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Most overrated album No. 1

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Topic: Most overrated album No. 1
Posted By: DDPascalDD
Subject: Most overrated album No. 1
Date Posted: September 11 2015 at 14:03
The proceeding of "Most overrated artist", which of these albums is the most overrated? Do we have "very popular but not that good" prog albums?
Let's find out!LOL


My vote goes for the iconic prism album.


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Replies:
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: September 11 2015 at 14:08
I never vote for overrated polls

IMHO Overrated means = Look at those idiots who love what I decided is mediocre.

All these albums have reached their place in the Prog Pantheon, because they deserve it.

I like Foxtrot more, but this doesn't mean I consider the others overrated


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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: September 11 2015 at 14:12
No vote. There's nothing here that's overrated, over celebrated or over appreciated, IMHO.

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Posted By: Nightfly
Date Posted: September 11 2015 at 14:31
All  deserved classics - no overrating as far as I'm concerned.


Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: September 11 2015 at 14:40
Floyd for me, because I never liked the band. The others are classics. 


Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: September 11 2015 at 14:45
"Overrated" (or underrated, for that matter) is a subjective concept. For many people, it simply means "something I don't like".


Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: September 11 2015 at 14:50
Hemispheres and The Wall are both a bit sh*t. This lot are fine.


Posted By: progresssaurus
Date Posted: September 11 2015 at 14:50
Nothing overrated here for my taste Smile


Posted By: tboyd1802
Date Posted: September 11 2015 at 14:58
Ditto, no vote...

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Posted By: sublime220
Date Posted: September 11 2015 at 15:08
Crimson King is my least favourite but that doesn't mean it's necessarily overrated. Will not vote.

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There is no dark side in the moon, really... Matter of fact, it's all dark...


Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: September 11 2015 at 15:22

Certainly not Crimson or Yes. I'll have to think about the other two... LOL



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Posted By: t d wombat
Date Posted: September 11 2015 at 17:03
Sing alone now boys and girls .... I know what I like and I like what I know .... Smile

COtCK is part super and part dross for me. I've never been overly awed by DSotM but overrated ..... would that I could have made made such a ridiculously successful piece of overratedness .... though I'd rather take less money and have my name on Wish You Were Here.


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Andrew B

“Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” ― Julius Henry Marx


Posted By: Xonty
Date Posted: September 11 2015 at 17:07
Each of these records has been an all-time favourite of mine. KC's debut was the one that got me into prog more than any other, Dark Side was my favourite before I knew what prog even was, CTTE is the archetypal prog LP, and Supper's Ready is possibly the greatest song/suite ever written. These 4 (plus Selling England) are probably the only "classic" progressive albums I consider under-rated, if anything. So a long story short, no vote Confused


Posted By: ole-the-first
Date Posted: September 11 2015 at 17:23
The Dark Side of the Moon. I would never place it higher than on the fifth place in Pink Floyd discography.


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This night wounds time.


Posted By: micky
Date Posted: September 11 2015 at 17:34
oh that one is easy...

one may be the greatest rock album ever recorded...

one is considered the launching pad for prog rock..

one is considered the masterpiece of prog..

the last... just another Genesis album

Foxtrot.. by light years in the overrated category.  Doesn't belong in teh same breath as the other three.


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Posted By: Cailyn
Date Posted: September 11 2015 at 19:53
No vote.  Each of these are iconic albums and an overrated vote likely means you don't love it, not that it's overrated.  I don't understand the apparent animus towards DSOTM except it now sounds a bit dated and has suffered over the years from severe overplay.  When it was released, it was a musical revelation.  If you don't love it, fine, but calling it overrated is just dumb IMHO.


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Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: September 11 2015 at 21:19
None. All deserve their respective accolades.



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https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/


Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: September 11 2015 at 21:28
I don't believe in 'overrated'.......they are rated highly, over and over again, for a reason. And as someone mentioned earlier, as well as in my case, these can lose their impact over years due to over exposure and 100's of listens.


Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: September 11 2015 at 21:33
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

None. All deserve their respective accolades.


I agree


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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: September 11 2015 at 22:01
Dark Side of the Moon is probably the only one of these to show up in a Rolling Stones top 100 rock album poll, so I'd say that there probably all underrated.

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Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: September 11 2015 at 22:34
Voted for Dark Side because nothing deserves to be in the top 200 for 100 years lol. This had to have something to do with hype---thus overrated. Smile


Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: September 11 2015 at 22:38
Hard not to vote CttE, but anything Genesis is always the most overrated


Posted By: TheLionOfPrague
Date Posted: September 11 2015 at 22:45
Close to the Edge for me.

It's a great album for sure, but I don't see how it should be ranked over Thick as a Brick, DSOTM, SEBT or ITCOTKC and maybe a couple more in the TOP 100 PA ranking. I don't think it's the greatest Prog album of all time. In fact I think I might prefer The Yes Album or Fragile slightly more, it's close between the three. Although I have to say that as much as I like Yes, I put it slightly below Floyd, Genesis and Jethro (and maybe KC and ELP).

But they're all great albums, I can't say I find one of those REALLY overrated, only that I slightly prefer the others.


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I shook my head and smiled a whisper knowing all about the place


Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: September 11 2015 at 22:45
Originally posted by ole-the-first ole-the-first wrote:

The Dark Side of the Moon. I would never place it higher than on the fifth place in Pink Floyd discography.
^ This. I think WYWH is 10 times the album DSOTM is, never understood the adulation.


Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: September 11 2015 at 23:20
CTTE

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Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.


Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 00:36
They all sound fine to me and I have no problem with their iconic standings.

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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 01:27
Dark Side... because millions of people who hasn't heard much music apart form what gets shoved down everyone's throat (and most certainly not those three other albums in this poll) think it the greatest thing ever. If you only got Coldplay, Oasis and U2 to compare with, its true.


Posted By: chrijom
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 02:01
I think they all suffer from hyperbole at times, but TDSOTM is the most overrated of these.


Posted By: fudgenuts64
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 02:11
Dark Side of the Moon, but it's a fine album. Poll is silly but that album is the most popular and therefore "overrated" heh

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Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 02:33
Over Ate ? Lasagna , the other day, LOL 

All four dishes are delicious 


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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 03:23
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

"Overrated" (or underrated, for that matter) is a subjective concept. For many people, it simply means "something I don't like".


absolutely!! Clap

just like ubnder-rated could mean: some dreck I'm the only one to like

No vote on this list from me either


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 03:27
^ same here.

Anyone who thinks that any of these albums are overrated, leave the room now.


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What?


Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 04:07
^Jeez, just stay out of these threads you all instead of this PC-version of trolling. 

Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

"Overrated" (or underrated, for that matter) is a subjective concept. For many people, it simply means "something I don't like". 


Not necessarily (I think I had another reason for my choice) and if it does: So what? 

 


Posted By: The Bearded Bard
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 04:08
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

"Overrated" (or underrated, for that matter) is a subjective concept. For many people, it simply means "something I don't like".
That's what it means to me, but to "something I don't like" I'd add "as much as most others, and don't get what others see (hear) in it that is so great".

So I voted for DSotM here, but could've gone with CttE or ItCotCK as well. Hell, I think none of these four are the perfect masterpieces they're made out to be. Same goes for TaaB, btw.

OK, Dean, I'll take my hat. Wink


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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 04:13
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

^Jeez, just stay out of these threads you all instead of this PC-version of trolling. 

Nope.


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What?


Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 04:16
I will not buy this record, it is scratched.......


Posted By: Imperial Zeppelin
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 05:18
The one that I don't like

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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 06:02
Originally posted by The Bearded Bard The Bearded Bard wrote:

Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

"Overrated" (or underrated, for that matter) is a subjective concept. For many people, it simply means "something I don't like".
That's what it means to me, but to "something I don't like" I'd add "as much as most others, and don't get what others see (hear) in it that is so great".

So I voted for DSotM here, but could've gone with CttE or ItCotCK as well. Hell, I think none of these four are the perfect masterpieces they're made out to be. Same goes for TaaB, btw.

OK, Dean, I'll take my hat. Wink
An album does not need to be a masterpiece to be widely acclaimed. One trait that all four albums share is they have passed the test of time such that they are still held in high regard by many some 40 years after they were released. This is something that latter-day reappraisals cannot take away. 

It cannot be denied that all of these albums have flaws that can be picked over and there is no reason to shield them from criticism. All albums are equal when it comes to criticism, none are beyond reproach and none should be placed upon pedestal to be revered from afar. I have criticised each of these at one time or another and will continue to do so, (some more than others, such is the nature of personal opinion and myopic fandom); I will continue to regard CttE title track as a bit of a mess, "Talk to the Wind" as a plodding ballad, the production on Foxtrot to be dreadful and DSotM is musically too restrained. Only one of these albums would make it onto my personal all-time top 10 of Progressive Rock, but that does not mean that other people who would include one or more of the other three on theirs are wrong.

Because to call them "overrated" is not a criticism of the albums themselves, but of the people who do rate them. Whether my objection to that is seen as "PC trolling" is immaterial, the English language has a largest vocabulary of all modern languages so, as Raff implies, there is no reason to use a word that means one thing when you mean something else.




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What?


Posted By: frankbostick
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 06:03
Very overrated:
Rush - Moving Pictures, Hemispheres, A Farewell To Kings etc.
IQ - The Road Of Bones
Billy Cobham - Spectrum
3RDegree - One & Zeros vol. 1

From the list: a little overrated Genesis - Foxtrot



Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 06:11
^That's the spirit!


Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 06:36
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Because to call them "overrated" is not a criticism of the albums themselves, but of the people who do rate them. Whether my objection to that is seen as "PC trolling" is immaterial, the English language has a largest vocabulary of all modern languages so, as Raff implies, there is no reason to use a word that means one thing when you mean something else.

"People" rate this album too high was my exact approach in my first post so I used the word correctly even though english isn't my first language and a large part of your large vocabulary is missing from my vocabulary. 

I don't think it means "something I don't like" for most. Most here seem to enjoy all four albums just like yourself. You PC-trolls simply underestimate other members intelligence.


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 06:48
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Because to call them "overrated" is not a criticism of the albums themselves, but of the people who do rate them. Whether my objection to that is seen as "PC trolling" is immaterial, the English language has a largest vocabulary of all modern languages so, as Raff implies, there is no reason to use a word that means one thing when you mean something else.

"People" rate this album too high was my exact approach in my first post so I used the word correctly even though english isn't my first language and a large part of your large vocabulary is missing from my vocabulary. 

I don't think it means "something I don't like" for most. Most here seem to enjoy all four albums just like yourself. You PC-trolls simply underestimate other members intelligence.
So by using the word correctly you are being critical of the people who rate the album "too highly"and not of the album itself. That is an arrogance I cannot condone.

As long as we understand were we stand on this we are done here.


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What?


Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 06:51
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

So by using the word correctly you are being critical of the people who rate the album "too highly"and not of the album itself. That is an arrogance I cannot condone.

As long as we understand were we stand on this we are done here.
Yes of course! Who else could rate the album too highly than "people"?

But we're done. Fine by me. 


Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 07:52
I don't think overrated means "albums I don't like."  I think it means "albums that mystify me because I don't understand why the majority of people think they are brilliant when I just think they are good, or even great."
 
I'm not condemning either DSOTM or the people who think it's a fantastic album. I'm just saying, I like it, but have never quite managed to see what all the fuss is about. I find WYWH to be a much more interesting and emotionally satisfying album.


Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 07:53
I do like the raccoon and the sprinkler. I don't think raccoons playing in sprinklers are at all overrated.


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 08:38
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

No vote. There's nothing here that's overrated, over celebrated or over appreciated, IMHO.

An that makes two of us.


Posted By: DDPascalDD
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 08:59
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Because to call them "overrated" is not a criticism of the albums themselves, but of the people who do rate them.


That's exactly what I meant. 
Do you think this album should really be that high acclaimed, for example (!!!) 
in the PA album list? - is the question






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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 09:41
Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

I do like the raccoon and the sprinkler. I don't think raccoons playing in sprinklers are at all overrated.
Agreed


Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 09:52
Originally posted by DDPascalDD DDPascalDD wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Because to call them "overrated" is not a criticism of the albums themselves, but of the people who do rate them.
That's exactly what I meant. 
Do you think this album should really be that high acclaimed, for example (!!!) 
in the PA album list? - is the question
Apparently we shouldn't have opinions about these things. If we do, we are arrogant. The only morally correct way to respond to your question is disgust. 



Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 10:14
^ Maybe we could just have opinions about these things without labeling those who disagree with our opinions in a derogatory manner?
 
For example, I don't think those who find DSOTM brilliant abhorrent in any way. I would merely hope they are articulate enough to explain to me why they think so, because I actually would like to know.


Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 10:19
Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

^ Maybe we could just have opinions about these things without labeling those who disagree with our opinions in a derogatory manner?
 
For example, I don't think those who find DSOTM brilliant abhorrent in any way. I would merely hope they are articulate enough to explain to me why they think so, because I actually would like to know.

But no one has done that. Not in here. Infact no one seem to dislike any of these albums so why would they?Some just feel one or two of them are generally a little OVERRATED and answers politely when someone asks.


Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 10:21
It seemed to me this conversation was crossing the bounds of politeness, and that it was worthwhile trying to steer it back to an actual, you know, discussion.


Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 10:26
Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

It seemed to me this conversation was crossing the bounds of politeness, and that it was worthwhile trying to steer it back to an actual, you know, discussion.
I understood that but your example wasn't fair as the labeling came from the ones who have a problem with the term overrated, not the ones taking part in the discussion. No one has ridiculed anyone's love for either album. Not even close. 


Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 10:28
I believe you introduced the word "disgust" into the conversation.


Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 10:36
^Eh but did you not get the context? It was a parody of sorts of those who contribute with nothing but telling us that they have a problem with others thinking of an album as overrated. It had nothing whatsoever to do with your example.


Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 10:37
Okay. I still like the raccoon.


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 11:07
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I never vote for overrated polls

IMHO Overrated means = Look at those idiots who love what I decided is mediocre.

All these albums have reached their place in the Prog Pantheon, because they deserve it.

I like Foxtrot more, but this doesn't mean I consider the others overrated
 
I don't see how albums that are highly rated over generations of listeners can be considered overrated. The albums in question have received continuous accolades for over 40 years. I would say, rather, that albums like Steven Wilson's The Raven Who Refused To Sing, which folks have massive erections over currently, most likely will not stand the test of time, and in comparison to the albums listed are more likely to fade from public interest in a relatively short time (relative, in prog music, meaning years as opposed to decades). Good albums, but not on par with acknowledged classics.


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to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 11:30
Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

 
For example, I don't think those who find DSOTM brilliant abhorrent in any way. I would merely hope they are articulate enough to explain to me why they think so, because I actually would like to know.
And the converse is of course also true, but "overrated" (especially in its use here) is a weasel-word that absolves the accuser of any requirement to explain themselves or justify their claim. 


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What?


Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 11:33
I don't like KC's debut so i voted that.

Cool


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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.


Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 11:48
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

 
For example, I don't think those who find DSOTM brilliant abhorrent in any way. I would merely hope they are articulate enough to explain to me why they think so, because I actually would like to know.
And the converse is of course also true, but "overrated" (especially in its use here) is a weasel-word that absolves the accuser of any requirement to explain themselves or justify their claim. 
Interestingly, that's exactly the definition the urban dictionary gives for the word "overrated."  I prefer "to have a higher opinion of something than is deserved."
 
Actually, this conversation has enabled me to pinpoint the exact reason I find DSOTM to be overrated.  I find it lacking in honest emotion (besides Waters' standard self-pity, which never feels particularly honest or emotional to me, just an attention-seeking device).  Whereas WYWH focuses on someone else, and even while making extensive use of the first-person singular pronoun, really does provide insight into emotional depths.
 
So this thread has been useful for me, because that's a question that's been bothering me for a long time.


Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 11:58
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

I do like the raccoon and the sprinkler. I don't think raccoons playing in sprinklers are at all overrated.
Agreed
Me too.  Kind of looks like it is playing a harp.


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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 12:05
Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

 
For example, I don't think those who find DSOTM brilliant abhorrent in any way. I would merely hope they are articulate enough to explain to me why they think so, because I actually would like to know.
And the converse is of course also true, but "overrated" (especially in its use here) is a weasel-word that absolves the accuser of any requirement to explain themselves or justify their claim. 
Interestingly, that's exactly the definition the urban dictionary gives for the word "overrated."  I prefer "to have a higher opinion of something than is deserved."
I see no distinction between the two definitions, the latter is just more wordy. What is being criticised is other peoples opinion, not the album itself.

Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

 
Actually, this conversation has enabled me to pinpoint the exact reason I find DSOTM to be overrated.  I find it lacking in honest emotion (besides Waters' standard self-pity, which never feels particularly honest or emotional to me, just an attention-seeking device).  Whereas WYWH focuses on someone else, and even while making extensive use of the first-person singular pronoun, really does provide insight into emotional depths.
And that is a valid criticism and your opinion, I have no problem with any of that. It just doesn't make DSotM "overrated" as a result.


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What?


Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 12:13
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

 
For example, I don't think those who find DSOTM brilliant abhorrent in any way. I would merely hope they are articulate enough to explain to me why they think so, because I actually would like to know.
And the converse is of course also true, but "overrated" (especially in its use here) is a weasel-word that absolves the accuser of any requirement to explain themselves or justify their claim. 
Interestingly, that's exactly the definition the urban dictionary gives for the word "overrated."  I prefer "to have a higher opinion of something than is deserved."
I see no distinction between the two definitions, the latter is just more wordy. What is being criticised is other peoples opinion, not the album itself.

Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

 
Actually, this conversation has enabled me to pinpoint the exact reason I find DSOTM to be overrated.  I find it lacking in honest emotion (besides Waters' standard self-pity, which never feels particularly honest or emotional to me, just an attention-seeking device).  Whereas WYWH focuses on someone else, and even while making extensive use of the first-person singular pronoun, really does provide insight into emotional depths.
And that is a valid criticism and your opinion, I have no problem with any of that. It just doesn't make DSotM "overrated" as a result.
 
a higher opinion than it deserves - yes, I think that does make it overrated.  But of course it's a matter of individual tastes - obviously it's not an issue for others on this thread.
 
without discussions like these, however, I am not sure what's left for this site.  "Here's a new album I listened to today and here is what I ate today and here is what TV show I watched today." If it's all just presenting facts without discussing how people feel about the album, the food and the TV show (and having differences of opinion about them), then there's not much reason to continue to participate.
 
I just don't have an issue with the concept of overrated. In fact, I think it's a valid criticism and a way to get people to actually look at their tastes and choices and perhaps think about why those tastes and choices exist. Defending a stance often helps a person define their opinions beyond "it's my favorite album or band."
 


Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 12:23
^Hear, hear!


Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 13:00

Does anyone but me remember the "Academy of the Overrated" from Woody Allen's Manhattan?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOyw6Q8qWpM" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOyw6Q8qWpM



Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 13:02
Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

Does anyone but me remember the "Academy of the Overrated" from Woody Allen's Manhattan?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOyw6Q8qWpM" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOyw6Q8qWpM

Woody Allen is overrated.


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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 13:04
^oh, I sure do agree with that assessment.


Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 13:05
Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

a higher opinion than it deserves - yes, I think that does make it overrated.  But of course it's a matter of individual tastes - obviously it's not an issue for others on this thread.
But the arbiter of whether it deserves the [widely held] opinion is the person who claims it is "overrated", not all of those who initially gave it the opinion it currently has and I believe that is unfair and unjust. [previously I used the term "an arrogance" which is not the same as calling people "arrogant", but that was probably too strong for the sensibilities of some around here]
Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

without discussions like these, however, I am not sure what's left for this site.  "Here's a new album I listened to today and here is what I ate today and here is what TV show I watched today." If it's all just presenting facts without discussing how people feel about the album, the food and the TV show (and having differences of opinion about them), then there's not much reason to continue to participate.
(as I have said repeatedly) There is nothing wrong with expressing an opinion, there is nothing wrong in criticising an album, this site (not just the forum) is a review site, subjective opinion is its raison d'ętre. I don't have an issue with people criticising an album, I have an issue with the connotation that: because an opinion does not agree with the consensus then the consensus is wrong.
Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

I just don't have an issue with the concept of overrated. In fact, I think it's a valid criticism and a way to get people to actually look at their tastes and choices and perhaps think about why those tastes and choices exist. Defending a stance often helps a person define their opinions beyond "it's my favorite album or band."
I do have an issue with the concept, and its vernacular usage, precisely because it is not a valid criticism, it is a challenged others to defend their opinion. 


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What?


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 13:07
Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

^oh, I sure do agree with that assessment.
 
Unless, of course, one likes to see Woody play the same wise-cracking, sexually-frustrated Jewish nebbish in every film since the 60s. LOL


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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 13:11
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

a higher opinion than it deserves - yes, I think that does make it overrated.  But of course it's a matter of individual tastes - obviously it's not an issue for others on this thread.
But the arbiter of whether it deserves the [widely held] opinion is the person who claims it is "overrated", not all of those who initially gave it the opinion it currently has and I believe that is unfair and unjust. [previously I used the term "an arrogance" which is not the same as calling people "arrogant", but that was probably too strong for the sensibilities of some around here]
Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

without discussions like these, however, I am not sure what's left for this site.  "Here's a new album I listened to today and here is what I ate today and here is what TV show I watched today." If it's all just presenting facts without discussing how people feel about the album, the food and the TV show (and having differences of opinion about them), then there's not much reason to continue to participate.
(as I have said repeatedly) There is nothing wrong with expressing an opinion, there is nothing wrong in criticising an album, this site (not just the forum) is a review site, subjective opinion is its raison d'ętre. I don't have an issue with people criticising an album, I have an issue with the connotation that: because an opinion does not agree with the consensus then the consensus is wrong.
Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

I just don't have an issue with the concept of overrated. In fact, I think it's a valid criticism and a way to get people to actually look at their tastes and choices and perhaps think about why those tastes and choices exist. Defending a stance often helps a person define their opinions beyond "it's my favorite album or band."
I do have an issue with the concept, and its vernacular usage, precisely because it is not a valid criticism, it is a challenged others to defend their opinion. 
 
I don't see anything wrong with challenging a consensus (in fact I believe in challenging all consensuses, if that is the correct plural of the word) and I also don't see any issue with challenging others to defend their opinion - particularly on this website, where often people have a "I said so therefore it must be true" attitude.
 
I certainly do understand your point of view, however, which is why it might make sense to avoid any thread with "overrated" in the title, just as I avoid any thread with "tv show" in the title, because I know in advance I couldn't possibly care less. This seems to be a concept that sets you off, and life is far too short to court needless irritation.


Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 13:12
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

^oh, I sure do agree with that assessment.
 
Unless, of course, one likes to see Woody play the same wise-cracking, sexually-frustrated Jewish nebbish in every film since the 60s. LOL
 
it got old many, many years ago, although I have trouble resisting Annie Hall if it happens to turn up.


Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 13:13
Are you kidding me, fella? I find all of them stellar cornerstones of classic prog rock. Come up with something else.

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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno


Posted By: Michael678
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 13:45
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

No vote. There's nothing here that's overrated, over celebrated or over appreciated, IMHO.

Agreed, mate!


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Progrockdude


Posted By: Skalla-Grim
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 14:30
For me, "overrated" is totally different from "I don't like it".

I like Dark Side of the Moon very much as a pop/rock album, but when people call it a masterpiece of prog, it is surely overrated. It sounds great, but it lacks complexity.  


Posted By: gloriousgoldfish
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 14:40
Originally posted by Skalla-Grim Skalla-Grim wrote:

For me, "overrated" is totally different from "I don't like it".

I like Dark Side of the Moon very much as a pop/rock album, but when people call it a masterpiece of prog, it is surely overrated. It sounds great, but it lacks complexity.  
 
I agree to a certain extent. While I still believe Dark Side should be considered progressive rock I think it is a bit overrated in that sense (compared to other prog albums) It's not to say it is not an amazing album BUT just compared to other prog albums imo it is a tad overrated. Having that said I don't really like the word overrated as it could imply that something is not worth as much or is not as great as some might say. At the end of the day something that is overrated could only mean that it has achieved some sort of excellence and/or popularity. All the albums are great and masterpieces in their own right. But I guess if I really had to choose one it would have to be Dark Side, only because people who have probably never heard one song from the album sport that triangle on their chest like it's a fashion statement.


Posted By: wilmon91
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 14:44
I vote "Dark side of the moon".

And the poll doesn't say that any of the albums are overrated. Only which is most overrated in relation to the others. Which is similar to asking "which is the most worthless metal? Gold or silver?" (but they're not worthless!??!!?!!?)
"Which is the tiniest planet? Jupiter or Saturn?" (They are huge?)

It's just a play with words, it's the comparison that is relevant. So the question is really:

"Which is the album that have received the most sufficient amount of positive acclaim in relation to its quality by people in general".


Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 17:32
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

No vote. There's nothing here that's overrated, over celebrated or over appreciated, IMHO.
 
^this
 
Smile


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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin


Posted By: Follix
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 17:55
To me it can't be DSOTM because it's the best album of all time (personal taste, don't hate)... Then I enjoy ItCotCK a lot and Foxtrot has Supper's Ready on it... Therefore I vote for CttE


Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 21:19
Originally posted by Follix Follix wrote:

To me it can't be DSOTM because it's the best album of all time (personal taste, don't hate)... Then I enjoy ItCotCK a lot and Foxtrot has Supper's Ready on it... Therefore I vote for CttE
 
I would completely invert the order (on scale of least overrated to most: CTTE first, ItCotCK, then Foxtrot, then DSOTM) but I think we all agree that every opinion is (a) different and (b) legitimate.


Posted By: Follix
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 21:47
Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

Originally posted by Follix Follix wrote:

To me it can't be DSOTM because it's the best album of all time (personal taste, don't hate)... Then I enjoy ItCotCK a lot and Foxtrot has Supper's Ready on it... Therefore I vote for CttE
I think we all agree that every opinion is (a) different and (b) legitimate.


Yes I agree, I mean I get why people vote for DSOTM because it's by far the most known album of these 4 outside of the Prog world. Even tho I wouldn't even consider it ''prog'' (Meddle, WYWH and Animals are prog, DSOTM not so much...) Still if an album from Pink Floyd is overrated, it's got be The Wall. Remove 2 songs from that album and it's borderline mediocre.


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 22:00
Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

 
I certainly do understand your point of view, however, which is why it might make sense to avoid any thread with "overrated" in the title, just as I avoid any thread with "tv show" in the title, because I know in advance I couldn't possibly care less. This seems to be a concept that sets you off, and life is far too short to court needless irritation.

No, it's not the same.

I avoid any thread with the name Gentle Giant on it, because I don't like Gentle Giant, but there are many people who love this band and i can't do nothing else but respect their taste despite my disagreement, on the other hand, would be wrong to say "All the Gentle Giant fans are idiots because they rate this mediocre band so high".

But the word overrated implies

1.- Most people love this album/band, so they rate it high.
2.- I hate this band album, so I rate it low. (Up to this point is OK)
3.- The rating is wrong, my rating is right
4.- I'm right, all of them are wrong because In say it.

So you are criticizing everybody else's opinion.



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Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 22:50
Originally posted by Follix Follix wrote:

Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

Originally posted by Follix Follix wrote:

To me it can't be DSOTM because it's the best album of all time (personal taste, don't hate)... Then I enjoy ItCotCK a lot and Foxtrot has Supper's Ready on it... Therefore I vote for CttE
I think we all agree that every opinion is (a) different and (b) legitimate.


Yes I agree, I mean I get why people vote for DSOTM because it's by far the most known album of these 4 outside of the Prog world. Even tho I wouldn't even consider it ''prog'' (Meddle, WYWH and Animals are prog, DSOTM not so much...) Still if an album from Pink Floyd is overrated, it's got be The Wall. Remove 2 songs from that album and it's borderline mediocre.
 
I agree with your assessment of the Wall, but besides Comfortably Numb, what is the other song on it you rate more highly?


Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 22:51
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

 
I certainly do understand your point of view, however, which is why it might make sense to avoid any thread with "overrated" in the title, just as I avoid any thread with "tv show" in the title, because I know in advance I couldn't possibly care less. This seems to be a concept that sets you off, and life is far too short to court needless irritation.

No, it's not the same.

I avoid any thread with the name Gentle Giant on it, because I don't like Gentle Giant, but there are many people who love this band and i can't do nothing else but respect their taste despite my disagreement, on the other hand, would be wrong to say "All the Gentle Giant fans are idiots because they rate this mediocre band so high".

But the word overrated implies

1.- Most people love this album/band, so they rate it high.
2.- I hate this band album, so I rate it low. (Up to this point is OK)
3.- The rating is wrong, my rating is right
4.- I'm right, all of them are wrong because In say it.

So you are criticizing everybody else's opinion.

 
No, that's not what I mean, but I don't feel like explaining what I mean for the fifth time, so I'm going to let it go.


Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 23:03
Foxtrot, with DSOTM second.  The other two really are too good to be overrated


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 23:24
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I never vote for overrated polls

IMHO Overrated means = Look at those idiots who love what I decided is mediocre.

All these albums have reached their place in the Prog Pantheon, because they deserve it.

I like Foxtrot more, but this doesn't mean I consider the others overrated


Exactly what I think too. Except that for me Foxtrot wouldn't be my favourite choice from this albums.


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 23:40
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I never vote for overrated polls

IMHO Overrated means = Look at those idiots who love what I decided is mediocre.

All these albums have reached their place in the Prog Pantheon, because they deserve it.

I like Foxtrot more, but this doesn't mean I consider the others overrated


Exactly what I think too. Except that for me Foxtrot wouldn't be my favourite choice from this albums.

Of course, from the four ITCOTKC is my least favourite.

But still is a masterpiece


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Posted By: TheLionOfPrague
Date Posted: September 12 2015 at 23:42
Originally posted by Follix Follix wrote:

To me it can't be DSOTM because it's the best album of all time 

Agreed.

But I can see why some might go with it since it's the "least" prog. As a prog album there might be better. As a music album, for me it always was and always will be the greatest album of all time. I doubt I'll ever listen to something that will make me change my mind. 


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I shook my head and smiled a whisper knowing all about the place


Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: September 13 2015 at 03:36
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

 
I certainly do understand your point of view, however, which is why it might make sense to avoid any thread with "overrated" in the title, just as I avoid any thread with "tv show" in the title, because I know in advance I couldn't possibly care less. This seems to be a concept that sets you off, and life is far too short to court needless irritation.

No, it's not the same.

I avoid any thread with the name Gentle Giant on it, because I don't like Gentle Giant, but there are many people who love this band and i can't do nothing else but respect their taste despite my disagreement, on the other hand, would be wrong to say "All the Gentle Giant fans are idiots because they rate this mediocre band so high".

But the word overrated implies

1.- Most people love this album/band, so they rate it high.
2.- I hate this band album, so I rate it low. (Up to this point is OK)
3.- The rating is wrong, my rating is right
4.- I'm right, all of them are wrong because In say it.

So you are criticizing everybody else's opinion.

This is basically what people do all the time. What's the problem? Do we really have to tell the world that its our subjective opinion every time we have one? If you tell Gentle Giant-fans that you don't enjoy their music and why instead of coming across like a complete a****le, you'll be alright (and entitled to your opinion).    


Posted By: Floydoid
Date Posted: September 13 2015 at 03:43
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

IMHO Overrated means = Look at those idiots who love what I decided is mediocre.

All these albums have reached their place in the Prog Pantheon, because they deserve it.


I couldn't agree more.


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'We're going to need a bigger swear jar.'


Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: September 13 2015 at 03:54
Originally posted by Floydoid Floydoid wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

IMHO Overrated means = Look at those idiots who love what I decided is mediocre.


I couldn't agree more.
You're such dullards. Is this what you think if or when someone talks about Michael Jackson's masterpiece Thriller as well?


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: September 13 2015 at 10:03
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by Floydoid Floydoid wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

IMHO Overrated means = Look at those idiots who love what I decided is mediocre.


I couldn't agree more.
You're such dullards. Is this what you think if or when someone talks about Michael Jackson's masterpiece Thriller as well?
I do not care for Thriller from a musical personal preference standpoint. I didn't when it came out, and I don't now; however, if one is objective, one can see that it is an exquisitely produced piece of pop and an important document of the 80s, integrating black dance music with rock in a way that allowed Michael Jackson to capture a huge audience that crossed racial lines. From a pop and historical standpoint, it would be considered a "masterpiece", although for my tastes I think that word is bandied about far too frequently.
 
A "dullard" as you presume in your trollish manner, would be more of a musical bigot who cannot see beyond his limited musical horizon and bash everything outside his little world. A dullard would not be objective.
 


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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: September 13 2015 at 10:16
^I'm tired of reading all these pompous "I just dropped in to let you know that my moral standards are too high to take part in this discussion - except for telling you that I won't have any part in it". 

I didn't start the name calling and labeling and I do think "your" contributions here are as predictably boring as they are unnecessary. How hard is it to just leave these kind of topics alone to those of us with questionable moral standards?
 




Posted By: Follix
Date Posted: September 13 2015 at 10:18
Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

Originally posted by Follix Follix wrote:

Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

Originally posted by Follix Follix wrote:

To me it can't be DSOTM because it's the best album of all time (personal taste, don't hate)... Then I enjoy ItCotCK a lot and Foxtrot has Supper's Ready on it... Therefore I vote for CttE
I think we all agree that every opinion is (a) different and (b) legitimate.


Yes I agree, I mean I get why people vote for DSOTM because it's by far the most known album of these 4 outside of the Prog world. Even tho I wouldn't even consider it ''prog'' (Meddle, WYWH and Animals are prog, DSOTM not so much...) Still if an album from Pink Floyd is overrated, it's got be The Wall. Remove 2 songs from that album and it's borderline mediocre.
 
I agree with your assessment of the Wall, but besides Comfortably Numb, what is the other song on it you rate more highly?


Hey You I find the intro particularly hypnotizing but I agree that Comfortably Numb is easily the best song on the album.


Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: September 13 2015 at 10:27
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

^I'm tired of reading all these pompous "I just dropped in to let you know that my moral standards are too high to take part in this discussion - except for telling you that I won't have any part in it". 
 
I didn't start the name calling and labeling and I do think "your" contributions here are as predictably boring as they are unnecessary. How hard is it to just leave these kind of topics alone to those of us with questionable moral standards?
I'm still disputing the concept that participating in this thread identifies me as someone possessing questionable moral standards but otherwise I find myself in sympathy with this comment.


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: September 13 2015 at 10:28
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

^I'm tired of reading all these pompous "I just dropped in to let you know that my moral standards are too high to take part in this discussion - except for telling you that I won't have any part in it". 

I didn't start the name calling and labeling and I do think "your" contributions here are as predictably boring as they are unnecessary. How hard is it to just leave these kind of topics alone to those of us with questionable moral standards?
 
I will reply to whichever thread I choose, with or without a 'by your leave' from you, sir and/or madam. If the topic is asinine, I will remark so. I am not striving for some sort of moral superiority, I am merely questioning a few posters' objectivity, or the lack thereof.
 
In regards to your recent contributions, let's just say you're more fit to follow circus animals with a broom and shovel. Consider being a carnie; the big top needs you.


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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: September 13 2015 at 10:28
Originally posted by Follix Follix wrote:

Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

I agree with your assessment of the Wall, but besides Comfortably Numb, what is the other song on it you rate more highly?


Hey You I find the intro particularly hypnotizing but I agree that Comfortably Numb is easily the best song on the album.
 
Those are the only two songs I like as well. 


Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: September 13 2015 at 10:42
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

I will reply to whichever thread I choose, with or without a 'by your leave' from you, sir and/or madam. If the topic is asinine, I will remark so. I am not striving for some sort of moral superiority, I am merely questioning a few posters' objectivity, or the lack thereof.

What? Are some members not objective in their opinions here? We certainly can't have any of that.  


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: September 13 2015 at 10:50
Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

Originally posted by Follix Follix wrote:

Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

I agree with your assessment of the Wall, but besides Comfortably Numb, what is the other song on it you rate more highly?


Hey You I find the intro particularly hypnotizing but I agree that Comfortably Numb is easily the best song on the album.
 
Those are the only two songs I like as well. 
I like several songs from The Wall. Offhand, I think "Mother" and "Goodbye Blue Sky" are fantastic, as are "Comfortably Numb" and "Run Like Hell"; but I think the oratory and incidental music drags in some sections and gets far too Watersian, which is how I feel about Gabriel and The Lamb. A common occurrence when a musical idea is stretched over two albums. That is not say that there isn't any transcendent work on either album, there certainly is.
 
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

What? Are some members not objective in their opinions here? We certainly can't have any of that.  
I always wonder at the sort of person who considers objectivity to be a negative.


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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: September 13 2015 at 10:53
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by Floydoid Floydoid wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

IMHO Overrated means = Look at those idiots who love what I decided is mediocre.


I couldn't agree more.
You're such dullards. Is this what you think if or when someone talks about Michael Jackson's masterpiece Thriller as well?


Of course...In the Pop genre, he received the consideration he deserved, even when I hate his music.

Please pal control your manners, I haven't insulted you, so don't insult me.


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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: September 13 2015 at 10:57
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

What? Are some members not objective in their opinions here? We certainly can't have any of that.  
I always wonder at the sort of person who considers objectivity to be a negative.
Keep wondering because I never said I did. Do you consider your own opinion on these albums to be objective?



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