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Topic ClosedHarmonium-Symphonic or Prog Folk?
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Catcher10 View Drop Down
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Points: 17848 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2011 at 12:51
Originally posted by Junges Junges wrote:

I think they have both elements very strong.

I don't really care what classification it is and don't know why is it so important to classify.
 
Exactly!!! Lets put them under Extreme/Tech-Jazz Fusion.
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Points: 3126 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2011 at 14:16
It's because of the long extensive progressive sections of certain pieces that contain mellotron and dark sounding chord changes along with that acoustic guitar so often placed into folk. There are long sections that remind me of King Crimson...."In the Wake of Poseidon period. Often coming across like an epic and not at all like Picture of a City or Cat Food. More of the very early romantic sounding Crimson if anything. Sometimes like Strawbs. You have to relax and pay attention to hear it. It is present in their music , but since they have an originality of their own...it blends in so nicely that it may go un-noticed. Harmonium had a darker approach in what is catagorized as Symphonic....and sometimes darker than King Crimson.
 
They seemed to be more schooled as players than maybe a band like Pulsar, however both bands displayed this great originality in their dark keyboard clusters. The first effort from Harmonium is mostly folk oriented , however the 2nd and 3rd releases explore these distant prog chord variations ....so it is a difficult task to make a perfect analogy and pigeon-hole them into a term. I wouldn't want the job of doing that. I do know what I hear is correct. Not all or even most prog folk bands cross into that Symphonic realm like Harmonium do. And then one analogy just bounces back and forth to the other. So I feel sorry for the person who must tagged them.


Edited by TODDLER - June 14 2011 at 14:19
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2011 at 15:26
Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

. Not all or even most prog folk bands cross into that Symphonic realm like Harmonium do. And then one analogy just bounces back and forth to the other. So I feel sorry for the person who must tagged them.


Not so rare TODDLER, but is more common for Symphonic bands to add Folk elements of their countries, for example:

  1. Renaissance
  2. Aphrodite's Child 
  3. Solaris (Hungary)
  4. Alameda
  5. Collegium Musicum
  6. Bacamarte (LŃsten "Sete Cidades")
  7. Karda Estra
  8. Yesterdeys (Romania)
  9. Accent (Romania)
  10. After Crying (Hungary)
  11. Tabula Saragdina.
  12. Atila
  13. Coto en Pel
  14. Cai
  15. CAL
  16. Granada
  17. Estructura (Venezuela)
  18. Govea
  19. Caja de Pandora
  20. Tocatta

And I could go for pages.

The only casein Folk that comes to my mind is THE STRAWBS.

We have to deal with every single band and see what's more relevant,, the Prog or Symphonic component.

Iván 
            
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Points: 3126 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2011 at 18:46
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

. Not all or even most prog folk bands cross into that Symphonic realm like Harmonium do. And then one analogy just bounces back and forth to the other. So I feel sorry for the person who must tagged them.


Not so rare TODDLER, but is more common for Symphonic bands to add Folk elements of their countries, for example:

  1. Renaissance
  2. Aphrodite's Child 
  3. Solaris (Hungary)
  4. Alameda
  5. Collegium Musicum
  6. Bacamarte (LŃsten "Sete Cidades")
  7. Karda Estra
  8. Yesterdeys (Romania)
  9. Accent (Romania)
  10. After Crying (Hungary)
  11. Tabula Saragdina.
  12. Atila
  13. Coto en Pel
  14. Cai
  15. CAL
  16. Granada
  17. Estructura (Venezuela)
  18. Govea
  19. Caja de Pandora
  20. Tocatta

And I could go for pages.

The only casein Folk that comes to my mind is THE STRAWBS.

We have to deal with every single band and see what's more relevant,, the Prog or Symphonic component.

Iván 
I have just about everything from Renaissance, Karda Estra, and Solaris. The other bands on the list I don't know their music. Renaissance is folk and classical influenced, but Karda Estra with the classical nylon string guitar? I don't know unless you are pointing out the sections of their music where female vocal harmonies are backed by classical guitar....otherwise I don't hear folk actually as much as I hear the influence of 20th century composers. Solaris maybe European folk influenced to a degree as they are more in the Jethro Tull vain... but Harmonium seem more extreme than these 3 bands. There are times when they sound a hundred percent folk without blending Symphonic into the mix or other times they are quite the opposite. With the other 2 bands.....I feel they blend styles in completeness. With Harmonium it just feels a bit different to me personally and if I were you....I would have the most difficult time in defining a term. I'm sure these other bands on your list are difficult to define just as Harmonium are. Thanks for posting this list. In the area of investigation into 70's( not neo), European progressive prog/folk bands I haven't gambled enough to travel deeper. With France I haven't traveled beyond Ange, Pulsar, Edhels, Mona Lisa, Clearlight, and maybe a few others....because I get into Electronic music and 20th century composers. I feel that my problem with researching further is simply time and money. But thanks for the list ....I will research these bands.
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2011 at 19:07
The problem with us, is that we tend to see Folk as a blend of Rock and Celtic/British Pastoral music, but Folk is so much more, there are ethnic expressions around the world with hardly some guitar at all..

