Your rating system - Progressive Rock Music Forum

HarbouringTheSoul wrote:

rogerthat wrote:

But I do not subscribe to rating an album ONLY based on personal taste, especially an older work where the listener has had the time to work out its context and possible significance or lack thereof. When you say an album is essential or not, you must consider whether it could indeed be an essential album for the general demographic of this website and I don't believe that is anywhere as hard as is made out to be a lot of times.

Au contraire, I don't believe historical importance makes an album more 'essential'. Above all, I want to listen to good music, not music that influenced other people. I think it's perfectly possible and fine for a member of this website to never have heard In the Court of the Crimson King, and I wouldn't increase my rating for it just for reasons of influence. I think it's worth 4 stars on its own anyway, and that's recommendation enough. The Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack is probably one of the most important albums to the history of prog rock, but its rating is currently 3.32. If we were to consider historical importance, we'd have to conclude that because every prog fan should hear it, it must get five stars. But clearly the album isn't generally considered good enough to deserve such a rating. On the other side, should I refrain from giving Agalloch's Marrow of the Spirit, one of my favorite albums of all time, 5 stars just because it doesn't have any historical importance?

According to PA's rating criteria, an album that is both a 'masterpiece' and 'essential' should get five stars. An album that is 'good' but 'not essential' should get three stars. What should an album that is 'essential' but not 'good' get then?

The Agalloch example is not relevant here because I talked about context and significance with respect to older albums, not new ones.   And the logical flaw in your argument is you have presumed that significance and influence are synonymous in this context. They are not. An album may have been important to the development of a genre simply for introducing new or at least relatively unknown directions.   But an album that was essential from the point of view of innovation need not necessarily be essential listening.   An essential album is a high watermark for the genre and a benchmark for future efforts and it usually would have to present excellence in several facets.

I have also not said everybody should listen to ITCOTCK or such other essential albums so I don't know where you got that from.   But I don't believe that a high consensus rating for a decades old album has absolutely no basis in taste because it has stood the test of time and resonated with listeners who were not of the same generation that first heard it.    So if you still must make a case as to why DSOTM is just a crappy pile of s***, please do so but attempt to make a solid case why.   Present arguments that demonstrate that there is nothing particularly great about several aspects of the album and that it is overrated.   It doesn't matter that you may not convince everyone with it because music is subjective, but if you are just going to say, "Hey I don't like it, so it sucks"...that's not very informative. I cannot stop anybody from doing that, mind, but I do discourage that tendency.   I think the website asks for extreme ratings to be carefully considered for a good reason. It is best done supported with a thorough review.   Even if it is a new album, you should be able to bring out what fresh perspective does it bring to the genre and just what is it that makes it a masterpiece (as far as studio albums go, not talking about live albums).   After all, a 5 star album is a masterpiece and masterpieces are supposed to be few and far between.

And I don't agree with your interpretation of PA's rating criteria.   According to the criteria, it is essential BECAUSE it is a masterpiece and therefore gets 5 stars.   A 4 star album is an excellent addition to any prog rock collection and a 3 star album is good but not essential.   I think the criteria are quite clear.   I am not aware of any correlation between influence and 'essential' in the guidelines, please correct me if I am wrong there.

Edited by rogerthat - January 08 2013 at 10:53