Paganism / Prog Connection ?

walrus333 wrote: @ Flyingsod, yes in the past the Christian church has been to aggresive (especially in the middle ages) but nowadays they are far more tolerant. I think that fundamentalist protestants give all Christians a bad name. Catholicism is not a bad religion if its teachings are examend objectively. And nowadays is rather tolerant, in the religion class at my catholic school the teachers even say that the Catholic church is not the only way one can reach Heaven. Also the late Pope John Paul II met with muslim leaders, Jewish leaders, protestant leaders and Eastern Orthodox leaders.

Good point, specially if you add the efforts to reunite the Catholic. Orthodox, Lutheran aand Anglican Rekligionss in only one, we can notice some things are changing.}

But sadly there's a lot of new Fundamentalist groups that not only proclaim the only truth in spiritual matters, but the superiority of certain nations and ethnic groups, this last issue is frightening.

Iván

 

I see what your saying but I misrepresented what i was trying to say. I wasn't speaking to outright physical aggression. I was more talking about the evangelizing and proselytizing angle of christianity. I have to admit i know littel about muslims though.  whether or not they truly act the way  portrayed in the media. Christians though, I know from personal experience. Perhaps its just becuase I live in the USA which is predominalty christian but I hasve been accosted many times on a public street by those spreading the word. Im told I will go to hell and loose my soul and be banished from gods love... to me thats pretty damn aggressive. Even the Harre krishnas that used to be in the airport didnt do that, they just handed me a book and asked that I read it when I had the time. Hopefully no one in this world would tolerate outright physical aggression based on religion these days :)

 That's very cool to hear about Catholicism being more open minded. I had no idea any catholic would ever say there are other ways to get into heaven. In my mind it was the complete opposite. I'm gald I know better now. In a way the catholic church has alwasy been a bit empathetic, they have a long history of absorbing other beliefs and integrating them in the church. It seems that indigineous gods are simply turned to saints when the missions come to town.

Rocktopus wrote: I'm listening to your music from your website. Very good. It reminds me a lot of what Aphex Twin  sounded like in the late nineties. (in his his more beautiful moments, you are probably well aware of it?) Your posts (and others) here woke me up. I was only planning to use this site as a (prog)music fan. Now this has become an inspiring place far beyond that. I'm still summoning my thoughts on paganism and what it means to me. Looking at different societies, reading about utopian ideas/religions, the rise and fall of civillications through history etc..., is how I try to understand our own time and existence.  My website sorely needs an updating (Lost contact with the webdesigner, or he lost contact with everyone). On this adress you (or anyone else) can find  ca. 20 newer paintings: auction.asp?auksjonID=39">www.blomqvist.no/galleri/auction.a sp? auksjonID=39 (after clicking on the image, press '<span style="text-decoration: underline;">vis stort bilde</span>') 19-46 is of course my work. No. 19-31 starting with the Hammill quote, is meant to be seen as a suite of small paintings related. I think theres quite a few you could relate to this topic there.   Fan of Max Ernst's work. Never seen better collages than the ones he did 80 years ago, and he's paintings are great as well. I'm sure you know and love 'Europe After the Rain' and 'Dechalomania'. 'The Wicker Man' should be very easy to get. It's well known in Europe, I think. I would very much reccomend the swedish film 'Songs From the Second Floor' by Roy Andersson. Modernism going primitive, at the end. Very existential. Every scene is jawdroppingly complex, painful and beautiful.  Sorry for the late reply. I can only use the net a couple of hours now and then when I'm home.

Thank you so much rocktopus! I will most certainly investigate those titles
to the utmost of my capacity. Sadly, here in there states, our consuming
public en masse doesnt have the same appetite for 'challenging,
conceptual film noir' as in Europe. This, among a great many other
factors, is stewing together to suggest these ragged bones to up and
move to Canada (or Atlantis if I get a big enough oxygen tank!)

I will check out your new paintings quite soon. They are based on the
immaculate menace of a one Mr. Hammil, so they cant be too far from my
internal wonderland! If you need some help with your site, please contact
me!

Also, just as an aside to your general pilgrimage through the veils of self
(I am so honored to have held sway in this process!) I came across an
unbelievably mystifying page the other day. It deals with the Hermetic
rites, and the role of a time-shaded individual in what may be
(hypothetically speaking) the mysteries of human potentiality itself:

Muse on!

