| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
let prog reign 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 11 2010
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 256
|
 Posted: February 07 2011 at 18:21 |
 Tony R wrote:
The Floyd albums up to and including DSotM are far more progressive than anything Genesis, Yes or Tull put out.
Watch the DSotM Classic Album programme and you will understand. |
 Let the man with 100 000 posts tell us all
|
|
Once upon a time there was some writing on the wall we all ignored, until the time that there was war and feasts of famine at our door
|
 |
Fox On The Rocks
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 10 2011
Location: Toronto, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 5012
|
Posted: February 12 2011 at 21:27 |
Starhammer wrote:
It is literally progressive, but it ain't "prog" |
Exactly.
|
|
|
|
moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18058
|
Posted: February 21 2011 at 14:05 |
let prog reign wrote:
Many of Pink Floyd's albums are clearly prog like DSOTM or Animals. The Wall never really appealed to me like Pink Floyd's other great albums and I think it's because it is not very progressive. |
The more I think about this, the more I prefer to not think that this is progressive ... but it does not take away from it, anything ... it's still excellent music and work all around.
I still think that this will become one of the best known "operas" of the 20th century ... and I just can't wait for someone else to try and do this and see their interpretation ... and clean up the staging so the fluency and themes of the work are more integrated and displayed better ... it might be better if we either concentrate on the kid that is all alone, or concentrate on the effects of war on the folks involved, and I am not sure that the whole thing is clear enough to join both themes and in the early version a lot of "The Final Cut" was a part of it, and in the final version it is not ... and I think that it confuses things ... I think that a kid growing up in an oppressive place, might feel that way, but I am not sure that he/she would be so vehemently opposed to everything and consider their ex-instructors a vicious military ... somehow it's a bit of an extreme here for me ... I can see the anger and the isolation, but hardly see the rest of the political situation, even though it could happen.
As to "progressive"? ... I have never felt that Pink Floyd was all about "progressive" anything ... just inventive and excellent work all around ... the kind of work that defies description and designation, and in the end, that is the best art there is.
|
|
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
|
|
boo boo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
|
Posted: February 21 2011 at 14:20 |
topographicbroadways wrote:
I think it was really bad that the name of the genre ended up being "Progressive Rock" or "Prog" or whatever, it rather makes people want to think of the genre about the music "progressing", whether it is within the same song, the same album, or within the boundaries of the genre (the new album has to offer something new to music, to "progress" music). However, I don't think that's the whole description of the genre, though it is an important part of it. I liked better the early description of the genre "art rock", for I believe it describes better the whole point of prog (at least at the beginning), which was to do something better with rock music.
\Thread. With prog it is very easy to over-analyse when how you feel as you listen is the most important thing, the genre of prog is about emotions in the music and not solely about complexity. Floyd were never a band that played in 9/8 and showed off a great deal of virtuosity but were always a prog band. |
I agree with this.
I do like the term "prog rock" just because it sounds cool. It never annoys me when people say "this isn't prog", but when people say "this isn't progressive" even when it's something that CLEARLY is...............................
Edited by boo boo - February 21 2011 at 14:26
|
|
jaybird77
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 12 2011
Location: Alaska
Status: Offline
Points: 28
|
Posted: February 22 2011 at 02:03 |
|
Pink Floyd's trademark are writing conceptual albums musically and lyrically. Some people confuse "concept albums" being synonymous with Prog Rock. Yet, not all concept albums fit into the genre of Progressive Rock, i.e., "Tommy", "Antichrist Superstar". In the case of Pink Floyd some of their music could also be questioned whether it fits into the Prog Rock mold or not, but that's another arguement. Honestly, this forum could be 50/50. "The Wall" has alot of Prog elements; reccuring themes and motifs, great instrumentals, dynamic songwriting, and the beginning of side 2 really sets more of the musical ambience then on side 2. On the other hand, Waters was never much of a virtuoso, neither was Nick Mason. IMO a band that considers themselves Prog Rock must possess some type of prowess over their musical instruments, I never thought these two guys were good musicians. Thank God for Dave Gilmour and Rick Wright. After weighing the pros and cons, I would consider this album to be Progressive Rock material.
|
|
Evolver
Special Collaborator
Crossover & JR/F/Canterbury Teams
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: The Idiocracy
Status: Offline
Points: 5482
|
Posted: February 22 2011 at 06:21 |
Tony R wrote:
The Floyd albums up to and including DSotM are far more progressive than anything Genesis, Yes or Tull put out.
|
That's trying to quantify something that's not quantifiable.
|
|
Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
|
|
Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
|
Posted: February 22 2011 at 06:31 |
jaybird77 wrote:
IMO a band that considers themselves Prog Rock must possess some type of prowess over their musical instruments, I never thought these two guys were good musicians. . |
Pink Floyd don't consider themselves Prog Rock..never have. Anyhow prowess over instruments has nothing to do with Prog anyway.
|
|
|
|
King Winter
Forum Groupie
Joined: June 04 2010
Location: Israel
Status: Offline
Points: 51
|
Posted: February 22 2011 at 09:04 |
The Wall is progressive because it has many classical influences, especially on the second disc.
Animals is not progressive! Dogs and Pigs are both long tracks but not progreesive, and they are preety groovy. Sheep is kind of progressive, I guess...
|
|
moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18058
|
Posted: February 22 2011 at 20:59 |
Snow Dog wrote:
jaybird77 wrote:
IMO a band that considers themselves Prog Rock must possess some type of prowess over their musical instruments, I never thought these two guys were good musicians. . |
Pink Floyd don't consider themselves Prog Rock..never have. Anyhow prowess over instruments has nothing to do with Prog anyway. |
+1
+2
+3
+4
Echoes my sentiments exactly.
It's great music, and I couldn't give a damn if it is progressive or not ... that band's music and work will survive hundreds of years and no one will remember ProgArchives! ... even our comments would be even less important in either direction!
But if "progressive", or "prog" means "innovative", "creative", "original" ... then the discussion is over. But the band, themselves, never used the term, and Roger laughs about it all day long! And Jim Ladd will say something witty about people that think they know music and then call it radio-active waste!
|
|
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
|
|
jaybird77
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 12 2011
Location: Alaska
Status: Offline
Points: 28
|
Posted: February 22 2011 at 21:16 |
I'm sorry but I do believe prowess does have something to do with Prog. How many progressive rock bands out there have mediocre chops? I became a musician because of Prog and Fusion. It's always compelled me to play beyond the limited restraints of basic 4/4 rock and chugging out the same 4 or 5 chords. Like I said before, that's my opinion.
|
|
rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
|
Posted: February 23 2011 at 10:49 |
jaybird77 wrote:
How many progressive rock bands out there have mediocre chops?
|
I don't think Renaissance had amazing MUSICIANS except maybe the bassist. I am not sure how amazing Mick Pointer was, at least not on the Script...album and while Steve Rothery has got a great tone, lovely vibrato and writes emotional solos, given the context you are referring to viz prog/fusion, he's not all that hot and nor is Mark Kelly. While it could be argued that prog musicians are technically above average vis-a-vis plain vanilla rock, they are not always outstanding. Maybe that the top prog rock bands like JT, ELP, Yes had such talented musicians creates such an impression.
|
|
moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18058
|
Posted: February 23 2011 at 15:13 |
jaybird77 wrote:
I'm sorry but I do believe prowess does have something to do with Prog. How many progressive rock bands out there have mediocre chops? I became a musician because of Prog and Fusion. It's always compelled me to play beyond the limited restraints of basic 4/4 rock and chugging out the same 4 or 5 chords. Like I said before, that's my opinion.
|
Not disagreeing with this at all.
But the issue, in my understanding of it, is that we confuse someone playing this and that with what it is ... or might not be.
In the end, it doesn't matter if you play whatever you play ... if they are 4/4 or the same 4 or 5 chords, if your emphasys is on a different accent and on a different "non-format", away from the ones that most rock music tends to follow.
My contention is, that the description, is trying to do something that music has done for hundreds of years ... and that is to "simplify" what is done, or heard, and see if you can copy it or play it ... or at least write it down ... which is one of the things in some of the definitions that state that improvisation can not be done and there are not to many solos that were not originally improvised anyway!
But let's not state that all fusion is progressive or prog, because it can be ... but it might also not be!
In the end, we fail to see the most obvious things, that you can see in the early albums and bootlegs ... the massive amount of improvisation and experimentation and playing around with sound effects, that became a massive part of their work ... think about that ... you are talking about the "musicality" of it all, and they were thinking how to add music to this sound, or effect or type of moment ... it's a bit different, and in that sense, yes, very progressive!
|
|
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
|
|
jaybird77
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 12 2011
Location: Alaska
Status: Offline
Points: 28
|
Posted: February 23 2011 at 15:30 |
Getting back to the original subject, "The Wall" had a huge influence on me, more then DSOTM, WYWH, or Meddle. The first time I ever heard it was at a laser show in Seattle. To sit down and listen to the entire album in one sitting is quite mind blowing. There is a darker and more intense atmosphere to this album then anything else they've done, even "Animals". I think this album is when the Floyd rocked the most.
|
|
Jarvig
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 09 2011
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 28
|
Posted: February 25 2011 at 03:35 |
|
Off cause The Wall is prog. Very much so.
|
|
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Is "The Wall" Progressive Rock
