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Topic ClosedPut Led Zeppelin on the archives!
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Sean Trane View Drop Down
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Points: 20524 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Put Led Zeppelin on the archives!
    Posted: July 21 2006 at 10:44
Originally posted by philippe philippe wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by philippe philippe wrote:

Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

At least Zep rock.....many bands put up for inclusion have no relation to good ole Rock N Roll whatsoever...
I was listening to an MP3 on a BIO page the other day and the piece sounded very similar to the noise my refridgerator makes when it is defrosting..
 
funny experience, do you have the name of the band?Big smile
 
 
there are some real strange groups of late doing so-called drone music, but they are really slow hardcore metal groups doing veeeeeeerryyyyyyy sssssllllllllllllllloooooooooooooowwwwwwwwww music and calling it drone (which I think is BS) >>>> Only name I recall now is SUN O)))))
 
Yes, I know what you mean, I've ever heard some of those sh*ts...
 
 
the music I'm refering to doesn't has a single relationship with it. I'm found of droning electronic weirdness, minimal click / cut style and abstract improvisations.
 
For me the effect of this music on mind is similar to eastern ragas and shamanism music (drums of the dead from the Yorubas...)
 
I can agree with you.
 
 
And I relate drone music more to medieval instruments than to those stupid drone-metal.
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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philippe View Drop Down
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Points: 3597 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2006 at 09:59
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by philippe philippe wrote:

Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

At least Zep rock.....many bands put up for inclusion have no relation to good ole Rock N Roll whatsoever...
I was listening to an MP3 on a BIO page the other day and the piece sounded very similar to the noise my refridgerator makes when it is defrosting..
 
funny experience, do you have the name of the band?Big smile
 
 
there are some real strange groups of late doing so-called drone music, but they are really slow hardcore metal groups doing veeeeeeerryyyyyyy sssssllllllllllllllloooooooooooooowwwwwwwwww music and calling it drone (which I think is BS) >>>> Only name I recall now is SUN O)))))
 
Yes, I know what you mean, I've ever heard some of those sh*ts... the music I'm refering to doesn't has a single relationship with it. I'm found of droning electronic weirdness, minimal click / cut style and abstract improvisations. For me the effect of this music on mind is similar to eastern ragas and shamanism music (drums of the dead from the Yorubas...)


Edited by philippe - July 21 2006 at 10:00
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Sean Trane View Drop Down
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Points: 20524 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2006 at 08:11
Originally posted by philippe philippe wrote:

Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

At least Zep rock.....many bands put up for inclusion have no relation to good ole Rock N Roll whatsoever...
I was listening to an MP3 on a BIO page the other day and the piece sounded very similar to the noise my refridgerator makes when it is defrosting..
 
funny experience, do you have the name of the band?Big smile
 
 
there are some real strange groups of late doing so-called drone music, but they are really slow hardcore metal groups doing veeeeeeerryyyyyyy sssssllllllllllllllloooooooooooooowwwwwwwwww music and calling it drone (which I think is BS) >>>> Only name I recall now is SUN O)))))
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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philippe View Drop Down
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Points: 3597 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2006 at 07:59
Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

At least Zep rock.....many bands put up for inclusion have no relation to good ole Rock N Roll whatsoever...
I was listening to an MP3 on a BIO page the other day and the piece sounded very similar to the noise my refridgerator makes when it is defrosting..
 
funny experience, do you have the name of the band?Big smile
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Points: 11985 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2006 at 07:48
At least Zep rock.....many bands put up for inclusion have no relation to good ole Rock N Roll whatsoever...
I was listening to an MP3 on a BIO page the other day and the piece sounded very similar to the noise my refridgerator makes when it is defrosting..
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Points: 3597 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2006 at 07:44
...I hope we have to take it as a joke...off course, Led Zeppelin must be kept out of this place just as the Doorts. If The Beatles, Queen and others are mentionned it's just a grotesque error of estimation.
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erik neuteboom View Drop Down
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Points: 7659 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2006 at 17:55
I totally agree Flip Stone, Led Zeppelin is a very overrated band, they don't belong in Prog Archives, they have hardly anything to offer in comparison with Talk Talk, ELO, JM Jarre, The Beatles, Radiohead .....Dead ...
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Points: 388 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2006 at 17:14
We don't need any more overrated hard rock bands in Progachives.
 
No need for long, ranting, encylopedias on why they don't belong here, either.
 
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Points: 2450 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2006 at 09:10
I agree with people who said no.. Led Zeppelin really are really great musicians, god of rock and roll.. However when I read the definition of progressive rock, they are just not classified as one..

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Points: 3278 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2006 at 19:25
I say agian, NO
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2006 at 19:16
Originally posted by erik neuteboom erik neuteboom wrote:

Well, Snowdog, I would like to say this: we are invited to set up threads in order to vote for inclusions but I have never seen such a thread about The Beatles. In my opinion this is arranged by Max so the one moment we are a kind of democracy, the other moment Max is the one who orders inclusions ... Confused 
My problem is that ELO, Radiohead and Talk Talk are included but way more rock rooted bands with progressive tendencies like The Doors and Led Zeppelin are excluded, this is injustice and very inconsequent  Angry !


Well Erik, as you know the Collabs vote on many inclusions to the site, but that is only an elite form of democracy....for the chosen few. As for The Beatles, that of course was Max's wish that they be included but it was announced quite openly. It is his right after all.



Anyway, we voted on Zeps inclusion and the result was a "no". So as a "democracy", thats it. Finito!


Edited by Snow Dog - July 14 2006 at 19:26
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Points: 441 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2006 at 19:06
[QUOTE=Ivan_Melgar_M]
 
M@X and Prog Lucky are entitled to add whatever band they want IMO, they created the site from nothing, so they have the full right to decide about most issues.
 
Totally agree with that Ivan.
 
Trouble is, that the name ProgArchives is no longer indicative of the actual content. Contributors come and go, there is a high burn-out rate, due to a degree of disillusionment. In that respect, I understand Peter Rideout's efforts to find an alternative description for the site.
 
Erik refers to democracy, or the lack of it. I may have missed something, but the Archives doesn't give any undertaking in that respect - only politicians do....
 
The site is the intellectual creation of the originators and is of a valuable resource, affording SELECT information to anyone, also an opportunity to contribute - within limits. That needs to be understood. Brilliant design for a website that keeps getting better, but it feels that the content had outgrown the name by now. This, I would identify as the most pressing concern.
(A bit like a shirt that was red when new, but with wear has faded to deep orange, or pink. We'd still call it the red shirt, whereas others may not know that it was red - once.)
 
We can debate the meaning of Progressive until we bleed from the nose - as we have before without success. M@x, you, me, anyone may never agree fully, but I have no doubt of the underlying positive intent.
 
I suggested before and here I'd like to repeat that by approaching the actual artists - where possible - and ask them if they were comfortable with the term and inclusion, could be decisive beyond our personal interpretations.
 
For my part, I'd expect to see Led Zeppelin, Hendrix, others recognized here, while some serious culling would also be welcome and supported. But, it's not my site and my democratic right terminates at choosing whether to contribute, or not.
 
 
 
 


Edited by S Lang - July 15 2006 at 00:14
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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2006 at 16:41
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

Eric, Ivan,

Perhaps the polls are too ambiguous. The Beatles were not added because they were prog, but because of the major influence they had on prog. Thus they are categorised as proto-prog, a non-prog category.
 
I have absolutely no problem with The Beatles, I didn't agreed in the poll. but thinking it over and over I realized that at least for Sgt Peppers and Abbey Road, they deserve to be here.
 
But even if we didn't agree, M@X and Prog Lucky are entitled to add whatever band they want IMO, they created the site from nothing, so they have the full right to decide about most issues.
 
Perhaps polls for bands such as The Doors, Led Zeppelin, Iron Maiden etc. should include an explicit statement that they are not being proposed as prog bands, but for addition in a non-prog category such as prog related or proto-prog. We are of course still reliant on those who vote in the polls recognising this, and not voting on the basis of whether such bands are prog.
 
 
Lets see band by band:
 
  1. The Doors: They are pure USA Psychedelia, if we have Elmer Gantry's Velvet Opera and a whole bunch of Brittish Psyche bands (By own right), why shouldn't be USA Psyche bands also be added? Both are part of the same movement.
  2. Led Zeppelin: I'm sure they're at least Proto Metal, but Proto Prog? I don't think so neither Proto Prog Metal. They are an excellent band that's a fact but IMO they shouldn't be added as Prog.
  3. Iron Maiden: I surely believe they are Prog Metal or at least Proto Progg Metal and IMO much more imaginative than many other PM bands.
 
Alternatively, and admittedly more controversially, do we perhaps need a small panel of collaborators who fully understand* the concept of proto-prog and prog-related (and the fact that these categories implicitly mean such bands are not prog), and who are comfortable with such a concept?
 
I believe it's more a job for all the collaborators than a team work, Prog Related is too wide and vague to be in charge of a team and IMO Proto Prog should be added to Psyche instead of Space Prog because there's a natural relation and a very thin line that divides both genres (In this case a team would work).
 
Those collaborators would then have the sole responsibility for approving the admission of bands to these categories.
 
Maybe taking turns if there's not enough collaborators availlable to make this work, Sean and Zac's teams had problems to get all the collaborators they need, even my team is currently working with three members (Two for a couple of weeks until Raffaella comes from England).
 
(*I don't mean that to sound in any way derogatory to anyone, my apologies if it might come across that way)
 
No apologies required, Bob, I know you enough for that.
 
Iván
 
            
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Points: 15585 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2006 at 13:43

Eric, Ivan,

Perhaps the polls are too ambiguous. The Beatles were not added because they were prog, but because of the major influence they had on prog. Thus they are categorised as proto-prog, a non-prog category.
 
Perhaps polls for bands such as The Doors, Led Zeppelin, Iron Maiden etc. should include an explicit statement that they are not being proposed as prog bands, but for addition in a non-prog category such as prog related or proto-prog. We are of course still reliant on those who vote in the polls recognising this, and not voting on the basis of whether such bands are prog.
 
Alternatively, and admittedly more controversially, do we perhaps need a small panel of collaborators who fully understand* the concept of proto-prog and prog-related (and the fact that these categories implicitly mean such bands are not prog), and who are comfortable with such a concept?
 
Those collaborators would then have the sole responsibility for approving the admission of bands to these categories.
 
(*I don't mean that to sound in any way derogatory to anyone, my apologies if it might come across that way)
 
 
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Points: 5308 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2006 at 13:26
Originally posted by Andrea Cortese Andrea Cortese wrote:

BTW, today I've bought:
 
Remember the FutureWink
 
That's the only Nektar album I've heard, it's great!SleepyShocked
 
 -- Ivan
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2006 at 13:18

Erik wrote:

Quote Well, Snowdog, I would like to say this: we are invited to set up threads in order to vote for inclusions but I have never seen such a thread about The Beatles.

Well Erik, some Collaborators add bands everyday without asking anybody and what is worst, without informing anybody, a well known member adds New Age bands to Symphonic very often and at the end we have to deal with it.
 
I believe we can be flexible, but if teams exist, the least we can do is ask the team in charge for an inclusion,  in the Symphonic Team for example, a tedious band by band work in alphabetical order is being done just to find we have to check it from the start again because we have not been adviced and a New Age, AOR or Folk band has been added to Symphonic without even telling any of us.
 
In my opinion this is arranged by Max so the one moment we are a kind of democracy, the other moment Max is the one who orders inclusions ... Confused 
 
Well, he owns the site, if I own a site I might have some extra prerrogatives than the other members, that's the least we can accept when we are using the site for  free, they took the whole risk and we enjoy it.
 
My problem is that ELO, Radiohead and Talk Talk are included but way more rock rooted bands with progressive tendencies like The Doors and Led Zeppelin are excluded, this is injustice and very inconsequent  Angry !
 
ELO was added because a Collaborator ignored the polls and went too far, we know the rules, once a band is here we don't remove it.
 
Talk Talk and Radiohead, well I don't know why were they included but a tleast in the case of Radiohead there is a good percentage of members who believe they are Prog and IO are at.
 
Now I agree with The Doors, there's a certain prejudice against USA Psychedelia, every Psyche British band is added automaticly but The Doors, Sweet**ter and Santana keep waiting (Well Sweet**ter passed the poll even when most of the people don't know them).
 
About Led Zeppelin, despite how much I like them, I'm not 100% sure.
 
Iván
            
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Points: 4411 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2006 at 12:30
Ahhh, Irony, dulcissima soror mea... (sweetest sister of mine)Wink
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Points: 2808 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2006 at 12:27
Yep, The Police guitarist worked with Kevin Ayers and was a brief member of soft machine.

Edited by NutterAlert - July 14 2006 at 12:27
Proud to be an un-banned member since 2005
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Points: 4411 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2006 at 12:26
BTW, today I've bought:
 
Remember the FutureWink
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Points: 5308 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2006 at 12:24
Originally posted by Peter Rideout Peter Rideout wrote:

Sting next!
 
The Police are at least as progressive as The Beatles! They have prog tendencies too. Wink
 
LOL
 
 -- Ivan
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