcher of the Skies" etc.!!
Easy to use, highly recommended, and pretty cheap to boot!! Enjoy, Charles
Replies: Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: September 16 2015 at 03:54
Well, iPads are easier to carry around. Is there an Android version?
Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: September 16 2015 at 11:05
Sweet. I think I know what I want for Christmas.
------------- He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!
Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: September 16 2015 at 11:10
They take three drum sets on the road, there's no space for a Mellotron
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: September 16 2015 at 11:18
Meltdowner wrote:
They take three drum sets on the road, there's no space for a Mellotron
That is why they are packing iPads!! RF also had a full electronic keyboard (I presume a work station) at his little corner of the stage, in the back (you can see the monitor). Perhaps the best concert I've ever seen, and I've seen hundreds.
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: September 16 2015 at 11:45
And who doesn't like the sound of the mellotron.....but for those who have seen the new KC tour; why 3 drum kits...? I can see two though even that seems a bit much ...but 3 actual drum kits..?
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: September 16 2015 at 16:09
Doc, when Fripp eventually brings a couch on stage and lays down to play his parts, you will need something exciting to look at. Three drummers should do the trick, I should think.
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: September 16 2015 at 16:17
SteveG wrote:
Doc, when Fripp eventually brings a couch on stage and lays down to play his parts, you will need something exciting to look at. Three drummers should do the trick, I should think.
Ok then...that explains it.
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Posted By: John McIntyre
Date Posted: September 16 2015 at 18:20
They may use I-pads, but they also have Memotrons. I'll be seeing them on Thursday night (Usher Hall, Edinburgh), so I'll see how they do it.
------------- I am one of only about 1,800 people in the world with an original M400 Mellotron!
Posted By: DaleHauskins
Date Posted: September 16 2015 at 20:54
Being a lifelong Los Angeles guitarist,I learned and experienced a long
time ago how heavy and the work involved touring with two Mellowtrons
with a busy legendary hard-working Swiss progressive rock band called
Flame Dream signed to Vertigo Records. (Thank God for Swiss roadies!)
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: September 16 2015 at 23:04
dr wu23 wrote:
And who doesn't like the sound of the mellotron.....but for those who have seen the new KC tour; why 3 drum kits...? I can see two though even that seems a bit much ...but 3 actual drum kits..?
I know, it sounds excessive, but it has to be experienced live! The drummers all have a great deal of finesse, and each acts almost like a percussionist in an orchestra rather than a conventional "kit drummer" in a rock band. The richness of the percussion is remarkable, and it reminds me of the importance of percussion throughout Fripp's catalog.
The way that they are able to replicate the Bruford/Muir sounds of LTIA era KC was the most impressive! The audience was hushed, and even subtle chimes and *tock* sounds of wooden instruments could be heard through a rather large venue.
I'm a fan! I don't think any other band could work with three drummers, Fripp knows how to keep them under control.
Posted By: O666
Date Posted: September 17 2015 at 08:26
I have a question. I guess he used Guitar for remake Mellotrone sound and playing (in Tokyo I guess). Is it correct?
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: September 17 2015 at 09:13
cstack3 wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
And who doesn't like the sound of the mellotron.....but for those who have seen the new KC tour; why 3 drum kits...? I can see two though even that seems a bit much ...but 3 actual drum kits..?
I know, it sounds excessive, but it has to be experienced live! The drummers all have a great deal of finesse, and each acts almost like a percussionist in an orchestra rather than a conventional "kit drummer" in a rock band. The richness of the percussion is remarkable, and it reminds me of the importance of percussion throughout Fripp's catalog.
The way that they are able to replicate the Bruford/Muir sounds of LTIA era KC was the most impressive! The audience was hushed, and even subtle chimes and *tock* sounds of wooden instruments could be heard through a rather large venue.
I'm a fan! I don't think any other band could work with three drummers, Fripp knows how to keep them under control.
Ok.....I suspect you saw them in Chicago.,,,,,,what was the venue?
And do you know if they are coming back around anytime soon?
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: September 17 2015 at 09:16
O666 wrote:
I have a question. I guess he used Guitar for remake Mellotrone sound and playing (in Tokyo I guess). Is it correct?
Fripp uses his "Frippertronics" which triggers MIDI samples when he's playing.
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
Posted By: O666
Date Posted: September 17 2015 at 10:00
SteveG wrote:
O666 wrote:
I have a question. I guess he used Guitar for remake Mellotrone sound and playing (in Tokyo I guess). Is it correct?
Fripp uses his "Frippertronics" which triggers MIDI samples when he's playing.
Thanks Steve. I think Fripp's "Finger Position" is unique and he is a great "Instrument's Sound Specialist" IMO.
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: September 17 2015 at 10:04
^Yes, he's certainly a unique and talented guitarist and composer and deserves his accolades.
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
Posted By: O666
Date Posted: September 17 2015 at 10:41
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: September 17 2015 at 16:08
dr wu23 wrote:
cstack3 wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
And who doesn't like the sound of the mellotron.....but for those who have seen the new KC tour; why 3 drum kits...? I can see two though even that seems a bit much ...but 3 actual drum kits..?
I know, it sounds excessive, but it has to be experienced live! The drummers all have a great deal of finesse, and each acts almost like a percussionist in an orchestra rather than a conventional "kit drummer" in a rock band. The richness of the percussion is remarkable, and it reminds me of the importance of percussion throughout Fripp's catalog.
The way that they are able to replicate the Bruford/Muir sounds of LTIA era KC was the most impressive! The audience was hushed, and even subtle chimes and *tock* sounds of wooden instruments could be heard through a rather large venue.
I'm a fan! I don't think any other band could work with three drummers, Fripp knows how to keep them under control.
Ok.....I suspect you saw them in Chicago.,,,,,,what was the venue?
And do you know if they are coming back around anytime soon?
It was the Vic Theater, a very old, somewhat run-down movie house that often hosts progressive acts such as Dream Theater, Musical Box etc. The acoustics are surprisingly good!
Bob used to always play at the Park West venue, which is much more intimate but has less seat capacity. I'd see him at a bus station if I had to!
And no, I haven't heard of a return engagement, although I keep my eyes open.
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: September 17 2015 at 16:54
cstack3 wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
cstack3 wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
And who doesn't like the sound of the mellotron.....but for those who have seen the new KC tour; why 3 drum kits...? I can see two though even that seems a bit much ...but 3 actual drum kits..?
I know, it sounds excessive, but it has to be experienced live! The drummers all have a great deal of finesse, and each acts almost like a percussionist in an orchestra rather than a conventional "kit drummer" in a rock band. The richness of the percussion is remarkable, and it reminds me of the importance of percussion throughout Fripp's catalog.
The way that they are able to replicate the Bruford/Muir sounds of LTIA era KC was the most impressive! The audience was hushed, and even subtle chimes and *tock* sounds of wooden instruments could be heard through a rather large venue.
I'm a fan! I don't think any other band could work with three drummers, Fripp knows how to keep them under control.
Ok.....I suspect you saw them in Chicago.,,,,,,what was the venue?
And do you know if they are coming back around anytime soon?
It was the Vic Theater, a very old, somewhat run-down movie house that often hosts progressive acts such as Dream Theater, Musical Box etc. The acoustics are surprisingly good!
Bob used to always play at the Park West venue, which is much more intimate but has less seat capacity. I'd see him at a bus station if I had to!
And no, I haven't heard of a return engagement, although I keep my eyes open.
Been to the Vic a number of times over the years...saw Dead Can Dance there as well as Ray Davies . Nice place.....I saw Crimson in the old days at Bismarck Theater and a newer venue in a suburb of Chicago some years ago.
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: September 18 2015 at 12:05
The now-and-unveiling future is at hand! I missed the L.A. show last spring, but it's interesting to know how Bob and crew pulled portions of it off. Thanks for the info.
------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: September 19 2015 at 21:44
dr wu23 wrote:
Been to the Vic a number of times over the years...saw Dead Can Dance there as well as Ray Davies . Nice place.....I saw Crimson in the old days at Bismarck Theater and a newer venue in a suburb of Chicago some years ago.
I was at the same show at the Bismark Theater, this is the review...it was great!!
However, I draw a blank, trying to think of a Crimson gig in a suburb of Chicago! They were booked to play "Beat" at an outdoor venue in the northwestern suburbs, but a torrential rainstorm ruined that!! I never got to see the "Beat" tour, bummer!
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: September 19 2015 at 21:48
I hear 'tron on the recent live album from The Orpheum. No credit, though some sources say Bill Rieflin plays 'it' ?? What - an I-pad ??
Posted By: froggyted
Date Posted: September 20 2015 at 05:29
Ah, that solves that mystery then! I saw Crimson at Birmingham Symphony Hall last Tuesday, and an amazing gig it was too. I wondered how the middle drummer was creating those mellotron sounds when I couldn't even see an instrument at all behind his drumkit.
Posted By: John McIntyre
Date Posted: October 09 2015 at 08:54
I saw KC at Edinburgh on their first night, and from my vantage point, I could see Bill Reiflin (the middle drummer) play a small keyboard of some sort for all the required Mellotron parts (Starless, Epitaph, etc) but I couldn't make out exactly what it was, other than it was orange(!). I also saw him hit the same keyboard with a drumstick, making an un-drumlike sound, so I'm guessing it's a MIDI keyboard driving some sort of software driven something.Historically, Fripp has possession of 6 Mellotrons - a pair of Mk2's and 4 x M400's (2 white, which toured from 1971-74, a gloss-black one which Fripp played in 1974, and another one covered in what looks like carpet that he bought from ex-Uriah Heep man Ken Hensley). One of the trons is owned out-right by Fripp, and the other 5 are owned by King Crimson, whatever form that takes.
------------- I am one of only about 1,800 people in the world with an original M400 Mellotron!
Posted By: pitfall
Date Posted: November 15 2015 at 16:21
I have a reel to reel(!) recording of the M400 string and mixed brass tapes taken from one of the Mellotrons used by Crimson '71-'74 when they were refurbished in the late 1970's.
The tape frames were pretty knackered, but the sounds are so much more atmospheric than the ones I hear from digital versions these days.
Posted By: ajfebresa
Date Posted: January 23 2016 at 23:49
There are some pretty interesting mellotron emulations called redtron M400 and redtron MKV (free VST plug-ins: https://sites.google.com/site/artifakelabs/).
Long before, I used a VST called M-Tron, which had some amazing tape strings, even a preset for playing Watcher of the Skies!
Redtron is lighter anyhow.
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: February 03 2016 at 10:23
dr wu23 wrote:
And who doesn't like the sound of the mellotron.....but for those who have seen the new KC tour; why 3 drum kits...? I can see two though even that seems a bit much ...but 3 actual drum kits..?
The sad part of this, is not imagining that 3 drummers can do 3 different things on any piece of music ... which, in some ways, explains rock'n'roll music fans all around ... no ability to think about the music beyond its "basics".
The history of music has been about changes and improvements and other things ... they said the same thing about Beethoven and Tchaikovsky, when they said they wanted 24 violins, not 2. And many orchestras freaked out at the volume and the cost at the time ... but today, almost 200 years later, you are not complaining about it, are you?
On another post, I compared this to another version of the same song, as if it were done by different conductors. 50 years ago, Stravinsky was not the same when you heard it done by Karajhan, or Bernstein, or Leinsdorf. There were different accents, and a lot of this became "visible" when Stokowsky did "Fantasia" for Walt Disney, and he realized that he could change the orchestra organization to get different accents in any piece of music, and for the next 30 years, every conductor took advantage of that to the point where some conductors were known to be the "master" of this composer or that.
Rock music is stale, and boring and out of time and place, now. It has lost its spark, because some of our idiocies, like purity of thought and concept, are stuck in a time warp. So you are such a purist that a baroque sounding this and that would be better for you ... ohhh btw, the harpsichord would fall out of tune because the ambience in those days had no central heating to keep it constant and alive for your show.
We've lost the concept of "concert", and "interpretation" ... because we think it is wrong, and this has been one of the greatest inventions and salvations that was the reason why music lasted in the first place, and you still hear it after 500 years!
That Robert, used 3 drummers, might be a freak, if one said, I wanna be here even if my job is to crush tomatoes, and what not, and something can be found in the music that can use the 2nd and 3rd drummer, to add an accent to the music. AND this is the case, in this last tour, with the 3 drummers, but you really need to have the ability and experience to appreciate a new interpretation of the piece you compare to the original on the CD/LP all the time ... because if you don't, this appreciation for music is gone, and your talent for loving music, is slanted ... has less to do with music than it does your own lullaby favorites that take you to sleep, not to mention the significant other, whom you are boring senselessly, now? (instead of an audience?)
Take a look at this with different eyes and ears ... it is, by far, one of the most magical of all interpretations of any work that Robert Fripp has done with his band, King Crimson. It is also, an honor, that he would respect music so much, to try and create improvements, to fix little things that might have not been quite perfect before in his music ... and this interpretation is full of moments that stand out so beautifully ... that are just simply beyond words.
It's just sad, and sometimes pathetic, to see comments, sometimes, that merely compare the music to the original and tomorrow the original will be 300 years away, and your comparison is silly and ignorant at best! Now you know why I fight for music ... more music and only music ... the rest is un-necessary!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: March 23 2016 at 16:52
I play a Yamaha Motif XF7 and use mellotron samples from http://vintagekeyboardsounds.com/page_mellotron.html" rel="nofollow - vintagekeyboardsounds.com/page_mellotron.html . Each key is an individual sample taken from an SM400 so you get the wobble, tuning variations and actual 6 - 8 second note length variations that make the tron so magical. $20/set...set1: 3 violins/cello/choir...set2: flutes/brass/cello and I love their description of the actual tron:
The samples originate from this actual Mellotron SM400 that resides in our studio. This Mellotron lived most of its life safely tucked away in the corner of a recording studio and was never on tour or abused by burned out progressive rockers. This is why it looks and sounds so good.
------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987
Posted By: Davesax1965
Date Posted: April 05 2016 at 09:27
The GEFORCE MTron Pro is recommended, but not cheap. ;-)
Mellotrons. Nightmare instrument - in real life. 9 second delay on the tapes, utterly unreliable on stage, and "tuning a Mellotron... doesn't", as the famous quote had it. There may be many fans here, but you don't have to play an original onstage. I guarantee you'd go off it.
Any sampling synth (or the virtual synth above) can do a very good job of emulating a Tron. Go the easy route on this one. ;-)
-------------
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: April 05 2016 at 09:49
^ Yes Dave - you are utterly correct !! Even 'Planet Mellotron' (fluck, I've forgotten his name....) is having trouble distinguishing the difference (Andy Thompson........) - these days, the quality of a sample is as good as the real thing. And, pedantic OCD aside, if there were a more 'compact' thing that gives off this sound, well, then......... (We have all grown to love this machine - with all its limitations and short-comings.......)