Ivan,
You are, as a poppy Genesis once sang 'taking it all too hard' too my
friend. I only quoted your comment because it was the last pargraph of
correspondence between you and zweck, so I felt that it summed up the
notions being spun between the two of you. It was as a mere nod to
what discussion I was referencing, not a condemnation of what you were
saying. I am in no way implying that any conflict in any thread I've posted
stems from you, thats impossible! Obviously, we agree on a great many
other things outside of the 'fabled civil war' thread.
I simply found it ironic and a bit off-putting that upon taking a day off
from these heated debacles they somehow resurrected themself here in
the form of sour sentiments and percentages on an unrelated thread that
I in part started to attempt to bring balance back to the force Tis not
a stain on your collar. I just want to bury this hatchet forever, as was
obvioulsy my intention in messaging you at all, verdad? (took three
years of spanish, maybe I'll start testing it out on some of my
international brothers on here!) Too bad I can't get the upside down ? on
this keyboard    
Anyways, its over, that was my gist. Lets just get back to the meadow
already!!!

Edited by dojonane

Two albums came to my mind. Steve Hackett, Voyage of the Acolyte, which plays on themes of the Tarot. This theme was supposed to be the first album by The Enid but Tony Smith could not sell it to the label and Hackett needed a theme. Also Jethro Tull Songs from the Wood, which plays on several pagan themes, the Jack in the Green, Solstice Bells, and and the Celtic Beltane festival or May Day, in the remaster. Heavy Horses, Songs from the Wood II, also has a very rustic, earthy character. Though not overtly pagan, it still plays on the pagan context of the earlier album. I have not heard Roots to Branches, but it sound pretty pagan to me. Also moonchild from The Court is a very pagan idea.

 

PS in its most general term pagan pertains to Indian religions. Those that centered around Mother Kali would be especailly apropos here.The quest narratives of The Moody Blues and Yes could be seen as pagan in that regard.

Edited by ken4musiq

dojonane wrote:   Genesis were already rife with pantheistic, anthropomorphic narrative from the Trespass days. 'White Mountain' (never heard many people mention this wonderful piece) describes a monarchic system of divine birth rite and forbidden observance amongst WOLVES! Astounding, charming...mmmm so deliciously imaginative

Now to a more pleasent theme, is obvious you're not here for a long time because White Mountain is always mentioned by members of this site, IMO is the most wonderful track from the already good Trespass.

I believe Peter said on one interview that he was inspired in Jack London's work, but I can't find a real connection. Others say that is a recreation of the myth of King Arthur, the golden crown was hidden as the magic sword never to be used again.

But I see it as an allegory of the decadence of Monarchy by divine right, to be replaced by power earned by own hand. One-Eye fights the usurper and wins, but instead of claiming the kingdom the hero hides the crown (never to leave the mountain) and returns as  One-Eye the hero (with laurels on his head) who resigns the crown to which he isn't entitled to dwell or live in peace with his tribe as a leader that won his right by stregth.

Interesting, but only God knows what they tried to say.

Iván

 

[/QUOTE]
Yes, that's always been my favorite Tull album lyrically speaking! It
features the only reference to my (flirtingly half seriously) patron deity,
Kernunnos, The Green Man in 'Jack in the Green.' Someone stated earlier
they felt paganism as an overt context for prog wasnt necesarily present
at the very beginning, but your point about crimson brings my mind back
to what was considered the first truly symphonic progressive album, in
'court' with references to witches and weird magicks abound!
Another beautiful, often little known reference to elemental entities
comes in 'Firth of Fifth' with 'undinal songs.' This being the adjective form
of Undines, the water elementals in German Mythology (see: Ondine on
wikipedia, the linky thing is all botched here for some reason).
For that matter, Genesis were already rife with pantheistic,
anthropomorphic narrative from the Trespass days. 'White
Mountain' (never heard many people mention this wonderful piece)
describes a monarchic system of divine birth rite and forbidden
observance amongst WOLVES! Astounding, charming...mmmm so
deliciously imaginative [/QUOTE]

 

Another Tull song is Cold Wind to Valhalla, which is overtly sexual and probably inspired by Zep's Immigrant Song. I was going to go down the Gabriel line but did not know where to start. Firth of Fifth is good place since its overt romanticism speaks with pagan tongue, though its central message is Christian; it also references Neptune. It is one of the earliest prog pieces to use an overt musical metaphor in the waterfall word painting of the piano solo. Ironically, Hunting Girl from Songs from the Wood is another with the gallop of the double bass drums.   I am one of those who really see Christianity as a pagan religion; I think someone mentioned that earlier; Gabriel often picks up on that.  In Supper's Ready, the pied piper takes his children into the earth to await the coming of the Lord.

ivan_2068 wrote: Interesting, but only God knows what they tried to say. Iván

Or Gods, depending on your angle

Try this one which by the way just noticed I hadn't reviewed:

http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_CD. asp?cd_id=10226

All Miranda Sex Garden and specially this album "Carnival of Souls" is full of Celtic Pagan images, and as Witchwood Hermit well mentioned of lust and excess.

Iván