Spamming for Reviews?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Site News, Newbies, Help and Improvements
Forum Name: Help us improve the site
Forum Description: Help us improve the forums, and the site as a whole
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=101583
Printed Date: February 25 2025 at 06:53
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Topic: Spamming for Reviews?
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Subject: Spamming for Reviews?
Date Posted: March 06 2015 at 17:49
I've noticed over the last 12 months or so a marked increase in the number of unsolicited PMs I get asking me to review a new release. I've also noticed from those reviews on the front page that disclose such info, this phenomenon is clearly widespread across the whole membership. I always flatly refuse such requests (not because I occupy any moral high ground, but just cos I'd feel bad giving a one star flogging to something that I received as a 'freebie') I'd be interested to hear how the members feel about being asked for reviews in this fashion: Does it undermine or compromise our objectivity? Should we just treat it as a compliment to PA's credibility in the Prog World and acknowledge that marketing and entrepreneurial zeal = internet hosted enthusiasm? If you were an aspiring artist or record company, why would you target an amateur music appreciation site c/f a professional publication to garner reviews? ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: March 06 2015 at 18:00
Well I get a fair share of requests and I only accept it if it fits with my core specialty. I have refused some metal ,extreme/tech requests, because I only purchase what fits my tastes. From various reactions, PA and some of its selected members seem to enjoy a fair amount of compliments from those who wish to belong to PA and for whom it is considered as a huge leap forward into " a community". Frankly, some of our reviewers here are world class writers, each having a following within and outside of PA. I read chicapah's reviews and its better than anything I have ever read in a "professional" publication! Or Conor Fynes, or Tcat or Lazland or Aussie-Byrd-Brother (etc...)and many more here of their ilk. Your scribblings aren't too shabby either, Iain.   ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: March 06 2015 at 18:01
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When I was still on Facebook, I was plagued by people asking me to review their music (sometimes referred by mutual friends). On a few occasions, I honestly told them that their music was not my cup of tea, therefore I would not be able to do it justice. Even though the majority of the artists whose music I have reviewed have been quite nice, I have had a couple of unpleasant brushes with people who expected me to write that their album was a masterpiece, and were disappointed by my lukewarm (though always respectful) review. This has put paid to any desire I might have had to review stuff that wasn't up my street. Now that I have come back to PA, I have to admit that I often refrain from responding to such messages - even if I normally hate being rude. Unfortunately, the truth is the scene is oversaturated, and artists are desperate for any kind of exposure. Professional mags dedicated to prog - with the exception of the execrable Prog - do not exist any longer, so it's up to amateur fanzines/webzines like ours to give those people the exposure they crave. All the prog websites I know (and I have collaborated with a few) receive far more promos than they can handle, at least in a reasonable amount of time. Edit: I forgot to mention that some people have asked me to review their music by contacting me on my blog, especially now that Facebook is out of the equation. The last instance was no more than three days ago. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: March 06 2015 at 20:27
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^^ thank you for your kind words Thomas ^ thanks for your honesty Raff. An interesting post. You clearly have more experience of what internet presence Prog currently has than I. Given your description of the current market, I can understand why you might feel we should nurture and promote new artists on PA. However, I'm not entirely sure that's ever been a stated function of the site. Perhaps this is something that needs to be addressed or discussed amongst the members? -------------
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Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: March 07 2015 at 03:49
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I have absolutely no problem in being contacted and in reviewing albums. The reason for this is I don't receive a vast amount of requests - if I did then my response might have been different. Also, I don't promise a return date for the review since I know it is going to take some time (but will be there eventually). So my answers to Iain's questions would be: a - No b - Yes c - Not sure how many more "professional" sites/media are out there that can pose reasonably reliable reviews on progressive rock. People on this site can be judged on their reviews/knowledge/professionalism so we are an easy and transparrent lot. |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: March 07 2015 at 05:09
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^I largely agree with this. Always remember that it's perfectly alright to turn down requests for reviews. Sure, I've too experienced bands who almost shovel their music down your throat - again and again asking for a review, but then again that makes it all the more easy thanking no to the request....at least in my experience. PA can be a lot of different things to different people. Chit chat forum, archive, promotional vehicle or dating service - you name em. As long as people don't mention Celine Dion (or act like sophomoric squid) , they're very welcome. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: March 07 2015 at 05:32
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Oh and in addition to that: Yes Iain, I do think that in some cases this compromises objectivity, but then again, objectivity was never one of music's defining qualities. I certainly don't think we can conjure up any rules or regulations to prevent people from doing this - we'd just be pushing people into the shadows making this whole thing all the more obscure and difficult to keep taps on. As for my own thoughts on this: If you consider yourself a real music fan, you should also be honest about the music you listen to - especially when reviewing it. -ALSO when you're not bowled over by the product. I've had to write a couple of less than sympathetic reviews based on albums that were sent to me, and I felt really bad at the time, but at least I offered up an honest opinion......even when the music was poor and the dude responsible of it genuinely nice. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: March 07 2015 at 06:39
All that seems entirely reasonable (apart from the earlier 'sophomoric squid' bit, coffee is not to be snorted straight from the jar David  ) I agree we don't need to get ourselves hamstrung with yet more rules and regulations but given this an amateur site, wouldn't it make sense to divulge in such a review that your copy was provided by the artist? I'm always gonna lend more credence to a review where the reviewer has spent their hard earned cash on any given release. Yes I know, it means I'm condemned to stalk the earth constantly second guessing if a reviewer chose not to reveal the source of their review copy. (That's maybe just my issue to deal with but don't we owe it to visitors to let the reader make an informed choice) I'm not a 'fan' of anything, just a cantankerous, grudging and confrontational critter but I also like to imagine is discerning, objective and also ridiculously over qualified on the honesty front...-------------
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Guldbamsen wrote:Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: March 07 2015 at 06:46
^ What if the reviewer wanted to spend his/her hard earned cash, but the artist offered a copy  |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 07 2015 at 06:50
you pay them anyway. I damn near got in a fistfight with a artist recently who tossed me (literally  ) me a copy of their latest and when I later tried to slip him a Andrew Jackson for it, he declined, so I went bad Micky on him and he finally relented. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: March 07 2015 at 06:51
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Well then we're on the same page (bar the squid reference which I still stand by). I have to admit that I, on a couple of occasions, have forgotten to mention that my review was based on a promotional gift  ......................but I'm pretty sure those rare instances have been reviews of albums I would've bought with my own dough anyway.Edit: This post was directed at Iain.
------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 07 2015 at 06:53
no it never has been. But that never stops us, nor should it, from championing groups personally that we think the knuckleheads should be checking out. The site itself is a different beast. It plays no favorites. We catalog them. That is all it has ever done, all it will ever do. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: March 07 2015 at 06:54
In the case of uber spammers Corvus Stone, I was offered a free copy but declined. Yet here's the rub, ended up buying the album (the second one) after hearing and loving the the track 'Boots For Hire' via You Tube. I haven't reviewed the album yet but would consider it a solid but rather derivative 3 star 'retroprogressive homage' effort. Caveat Emptor doesn't translate easily into 'let the recipient of a freebie beware' -------------
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: March 07 2015 at 06:55
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PA is an exception among prog websites in that people usually review albums they have bought themselves. On most other sites, people review promos sent by the artists or their labels. Those promos (which nowadays are often in digital format, but not always) are generally sent to one or two people who will make them available to the reviewing "staff". So, specifying in a review that the album was provided by the band/artist would sound very odd to the majority of readers who are familiar with the practices employed by other sites. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: March 07 2015 at 07:03
Once again Raff, I accede to your knowledge of practices and behaviors on other Prog sites but this is probably the main reason I continue to visit only PA i.e. the very idea of 'staff' being distributed this month's promos for review I find frankly, repellant. -------------
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: March 07 2015 at 07:05
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I personally prefer reviewers who write about albums they've stumbled across flipping through old vinyl in record stores or stuff they've found online in some weird crevice of the internet - reviews that reveal something about the person's journey in music. Doesn't have to be included in the review per se, but when the writer has built up a proper amount of them, you see a pattern emerging. That's why I keep asking people to look at the reviewer and his/her words instead of the sports part of the equation ie ratings and rankings. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 07 2015 at 07:06
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oh man.. need I say it. TORMAN MAXT!!!! ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: March 07 2015 at 07:18
Well, this is how a lot of people - especially before the advent of Bandcamp, Progstreaming and their ilk - were able to discover new music without spending a fortune. Speaking from a personal point of view, I have discovered quite a few gems through my activity as an "official" reviewer for a number of prog websites, and I have helped some excellent bands and artists gain some well-deserved exposure. It was a mutually beneficial arrangement, and I am very sorry that, at the moment, personal circumstances prevent me from continuing. I certainly don't see anything repellant in that, but each to his/her own. |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: March 07 2015 at 07:28
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If it's something the person really wants to, then why not? I know a fair few guys who do this because it gets them closer to the action. They (hopefully) get to see and talk to up and coming musicians, and everything that gets them just a tiny pace closer to the engine room will have them twitching like salamanders on a Parkinson's patient. I get it though. I really do. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 07 2015 at 07:39
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yeah. That is the part I have enjoyed the most, riding proudly on Raff's coatails, is getting to meet the musicians in person. Wonderul people.Of course I am nothing more than 'Raff's husband' but once they find out that I am the one fun to hang with and get sh*t-faced with they naturally gravitate to me, not my more famous half. However the best of those I've found are not looking for plaudtis and back-slapping but good critical thought. One the of the bands Raff and I have got closest with actually thanked us for NOT liking an album of theirs and explaining why. I think they came to like us, even respect us more, for simply telling it as it was. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: March 07 2015 at 07:39
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For me, reviewing has meant forming strong bonds with some musicians - something that has been invaluable for a middle-aged person relocating to another country. Though having my name acknowledged in a CD's liner notes, or links to my reviews posted on band/artist websites is very flattering, it goes well beyond that. Knowing what struggles and dedication are behind each of those CDs, I am glad I have been able to do something to help those people, who are not celebrities or anything of the sort, but ordinary people with families, day jobs and all the other issues we know all too well. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 07 2015 at 07:46
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^ well said ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: March 07 2015 at 07:51
Did you divulge your relationship with the poster before responding? (that's just a joke from the clearly uninformed 'knuckleheads') -------------
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: March 07 2015 at 10:41
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I get a few requests asking me to review music. Not as many as I used to, but still a few. Raff is absolutely spot on about the nature of the business. Ours is genuinely one of the very few major outlets where the reviewers actually buy a copy of the music they are writing about. That is what makes this site so special. We are fans, first and foremost. I do not agree to review all of the requests I get, but I do agree where I have formed a bond with the act, or genuinely feel I will enjoy the music, and provide a useful service in helping such an act gain much needed publicity, and I do not think there is anything wrong with that. I do, though, always make it very clear to readers that I am reviewing a promotional copy given to me, because at least that way, the reader can be satisfied that I am honest in my endeavours. I hope so, anyway! There is a fine line sometimes between a sort of spamming load of requests sent out for a blanket coverage of reviews, and a band genuinely thinking the reviewer will like what he or she hears and contacting them accordingly, and the longer you are on the site, the better you get at identifying such requests. As with Thomas, I would say that any tech extreme metal or far out fusion act would, really, be wasting mine and their time by contacting me. I have got far better in recent years in saying, if I would not buy it to try myself, then I will not get a freebie simply to review and give publicity. Such is not my role here. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: March 07 2015 at 11:32
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I get lots of these requests and I must say I ignore them, especially the ones who are more aggressive and send me the same request over and over. I understand why they do, but I have no intention of accepting freebies because I know it means they in turn expect a positive review in a timely manner. Can't do it. However, the whole reason I continue with any of this is that I enjoy giving that exposure to the most obscure of artists. There are a few artists on this site for whom my review was the only one....and may ever be. But I like the process to happen naturally. I like to stumble across something, and write about it if I feel moved by it. My days of trying to cover all the bases of a scene/genre are over. ------------- ...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell" |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 07 2015 at 13:19
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^ oh the problems of the good reviewers. The trick is to be a sh*tty reviewer.. and see how few review requests you get  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: March 07 2015 at 13:23
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Nonsense though, Mick. You've written some pretty awesome reviews as I recall. Lots of passion and wit injected in there....kinda like Iain's reviews....I really enjoy reading both of yours ------------- ...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell" |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: March 07 2015 at 22:39
------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 08 2015 at 07:56
you are too kind Jim. I always cringe when I read them. The harshest critics and hardest to please... are always ourselves. I have a whole hell of a lot of respect for you and others that do it.. and do it well. It is a talent. Just one I don't feel I have unfortunately. Oh well... I suppose my talents lie elsewhere..------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |