Should PA have a Psych Rock Lounge?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
Forum Description: Discuss bands and albums classified as Proto-Prog and Prog-Related
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=100643
Printed Date: December 18 2024 at 12:58
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Should PA have a Psych Rock Lounge?
Posted By: SteveG
Subject: Should PA have a Psych Rock Lounge?
Date Posted: December 13 2014 at 15:26
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Due to it's closeness to progressive rock, should PA have a Psychedelic Rock Lounge where bands like the 13 Floor Elevators, Country Joe and even modern Psych bands like The Tubes and The Flaming Lips could have a forum? Could/should psych rock have it's own genre listing in PA for these types of band's albums?
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Replies:
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: December 13 2014 at 21:39
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The question is would it draw enough interest and longterm
discussion. There is no doubt the close familial bonds
between psych and
prog, the two often indistinguishable up until about 1970 or
so. Not
sure if that merits a Classic Psychedelia Lounge or not. I'm
not sure, maybe. It could draw some attention for
awhile but I'm guessing for most prog lovers, Psych is a funny and dusty throwback
that may've spawned the Prog they love but doesn't drive a lot of
discussion in these woods. Certainly not for those under forty. As for a Classic Psych subgenre, seems to me standard psych-rock was a form of pop music (Airplane, Cream, Janis, Doors, Hendrix, all big chart-toppers), and as an attitude had leaked into almost everything (Donovan, Beach Boys, etc.), making it a better candidate for a rock 'n roll website than a prog one. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: December 13 2014 at 22:42
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For the first question you can just create an "Official Psych Appreciation" thread if you wish and try to get it off the ground. Would be pretty much the same thing as an official lounge but you are able to do it without involving management. As to getting a sub added I don't think it will happen. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: December 14 2014 at 01:08
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No and No. Threads in general music are adequate. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: December 14 2014 at 08:41
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PA should have that Psych Rock lounge imo, because prog is a child of that classic Psychedelia. Also, PA should have a separate section for the "classic psychedelia / space rock". And that current section should be renamed as "progressive psychedelia /space rock". |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: December 14 2014 at 08:55
I agree. Have a lounge for Psychedelics, then you need a dedicated lounge for classical music. Then folk music. Then you end up with a Hank Williams Jr. Lounge because somebody did a Kevin Baconesque six degrees of separation between Hank and Robert Fripp. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Dean wrote:Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: December 14 2014 at 09:46
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Another sub genre? Another one? No. No. No. No. Just in case it isn't clear enough.........NO ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: December 14 2014 at 10:33
This is often postulated. But it's just that - a postulate. So, 'NO' and 'NO WAY'. |
Posted By: Rivertree
Date Posted: December 14 2014 at 10:38
a lounge would not necessarily mean a new sub genre if the thread is intended to open a door for another subgenre (as this was openend in the http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=64" rel="nofollow - Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge section) or to change/extend the genre definition - I would not agree though. such a lounge would be placed in the http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=41" rel="nofollow - General Music Discussions section at best  ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Rivertree" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: December 14 2014 at 10:42
I respect your opinion, but then the current section should be renamed as "progressive psychedelia / space rock". |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: December 14 2014 at 12:05
 ------------- What? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: December 14 2014 at 12:11
There is absolutely no point in doing this. The sub-genre name is Psychedelic/Space Rock - the fact that is Psychedelic Progressive Rock is implicit. If further clarification is required this is also stated in the sub-genre description: "Psychedelic progressive rock music may contain the elements previously described in varying combinations, but the artistic perspective of progressive rock is another factor. Some psychedelic rock bands stuck to the mid 1960's beat rock style in purist form, not partaking in the experimental development of the impressionistic possibilities of psychedelic rock music others spearheaded." ------------- What? |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: December 14 2014 at 14:15
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Very good, Gents. You've all given me the answer I expected (except for Atavachron, Finnforrest and Sventonio) without asking the pertinent question: Why? PA's Psych/Space rock site excludes key psychedelic groups that range from the 13 Floor Elevators, Country Joe and The Fish, The Red Crayola, Lost And Found, The Golden Dawn, The Bubble Puppy, Silver Apples and about two dozen more nascent and influential psychedelic groups that I could list. PA's So called 'Pysch/Space' site is for groups that are just that: Floyd, Hawkwind and their clones. The old rule adage goes "When something isn't broken, don't fix it" That old adage does not apply to PA's current Psych/Space Rock sub genre. Obvious key Psychedelic Rock groups should have been or need to be included. If the criteria to admit them is flawed, out dated and just plain silly (which it seems), then fix it or start a new sub genre. That would be the point for doing this. It's too bad we could not have a had a back and forth discussion about this, but I'm not surprised by this anymore. |
Posted By: LearsFool
Date Posted: December 14 2014 at 14:26
| Good news, then, is that Silver Apples are under Proto. I would say it would be a bit contentious to promote them to Psych, though, since they are also the first prog electronic group. |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: December 14 2014 at 14:40
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Call this thread the Psych Lounge, and have your way with it. As often, better to apologise later if your wrong than to spend months of debate to get approval. :) ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: December 14 2014 at 14:52
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: December 14 2014 at 15:19
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: December 14 2014 at 15:20
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Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: December 14 2014 at 15:46
Ok... I missed the second question for some reason. If the line below is accurate, then why not just propose these bands to the Psych/Space team?
As long as they have 'rock' applied to their music, they should be headed for acceptance. Only if non-rock bands show up it becomes different - which would lead to the question that also came up in the Miles Davis discussion this weekend: why is PA about progressive rock, and not about progressive music?
------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: December 14 2014 at 16:06
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The problem therein is when do you stop? Wu-Tang Clan were hugely progressive. Just like Sarah Vaughan, Sun Ra, Funkadelic, Bob Dylan, The Stooges, The Fall, NWA, Edith Piaf, Neil Young, The Velvet Underground, Beethoven, Django Reinhardt, Cocteau Twins, RZA/Gravediggaz/Bobby Digital, Stockhausen, Varese, Hallucinogen, Sphongle, Napalm Death, Muddy Waters, etc etc etc. and it never stops. We end up like RYM in the end, because going full 'progressive music archives' also means that we can't pick and chose. It would entail all kinds of styles ranging from RnB to Grindcore to trance to classical. RYM here we come! Just because a band isn't listed on here though doesn't mean that we can't appreciate it and converse about it's aural bliss. That's what general music discussions are for ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: December 14 2014 at 16:13
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Isn't that in line with what I wrote? As long as it's 'rock', we can take it in or consider it. Otherwise, we don't - unless we change to 'progressive music' and end up in the mess you describe. RYM could be different - it is possible to put different front-ends (sites) next to each other that share content. At some point I thought Max had a vision like that, when he started Metal Music Archives and Jazz Music Archive next to this site. It would've been great to be able to put everything in the right genre, publish it at the right site and have a single database behind it all to redirect people to the right place. Maybe one day... ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: December 14 2014 at 16:19
Sorry Angelo, that post wasn't directed at you even if I used it as a starting point  ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: December 14 2014 at 16:21
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Oh, I wasn't critising you, just looking for confirmation that we were thinking in the same direction. ;-) And yes, you should blush, you're bra hasn't seen a laundry basket in weeks now.  ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: December 14 2014 at 16:22
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It's a Christmas thing. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: December 14 2014 at 16:30
 On that bomb shell I say 'Goodnight to you, sir!' ------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: December 14 2014 at 16:36
Good, surprises are seldom welcome and back and forth internet discussions rarely ever resolve. You failed to ask us why we say "No" We are not here to catalogue all that is Psychedelic Rock, that is not our function, mandate, raison d'etre, role, goal, aim, ambition, desire, need or requirement. It is not why the site exists or why we are here. If this is what you want then I suggest looking elsewhere - try a Psych Rock archive or something - or Rate Your Music. We are here to catalogue all that is Progressive Rock. Any category listed on the PA Front Page in Orange is regarded here as a subset (or subgenre) of Progressive Rock and those in Yellow are not. So once again: the "Progressive" in Psychedelic/Space Rock (which is shown in Orange on the Front Page) is implicit. This means that non-Prog bands like Country Joe and The Fish are inadmissible because the Psychedelic Rock they played was not Progressive Psychedelic Rock. We include *some* non-Prog Psychedelic Rock bands under Proto Prog (which is shown in Yellow on the Front Page) if they were germane to the formation of Progressive Rock as a genre, but this does not mean that we should, could or would include every Psych band, regardless of how "key" you believe them to be. [Clue: none of the bands you've listed thus far need to be included under Proto Prog or Psych/Space]. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Rivertree
Date Posted: December 14 2014 at 17:31
now that makes it clear what your intention is. You are not the first to claim such a change, this comes up on and off. But my answer, alongside with Dean, always will be - this is a progressive rock archive, as for that we only are willing to add progressive rock acts to our subgenres - simple as that would be interesting to know btw how this new subgenre should be named - non-progressive psychedelic/space rock, or something like that? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Rivertree" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: December 14 2014 at 17:54
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No ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: December 15 2014 at 06:10
It's really as simple as that.
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: December 15 2014 at 09:55
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I have no problem with a Psych Rock Lounge.....I don't think we need another sub genre. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: December 15 2014 at 10:16
Experimental Psychedelic Rock sounds good to me. And it still sounds like progressive rock to me. Now perhaps you can answer a question for me and explain how Brian Eno's ambiant music is considered progressive rock and why it's listed in PA under Experimental Electronic? Shouldn't it be called non-progressive experimental electronic rock instead?
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Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: December 15 2014 at 10:25
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how about a progressive World subgenre........................ahh just kid'n ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: December 15 2014 at 10:42
This is a snippet from a post of mine taken from a thread about The Orb: The thing is that PA is about prog rock, and it's electronic sub only really exists because of the sites inclusion of Krautrock; a scene so heavily interwoven with pure electronic music, that the two in fact are inseperable. As a consequence of this, PA (mostly) restricts the electronic sub to acts who can trace a direct lineage or sound back to the genre's rock roots. Granted we do have other countries chiming in from along the same time, but then again, most of them were either highly influenced by the Germans or similarly birthed from the country's own rock scene. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: December 15 2014 at 10:56
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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: December 15 2014 at 11:31
| Off the topic - *Progressive electronic* sub should be renamed as *Berlin School of electronic music*, and to add that "ambient" sub for the acts as e.g. Eno, imho. |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: December 15 2014 at 11:48
What about Progressive mainstream
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Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: December 15 2014 at 12:41
YAY Progressive! ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: December 15 2014 at 13:52
Just did. They are just not sufficient to include the band in a full-prog category like psychedlic/space rock. Proto-prog at the most but again more than two songs are required for that to materialize. Thanks for pointing me towards these two tunes and the album. Sounds like HP Lovecraft at times.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: December 15 2014 at 14:51
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^Fair enough, EP. I'm glad I could alter your consciousness, even if it's with only two songs. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: December 15 2014 at 18:37
Shirley you mean Electric Music for the Mind and Body, not Electronic Sounds. Two songs doth not a Prog album make. ------------- What? |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: December 16 2014 at 16:55
And don't call me Shirley! (that bugged me all day! )------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: December 17 2014 at 14:46
..... ...How on earth do I get her face out of my head? She is pasted everywhere on billboards, T.V. screens and internet. I'm starting to look at my wife and see her face instead...OMG....what do I do? Isn't she annoying? Is that suppose to be the concept? She should play a psycho killer in a modern film. A lot of profit could be made from that. Does she ease your day? your pain, if any? She certainly causes me a lot of pain that's for sure When the progressive woman begins to yell and shout, through a window I would like to throw her out..but I resolve not to do it and here's why, I'm afraid of hitting someone passing by. This is my New Years resolution.. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: December 17 2014 at 15:33
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^Who says women aren't into prog? ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: December 23 2014 at 09:42
Excuse me?
It says "progressive", not "prog"!
Methinks you's looking at something else in the picture!
(can't blame you, but what the heck!) ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: skane42
Date Posted: December 23 2014 at 21:33
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Hey I just registered and wanted to update this post and say yes we definitely have to have a lounge like this in PA. Which also caters towards real rock and roll. What is happening to this state seriously?
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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: December 23 2014 at 21:40
Real rock and roll? What, like Chuck Berry? And which state are you referring to? ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: December 24 2014 at 04:06
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I don't think I understand that either? We're a prog site y'know😉 ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |