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Topic ClosedWhy space rock is the sound of the space?
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desistindo View Drop Down
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Points: 4321 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2012 at 11:08
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

In Germany there was the whole cosmic scene, something they themselves called it. Kosmische Musik. A notion about making music that penetrates the stratosphere and ventures out in space and beyond. Trippy mind expanding music that levitates, heaves, writhes and flies out beyond the confines of our little blue speck. To me it seems logical and quite appropriate, but then again I've always been very naive and imaginative - especially in regards to music that takes on qualities of a vast Universe soundtrack.


Yeap, thats why I dont agree with the drugs theory too. I think the search for "something else" couldnt be in the prosaic rockīnīroll of old Earth, right? And the physical sensation of levitation you feel when you listen to some Kraut, as Ashra for instance, seems to be in perfect tune with space and its alternate gravities...
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Points: 293 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2012 at 11:14
Early space rock instrument....
They flutter behind you your possible pasts,
Some bright-eyed and crazy, some frightened and lost.
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Points: 17529 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2012 at 16:22
Originally posted by desistindo desistindo wrote:

Originally posted by Neelus Neelus wrote:

Apparently this is one of the earliest examples of music inspired by space.  I have not listened to this in detail yet though, so dont know if this could have influenced space rock as we know it...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Hear_a_New_World


Very interesting! I will definitely check it out.
 
The funny part of almost all of the "space" this and that ... it really isn't! "spacey" in the sense that it relates to "space" (way out there above out heads!), or even "inner space" (came later in some music!), or anything else ... but it did have a lot of very funny and interesting things.
 
Beaver and Krause also did a lot of experiments and some of these things, had strange sounds ... and you could go back The Goons in the 50's in England, when Spike Milligan was inventing sound effects that were turning the BBC blue and green ... in America, Tom Lehere, Spike Jones and Ernest Kovacs also did this ... and it was very fashionable. The issue was that its very sound, for many of these effects, were extremely strong and could be used for something other than what they were being used as.
 
So no one noticed that "Forbidden Planet" had one of the very first electronic soundtrax ever done ... and those sounds were so weird and off kilter, that they became associated with "space" ... and if they were or not .. was not an issue ... the fact of the matter was that ... they sounded weird! And of course, by the time you get to PDQ Bach, this is taken to an extreme ... that PA can not handle at all ... except Dean and Snow Dog!
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Points: 831 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2012 at 16:25
Originally posted by desistindo desistindo wrote:


Yeap, thats why I dont agree with the drugs theory too. I think the search for "something else" couldnt be in the prosaic rockīnīroll of old Earth, right? And the physical sensation of levitation you feel when you listen to some Kraut, as Ashra for instance, seems to be in perfect tune with space and its alternate gravities...


are you implying Ashra and other krautrockers weren't on tons of drugs? lol. Pretty sure it would be the psychedelic revelations that made those guys want to find ways to create music that captures the feeling of something as epic as space.

i also bring up LSD because, for example, the Dead were one of the first examples of psychedelic music before everyone started using tons of weird sounds and effects to create "psychedelic" music in that they were just a normal band but all the musicians were on psychedelics, and they would still describe their extended jamming as going far off into space and floating around the universe until they settled back down into a normal song on earth. They also had the tune "Dark Star" which was about black holes before black holes were actually discovered.. I just think the idea of vast endless space is really appealing to psychonauts which is why it started being seeing more in psych rock and more and more in space/prog stuff.

I don't think it is the sole and ONLY reason behind space rock and all the weird sounds they use but you can't deny that it played a big part for the sounds of bands like Floyd or Hawkwind


Edited by Sumdeus - October 30 2012 at 16:31
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Points: 17529 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2012 at 16:44
Hi,
 
By the way, "space rock" is NOT the sound of space ... not even close ... but the idea and the thought .,.. was as good as any other process out there ... and at least a lot of the imagery and work around "space rock" made a lot more sense than ... let's say ... "fantasy rock". At least you knew one had a foot on the ground and the head on the stars ... the other? ... no comment!
 
But there were some nice things ... that went right by most folks ... a lot of stuff inspired (and some writte) by Michael Moorcock. Arthur C Clarke also did things with a couple of rock musicians, notably Mike Oldfield, I know that Ray Bradbury did a lot of film, but never related to music per se as far as I remember and know.
 
I actually did not mind the connection between rock and space ... it certainly was much more honest and "clean" than the balderdash that later became known as "new age".


Edited by moshkito - October 31 2012 at 12:20
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wilmon91 View Drop Down
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Points: 698 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2012 at 18:47
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

So no one noticed that "Forbidden Planet" had one of the very first electronic soundtrax ever done ...and those sounds were so weird and off kilter, that they became associated with "space"
I was gonna mention that movie, but I see you already mentioned it.... oooh well. Well maybe there is for the first time a connection between electronic sounds and space.


Edited by wilmon91 - October 30 2012 at 18:52
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smartpatrol View Drop Down
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Points: 14169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2012 at 19:13
there is no sound in space. This is real space music
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Points: 17529 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2012 at 12:05
Originally posted by Sumdeus Sumdeus wrote:

...
i also bring up LSD because, for example, the Dead were one of the first examples of psychedelic music before everyone started using tons of weird sounds and effects to create "psychedelic" music in that they were just a normal band but all the musicians were on psychedelics, and they would still describe their extended jamming as going far off into space and floating around the universe until they settled back down into a normal song on earth. They also had the tune "Dark Star" which was about black holes before black holes were actually discovered.. I just think the idea of vast endless space is really appealing to psychonauts which is why it started being seeing more in psych rock and more and more in space/prog stuff.
...
 
I do not like to use "dope", or "psychedelics" as an excuse ... for folks to create music ... but I do believe that there is a side of the human spirit that likes to experiment and learn ... and THAT TIME AND PLACE was very good for that ... and one can learn a lot from that ... but it is not something that most music folks that can only count 1, 2 and 3, or go A, B or C ... will likely be capable of doing ... somewhere along the way ... it is no longer about the notes and chords, but more often than not the "feel" of the moment, and how well you adjust and play with it.
 
And this is not something that a lot of people can do, easily enough.
 
The harshest part is that what brought that whole thing in the Bay Area to fruition, was totally lost ... it was the long cuts and the trips ... and how many versions of Dark Star can you find these days, that were 30 minutes long? Probably none! And that tells you that the "music business" killed a lot of the music, in favor of a "song" ... which is all that is remembered from those days, along with one of the saddest and ugliest examples of how Americans can be so nasty ... Jimi tries to elevate the music past a song? ... and all you see is garbage and people leaving!
 
That is, what became of that era, and there are not enough folks that speak well of it, and help its understanding and what it really did for the arts in the end.
 
There are some magnanimous moments ... see the movie "The Trip" about Ken Kesey ... and one moment in the end, pretty much says it all ... "in the end, we were afraid ... and did not have the courage ... " ... and this is one scene that had some outstanding arts ... that were wated, and vilified nastily by the media.
 
Drugs or not, in the end, it's all good. No one is talking about Edgar Allan Poe and his dope, or Herman Hesse and his dope ... but we read their stuff and love its psychedelic apparitions! ... which tells you that there is a side of that which IS a part of us ... that we continually refuse to accept, understand, or even study!
 
Nothing like killing a side of yourself and then thinking that a new age crystal will bring it back? Or maybe something else in 20 years!
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desistindo View Drop Down
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Points: 4321 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2012 at 12:24
Originally posted by smartpatrol smartpatrol wrote:

there is no sound in space. This is real space music



Didnt know that one Shocked"The Nutopian International Anthem" by John Lennon . Sublime composed.
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Points: 17529 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2012 at 12:27
Originally posted by wilmon91 wilmon91 wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

So no one noticed that "Forbidden Planet" had one of the very first electronic soundtrax ever done ...and those sounds were so weird and off kilter, that they became associated with "space"
I was gonna mention that movie, but I see you already mentioned it.... oooh well. Well maybe there is for the first time a connection between electronic sounds and space.
 
There is ... but that "link" is imaginary for our tastes.
 
Scientists and Nasa, have specifically been looking for "sounds" and many other things ... and there is "space wind" which is the residue of the energy coming off the sun ... and many other examples ... but their effects are on completely different wavelengths that are not susceptible to our understanding, or any of the 5 senses.
 
We keep having this image that we're the lords of the universe and that all sounds and things have to fit into our equation, and we're not even a grain of sand in that massive universe ... way too much christian thinking here ... that needs to upgrade itself!
 
Movies have been amazing in the arena of the "definition" os "space" for us all ... to the point where we see the movies, or Donald Duck each and every time we think about it. All we need is Strauss! In some ways, when you go back to the electronic pinoeers, they all owe a lot to these movies and experiments, but no one wants to know that the sound used here and here, was a sock full of custard, sent flying backwards on the tape! The "experience" of the sound is dis-concerting for us all, because we can not identify it, or "know" what it is ... and this is almost the exact same thing when you have "weird" and "strange" dreams that you can barely identify, and have an even harder time expressing what happened ... it's a different "universe" out there!
 
Rock music, in some ways, well some jazz stuff also did, helped bring it further into the consciouness of the public, but that's almost like saying that the Moon shots did not affect our sensibilities, up to and including what those astronauts were saying, which was not much per Nasa and the Russian authorities, because these government authorities are always afraid that the public will panic and that the Overlords will come over!
 
For the most part, for me, these sounds have always been an attempt at "illustrating" what was out there in a feeling-like perception ... but to assimilate it dirrectly like that ... is kinda ... weird! Just plain wierd!
 
Funny joke ... Chuck Jones (Chuck Amuck), wrote in his book that Nasa never paid Warner Brothers cartoonists for their invention of the space rocket and outfits, they created 30 years before Nasa took off to space!
 


Edited by moshkito - October 31 2012 at 13:09
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Points: 4321 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2012 at 12:32
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Sumdeus Sumdeus wrote:

...
i also bring up LSD because, for example, the Dead were one of the first examples of psychedelic music before everyone started using tons of weird sounds and effects to create "psychedelic" music in that they were just a normal band but all the musicians were on psychedelics, and they would still describe their extended jamming as going far off into space and floating around the universe until they settled back down into a normal song on earth. They also had the tune "Dark Star" which was about black holes before black holes were actually discovered.. I just think the idea of vast endless space is really appealing to psychonauts which is why it started being seeing more in psych rock and more and more in space/prog stuff.
...


The harshest part is that what brought that whole thing in the Bay Area to fruition, was totally lost ... it was the long cuts and the trips ... and how many versions of Dark Star can you find these days, that were 30 minutes long? Probably none! And that tells you that the "music business" killed a lot of the music, in favor of a "song" ... which is all that is remembered from those days, along with one of the saddest and ugliest examples of how Americans can be so nasty ... Jimi tries to elevate the music past a song? ... and all you see is garbage and people leaving!
 


But I donīt think the  pop music has to explore those waves for me to discover new levels of music. For instance, I can listen to a weird guy from Lithuania playing a 40 minutes adventurous track by accessing a bandcamp.com link, I dont have to listen it on radio. Who searchs, discovers.
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Points: 17529 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2012 at 13:01
Originally posted by desistindo desistindo wrote:

...
But I donīt think the  pop music has to explore those waves for me to discover new levels of music. For instance, I can listen to a weird guy from Lithuania playing a 40 minutes adventurous track by accessing a bandcamp.com link, I dont have to listen it on radio. Who searchs, discovers.
 
Sorry ... time issue! We're talking 40 years ago!
 
We did not have that ability or luck in those days! There was no Internet. Cassettes weren't even out yet. And the LP, or Tape, was the only thing that carried music around!
 
But we still shared music and experiences! It just took longer!


Edited by moshkito - October 31 2012 at 13:17
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Points: 4321 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2012 at 13:33
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by desistindo desistindo wrote:

...
But I donīt think the  pop music has to explore those waves for me to discover new levels of music. For instance, I can listen to a weird guy from Lithuania playing a 40 minutes adventurous track by accessing a bandcamp.com link, I dont have to listen it on radio. Who searchs, discovers.
 
Sorry ... time issue! We're talking 40 years ago!
 
We did not have that ability or luck in those days! There was no Internet. Cassettes weren't even out yet. And the LP, or Tape, was the only thing that carried music around!
 
But we still shared music and experiences! It just took longer!


Oh, sorry. I thought you was saying in general terms.
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Points: 14258 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2012 at 07:25
Hawkwind kind of made it a household term, space rock was psychedelic textures layered over with drug fuelled acid rock. Lemmy said in an interview, "Hawkwind had no idea what they were doing as they were so whacked off their brains but they did what they did and did it well and now all this..." (space rock) 
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Points: 4321 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2012 at 19:58
Originally posted by AtomicCrimsonRush AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:

Hawkwind kind of made it a household term, space rock was psychedelic textures layered over with drug fuelled acid rock. Lemmy said in an interview, "Hawkwind had no idea what they were doing as they were so whacked off their brains but they did what they did and did it well and now all this..." (space rock) 

Hawkwind doesnt seems to be the orign ofnthe term, butnI would say they contributed for the "wicked" image of the soace rock atmosphere, yes.
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Points: 14169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2012 at 20:06
I think one reason it may be is that early Space Rock, such as "I Hear a New World" by Joe Meek, is dominated by synthesizers and ambiance. Why? Because synths, at least at the time, sounded other-worldly and foreign, just like space. This eventually morphed with the LSD and Marijuana influenced Psychedelic rock of the 60s, which was also other-worldly sounding due to the drug-trip influenced qualities of psychedelic rock.
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