Acoustic guitar is not Prog Folk synonymous, 

For example, in Voivode Dracula, Karda Estra uses  bouzouki and  rastrophone creating Dark Romanian atmospheres, perfect for the story of Dracula, as a fact they blend Romanian music with their Neo Classical sound. 

That's what makes sub-genres so hard to define, we need to see more than just Celtic/pastoral music.

Iván
            
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2011 at 19:31
There is definitely no Hungarian/Romanian folk in Yesterdays, Solaris or Accent, but it's true I haven't heard everything they have. Same for Collegium Musicum, I only have two albums from them. But they're folk free. 

Edited by harmonium.ro - June 14 2011 at 19:32
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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2011 at 20:33
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

There is definitely no Hungarian/Romanian folk in Yesterdays, Solaris or Accent, but it's true I haven't heard everything they have. Same for Collegium Musicum, I only have two albums from them. But they're folk free. 


Gotta agree with this.

Also this thread contains paradox: harmonium talking about Harmonium.
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Points: 3126 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2011 at 21:17
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

The problem with us, is that we tend to see Folk as a blend of Rock and Celtic/British Pastoral music, but Folk is so much more, there are ethnic expressions around the world with hardly some guitar at all..

Acoustic guitar is not Prog Folk synonymous, 

For example, in Voivode Dracula, Karda Estra uses  bouzouki and  rastrophone creating Dark Romanian atmospheres, perfect for the story of Dracula, as a fact they blend Romanian music with their Neo Classical sound. 

That's what makes sub-genres so hard to define, we need to see more than just Celtic/pastoral music.

Iván
Okay that is a good point regarding Voivode Dracula. The ethnic expressions I often hear in the music of Popol Vuh.
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2011 at 22:26
I still believe that the term Folk is misleading, because  people listen Folk and immediately think in Jethro Tull or STRAWBS, so anybody who finds Los Jaivas is in Folk, will feel disappointed because they have nothing in common.....I believe the term Ethnic Prog is more accurate.

Originally posted by Harmonium.Ro Harmonium.Ro wrote:

]There is definitely no Hungarian/Romanian folk in Yesterdays, Solaris or Accent, but it's true I haven't heard everything they have. Same for Collegium Musicum, I only have two albums from them. But they're folk free. 

1.- Yesterdays: This Transylvanian band plays a complex blend of several styles: a basically classic symphonic Prog is redefined here with some jazzy, folk and atmospheric touches - all of these played with a youthful energy, inner light and sunny mood.  (Wrote by Betty Leb, based on information provided by YESTERDAYS and sent to me by Szolt Entedi - Keyboardist of Yesterdays). 
http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=3834

2.- Solaris: "Although SOLARIS sound rather unique, elements of JETHRO TULL (flute), MANFRED MANN'S EARTH BAND (Minimoog solos with pitchbend) and Jean Michel JARRE (electronic intro in the first part of the titletrack) can be traced. The 2-LP 1990 contains typical SOLARIS songs: dynamic and propulsive with spectacular synth runs, fiery electric gutiar and beautiful flute-play. Remarkable is the spacy keyboard sound in some songs and the obvious classical influences" By Erik Neuteboom in Ptog Archives

Te Wikipedia Page about Solaris also mentions: Solaris (band) is a progressive rock band from Hungary. Established in 1980, the band went through several formations. Their music has a strong melodic content, often laced with Eastern European themes.

Marsbéli Krónikák: Is full of Folk elements, there are even pure Eastern Europe songs like "A Sarga Koe" or highly Folk influenced as "Marsbéli Krónikák II - II and IV -VI" 

Nostradamus Book of Prophesies: Is a perfect blend between Symphonic and Easter Europe Folk.

Attila Kollar and Robert Erdesz: Two key members of Solaris and two off their main composers are located in Prog Folk

If I'm not wrong, Solaris used to be in Prog Folk, but several years ago we moved them by agreement with Sean.

3.- Collegium Musicim: IMO has clear Eastern Europe ethnic influenxce

4.- Accent; Is formefd by two  folk musicians Nicolae SAVA and guitarist/singer Paul PRISADA, they put music to poems of Hungarian great writers  Miron Radu Paraschivescu, and Mircea Dinescu, and you believe they are Folk free?

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - June 17 2011 at 23:23
            
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2011 at 09:21
Ivan, Yesterdays and Accent mentioned have folk elements, if by folk you mean the 60s/70s popular music played with acoustic guitars. But I thought you meant traditional folk, ie ethnic music. There is no traditional folk on Yesterday's Holdfenykert (I haven't heard the new album though) and on Accent's 70s and 80s recordings (they have a new album out but I don't have it because they don't sell it Confused).

Solaris I haven't heard for a few years now so I should re-listen them.

From Collegium Musicum I have Mikrokozmos and Live with Marian Varga, both are 100% Clasically inspired prog, but I don't know their other albums.
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