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The Pessimist View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
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Joined: June 13 2007
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Points: 3834 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Music: For Education and for Pleasure
    Posted: August 22 2008 at 13:41
It's come to my attention that most of my muso friends divide the music they listen to into two categories: music they listen to for pleasure and music they listen to for an education. For example, listen to Opeth, Brahms, Meshuggah and Pat Metheny for pleasure because it's music to my tastes. However, i listen to Avante Garde/Modernist music like Stravinsky and Stockhausen, most Baroque and solo piano and acoustic/classical guitar works for my own education and to forward my playing and compositional skills. I wonder, do the musicians on ProgArchives have the same approach to music?
"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."

Arnold Schoenberg
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WinterLight View Drop Down
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Points: 424 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2008 at 14:04
False dichotomy.  Not sure why "educational" and "pleasurable" music need be mutually exclusive, unless of course, one has been inculcated with certain standards or values that foster such guilt.
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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2008 at 07:56
I must admit that I don't divide music up - it makes it too complicated.
 
However, there are such things as listening for education and listening for pleasure - the two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, as WinterLight points out - but sometimes I enjoy listening for the sake of working out what the musicians are doing, or fitting the music into a historical context, or some other studious reason, and sometimes I enjoy listening just because the music enhances my mood or makes me think of something cool.
 
There's no particular music that fits either listening criteria, however - I'll happily listen to ABBA and pick the arrangements to pieces, or listen to Penderecki or Messaien just for the spine-chilling thrills of the sounds.
 
I recently listened to Tubeway Army's "Are Friends Electric" with the express purpose of creating a cover version - purely for fun, but, of course, had to listen to each line carefully to work out what was being played and sung - and tried to trap all the nuances that made it sound the way it did so that I could roughly match the sound engineering.
 
This is an example of doing both simultaneously - I've got a copy of the recording somewhere...
 
 
 
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Luke. J View Drop Down
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Points: 380 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2008 at 13:15
I hope I will never come to a point at which listening to music is not pleasure but education.. to me, it is more like I try to learn from the music I like. For example, as a piano player I very much apreciate the works of Herbie Hancock and often think "that sounds nice - well, how did he do it?". Because of my musical taste, I also have this with several classical music. But I could never ever listen to music only for education.. it is like looking at a painting and say "This kind of blue (quote it if you want..) looks nice, but this picture as a whole is not interesting". I know I am an idealistic musician for saying that music shall never be construction but just to capture the heart of the moment (no, no heat..) to transmit the feeling while writing a song. However, until the rude awakening I will try to write and not construct music.
I kind of drifted off, didn't I?
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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2008 at 17:08
Originally posted by Luke. J Luke. J wrote:

(...) I know I am an idealistic musician for saying that music shall never be construction(...)
 
Allowing some form of construction into your writing process can actually help you write freer music and enhance your idealism...
 
Waters, Wright and Mason were architecture students, and pieces like "A Saucerful of Secrets" were drawn up as architectural blueprints. The music that was then fitted around the framework was much freer than if there had been no skeleton available to hang it all together.
 
I like "writing to rules" principally because of this - there's absolutely nothing that can stop you changing the rules as you go along, if inspiration hits you in a big way, and, if you've planned it right, the framework itself can be a work of art.
 
Form is where music inherently progresses - all other elements are as gravy.
 
Consider Beethoven's 5th Wink
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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